OT: Los Angeles Chargers

[Sean Miller Fan]

Couple things:

1. In this day and age, I have no idea how any city could refuse to build a new stadium to keep a team. Believe me, the owners could more than afford to finance their own but they don't want to use other people's money and they know there are plenty of cities who will gladly build them a stadium. On the one hand, I applaud these city officials and voters for not caving. On the other hand, this is the NFL people. Personally, I'm not an NFL fan but how can any city lose a team? The long-term revenue and region-pride has to offset the expenditures.

2. I know Los Angeles is a megacity and the Chargers played there for a few years and have a little fanbase there. Also, I realize San Diego is just 2 hours down the road so you probably will get some SD Charger fans hanging on. But, LA is Rams/Raiders (still), USC, UCLA. It just seems like the same Inglewood stadium the Rams are going to play at is a bad place to locate a 2nd LA franchise. LA is so big and hard to navigate that it seems like it would make more sense if the 2nd LA team played in a completely different part of LA and drew a fanbase closer to that part of LA....kinda like when the Rams used to play in Anaheim.

I dont just. The Chargers in Inglewood seem like an odd fit. Even odder is that they are playing their first 2 years at the LA Galaxy's 27,000 seat stadium which is on the campus of Cal State-Dominguez Hills. CSUDH has to be the only D2 school to ever host an NFL team. Weird.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

My prediction is that the Chargers will be back in San Diego within 15 years with new ownership. This is a pretty short-sighted move that I don't believe leads to success. Their goal essentially to be the second team in a shared stadium in a city that could probably comfortably support one. Works for the Jets, won't work for the Chargers. If they were dead set on LA I think it would have been smarter for them to build a stadium elsewhere in the region and create a unique identity. I think the Inland Empire Chargers or Orange County Chargers would have been smarter than moving to Inglewood to play second fiddle to the Rams. But then they wouldn't be getting nearly free rent.

The Rams will be the team that comes out on top here given that they own the stadium and have significant history in LA.

 

[SVPanther]

Every City / State who has subsidizied these billionaire bast^^^ds, are ignorant idiots. Nowhere has the subsidy returned anything other than minimum wage jobs not paying even the subsidy let alone any economic miracle. People are getting it now. Better late than never, I guess.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

In the end Spanos will pay 650 million in relocation fees. He could have put some of that 650 million towards a new SD stadium.

Apparently NFL owners are pissed at Spanos for actually following through with the move. They thought their approval vote wouldn't lead to a move (dumb) and Spanos would just use it as a big bargaining chip with San Diego. SD has been more than willing to work with the Chargers and the NFL on building a new stadium. Spanos has essentially gone off the reservation and become the new, far less successful Al Davis.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The long-term revenue and region-pride has to offset the expenditures.

Every single study by every single economist who doesn't work for a sports league shows that not only do the long term revenues not offset the expenditures, they actually don't even come close. Building a stadium is always, always a sucker bet for the city, county or state wasting the millions.

 

[canadakatz]

Tell that to St. Louis.

Every single study by every single economist who doesn't work for a sports league shows that not only do the long term revenues not offset the expenditures, they actually don't even come close. Building a stadium is always, always a sucker bet for the city, county or state wasting the millions.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The long-term revenue and region-pride has to offset the expenditures.

Every single study by every single economist who doesn't work for a sports league shows that not only do the long term revenues not offset the expenditures, they actually don't even come close. Building a stadium is always, always a sucker bet for the city, county or state wasting the millions.

How much tax revenue does an NFL team bring to a city each year? Multiply that by 50 years. I'd have to see the numbers.

As for San Diego, they are idiots because a new stadium gets them the Super Bowl once a decade. How much is that worth to the city?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

1.) No, new stadiums are absolutely not worth it for the taxpayers if you look at it in pure financial terms – which is how the owners are looking at it.

I think you could look at it as a public good but that gets hazy with a for-profit business. However, certainly fans and citizens treat their local teams like a public good as you would a concert hall or the library or the park and I think that argument holds some water. Is that worth $1 billion? Probably not but it's worth a discussion.

2.) I don't blame the city of San Diego for telling Spanos to take a hike. That is a city that can more than stand on its own without the NFL.

