OT: Marte and the Pirates
- Thread starter Fk_Pitt
- Start date
Well one thing I would do. Whether Huntingdon stays or goes, the first thing I would do is fire Hurdle and hire this guy.
Part of it may be his education... apparently keeping in contact with the base as you slide through a tag is not part of the curriculum down there...
There isn't a fork big enough to stick into the Pirates. They're burnt toast.
Even the few diehards that manage to show up are booing them.
Wait until next year? For what?
Taillon shut down again with arm pain, Polanco can't throw, Bell has hit the skids, Archer is a home run derby pitcher, Kela is a head case, Melky and Dickerson will be gone, and on and on.
Nutting, Huntington, Coonly and Hurdle will be back. Nuff said.
Blow it up and start over? Just blow it up!
Even the few diehards that manage to show up are booing them.
Wait until next year? For what?
Taillon shut down again with arm pain, Polanco can't throw, Bell has hit the skids, Archer is a home run derby pitcher, Kela is a head case, Melky and Dickerson will be gone, and on and on.
Nutting, Huntington, Coonly and Hurdle will be back. Nuff said.
Blow it up and start over? Just blow it up!
Starling Marte is waaaaayyyyyy down the list of the Pirates' problems.
Now that their elimination is purely academic, who is getting traded? I'd put the most likely in order:
Kela
Dickerson
Lyles
Cabrera
Liriano
Kela
Dickerson
Lyles
Cabrera
Liriano
But he also won't be around for the solution. So part of him being the solution is trading him for prospects.
If you packaged all five of them together you wouldn't get even one top level prospect.
No. You would maybe get a Rich Rodriguez, a Jeff Locke type, a Rob Mackowiak......that's it. More of the same.
Joe,
If I was a "special consultant" to one Robert Nutting and he hired me, this is exactly what I would do.
Wait. Trade those above guys, big deal. Wait. Season ends...and Huntington, Coonelly, Hurdle and Searage (and most of the others) are fired.
I would put everyone on the block. Marte is under control reasonably for 2 years. Vasquez 4 years. Even Josh Bell. What you do by waiting until the offseason is:
a) new management group that is hopefully Better than the Best Management Team in Sports.
b) Those three guys are signed, affordable and young enough to bring in teams that aren't even contenders. So perhaps a team retooling quickly, teams that may not want to be active at this deadline like the Angels, DBacks, Mets, or Rangers, might be interested in the offseaon.
Burn it all down and build it up. If you lose 120 next year, what is the difference between that or 90?
Give them another "five-year plan". They've already had about as many of those as China under Mao.
Generally speaking that's what I'd do as well. I mean I'd let people know that guys like Marte and Vasquez were available, but only for a huge package made up of top prospects. If you aren't offering that, don't bother. Then in the winter open up the bidding and see what you can get.
The thing is, despite decades of incompetence, they have really never done this. Under this regime, they have built something, then got to a WC level team, but then never built on to that to try and win it all. And that window has come and gone. Just going along with what they are doing now will be 20 more years of not making the postseason. So for once, be honest and stop this facade of "contenders" because they aren't and try and do it the old fashion way, build from the ground up.
What you all don't take into account is the fact that the owner has no interest in winning a championship, or anything else for that matter.
A lot, if not most, owners of sports franchises are miserably rich, and these teams are their hobbies, albeit very profitable and valuable hobbies. They have a desire to compete with each other and WIN.
Nutting checks the miserably rich box, he's like the 4th or 5th richest MLB owner. The problem is, he sees the club as a business asset only. He runs the team not to win but to manage the bottom line. He is guaranteed a profit every year by following his business model, despite attendance, and in addition, the overall value of his asset is growing at a ridiculous rate.
He and his team do just enough to maintain a low level of interest and market the team like a mediocre movie. Their attendance is abysmal but it doesn't bother them, they make money. Nutting has no shame, he is like an invisible man and just doesn't care as long as he's making $$$.
The management team is excellent at one thing, bull$hitting fans and the public. Hurdle and Huntington baffle the masses with BS. Hurdle talks in a series of cliches that roll of his tongue like poetry. Huntington speaks the other world language of sabermetrics. You listen to his rationales and you say "What he said"!
