Just an observation-- Some (how many I do not know) but; I suspect primarily older Americans dislike the PK method of deciding soccer matches for the same (but not consciously considered) probable reason they dislike soccer in general. They have an inherent dislike for the (at least perceived) egalitarian nature of its rules. They dislike rules that attempt to make it as difficult to score as possible so that teams that are inferior in overall talent are afforded a better chance at upsetting more talented teams. Those with this mind set inherently prefer to see the more talented teams nearly always totally "crush" their less talented opponents by large margins.
OT: FGs to end football games
- Thread starter Fk_Pitt
- Start date
I’m seeing over 1 billion viewers as the reported figure.
The World Cup tourney is considered the World Cup Finals. Maybe that 4 billion number is an inflated number that includes all games.
I honestly don’t think wanting a better way to decide a championship is just looking for a reason to complain. Every sports championship we watch is decided by a game, not a skills competition. Football, basketball, baseball, hockey (is there anything more dramatic in sports than sudden death for the Stanley Cup), tennis, golf, etc. Adjusted rules to speed up the game and come up with a conclusion is great, but lame for a title game.
Are you actually suggesting this is valid analogy ?!?
I mean even the nhl doesn’t do shootouts in the playoffs
PK is like ending a nba playoff games with a free throw shooting contest
Or mlb with a home run derby
I stated above how I feel about PKs. I’m fine with a better solution. Even if it’s moving the spot back a little. Free kicks are part of the game. The difference is PK’s are just too close. I don’t know the history behind it and if percentages were different 80 years ago so that’s where they put it. But I do know that FG kickers and penalty shooters both evolved and are both too dominant and sophisticated in todays sport.
At the same time, my team lost two Cup competitions in penalty shoot outs vs Liverpool last year. One of the shootouts was 10-10 and came down to the goalkeepers shooting on each other. Liverpool’s keeper scored and Chelsea’s didn’t. So all 11 Liverpools players scored, while 10 of 11 Chelsea players scored. It was one of the most exciting things I’ve seen in sports and yeah it sucks my team lost that way, but bottom line is my team should have scored more goals in regulation. They didn’t and ultimately lost. I dealt with it just fine as a fan. It’s just sports.
Kickers today are insanely better athletes than the kickers of the 1970’s to the 2010’s, I don’t think Gary Anderson would be on a NFL roster today.
Soccer snob/purists will disagree with this, but back when they started the MLS, they had different shootouts, the way they did it, the shooter started at midfield and the GK could move any way he wanted, I think that's a truer test of skills than just shooting from the spot and more entertaining for the fans too. But of course, they'd never consider that because it's an American idea.
Personally I wish the Stanley Cup Playoffs would do the 3on3 OT and shoot out to decide games. My thinking first off, is as a fan, I don't want the game to last another 3-4 hours starting at 11pm. Secondly, they play that way all year, so the teams that were really great at 3on3 OT and shoot outs are denied using that skill to win a championship, which IMO is wrong,
Is it really ‘Americans just looking for reasons to complain’??
So you can’t have an opinion on it without it being characterized as ‘another reason to complain’ about something.
Sorry, but I think that’s a disappointing take.
But maybe you’re right, we Americans complain about NFL games all the time, take your pick….pass interference, OL holding, roughing/targeting, long video replays, etc.
But that’s not right because I think you’re original premise was that we Americans were complaining about the PKs deciding the outcome a good bit because we’re not accustomed to or familiar with the game of soccer.
There were 6 goals in the Argentina-France match, and 3 of those were on penalty kicks. So penalty kicks are just as much a part of the game as non-penalty kick goals. One could argue that penalty kicks are closer to the rest of a soccer game than field goals are to the rest of a football game.
thats an interesting and fair take. As far as penalties in regulation, it’s probably fair that the spot remains where it is. Move it back to make it more challenging, and you’ll see more aggressive defense inside the box resulting in less goals in the run of play. And before anyone makes a sly comment about it not being possible to score less goals, goals aren’t usually a problem. Just today all of these Boxing Day EPL matches had around 4 goals.
But maybe you have a 2nd penalty spot for shootouts. But here we go again thinking we know better. I’m sure all of these have been explored.
The difference being that the penalty kicks in regulation are the result of penalties, so the kicks are earned. In OT, not so much. The other thing, imo, about settling it with penalty kicks is you basically eliminate the skill of the goalie - I mean, they're just taking a guess and diving left or right.
I thought that the issue was that penalty kicks are not really part of the game and do not reflect the skills necessary. And I would argue that the skill of the striker is just as much a part of the play as the skill of the goalie. How many penalty kicks miss the goal completely - either high or wide?
Can we all agree that there are no perfect ways to determine the winner of a championship game - kicks have their problems, as does sudden death?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
There is nothing athletic about a kicker. Ever. They do one thing really well. That's it.
I'll double down on what @Fk_Pitt said. Get rid of kickers. They really do nothing to make the game better and you really only notice them when they blow a kick. Football would be way more interesting without them. Make the player that scored kick the XP or teams go for two. Get rid of kickoffs completely and spot the ball on the 25. They've become a useless play anyway. You might see the drop kick come back and there would be more 4th down plays on a short field.
And yes, a kicker hurt me once. Came back from being down three TD's just to have the kicker drive a 30-yarder up the center's ass after a perfect snap and hold. Hate them.
My gosh......yes it does. I have never seen grown men scream like sissy's when someone touches them. They flop around like fish. It's a joke
Oh by all means bash that. I won’t defend that, nor will I defend gamesmanship and ridiculous theatrics in football and basketball.
