OT: Olympics - Biles
- Thread starter Slick Manager of Champs
- Start date
I think Jordan and Brady are awesome but Jordan has 4 other teammates and Brady has 10. Plus coaches calling plays, making adjustments, etc.
again if Phelps or someone similar calls her out, such as an all time great boxer I'd listen. Short of that it's illegitimate IMO.
shes on an island out there and one mistake its over. She doesn't have 3 more quarters to make it up. Not too many sports where one slip is catostrophic.
again if Phelps or someone similar calls her out, such as an all time great boxer I'd listen. Short of that it's illegitimate IMO.
shes on an island out there and one mistake its over. She doesn't have 3 more quarters to make it up. Not too many sports where one slip is catostrophic.
These guys have been circle jerking since their 20s and are still generating clickbait despite being old fat and in their 50s. Praise them. They are heroes.
So I guess you’re suggesting that no one can ever question any coach unless they’ve coached at the same level? Unless you’ve also owned a team, you have no right to question any owner? Unless you’ve played professional sports, you have no right to ever question a professional athlete?
And unless you were a former President, you have no right to ever question President’s Biden or Trump?
Or does this only apply to gymnast’s ?
Piers Morgan is not allowed to have an opinion that is different than mine because he was removed from a show for having an opinion that is different than mine
Piers Morgan asks if mental health is ‘now the go-to excuse’ following Simone Biles’ exit from team competition
Outspoken pundit Piers Morgan may have won the gold medal for blunt opinion Tuesday when he questioned top gymnast Simone Biles’ sudden departure from the Olympics team competition following an uncharacteristically poor performance. “Are ‘mental health issues’ now the go-to excuse for any poor...news.yahoo.com
Anyone can question or have an opinion but people acting like they have ESP or that Biles personally told
Them
She quit or are authorities on her mind set...sigh
Can’t object to your first paragraph.
But I still think Brady and Jordan have a better case for GOAT in their sport than Biles in hers.
Totally fair. I'd put Phelps ahead of both.
I just think those Individual sports where one
Split second Mistake negates years and years of practice and there is no second chance-figure skating, 100 yd dash, boxing, gymnastics etc are different breeds all together and tough for anyone to understand. The pressure must be unreal. Football and basketball has teammates, in game coaching, timeouts, 4 quarters etc.
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Interesting that a couple of Biles' big defenders believe that choking does occur in sports.
so she was off. sick, tired, anxious, etc? you gonna judge her for this? really?
Only objection I have in this whole saga is the continuing claim of GOAT in her sport. Your point about split second mistakes is a non-starter for me in that debate. Everyone her sport faces that same risk.
mental toughness and performance under pressure in my opinion define GOAT more than physical abilities. Don’t see how she can even be considered in that discussion in her sport any longer regardless of the full story or how it gets framed to the public.
A lot of gymnasts over a long history aren’t considered in that GOAT discussion because of split second mistakes and mental lapses for many different reasons. And many who haven’t had those mistakes and mental lapses whose resumes conversely get minimized by also not being considered in that discussion.
Yeah, I’m going to judge her, solely from the perspective of consideration for GOAT in her sport. Particularly because, from my uneducated eye, it sure appeared to me that she was anxious and nervous. Otherwise, I don’t criticize or demean her for this failing.
Really, USA Gymnastics shouldn't even exist anymore. That organization was simply an abuse factory for scores of young athletes. They make Penn State look normal.
she's literally the gymnastics goat. you sure you want to go there? you, me, and no one else has any idea why the GOAT had a problem and had to pull out. this isn't a guy running slants w/ a bum ankle. you have to be 100% to jump off devices or your team loses. are you sure you want to go the route of "i'm a angry lame a-hole?"
Not angry in the least bit although I have a bum knee right now do lane may be accurate. But we’ll chalk you up as someone you can’t conduct a civil debate or discussion with. Bye.
The Russians had a bunch of slips on the balance beam and still won gold.
Why does this rationale only apply to female gymnasts? I don't see this same line of argument with athletes from other sports.
The big issue is whether or not she competes in the individual events. If she is done for the Olympics, then it makes more sense that there is a serious problem. If she still competes, then it looks really bad. How can you have a mental issue that is so bad you have to quit in the middle of the Olympics, but then come back two days later? Sorry, that just would not make sense.
I've been pretty active in this thread and haven't really seen anyone say this.
She is not competing in the individual competition.