However, comparatively speaking, the city of San Diego was not willing to work with the Chargers. A few weeks before the Chargers announced that they were moving to Los Angeles, some members of the San Diego city council sent Spanos an open letter which basically mocked him and his plan. I don't care how you feel about public financing of stadiums, or that particular plan, that is just not good business.

They are not victims here. They made a business decision – I would argue a sound business decision. However, any attempts to paint Spanos as a greedy carpet bagger and the San Diego politicians as blameless victims is entirely incorrect, IMO.

He clearly wanted to stay there but wanted an agreement that was comparable to what many of his peers have gotten in other NFL cities. San Diego was simply unable/unwilling to do that. It's really no more complicated than that.

3.) I cannot believe the NFL allowed this to happen. This is by far the biggest mistake The league has made in decades and this will definitely scar Roger Goodell's legacy far more than deflated footballs or contentious collective-bargaining agreements.

This disaster will be right up there with the concussion thing when people discuss his legacy.

It would've been so worth it for the NFL to quietly fund this project. They could've done so without setting a precedent – they are smart people. In doing so, they would've protected Los Angeles as a one team market, which is what it is.

By basically forcing a second team on the market less than a year after forcing another team on it, this is a disaster waiting to happen for both the Chargers and the Rams.

I cannot possibly properly emphasize how big of a phuck up this is by the NFL.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Tell that to St. Louis.

I don't have to. Every economist not on the payroll of a sports team or league can tell them that.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How much tax revenue does an NFL team bring to a city each year?

Very, very little. Especially when you consider how much it costs a city to host a team. For instance what do you suppose the City of Pittsburgh spends on extra policing on the North Side for an average Stillers game?

 

[michnittlion]

Every single study by every single economist who doesn't work for a sports league shows that not only do the long term revenues not offset the expenditures, they actually don't even come close. Building a stadium is always, always a sucker bet for the city, county or state wasting the millions.

Yep --- it's really not even close.

The pro-sports stadium crowd never incorporates "opportunity costs" into their math. But those are real, true costs. A city can do quite a lot with a billion dollars.

I'm waiting to see what happens (this is coming) in 10-15 years when Mike Brown whines for a new stadium in Cincinnati. Brown has a ridiculous sweetheart deal right now. The city & county basically pay for everything for him! I hope they let the Bengals move to San Antonio or Portland or wherever. Cincinnati will still have its robust collection of Fortune 500 companies and will still be an attractive place with a fairly low cost-of-living. The city and region will survive.

 

[BFo8]

By basically forcing a second team on the market less than a year after forcing another team on it, this is a disaster waiting to happen for both the Chargers and the Rams.

I cannot possibly properly emphasize how big of a phuck up this is by the NFL.

Kind of ironic that LA will now have 2 teams, while being a city full of Raiders fans.

It would have made a lot more sense if the Raiders had went back to Los Angeles and the Chargers moved to Las Vegas, where their games had been broadcast on local radio for years and they already had something of an imprint.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Kind of ironic that LA will now have 2 teams, while being a city full of Raiders fans.

It would have made a lot more sense if the Raiders had went back to Los Angeles and the Chargers moved to Las Vegas, where their games had been broadcast on local radio for years and they already had something of an imprint.

Yeah, that would've definitely made a lot more sense for the larger construct. However, that's not going to happen and instead these morons have opted for a scenario that is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone involved in this mess.

Honestly, the best thing that could happen for all concerned would be for Spanos to sell the team in the next few years and have the new owner move the team back to San Diego.

That seems like a real long shot to me but that's the only real way this can get fixed.

 

[michnittlion]

Yeah, that would've definitely made a lot more sense for the larger construct. However, that's not going to happen and instead these morons have opted for a scenario that is going to be an unmitigated disaster for everyone involved in this mess.

Honestly, the best thing that could happen for all concerned would be for Spanos to sell the team in the next few years and have the new owner move the team back to San Diego.

That seems like a real long shot to me but that's the only real way this can get fixed.

I don't know if the NFL can do this by their bylaws (probably not) ---- but they should have just forced Spanos into selling the team to them.

I seriously think Spanos' primary motivation in moving was spite. Screw you San Diego for not funding my stadium more fully. Screw you NFL for endorsing the Inglewood stadium instead of my Carson stadium. Screw you Kroenke, I'm going to try to take some of your new city's fans.