So FK, did we come to a conclusion yet? What does the soccer world think about games of this magnitued that end in a shootout? Thinking back to 94 when the US women won in a shootout, i dont recall many US soccer fans having issues with it..
again, for the record, i say play sudden death. But fifa isnt asking for my opinion.
again, for the record, i say play sudden death. But fifa isnt asking for my opinion.
Basically, you're stupid to think that those hits they take aren't painful, and I think hockey players are not tough they are F'ing STUPID for getting all their teeth knocked out instead of wearing a mask that covers their face.
oh come on, those soccer injuries are hilarious. im sure a few of them were serious but the over reaction of soccer injuries are beyond laughable..
and no, im not insulting soccer at all, just talking about 99% of the injuries and more importantly, the reaction of these alleged injuries every time.. they are a parody in themselves..
I don’t know. I think they’re all ignoring their own issues and too busy telling us our sport sucks and how to fix our own games.
. Lol. In all seriousness, I’m guessing French fans are busy blaming the ref or blaming their own team for not winning in regulation. Or they’re like we were when our team would lose in OT on the opening drive on a FG…and pissed that we didn’t score more points in regulation. I don’t think a majority are pissed at the PK shootout rule. It’s something that could be fixed, but like the NFL it would take some kind of a travesty to motivate them to change the rule.
Haven't read the entire thread, and I'm not a soccer person... but I don't see these two things as being the same at all. Field goals are part of the game in football, but shootouts aren't part of the regulation game in soccer. Games aren't being decided by a field goal contest - now that would be silly. If a team just so happens to be in field goal range, they kick a field goal.
Shootouts, to me, are just hokey ways to decide games. I think the same in the NHL, though at least they don't do it in the playoffs. It'd be like baseball deciding a game on a home run derby or something.
Shootouts, to me, are just hokey ways to decide games. I think the same in the NHL, though at least they don't do it in the playoffs. It'd be like baseball deciding a game on a home run derby or something.
I will say, that yes, some of the hits they take are super painful, also I agree with milking it to get a break since there are no timeouts and even in the NFL I agree with fake theatrics to get a ref to throw a flag, I see it as part of the game and should be part of the strategy. Like as a receiver if you come up doing the flag motion, maybe a ref reflexively actually throws a flag when he wouldn't have. I don't really care about "deserving" a foul, just getting it. I honestly don't mind flopping, and when someone gets an undeserved foul, I feel like good for them, they scammed the system and deserve it.
That would actually be kind of cool. after 12 innings, if it's still tied then each team picks 3 players and gets 5 pitches each from a pitcher on their team. you can even drag out the pitcher's net so he doesnt get killed by a line drive..
lol. im telling you, majority would love that.
im ok taking a dive or going down even if there was no contact but do they have to act like they were shot by a rifle from a sniper in the upper deck? Go down all you want, contact or no contact, even come up with a fake limp or grab a knee but the theatrics that you just stepped on a land mine is the silly nonsense im referring too.
I don't know why people care about that, sometimes they are hurting their own team if the refs just let them play on and they are laying there and the other team has possession. And like I said, the theatrics might be just to get a break, it never bothered me.
it's funny and pathetic and gives soccer a bad rep from non-soccer fans.. but i agree, i am sure die-hard soccer fans could care less.
What they found with sudden death and then penalties is that teams spent the whole of overtime not taking any chances at all, for fear that they would get hit on the counter and lose the game. At least when teams knew they were going to play 30 minutes, if you give up a goal at five or ten minutes you still have time to get the goal back. But in sudden death you give up a goal at five minutes and you lose, so you do what you have to to make sure that you don't give up that goal. And that means not really trying to score either.
And of course the problem with sudden death with no penalties is that it could take a really, really long time for the game to end. And generally speaking, no one wants that.
It'd be September, and the Pirates would be busting out three guys who combined for 39 home runs on the year, while the first dude batting on the other team would have 42.
There’s absolutely no question some of those collisions and spikes and whatever else are very painful. Some can be downright brutal. But there’s also no question that many are utter nonsense. And unfortunately it’s not limited to soccer.
We’ll you may look a little stupid as well if you don’t think a good number of those writhing in pain on the ground theatrics aren’t some of the finest displays of flopping in sports.
huh?
First, myself included, and I played soccer my entire high school career, didnt know the world cup was decided by penalty kicks. If so, it is pretty lame. They should just play until someone scores. That would be like if an NFL game is tied, that you go to a weird game where the QB tries to throw the ball into a goal with one defender trying to guess which way he is going to throw it. It is dumb, and it comes down to luck as to picking where a guy will kick a ball.
Football, obviously isnt just a kicker kicking a ball through the uprights, the offense had to actually get the ball there, or the defense had to actually stop the other team. It isnt even close. It would be like baseball settling things in extra innings with one fielder, and a batter with a tee, and trying to guess where he will hit it? Or basketball ending in a game of horse?
I beg to differ. Those Lou Groza and Lou Michaels types of long ago weren't hitting 60-yarders. Not even attempting them.
Just bring out the wrestling refs and let them charge a point for stalling.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Bert Rechichar set the NFL record in 1953 (56 yards) and held it for years on his first ever attempt as an emergency fill in and without a special shoe. He also had three interceptions in that game, one was a pick-six.
The only real difference is the guys now kick "soccer style" rather than straight on, buying some more yards, and have become more accurate. That's it.
The problem with playing until someone scores is that there are so few substitutions in soccer that you would be having most of the players on the field the entire time, and as the game went on, they are playing slower and slower, with less and less offense. Is that what you want to watch, and to decide the Cup? Didn’t they try this already, and decide it did not work?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Might be an easy rule to fix. Permit reentry in OT. Changes strategy. Just have to make a way for them to do it more quickly.