Pittsburgh, and it's publically funded jewel of a stadium, are held hostage by this crew and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Obviously not going to games isn't going to do it because very few go and nothing changes. The politicians are hostage because of the need to have a mlb franchise in town is paramount to being a big time city.
MLB management loves Nutting. Why wouldn't they? He runs a high level farm system for other teams that are serious about winning.
Face it, baseball is dead in Pittsburgh and as long as Nutting is in charge, it will never come back to life.
A lot, if not most, owners of sports franchises are miserably rich, and these teams are their hobbies, albeit very profitable and valuable hobbies. They have a desire to compete with each other and WIN.
Nutting checks the miserably rich box, he's like the 4th or 5th richest MLB owner. The problem is, he sees the club as a business asset only. He runs the team not to win but to manage the bottom line. He is guaranteed a profit every year by following his business model, despite attendance, and in addition, the overall value of his asset is growing at a ridiculous rate.
He and his team do just enough to maintain a low level of interest and market the team like a mediocre movie. Their attendance is abysmal but it doesn't bother them, they make money. Nutting has no shame, he is like an invisible man and just doesn't care as long as he's making $$$.
The management team is excellent at one thing, bull$hitting fans and the public. Hurdle and Huntington baffle the masses with BS. Hurdle talks in a series of cliches that roll of his tongue like poetry. Huntington speaks the other world language of sabermetrics. You listen to his rationales and you say "What he said"!
Pittsburgh, and it's publically funded jewel of a stadium, are held hostage by this crew and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Obviously not going to games isn't going to do it because very few go and nothing changes. The politicians are hostage because of the need to have a mlb franchise in town is paramount to being a big time city.
MLB management loves Nutting. Why wouldn't they? He runs a high level farm system for other teams that are serious about winning.
Face it, baseball is dead in Pittsburgh and as long as Nutting is in charge, it will never come back to life.
Stay by the phone.
With Nutting's level of interest in winning, you'd probably be exactly the kind of "special consultant" he'd hire.
Highest qualification: Work Cheap!
Can't argue with anything you said except I think most people here are also fed up with the BS, the trust factor here is probably at a low last seen since Littleyield was running the team.
It will go down. I do totally agree with you that Nutting has given the "okay" to be mediocre, just don't be an embarrassment and your jobs are safe.
Everyone talks about a "cap". What I wish is baseball would get rid of the luxury tax so owners like Nutting get money for artificially keeping the payroll low. Because where is Nutting's incentive (outside the desire to actually win) to spend more, because spending more doesn't guarantee anything, when you can stay at the bottom of the payroll, get some of the money from the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yanks, Angels, etc....and just party on.
Yep. Guaranteed profit without lifting a finger. Nice gig if you can get it.
People ARE frustrated, and likely take it out on Mr. Cliche and Mr. Sabermetrics, because they are the vocal and visible faces of the franchise. But their anger, while justified, is misdirected.
Those two are merely puppets. Getting rid of them will change nothing. Just new faces to con the people until they wear out their welcome.
A new manager or GM won't make a bit of difference, they are still confined by Nutting's rules, or should I say RULE: CHEAP!!!
No difference really. But after you burn it all down and build it back up you may still get a team that looks just like this one that is likely going to lose 90+.
No top prospects... so what? That never stopped them from making a trade before.
Right on cue, Dickerson hurt at trade deadline.
Who didn't know that wasn't going to happen?
Snakebit franchise, bad karma coming back on the Greedy owner.
Who didn't know that wasn't going to happen?
Snakebit franchise, bad karma coming back on the Greedy owner.
I bought 2 for the August series with St. Louis. I bought them right before the all star break when they were looking exciting. Man, what a let down! Pathetic is all I can say.
Well at least you'll see one good MLB team!
Enjoy the ballpark, have a couple beers and dogs, hope for a nice evening and try to forget about Nutting, Huntington and Hurdle.
Maybe by then they'll have jettisoned a few guys and picked up some interesting young players to watch? God knows the current bunch ain't worth a crap.
The only sad part is you've put a few bucks in Nutting's pocket. Should buy for a deep discount on the secondary market, that way your contribution to his kingdom is minimal.
