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NC State Game & Other Dribbles ...

DT_PITT

All P I T T !
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Jul 17, 2001
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** Good Evening my fellow Pitt fans.

** I took some time getting to this task tonight. I've dreaded it in fact. I'm wondering why I'm even writing this.

** I suspect I however, that I'm meeting a pledge I made long ago to stick in good times and in bad.

** Unfortunately, much like our last loss to Georgia Tech, no attempts at being clever will make this any more tolerable.

** We are now what our record says we are. Once again we are a below average ACC team.

** We are now what our losing streak says we are. A team that falters poorly down the stretch.

** I hate to view everything as evidence, or lack thereof, that Coach Capel can turn this program around. So instead, I will state the obvious. In three years, it's clear we aren't close to the level of talent needed to compete at the top half of the ACC.

** But that's not what really bothers me. What really bothers me is that all of the most accurate descriptions of our performance fall under a category that can be described only as "poorly coached." This includes unfocused, undisciplined, unorganized and perhaps even unmotivated.

** I hark back all the way to Ben Howland's first year when we often witnessed some excellent basketball played by guys who lacked enough firepower.

** Maybe more troubling is the basic concept that for whatever reason, all of Capel's teams at Pitt have seemed to deteriorate.

** I wish I could offer something more hopeful. And the possibility of a strong finish, something like 3-1 certainly still exists. But it's hard to believe that will actually happen, and something like 1-3 seems a better bet.

** Regardless, I know I will watch them all. And as hard as is it to do ... I'll throw my comments after the game into the fray for whatever, or how little, that may be worth.
 
** Good Evening my fellow Pitt fans.

** I took some time getting to this task tonight. I've dreaded it in fact. I'm wondering why I'm even writing this.

** I suspect I however, that I'm meeting a pledge I made long ago to stick in good times and in bad.

** Unfortunately, much like our last loss to Georgia Tech, no attempts at being clever will make this any more tolerable.

** We are now what our record says we are. Once again we are a below average ACC team.

** We are now what our losing streak says we are. A team that falters poorly down the stretch.

** I hate to view everything as evidence, or lack thereof, that Coach Capel can turn this program around. So instead, I will state the obvious. In three years, it's clear we aren't close to the level of talent needed to compete at the top half of the ACC.

** But that's not what really bothers me. What really bothers me is that all of the most accurate descriptions of our performance fall under a category that can be described only as "poorly coached." This includes unfocused, undisciplined, unorganized and perhaps even unmotivated.

** I hark back all the way to Ben Howland's first year when we often witnessed some excellent basketball played by guys who lacked enough firepower.

** Maybe more troubling is the basic concept that for whatever reason, all of Capel's teams at Pitt have seemed to deteriorate.

** I wish I could offer something more hopeful. And the possibility of a strong finish, something like 3-1 certainly still exists. But it's hard to believe that will actually happen, and something like 1-3 seems a better bet.

** Regardless, I know I will watch them all. And as hard as is it to do ... I'll throw my comments after the game into the fray for whatever, or how little, that may be worth.
Will the last one out please turn off the lights?
 
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** Good Evening my fellow Pitt fans.

** I took some time getting to this task tonight. I've dreaded it in fact. I'm wondering why I'm even writing this.

** I suspect I however, that I'm meeting a pledge I made long ago to stick in good times and in bad.

** Unfortunately, much like our last loss to Georgia Tech, no attempts at being clever will make this any more tolerable.
Howland was 29-6 in his third year. 29-6. Ouch.
** We are now what our record says we are. Once again we are a below average ACC team.

** We are now what our losing streak says we are. A team that falters poorly down the stretch.

** I hate to view everything as evidence, or lack thereof, that Coach Capel can turn this program around. So instead, I will state the obvious. In three years, it's clear we aren't close to the level of talent needed to compete at the top half of the ACC.

** But that's not what really bothers me. What really bothers me is that all of the most accurate descriptions of our performance fall under a category that can be described only as "poorly coached." This includes unfocused, undisciplined, unorganized and perhaps even unmotivated.