You are right --- the LA Chargers are going to be a full-on train wreck. I'm honestly looking forward to it.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

I don't know if the NFL can do this by their bylaws (probably not) ---- but they should have just forced Spanos into selling the team to them.

I seriously think Spanos' primary motivation in moving was spite. Screw you San Diego for not funding my stadium more fully. Screw you NFL for endorsing the Inglewood stadium instead of my Carson stadium. Screw you Kroenke, I'm going to try to take some of your new city's fans.

You are right --- the LA Chargers are going to be a full-on train wreck. I'm honestly looking forward to it.

President Trump has no love for the NFL and they to him, who knows maybe he will pass laws on the NFL ending Taxpayers support and moving Teams on any whim. He can gain in popularity by doing it in Big Cities at the expense of only NFL & Owners.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Beach communities are no place for a football team to be located. Spanos and the city had 17 years to get a new stadium and couldn't get it done. The San Diego Union Tribune polled the people and the results showed the people of San Diego would rather keep Comic-Con and let the Chargers walk.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Comic-Con wasn't asking for a billion dollar subsidy.

 

[pbrad]

I agree with the poster above that Spanos should have used the relocation "fine" money and put it towards a new stadium. One of the problems in San Diego was that he had losing teams, had they been a playoff franchise the city would have found a way to keep them. Cities may not re coup all the money spent on stadiums, but business and workers who will no longer have the revenue produced by having an NFL team will suffer.

Imagine the Burg without an NFL team, less people at restaurants, no sales of gear, hotels, transportation, etc.

One good thing would be more people at PITT games.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think the city of San Diego is going to miss the Chargers more than they realize right now. I know that all west coast cities get treated like they are laissez-faire but they're not.

I have been to a Chargers game and it was a legitimate NFL atmosphere. To be honest, it surprised me how passionate and intense they were.

That said, it was also many years ago now and I remember thinking way back then that QUALCOMM was a dump and they needed to replace it.

Honestly, this probably would've been around the time they tore down Three Rivers Stadium so we're probably talking somewhere between 16–18 years ago.

As I said, if you consider this like a public trust I think it takes on a different context – and a more accurate context – than if you treat it like it's just another business.

Nobody cares if the local widget factory shuts its doors and moves to another city. Sure, the people who work in the widget factory care and there's a smattering of people around the community that would care as well. However, for the most part, it's just another one off news story.

That's even true for biggies like car factories and other giant manufacturers.

However, losing your team is a whole different deal – even for a city like San Diego.

The local NFL team is a source of community pride and unity. It's what people talk about at the local donut and coffee shop – or in San Diego's case, the fish taco stand. It is truly a local jewel.

When you read these economic impact studies they never take that into account. They treat it like a pure business transaction, which is what it is in reality. However, that is not how it is viewed by the community and that is what blurs the line.

Again, that community pride can definitely be twisted priority wise and should only extend so far, but it is in unquantifiable factor in all of these decisions and that side of the discussion is rarely presented.

In other words, this is not like the new Shell cracker plant going up in Beaver County. First of all, that will be way more financially beneficial than any NFL team would ever be for this area. However, that's not how the community views it and that changes the equation entirely.

The team gives a community its sense of worth and belonging as a big-time city. How do you quantify that? How do you economize that?

It's a complex question that I don't have an answer to.

Here's what I do know: in a past life I used to travel all over the country as part of my former job– which I hated. When people would ask me where I was from and I said Pittsburgh, their reaction was never, "Oh, the home of Heinz Ketchup (or US Steel or PPG or anyone else)!"

It was always - and I mean ALWAYS - "Well then you must be a Steelers fan!" Then they would usually tell me about some connection they have to the Steelers through their grandparents or uncle or favorite teacher growing up or whomever. They usually loved the Steelers but there were definitely times where people told me they absolutely hated the Steelers. Those people usually had ties to Dallas, Oakland or the state of Ohio.

How do you quantify that?

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I think these billionaire owners extorting cities for billion dollar boondoggle stadiums is unethical and should be illegal.

However, those same billionaire owners are also some of the largest political donors in the entire system. No one's going to tell Robert Kraft that they don't want his money and he is extremely active in Massachusetts and US politics.

He doesn't give them all of those donations because of his civic-mindedness, he pays protection money to protect his business interests – including the New England Patriots and Gillette Stadium.

