? on discipline

[BobMech]

Background:
I'm a lifelong Panther fan and off and on season ticket holder for years. My father used to take me to games at Pitt stadium starting in '75 with the re-building of the program. Loved Pitt ever since. I live about 3 1/2 from the stadium, otherwise I would have had season tickets all my life. I will be at all the games this fall. My only child, a daughter was accepted Pitt for the fall and will be in the marching band. Soo very psyched to see all the action again and watch her perform as part of the band. I have not posted here in many years but am a frequent reader. Hoping to get back to being part of the discussions.

My question for discussion is: I understand the confidential nature of discipline, but why not, beginning this season, announce to all the student athletes that any violation of team rules and policies will be made public? Would it not hold the players more accountable for their actions if they know in advance that any rule violations will be out their for everyone to know? I know both sides of the issue, but struggle with it, so I thought I would ask others opinions.

H2P

 

[21Guns.]

They do it because it has zero impact on the public lives but can have a long impact on the players lives. What difference in your life does it make if you know the kids missing the game due to drugs or being late to meetings? In the end it the same result for you. However having certain things out there publically like failed drug test could hurt them with future employment ect. For example if you were an education major would you want schools to know you failed a drug test?

 

[MajorMajors]

Would be used as a negative against Pitt in recruiting...

Go Pitt.

PS: Glad to hear the OP will be back attending games -- and having your daughter in the band is cool...

 

[Adrift]

I believe the OP was suggesting that letting the athletes know in advance that transgressions would be made public would act as a deterrent. I believe it would help a bit, but I don't agree with this proposal at all.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Isnt the more important question :
Why is this happening at PITT football more frequently than at other program?
What should be done to correct this suspension issue?
Who cares what they did!

We have two dismissals of key players Taleni and Blair leaving big holes ( literally) in the D.
Three game suspensions to others which will make beating the Nitters and OSU almost impossible.
Player discipline under Narduzzi isn't any better than under Wanny and we all know what happened to him!

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Isnt the more important question :
Why is this happening at PITT football more frequently than at other program?
What should be done to correct this suspension issue?
Who cares what they did!

We have two dismissals of key players Taleni and Blair leaving big holes ( literally) in the D.
Three game suspensions to others which will make beating the Nitters and OSU almost impossible.
Player discipline under Narduzzi isn't any better than under Wanny and we all know what happened to him!

Dammit, why is this so hard (that's what she said).

Our players are no more or less thuggish or retarded than anywhere else. They probably are less so, frankly (if one equates recruiting stars with guys with life-long feelings of entitlement due to getting away with everything as youths because of athletic talent ... which is definitely reality). Our 1-3 star guys likely got away with far less shit than the 4 and 5 stars at other programs. So our guys wouldn't be walking in to college with as much God-like feelings of impervious to rules and laws as they would at PSU (or other football factories).

The perception that we have more "discipline problems" is a combination of nerdy administrators too squeamish or moralistic or anti-Jock to allow it to be overlooked; hostile media ready to pounce on any transgressions; and local authorities that aren't complicit like they are on college football towns. That's it. That's the list.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Dammit, why is this so hard (that's what she said).

Our players are no more or less thuggish or retarded than anywhere else. They probably are less so, frankly (if one equates recruiting stars with guys with life-long feelings of entitlement due to getting away with everything as youths because of athletic talent ... which is definitely reality). Our 1-3 star guys likely got away with far less shit than the 4 and 5 stars at other programs. So our guys wouldn't be walking in to college with as much God-like feelings of impervious to rules and laws as they would at PSU (or other football factories).

The perception that we have more "discipline problems" is a combination of nerdy administrators too squeamish or moralistic or anti-Jock to allow it to be overlooked; hostile media ready to pounce on any transgressions; and local authorities that aren't complicit like they are on college football towns. That's it. That's the list.

Unfortunately the administrators that you refer to have made what u refer to as a perception a reality for most PITT fans.
That's part of my point maybe PITT hasn't been or isn't a U ready for a P5 football program.
Again unfortunately I believe Narduzzi will get that one and be off on another adventure in college football!

 

[Pittx9]

Isnt the more important question :
Why is this happening at PITT football more frequently than at other program?
What should be done to correct this suspension issue?
Who cares what they did!

We have two dismissals of key players Taleni and Blair leaving big holes ( literally) in the D.
Three game suspensions to others which will make beating the Nitters and OSU almost impossible.
Player discipline under Narduzzi isn't any better than under Wanny and we all know what happened to him!

Pitt has stricter policies in place and actually value holding kids accountable. Not saying they should do it this way or that way, but most schools would not consider making it any harder to keep kids on the field than the NCAA requires you to. Either way, whether pitt is too strict or not, these kids need to not put themselves in these situations.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I am not convinced that Pitt is acting any more stringently or aggressively than its P5 peers. I know that is the perception here on this board. But, I have only seen anecdotal evidence usually citing only perennial top 5-10 teams. Perhaps we are too myopic and doing too much navel gazing to see reality.

 

[cruzer]

I doubt that the threat of public exposure would have much impact on these kids. This would only work if they actually thought through the future ramifications of their actions, which they clearly don't or they would not be in trouble in the first place.

Cruzer

 

[Saboteur]

Because once it is known, the court of public opinion will administer a punishment much more harsh than is warranted.
Is anyone on here going to portray the foolish actions of their children, spouse selves? I sure as hell am not.
Crimes are violations of the rules of society and require the public to realize what has happened to maintain order.
That's not true with universities.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Pitt drug tests more frequently than is required by the NCAA.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

I am not convinced that Pitt is acting any more stringently or aggressively than its P5 peers. I know that is the perception here on this board. But, I have only seen anecdotal evidence usually citing only perennial top 5-10 teams. Perhaps we are too myopic and doing too much navel gazing to see reality.