** I hark back all the way to Ben Howland's first year when we often witnessed some excellent basketball played by guys who lacked enough firepower.

** Maybe more troubling is the basic concept that for whatever reason, all of Capel's teams at Pitt have seemed to deteriorate.

** I wish I could offer something more hopeful. And the possibility of a strong finish, something like 3-1 certainly still exists. But it's hard to believe that will actually happen, and something like 1-3 seems a better bet.

** Regardless, I know I will watch them all. And as hard as is it to do ... I'll throw my comments after the game into the fray for whatever, or how little, that may be worth.
 
That will probably be me. :(
Misplaced loyalty is always painful. I still want the team to win, just can't see Jeff getting the job done. But maybe a total collapse forces Pitt to act.
 
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Ouch indeed. But I would have been satisfied enough ending this regular season 13-8. Now we are staring at 10-11.
 
Misplaced loyalty is always painful. I still want the team to win, just can't see Jeff getting the job done. But maybe a total collapse forces Pitt to act.

We will see year 4 for sure.
 
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I am as disappointed as anyone but people are getting a little dramatic here.

With a normal 20 game conference schedule, we likely get to 8 or 9 wins.

That’s linear progress - 3, 6, 8.

What really bothers me is the 0 commits. But I’m not going to make any judgements about the future until I see who we add.

Because frankly, these games in the middle of a pandemic have little bearing on the future of the program at this point.

Who we add in a few months (and who we lose) likely will determine whether we are in the S16 next year or whether Capel is fired after next year or the year after.

X/Toney/Champ/Horton/Reid/Femi , plus another impact transfer or reclass is a tourney team that can do some damage.

And Champ to NBA, Toney transfer with plan Bs added means another ACC basement finish.

Our biggest problem right now is we still just don’t have the talent necessary. I’m going to hold out and see what talent is added before the huge Year 4 before I jump off the wagon.
 
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And, I expected way more to happen way faster.

But as someone who watched the 0-18 season (and attended many of them), you cannot compare losing games like this one or the GT loss to that year. We were like a JV team. It was miserable.

Right now, we’re just a little bit away. We belong in every ACC game. We just don’t have the horses to make up for our lulls, so we have to play really really well to win.

But we’re 1 to 2 pieces from the top half of the ACC. That is so much more encouraging from where we’ve been lately.

Each game like today, I become less sure that we’ll get there with Capel. But to act like you can’t watch anymore of this and it’s a total failure is just silly to me.
 
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And, I expected way more to happen way faster.

But as someone who watched the 0-18 season (and attended many of them), you cannot compare losing games like this one or the GT loss to that year. We were like a JV team. It was miserable.

Right now, we’re just a little bit away. We belong in every ACC game. We just don’t have the horses to make up for our lulls, so we have to play really really well to win.

But we’re 1 to 2 pieces from the top half of the ACC. That is so much more encouraging from where we’ve been lately.

Each game like today, I become less sure that we’ll get there with Capel. But to act like you can’t watch anymore of this and it’s a total failure is just silly to me.

This is absolutely nothing like the 0-18 season. But what looks what could be the 5 straight losing season is talking a cumulative toll.
 
Why watch?

Because this is basketball. It’s a game. I love my university and I love Pitt athletics. Sure, they drive me crazy and often make me unhappy. But you know what makes me less happy? Work. This pandemic. Not being able to go to a concert. Not being able to date.

So, yeah, I’ll keep watching. It’s recreation that we take too seriously, but it’s still recreation.

My dad always says “A bad day at work is better than a good day incarcerated.” A similar sentiment could apply to Pitt basketball.

Hail to Pitt.
 
For me it’s the way we are losing. The stupid technicals, the lack of D, and the fact that we have the talent and ability to win these kinds of games. NC state had no business winning this game today but we didn’t show up in the first half yet again.
I don’t know whether it’s coaching the makeup the team or a combination of both.

I don’t mind going down swinging to more talented teams but this is not that.
 
This is absolutely nothing like the 0-18 season. But what looks what could be the 5 straight losing season is talking a cumulative toll.