There are 31 other guys just like him. They all donate heavily locally, at the state level and at the national level. In other words, don't hold your breath on any laws being passed that might injure those people.

That said, if all of these other cities are doing it, and all of these other NFL owners are reaping the rewards, of course the Chargers are going to want the same out of San Diego – who wouldn't?

As I said earlier, I don't blame San Diego one bit for telling Spanos to take a hike. That is their right and it is definitely a sound business choice on their part.

However, the theory behind telling an NFL team to pound salt and the reality of it when they actually call your bluff are two different things. The reality is San Diego may have just lost its NFL team forever and that is not an easy pill to swallow, even if you have perfect weather and lovely beaches nearby.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

You must have went to the Chargers' games in 2006 when the team was 14-2 and the one seed. I lived there from 2000-10 and there were way too many times where the games weren't sold out and the local Indian casinos gobbled up the remaining 2,500-3,500 tickets so it would be on TV. Those idiot fans had back-to-back franchise QBs and always took that for granted, which is a sin in the NFL.

The Chargers leaving is more of a blow to the transplants than the locals. I do feel bad for their die-hard fans, but there just aren't enough of those around. Now the people of San Diego can get back to going to the beach and reminding fans of teams from cold-weather towns just how great their weather is, which it is.

What needs to be in San Diego is a 10,000 seat arena for an NBA team near the Petco Park and the bars. The NBA failed there a long time ago, but I think it could work now. I even have the name: San Diego Breeze.

 

[yourhired]

The Spanos family felt the citizens of San Diego should bow down to them and build them a stadium the residents told them take a hike. If Spanos really wanted to stay in San Diego he had other options on the table in the surrounding area so now he's committed playing in a 30,000 Soccer stadium until the new stadium is built I'm sure the NFL is helping offset some of the financial ticket sales while the Chargers are playing in the soccer stadium. I'll predict neither LA NFL team will be successful the NFL is an after thought in LA and the NFL was foaming at the mouth to get two teams in LA. Just because LA has two baseball teams and two baseball teams doesn't translate to financial success in the NFL. I just read that UCLA averaged this year only 67,000 and USC averaged around 65,000 in attendance.

 

[h2p_5150]

The Rams and Chargers are rarely going to sell out their games but this is not about attendance. The NFL now has an AFC and an NFC game to sell for the second largest TV market in the US every Sunday. These moves are about TV ratings, pure and simple. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

One final thing. I want to reiterate that I am not letting Spanos off the hook here. It may read like it but that is not my intent.

Moving to Los Angeles is truly a boneheaded move on his part and one that he will surely come to regret. That city probably doesn't want professional football and if it does want professional football it wants the Raiders.

Bringing the Rams back there may work. In fact, I think it should work. The Rams were once the darlings of Los Angeles before the Raiders moved into town and took over. I think the Rams could reclaim their place in the City of Angels.

However, the San Diego Chargers are definitely not going to work in Los Angeles. They have no history there, they have no fan base there, and they are not wanted by anyone. Their future landlord doesn't want them there and the pro football fans that are already living in Los Angeles don't want them there either. This is going to be a hot mess from the word go and it was all emanently avoidable if people had acted like adults – including the NFL. They should not be let off the hook here either.

You want to know what will be the height of dysfunction? For the next several years – the foreseeable future really – when the Los Angeles Chargers host the Las Vegas Raiders, which sounds completely ridiculous all the way around, the Raiders will have more fans in the stands in the games played in Los Angeles than will the "home" team. How goofy is that?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The Rams and Chargers are rarely going to sell out their games but this is not about attendance. The NFL now has an AFC and an NFC game to sell for the second largest TV market in the US every Sunday. These moves are about TV ratings, pure and simple. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

But according to literally all of the behind the scenes reports, the NFL did not want a second team in Los Angeles. They're worried about killing the golden goose again.

Two teams in LA is at least one too many.

I truly believe that the NFL screwed up here as much as anyone. They should've stepped forward and built a stadium in San Diego for the Chargers.

I understand that they didn't want to do that and they certainly did not want to set a precedent of doing that. However, I truly believe they could've found a way to get around that issue had they chosen to do so.

The money they spent on that San Diego stadium would have been well worth it to protect their brand new Los Angeles investment. However, the NFL arrogantly and foolishly assumed that the threat of Los Angeles would cause San Diego to buckle and when that didn't happen the NFL choked and now everyone is going to pay for that.