More from the snakebit column. Adding to Dickerson being hurt at the trade deadline, you have the Bucco's showcasing Kang, and him forgetting how to catch a pop up, field a grounder, or make contact with a baseball.
You have Lyles giving up a gazillion runs in one inning, Kela throwing a temper tantrum and playing clubhouse bully, and Cervelli still nursing his concussions.
What a trainwreck of bad karma coming home to roost. Everything they touch turns to crap!
You have Lyles giving up a gazillion runs in one inning, Kela throwing a temper tantrum and playing clubhouse bully, and Cervelli still nursing his concussions.
What a trainwreck of bad karma coming home to roost. Everything they touch turns to crap!
It's hilarious, in some ways it is unfortunate but in many others, it is reaping what they have sowed.
I find it really interesting that their local TV contract is up this year and at the same time, AT&T Sports is up for sale, which currently broadcasts the Pirates (and Pens). Now that I think of it, perhaps this was somewhat influential in the Pirates making the Archer deal last year. I dunno.
Just wow.......I said I hoped for the Pirates to one way or another come out of the break so at the deadline it is a definitive direction, but I couldn't even imagine it being this bad.
If the Pirates would do the very right things.....they would fire everyone, gut the organization down to the studs and frame and be honest with the fans on a true rebuild. But they almost can't do this now, with how they have mismanaged and been so dishonest the past few years.
Because the Pirates were at 98 wins. They were there. The fans came. And despite all of the rhetoric leading up to that season about expanding the payroll if attendance rises after getting 2.5 million fans in 2014 and 15, yet payroll still remained in the bottom half of the league.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
The business model preys on the fan's "hope". You have to put something out there occasionally that gives everyone hope that this might be the season. The ugly part of that model is that you have to dismantle the team occasionally to reset payroll. As soon as the payroll inched up to a semi-respectable level, I posted here that the dismantling will begin. My God the hate. But it's part of the cycle. Just remember, a deep run into the playoffs is too expensive to be a viable option to attempt deliberately.
Agree it’s not like you’re blowing up the 79 Pirates - this is a group of mediocre Ham n Eggers that will perpetually finish around 70-80 wins and tease the fans into believing they are on the cusp, when in fact they are closer to the cliff as their post-All Star break abysmal play has shown.
But see....you are wrong. Well partly. You are absolutely right on "cycles". But not the Pirates, they think they can avoid these cycles, that they may have a "bridge" year, but they can be contenders in perpetuity. Now you know, I know and they deep down know, but that is the BS they are trying to sell. And the only people they are fooling, is themselves.
Perfect example, is the Garrit Cole trade. You should have been able to get at least one prime prospect for Garrit Cole. Hell, the Rays got two from the Pirates for David Archer. Plus Shane Baz. Chris Sale brought alot in return. David Price. But Huntington didn't go after the Astros best prospects, he went after more lower ceiling but "major league ready" guys like Joe Musgrove and Colin Moran. Cole's an All Star ace, a #1 overall draft pick. How the Pirates didn't ask for one of Forest Whitley or Kyle Tucker is beyond me. Or I do know, Musgrove, Moran, Felix were all considered ready for the MLB, but none projected as anything other than avg WAR players.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Moneyball really opened the realm of possibilities when it comes to stupid moves. There is always one advanced statistic that you can use to justify a move.
It should also be noted that the Pirates ratings pre-All Star game were up significantly over the same period last season. I'm guessing part of the hold up for a new deal is that the Pirates want to be paid at least partly based on those ratings, and AT&T is trying to lowball them as much as possible to make the station more attractive to a potential buyer.
Yea.... just forget about baseball....pretend you’re at a cookout
Welp.........this ain't helping those negotiations now is it?? What an effed up franchise. They are getting everything they deserve. Unfortunately Pirates fans really don't deserve this.
It begins and ends with Nutsack! As long as he is there, and has his puppeteers perpetrating his cheapskate act, baseball in this town is dead. It doesn't matter if you tear it all down, when they build it back up, you still get a Nutsack special, otherwise known as a shitshow. There is zero hope until this franchise is in the hands of another owner. I feel bad for Pittsburgh and any lifelong Pirate fan, but, honestly I don't give a damn if they moved the Pirates out of town starting today. I can't and won't waste anymore of my money or time on the shitshow!
Similar threads