I mean, would we feel better about ourselves if we were say 19-14 (8-12)?

The chicken little stuff is just silly to me. All along, people said they expected NIT this year/NCAA bubble team with NCAAT as a must for next year.

Well, that’s what we are. We’ve played exactly like an NIT team. Our best player is playing on 1 and a half legs and our best post player stole a car.

There are concerning things. I’m not saying all is well. I was sick after the loss with the way things unfolded.

But to sit through the last 5 years of Pitt hoops and then suddenly decide now is the time to be done is ... mind-blowing to me. Next year is the year that is now or never. Why not wait and see what happens then?
 
I am as disappointed as anyone but people are getting a little dramatic here.

With a normal 20 game conference schedule, we likely get to 8 or 9 wins.

That’s linear progress - 3, 6, 8.

What really bothers me is the 0 commits. But I’m not going to make any judgements about the future until I see who we add.

Because frankly, these games in the middle of a pandemic have little bearing on the future of the program at this point.

Who we add in a few months (and who we lose) likely will determine whether we are in the S16 next year or whether Capel is fired after next year or the year after.

X/Toney/Champ/Horton/Reid/Femi , plus another impact transfer or reclass is a tourney team that can do some damage.

And Champ to NBA, Toney transfer with plan Bs added means another ACC basement finish.

Our biggest problem right now is we still just don’t have the talent necessary. I’m going to hold out and see what talent is added before the huge Year 4 before I jump off the wagon.
Your inclusion of Reid is worth a chuckle or two. Odds on that? I hope it happens.
 
Why watch?

Because this is basketball. It’s a game. I love my university and I love Pitt athletics. Sure, they drive me crazy and often make me unhappy. But you know what makes me less happy? Work. This pandemic. Not being able to go to a concert. Not being able to date.

So, yeah, I’ll keep watching. It’s recreation that we take too seriously, but it’s still recreation.

My dad always says “A bad day at work is better than a good day incarcerated.” A similar sentiment could apply to Pitt basketball.

Hail to Pitt.
A bad day at work is like every Pitt game lately. At least it makes money for me.
 
I am as disappointed as anyone but people are getting a little dramatic here.

With a normal 20 game conference schedule, we likely get to 8 or 9 wins.

That’s linear progress - 3, 6, 8.

What really bothers me is the 0 commits. But I’m not going to make any judgements about the future until I see who we add.

Because frankly, these games in the middle of a pandemic have little bearing on the future of the program at this point.

Who we add in a few months (and who we lose) likely will determine whether we are in the S16 next year or whether Capel is fired after next year or the year after.

X/Toney/Champ/Horton/Reid/Femi , plus another impact transfer or reclass is a tourney team that can do some damage.

And Champ to NBA, Toney transfer with plan Bs added means another ACC basement finish.

Our biggest problem right now is we still just don’t have the talent necessary. I’m going to hold out and see what talent is added before the huge Year 4 before I jump off the wagon.

I think these are all fair and reasonable comments.

I might only quibble a bit with your linear progress numbers. With a 20 game schedule, (should we finish 6-10), that's more like 7 ACC wins.

It's also wise to assess our talent we open the the next season.

But I'll confess I'm getting less and less optimistic with every loss.
 
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I mean, would we feel better about ourselves if we were say 19-14 (8-12)?

The chicken little stuff is just silly to me. All along, people said they expected NIT this year/NCAA bubble team with NCAAT as a must for next year.

Well, that’s what we are. We’ve played exactly like an NIT team. Our best player is playing on 1 and a half legs and our best post player stole a car.

There are concerning things. I’m not saying all is well. I was sick after the loss with the way things unfolded.

But to sit through the last 5 years of Pitt hoops and then suddenly decide now is the time to be done is ... mind-blowing to me. Next year is the year that is now or never. Why not wait and see what happens then?

All very reasonable perspective -- thanks for including.
 
The only other thing I’d add.. which I know many of you will roll your eyes about... is that this year and all the protocols, cancellations, rules, etc., is extremely hard on players.