 

[canadakatz]

I have friends in St. Louis that were lost during the season without their NFL franchise. The pain is not worth the couple hundred dollars the citizens in the metro area had to shell out per capita to keep a team.

I don't have to. Every economist not on the payroll of a sports team or league can tell them that.

 

[h2p_5150]

But according to literally all of the behind the scenes reports, the NFL did not want a second team in Los Angeles. They're worried about killing the golden goose again.

Two teams in LA is at least one too many.

I truly believe that the NFL screwed up here as much as anyone. They should've stepped forward and built a stadium in San Diego for the Chargers.

I understand that they didn't want to do that and they certainly did not want to set a precedent of doing that. However, I truly believe they could've found a way to get around that issue had they chosen to do so.

The money they spent on that San Diego stadium would have been well worth it to protect their brand new Los Angeles investment. However, the NFL arrogantly and foolishly assumed that the threat of Los Angeles would cause San Diego to buckle and when that didn't happen the NFL choked and now everyone is going to pay for that.

Do you have a link to anything about them not wanting this? From what I've read they didn't want the Raiders going back to LA b/c local gangs love the logo and gear and the league thinks that is bad for their brand but nothing about them being opposed to two teams being in LA.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

But according to literally all of the behind the scenes reports, the NFL did not want a second team in Los Angeles. They're worried about killing the golden goose again.

Two teams in LA is at least one too many.

I truly believe that the NFL screwed up here as much as anyone. They should've stepped forward and built a stadium in San Diego for the Chargers.

I understand that they didn't want to do that and they certainly did not want to set a precedent of doing that. However, I truly believe they could've found a way to get around that issue had they chosen to do so.

The money they spent on that San Diego stadium would have been well worth it to protect their brand new Los Angeles investment. However, the NFL arrogantly and foolishly assumed that the threat of Los Angeles would cause San Diego to buckle and when that didn't happen the NFL choked and now everyone is going to pay for that.

Do you have a link to anything about them not wanting this? From what I've read they didn't want the Raiders going back to LA b/c local gangs love the logo and gear and the league thinks that is bad for their brand but nothing about them being opposed to two teams being in LA.

Yes, I do. There are actually a lot of published reports just like this one.

NFL doesn't want Chargers in Los Angeles

 

[Panther Holla]

Count me among the "no public financing for stadiums" crowd. Where's the fans' payoff for funding PNC Park? Or building the Coal Cellar/Paint Bucket in Uptown only to have the Penguins twiddle their flippers over development of the old Igloo site? These venues are superb, but the idea that they have to be paid for on the taxpayers' dimes is folly.

Keep a watch: Atlanta and the State of Georgia caved in to the extortion that led to replacing a perfectly serviceable 20-year old stadium with a new facility. Why? More bells and whistles -- revenue streams -- for the Falcons, NFL, SEC -- who could afford to build new stadiums whenever and wherever they want.

If 20 years is the new standard of obsolescence, just wait for the narrative to start on the North Shore, Cincinnati, etc.

 

[Panther Holla]

Do you have a link to anything about them not wanting this? From what I've read they didn't want the Raiders going back to LA b/c local gangs love the logo and gear and the league thinks that is bad for their brand but nothing about them being opposed to two teams being in LA.

If I was San Diego, I'd pitch the Raiders, hard.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

...don't forget Heinz Field. It is a far worse investment than either of the hockey arena or the baseball field.

 

[TheNoise88]

I think some of us are too Yinzer centric. This city couldn't possibly imagine existence without Da Stillers. However, San Diego hardly needs the Chargers to justify itself as a destination city. It has a lot more going for itself. Ironically Pittsburgh has a lot more too, but chooses to identify itself almost totally with the Steelers. Thus the team has so much more leverage here than obviously the Chargers did in SD.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Every single study by every single economist who doesn't work for a sports league shows that not only do the long term revenues not offset the expenditures, they actually don't even come close. Building a stadium is always, always a sucker bet for the city, county or state wasting the millions.