So you think the level of PITT football player suspensions is on par with other P5 lets say Top 20 teams? How many have two dismissals and 3 players missing the first three games of the season at this point in the season.
I havent plotted it out but I watch college football news everyday and since lets say the Wanny era to now I bet if someone did plot suspensions out and compared the data with the Top 20 teams we'd be Top 3 or 5 in the nation. Maybe the National Champ in this category! It seems like we lose players each season. We live in Nitter country and I can say other than the bowl game problem they had we never see a Nitter player suspended.
The bowl game suspensions if I have this right were at the bowl location and beyond the control of the Nitter administration and law enforcement!

 

[GT74]

I don't really think behavioral misconduct happens at Pitt more than other programs. We just hear about ours because we are reading about Pitt constantly and paying attention to the program. I'll bet if you charted misconduct on the P5 teams over time, you would get similar results for all of them. Penn St suspended a player before their Rose Bowl game last year. That is an example of one that was publicized and we heard about it. A potential AA at Alabama just got a DUI. You find examples everywhere.

 

[21Guns.]

Pitt drug tests more frequently than is required by the NCAA.

So do most schools. That not unique to Pitt. The NCAA has no requirements for internal testing. The NCAA does their own testing. Part of the reason schools test on their own is because the NCAA penalties are harsh. A failed NCAA drug test is a one year suspension. Therefore school prefer to test internal and catch them before the NCAA does.

 

[joeydavid]

If they were legal issues you would know about it. Disclosing internal violations really is over-kill. That's like saying the reason you were fired from your job should be posted for the world to see.

Background:
I'm a lifelong Panther fan and off and on season ticket holder for years. My father used to take me to games at Pitt stadium starting in '75 with the re-building of the program. Loved Pitt ever since. I live about 3 1/2 from the stadium, otherwise I would have had season tickets all my life. I will be at all the games this fall. My only child, a daughter was accepted Pitt for the fall and will be in the marching band. Soo very psyched to see all the action again and watch her perform as part of the band. I have not posted here in many years but am a frequent reader. Hoping to get back to being part of the discussions.

My question for discussion is: I understand the confidential nature of discipline, but why not, beginning this season, announce to all the student athletes that any violation of team rules and policies will be made public? Would it not hold the players more accountable for their actions if they know in advance that any rule violations will be out their for everyone to know? I know both sides of the issue, but struggle with it, so I thought I would ask others opinions.

H2P

 

[DiehardPanther]

So do most schools. That not unique to Pitt. The NCAA has no requirements for internal testing. The NCAA does their own testing. Part of the reason schools test on their own is because the NCAA penalties are harsh. A failed NCAA drug test is a one year suspension. Therefore school prefer to test internal and catch them before the NCAA does.

A lot of schools give the players a heads up of when the testing is about occur.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

I am not convinced that Pitt is acting any more stringently or aggressively than its P5 peers. I know that is the perception here on this board. But, I have only seen anecdotal evidence usually citing only perennial top 5-10 teams. Perhaps we are too myopic and doing too much navel gazing to see reality.

Maybe that's because the ideal is to be one of those perennial top 5-10 teams? I'd even settle for "occasional".

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

So you think the level of PITT football player suspensions is on par with other P5 lets say Top 20 teams? How many have two dismissals and 3 players missing the first three games of the season at this point in the season.
I havent plotted it out but I watch college football news everyday and since lets say the Wanny era to now I bet if someone did plot suspensions out and compared the data with the Top 20 teams we'd be Top 3 or 5 in the nation. Maybe the National Champ in this category! It seems like we lose players each season. We live in Nitter country and I can say other than the bowl game problem they had we never see a Nitter player suspended.
The bowl game suspensions if I have this right were at the bowl location and beyond the control of the Nitter administration and law enforcement!

Well, this appears to be an anomoulus year for Pitt so I wouldn't want to use it to jump from the individual to the specific based on it. The best data would be all P5 schools average annual suspensions and dismissals over a 5-10 year period. If Pitt is at or near the top of that list then we might conclude Pitt is either more stringent than most or has recruited more problem athletes than others.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

A lot of schools give the players a heads up of when the testing is about occur.

Do you mean when NCAA testing is scheduled or when Pitt's own testing is scheduled? Obviously the farther in advance a user is notified the better chance he has to mask or fool the test.

In my own limited business experience the protocol is you must be tested within 2 hours of being notified. If you don't comply and don't have a strong legit reason for not complying within 2 hours you are assumed to have failed the test and will then be frequently randomly retested on the same short notice.

It is hard to imagine a properly run testing program would provide a significant advance warning for a random test since that defeats the whole purpose of having a random testing program.

I suppose some schools may be cheating by improperly providing significant advance notice. If so it would likely be a potential NCAA violation for the school if caught.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

If so it would likely be a potential NCAA violation for the school if caught.

Oh the horror!

 

[Parkview57]

any violation of team rules and policies will be made public?

Sounds like one terrific idea, in fact I do not know if the band is drug tested etc., but as a concerned parent I am sure you would agree it would really hold those students accountable if they were tested and their infractions were made public. Why not write up a proposal for the band and present it to those in charge. In fact you could present it with many signatures of band parents who wish to have the transgressions of these young people made public. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[doubleAA's]

They do it because it has zero impact on the public lives but can have a long impact on the players lives. What difference in your life does it make if you know the kids missing the game due to drugs or being late to meetings? In the end it the same result for you. However having certain things out there publically like failed drug test could hurt them with future employment ect. For example if you were an education major would you want schools to know you failed a drug test?

What an incredibly and insightful response that seems so obvious to anyone with a career that I here over and over again and I scratch my head thinking "really? You think college kids should having everything out there about them?"