Capel has talked about it a lot but until you experience it with kids at that age and go through that process it’s truly hard to understand. Things just feel pretty “normal” to us as we sit on our couches and watch the game and discuss it on the board.

It doesn’t necessarily excuse losses or anything I’m just saying to keep it in mind when making our judgements.
 
** Good Evening my fellow Pitt fans.

** I took some time getting to this task tonight. I've dreaded it in fact. I'm wondering why I'm even writing this.

** I suspect I however, that I'm meeting a pledge I made long ago to stick in good times and in bad.

** Unfortunately, much like our last loss to Georgia Tech, no attempts at being clever will make this any more tolerable.

** We are now what our record says we are. Once again we are a below average ACC team.

** We are now what our losing streak says we are. A team that falters poorly down the stretch.

** I hate to view everything as evidence, or lack thereof, that Coach Capel can turn this program around. So instead, I will state the obvious. In three years, it's clear we aren't close to the level of talent needed to compete at the top half of the ACC.

** But that's not what really bothers me. What really bothers me is that all of the most accurate descriptions of our performance fall under a category that can be described only as "poorly coached." This includes unfocused, undisciplined, unorganized and perhaps even unmotivated.

** I hark back all the way to Ben Howland's first year when we often witnessed some excellent basketball played by guys who lacked enough firepower.

** Maybe more troubling is the basic concept that for whatever reason, all of Capel's teams at Pitt have seemed to deteriorate.

** I wish I could offer something more hopeful. And the possibility of a strong finish, something like 3-1 certainly still exists. But it's hard to believe that will actually happen, and something like 1-3 seems a better bet.

** Regardless, I know I will watch them all. And as hard as is it to do ... I'll throw my comments after the game into the fray for whatever, or how little, that may be worth.

Looks to me like Coach Capel needs to bring in an assistant who is a really good recruiter and another assistant who is a really good "x and o" coach to help in game planning and help with in game adjustments ...... and he needs to do whatever is necessary to instill discipline and teamwork into the players ......

We won games when we played good defense and rebounded well ...... this needs to be a constant for the team every game no matter what we do on offense.

All these technical fouls need to stop ...... they show we are out of control and they were a significant factor in the loss today.
 
I am as disappointed as anyone but people are getting a little dramatic here.

With a normal 20 game conference schedule, we likely get to 8 or 9 wins.

That’s linear progress - 3, 6, 8.

What really bothers me is the 0 commits. But I’m not going to make any judgements about the future until I see who we add.

Because frankly, these games in the middle of a pandemic have little bearing on the future of the program at this point.

Who we add in a few months (and who we lose) likely will determine whether we are in the S16 next year or whether Capel is fired after next year or the year after.

X/Toney/Champ/Horton/Reid/Femi , plus another impact transfer or reclass is a tourney team that can do some damage.

And Champ to NBA, Toney transfer with plan Bs added means another ACC basement finish.

Our biggest problem right now is we still just don’t have the talent necessary. I’m going to hold out and see what talent is added before the huge Year 4 before I jump off the wagon.
If the Hugley situation never happened perhaps no one is talking like we are.

That and the Toney hissy fit (if it happened) could explain “this” collapse.
 
** Good Evening my fellow Pitt fans.

** I took some time getting to this task tonight. I've dreaded it in fact. I'm wondering why I'm even writing this.

** I suspect I however, that I'm meeting a pledge I made long ago to stick in good times and in bad.

** Unfortunately, much like our last loss to Georgia Tech, no attempts at being clever will make this any more tolerable.

** We are now what our record says we are. Once again we are a below average ACC team.

** We are now what our losing streak says we are. A team that falters poorly down the stretch.

** I hate to view everything as evidence, or lack thereof, that Coach Capel can turn this program around. So instead, I will state the obvious. In three years, it's clear we aren't close to the level of talent needed to compete at the top half of the ACC.

** But that's not what really bothers me. What really bothers me is that all of the most accurate descriptions of our performance fall under a category that can be described only as "poorly coached." This includes unfocused, undisciplined, unorganized and perhaps even unmotivated.