Yep. But it is also the most emotional political topic in many cases. What is funny, is Father Football has to, by far, return the LEAST amount for the buck. 8-10 days the stadium is used. 8-10 days a year. Throw in maybe 4-5 concerts. At least for an NBA or NHL team, an all purpose arena is filled for at least 40 days for their schedule, and definitely another 25 to 50 days for concerts, circuses, shows, etc... At least you get 100 events at the minimum. Baseball, you get 81 games, plus maybe 2-3 concerts. A football stadium is basically used a little over a week a year. Yeah, that has to be a great investment!

 

[h2p_5150]

Yes, I do. There are actually a lot of published reports just like this one.

NFL doesn't want Chargers in Los Angeles

What a disaster. I thought the owners would have to vote on something like this but apparantly one dumbass owner can just move a team like this and hurt the value of the whole league.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

If I was San Diego, I'd pitch the Raiders, hard.

The Raiders to Las Vegas is already a done deal. It's been a done deal for months. San Diego is going to have to steal another NFL franchise – maybe the Jaguars?

That's what this moronic move has done.

It's going to destroy the Chargers, it could hurt the Rams, and it might force the relocation of another team.

Unreal.

As I said earlier, I cannot overemphasize just how incredibly poorly the NFL handled this entire situation.

I predict at this, not anything to do with the New England Patriots, is what people will most remember about Roger Goodell's legacy as commissioner. I think it is that big of a screwup.

This is like something you would see in the NHL where one time the first overall pick was traded to two different teams at the same time. This is not like something you would typically see from the NFL.

 

[PantherO]

I can't remember...Didn't the Tax Payers vote down Heinz Field? Twice? And then the City shoved the funding on us anyway.

The owners with the TV money are filthy rich....they should pay for the stadium.

People think the Rooney's are loyal to this area....let them leave if they want to next time. If they are loyal, they will stay and build....If they aren't (which I am betting on), let them leave.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

1.) No, new stadiums are absolutely not worth it for the taxpayers if you look at it in pure financial terms – which is how the owners are looking at it.

I think you could look at it as a public good but that gets hazy with a for-profit business. However, certainly fans and citizens treat their local teams like a public good as you would a concert hall or the library or the park and I think that argument holds some water. Is that worth $1 billion? Probably not but it's worth a discussion.

2.) I don't blame the city of San Diego for telling Spanos to take a hike. That is a city that can more than stand on its own without the NFL.

However, comparatively speaking, the city of San Diego was not willing to work with the Chargers. A few weeks before the Chargers announced that they were moving to Los Angeles, some members of the San Diego city council sent Spanos an open letter which basically mocked him and his plan. I don't care how you feel about public financing of stadiums, or that particular plan, that is just not good business.

They are not victims here. They made a business decision – I would argue a sound business decision. However, any attempts to paint Spanos as a greedy carpet bagger and the San Diego politicians as blameless victims is entirely incorrect, IMO.

He clearly wanted to stay there but wanted an agreement that was comparable to what many of his peers have gotten in other NFL cities. San Diego was simply unable/unwilling to do that. It's really no more complicated than that.

3.) I cannot believe the NFL allowed this to happen. This is by far the biggest mistake The league has made in decades and this will definitely scar Roger Goodell's legacy far more than deflated footballs or contentious collective-bargaining agreements.

This disaster will be right up there with the concussion thing when people discuss his legacy.

It would've been so worth it for the NFL to quietly fund this project. They could've done so without setting a precedent – they are smart people. In doing so, they would've protected Los Angeles as a one team market, which is what it is.

By basically forcing a second team on the market less than a year after forcing another team on it, this is a disaster waiting to happen for both the Chargers and the Rams.

I cannot possibly properly emphasize how big of a phuck up this is by the NFL.

Doc, do you think the NFL really cares? I agree totally what you are saying. This would be a much bigger topic if the Steelers win, but look at the utter contempt the NFL has for its fanbase. Starting this year, if you were a season ticket holder and "won" the lottery you actually have to go to Houston (the site of the Super Bowl) and produce a government ID to claim those tickets. So say I am a 25 year season ticket holders, spending maybe $2500 a year on tickets, another $5000 spent on PSL to get those tickets, now if I would win a lottery I must get on a plane and fly to the city of the event to claim those tickets. What if I couldn't go, but wanted to give them or sell them at face value to friends or other family members? What if I want to take advantage of the secondary market? It is my tickets, I paid for them.