** I hark back all the way to Ben Howland's first year when we often witnessed some excellent basketball played by guys who lacked enough firepower.

** Maybe more troubling is the basic concept that for whatever reason, all of Capel's teams at Pitt have seemed to deteriorate.

** I wish I could offer something more hopeful. And the possibility of a strong finish, something like 3-1 certainly still exists. But it's hard to believe that will actually happen, and something like 1-3 seems a better bet.

** Regardless, I know I will watch them all. And as hard as is it to do ... I'll throw my comments after the game into the fray for whatever, or how little, that may be worth.
Hard to disagree with any of this. But if our two 1-point losses went the other way, we'd all be fairly content with the season right now.
 
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I am as disappointed as anyone but people are getting a little dramatic here.

With a normal 20 game conference schedule, we likely get to 8 or 9 wins.

That’s linear progress - 3, 6, 8.

What really bothers me is the 0 commits. But I’m not going to make any judgements about the future until I see who we add.

Because frankly, these games in the middle of a pandemic have little bearing on the future of the program at this point.

Who we add in a few months (and who we lose) likely will determine whether we are in the S16 next year or whether Capel is fired after next year or the year after.

X/Toney/Champ/Horton/Reid/Femi , plus another impact transfer or reclass is a tourney team that can do some damage.

And Champ to NBA, Toney transfer with plan Bs added means another ACC basement finish.

Our biggest problem right now is we still just don’t have the talent necessary. I’m going to hold out and see what talent is added before the huge Year 4 before I jump off the wagon.
No our biggest problem is the coaching is not good.
 
No our biggest problem is the coaching is not good.
Poor coaching is always hard to overcome.

Pickett helps Narduzzi. Johnson hurts Capel.

Another thing diminishing Narduzzi’s poor coaching: He gets a bit of a pass as he seems one of us. Capel: Not so much.
 
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DT....I‘d like to go undefeated, unscored upon and more...but the reality of the situation, in my opinion, requires patience, time, patience, and did I mean patience.

Talking to a coach said it now takes 2-3 or 4 years to build relationships at the high school level and with recruits...yes, AAU ball Is similar....so while some think Capel isn’t recruiting well, I think he’s building a recruiting program that truly takes time.

I talked with a PITT grad/friend, who made an excellent observation...our team lacks maturity as a whole and I believe, as a result, we sometimes implode. Part of this might be on Capel, but it’s on the players to play within themselves and play as truly teammates who want the best for each other.

We are not winless in the ACC, there are good players on this team, and we have a coach who is rebuilding a program from scratch.

I would think having a fully packed Oakland ZOO would be a huge plus, and give us the oomph to win close games.

As a PITT fan/alum, I believe in what Capel is building...even with a rugged year, where each week games are cancelled, added, changed, or more, he remains the one asset we need to keep us moving on to greater glory.


Hail to PITT!
-al-
 
Poor coaching is always hard to overcome.

Pickett helps Narduzzi. Johnson hurts Capel.

Another thing diminishing Narduzzi’s poor coaching: He gets a bit of a pass as he seems one of us. Capel: Not so much.
You added stuff so I took my like back. I don't give Narduzzi any kind of pass. He is not the answer here either and he needs to go. And Pickett helps Narduzzi? What go 6-6? I'm not understanding.
 
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The only other thing I’d add.. which I know many of you will roll your eyes about... is that this year and all the protocols, cancellations, rules, etc., is extremely hard on players.

Capel has talked about it a lot but until you experience it with kids at that age and go through that process it’s truly hard to understand. Things just feel pretty “normal” to us as we sit on our couches and watch the game and discuss it on the board.

It doesn’t necessarily excuse losses or anything I’m just saying to keep it in mind when making our judgements.
Every team has been in the same situation.
 
Poor coaching is always hard to overcome.

Pickett helps Narduzzi. Johnson hurts Capel.

Another thing diminishing Narduzzi’s poor coaching: He gets a bit of a pass as he seems one of us. Capel: Not so much.
I don’t agree at all the Narduzzi is getting a pass on the Pantherlair.
 
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The only other thing I’d add.. which I know many of you will roll your eyes about... is that this year and all the protocols, cancellations, rules, etc., is extremely hard on players.

Capel has talked about it a lot but until you experience it with kids at that age and go through that process it’s truly hard to understand. Things just feel pretty “normal” to us as we sit on our couches and watch the game and discuss it on the board.

It doesn’t necessarily excuse losses or anything I’m just saying to keep it in mind when making our judgements.
This should be even more concerning. This pandemic has exposed more coaches who are unorganized, lazy and frankly let the players just play than anything I’ve ever seen. People who are quick thinkers and can adapt on the fly have reigned supreme. Cal, K and Bill Self to a lesser degree have been exposed as people who need all that extra time to get kids ready with crap games that mold their team and figure out how to control them.

The guys I consider the best coaches, the Beard’s, Fews, Drew’s, Bennett types have been dealing with the same mental health, the same cancellations and the same pandemic as our program. Where’s the disconnect? Why are we getting exposed so thoroughly at the end of the year here? The players literally said they don’t give enough effort on defense. Whose fault is all of this?

I know you guys hate my NFL analogies, but can you imagine the talk shows here if Tomlin ever used covid as an excuse this year? They would’ve obliterated him! He got killed after the year and they won75 percent of their games.

Using Covid like it’s in a vacuum in Pittsburgh if we hear it should be a fireable offense.
 
DT....I‘d like to go undefeated, unscored upon and more...but the reality of the situation, in my opinion, requires patience, time, patience, and did I mean patience.

Talking to a coach said it now takes 2-3 or 4 years to build relationships at the high school level and with recruits...yes, AAU ball Is similar....so while some think Capel isn’t recruiting well, I think he’s building a recruiting program that truly takes time.

I talked with a PITT grad/friend, who made an excellent observation...our team lacks maturity as a whole and I believe, as a result, we sometimes implode. Part of this might be on Capel, but it’s on the players to play within themselves and play as truly teammates who want the best for each other.

We are not winless in the ACC, there are good players on this team, and we have a coach who is rebuilding a program from scratch.

I would think having a fully packed Oakland ZOO would be a huge plus, and give us the oomph to win close games.

As a PITT fan/alum, I believe in what Capel is building...even with a rugged year, where each week games are cancelled, added, changed, or more, he remains the one asset we need to keep us moving on to greater glory.


Hail to PITT!
-al-

Thank you for this contribution and perspective.
 
This should be even more concerning. This pandemic has exposed more coaches who are unorganized, lazy and frankly let the players just play than anything I’ve ever seen. People who are quick thinkers and can adapt on the fly have reigned supreme. Cal, K and Bill Self to a lesser degree have been exposed as people who need all that extra time to get kids ready with crap games that mold their team and figure out how to control them.

The guys I consider the best coaches, the Beard’s, Fews, Drew’s, Bennett types have been dealing with the same mental health, the same cancellations and the same pandemic as our program. Where’s the disconnect? Why are we getting exposed so thoroughly at the end of the year here? The players literally said they don’t give enough effort on defense. Whose fault is all of this?

I know you guys hate my NFL analogies, but can you imagine the talk shows here if Tomlin ever used covid as an excuse this year? They would’ve obliterated him! He got killed after the year and they won75 percent of their games.

Using Covid like it’s in a vacuum in Pittsburgh if we hear it should be a fireable offense.

It makes my head spin when I see people bringing up COVID. It’s as if some people think it’s only impacting certain people or teams. Everyone’s dealing with it so it’s not an excuse of any kind. Only exception may be if a team was without a key player or 2 due to illness. Other than that it’s a bunch of nonsense.
 
We just don’t have the horses to make up for our lulls...

I think I saw one of those "lulls" yesterday. Boy dribbled around Champanie. Champanie just stopped and watched the boy drive to the hoop and score. Just stood there. Watched.

I'm at a loss. Has Howland/Dixon been gone so long that no one remembers how Pitt played?? How long would a Champanie be on the court (or on the team for that matter) if Howland/Dixon were coach and that "lull" happened? Answer: Not Long.
 
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