That is just another example of the NFL saying "F U" to the fans. What the NFL hates is having a Super Bowl look like a Steelers home game. Or a Packers home game. It is a corporate affair. Also, they hate the secondary market. So they are trying to screw the Stub Hubs of the world. But also, a nice little ancillary benefit is now a team may not sell all of its allotted tickets, to which it is more tickets to corporate sponsors. YAY ROGER GOODELL.

Why the desire to have another team in LA? Really what does LA do for the NFL? Big market, sure. But the NFL is different from other sports. It is brand loyal, not necessarily city loyal. Pittsburgh and Green Bay are among the smaller cities/markets, but their brand is significantly more popular than say the Jets, the Dolphins, the Texans, Lions, Eagles, Bears, 49ers, Falcons, all who are from significantly larger markets. This is not the MLB. Having this desire to have teams in LA is as much as a pipedream thinking that Rutgers would deliver the NYC market to the Big 10.

Goodell is a despicable human being. In almost every other sport, you have seen the league step in and referee and prevent an egregious petty move like this, but not the NFL. As someone said, San Diego will not be any worse for ware, not for what it offers, but what about say, Buffalo? Buffalo's only relevance nationally is the Bills (and wings and snow). All it takes is one asshole owner and there is always a willing partner for the NFL, and gone. Oakland is next on the clock..........then........I am guessing Jacksonville.

 

[Pitt79]

Tell that to St. Louis.

St. Louis is giving up NFL and focusing on getting into MLS.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Very, very little. Especially when you consider how much it costs a city to host a team. For instance what do you suppose the City of Pittsburgh spends on extra policing on the North Side for an average Stillers game?

Again, for the Stillers, Heinz is used a week and half a year. How many "jobs" does that produce? Much tax revenue does that produce? How many expenditures on city services is needed? Same with any football stadium. Really, all an NFL team is to a city is a billboard, an extremely expensive advertising campaign.

 

[Pitt79]

This barely made the news. I won't be surprised if they move back to SD eventually. LA is a huge city, but I doubt they can support 2 NFL teams.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

What a disaster. I thought the owners would have to vote on something like this but apparantly one dumbass owner can just move a team like this and hurt the value of the whole league.

Normally, they do have to vote on things like this. However, this is what makes this particular situation so incredibly egregious.

The NFL is not only allowing this to happen, they basically forced Spanos to do this by giving him a deadline once it was announced that the league had chosen the Rams' plan to move to Inglewood rather than the joint plan between the Chargers and the Raiders that would have moved those teams to Carson

If you are looking at it from Spanos's perspective, what other choice did he have but to make the move?

He has no prospects for a new stadium in his current city and he has a brand spanking new state-of-the-art free stadium waiting for him just two hours up the road in the second largest market in the country.

He had to do this. The NFL literally forced him to do this and cut their own throats in the process.

It's mind-boggling and they deserve every ounce of criticism they are about to receive for this disaster.

The commissioner deserves criticism, guys like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder – who helped force this deal – deserve criticism, every single one of them deserves criticism for this. They have screwed this up beyond belief.

The only way to remedy this is to step in and build a stadium in San Diego. Of course, now that war has been declared, they're going to have to buy out Spanos too and there's no way he's going away cheaply.

They need a new owner in San Diego and a new stadium. That's the only way to reverse this incredible dysfunction. However, it's now going to be three times as expensive as it would've been if they just done this a year or two ago.

If I am the NFL, I am working day and night with Spanos to get him to cash out. I'm not sure what his mindset is but I'm trying to explain to him that this has no chance of working and is going to be expensive and embarrassing for all concerned.

Conversely, he stands to make an incredible profit from the sale of this franchise.

I am also working with someone who will buy the team and move it back to San Diego. Perhaps they can even privately negotiate with the city/county behind the scenes about the financing structure of a new stadium. If San Diego won't wheel and deal now, they never will and they therefore should not have an NFL team.

The NFL should also kick in a lot more money for that stadium project because it is worth it to protect their investment in the Los Angeles Rams.

If the NFL can identify the right owner and that owner came quickly and effectively negotiate with the city of San Diego, the Chargers may only be in Los Angeles for three or four years.

That's not ideal and certainly not as good as if they would have done the right thing in the first place. However, it could still work albeit with some scarring.

However, the NFL is incredibly arrogant and cheap and I would not be at all surprised to see them make what is already a mess a complete quagmire.