How is it different? She was fine cashing the checks when nobody could touch her, but after the first loss she took a year off the sport. She came back expecting to beat Amanda Nunes and got crushed again and never fought again. Everyone else in her division (Tate, Holm, etc.) deals with losses because they are competitors. Rousey was a perfectionist, not a competitor. All she was chasing was perfection, and when that was out the window, she would rather just leave than continue to battle.
I saw more coverage of Biles last night and I don't think there's much argument against pulling out of the competition. She was a danger to herself and a liability for her team. However, I take issue with calling her "strong" or "brave" as a result, because she is the one putting "the weight of the world" on her own shoulders.
Someone needs to remind these athletes that they are some of the luckiest people in the world, paid millions of dollars to pursue their dreams every day. If they can't do that without sacrificing their "mental wellness" then they should retire and enjoy a normal life. The issue to me is not the decision she made this week, but the fact that she's literally been driving herself crazy for years and nobody seemed to care until it broke her.
The comparison didn’t make sense to me because Simone’s problem appears to be the mental pressures while she was up at the top with the physical skills. With Rousey, seems like any mental pressures or self doubts would have been because of the main problem, she didn’t have the skills and was literally getting killed in the ring.
Who was better? Break it down for us.
Perhaps you could enlist Zelda for help.
Also, not an amateur.
IMO, this puts her at the bottom of Olympic All-Around Gold medalists and above all those without AR gold medals. What happened to celebrating greatness, overcoming adversity, fighting through obstacles?!?!?
if what Biles did is brave and courageous, I am a full-fledged dragon slayer for quitting golf! Wait, I didn’t quit. I opted out, or something.
Bottom line, I recognized my limitations and did something about it. I let me take care of me. I faced my demons. And, most importantly, I am now living my best life
Also, not an amateur.
IMO, this puts her at the bottom of Olympic All-Around Gold medalists and above all those without AR gold medals. What happened to celebrating greatness, overcoming adversity, fighting through obstacles?!?!?
if what Biles did is brave and courageous, I am a full-fledged dragon slayer for quitting golf! Wait, I didn’t quit. I opted out, or something.
Bottom line, I recognized my limitations and did something about it. I let me take care of me. I faced my demons. And, most importantly, I am now living my best life
Do you think winning medals on broken toes or with kidney stones while facing sexual abuse at the hands of USAG doesn't qualify as overcoming adversity or fighting through obstacles?
Again, if she sits out the individuals, well the takes questioning here look silly. If she doesn't, well then there should be questions. I like Peet Weet's take. "Celebrate? No." "Empathize? Yes."
One of the dumber threads in Pantherlair history.
Congratulations on lowering the bar everyone.
Just another manifestation that our society is plummeting into oblivion.
Congratulations on lowering the bar everyone.
Just another manifestation that our society is plummeting into oblivion.
Of course they do. Of course she has had an amazing career full of insane accomplishments. She also cracked on the biggest stage. All of this can be true.
My problem with this....and it goes beyond Biles, is so many of these athletes want the love, the attention (THE MONEY), the brand................until they don't.
You can't have it on and off at your convenience.
I mean, I empathize with mental issues, most us probably suffer in some forms at time to time, most of us don't seek help and fight through and in some cases that is not always the right thing to do. Getting help is.
But also, most of us don't rely on being on point, in front of millions, getting millions, and if it is too much, it is okay to step down and just go into regular folk lifestyle.
You can't have it on and off at your convenience.
I mean, I empathize with mental issues, most us probably suffer in some forms at time to time, most of us don't seek help and fight through and in some cases that is not always the right thing to do. Getting help is.
But also, most of us don't rely on being on point, in front of millions, getting millions, and if it is too much, it is okay to step down and just go into regular folk lifestyle.
Or is the reality somewhere between those two positions? I tend to agree with points made by both posters.
With all due respect to Biles, who has earned massive respect over her career, I personally don't believe that sports performance anxiety is a mental health issue akin to clinical depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, OCD, bipolar etc. There's still such a thing as choking under pressure, it's as old as time and to me that doesn't qualify as a "mental health issue", or at the very least if it does, it cheapens the definition that is typically reserved for more serious mental health issues.
The gray area here is that Biles was "off" all week in practice and the qualifiers. In her line of work if you lose your ability to focus you can end up in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. So in my mind if she pulled herself because she felt she was at high risk for injury due to her mind not being right for the task at hand, that's another matter altogether and not indicia of a mental health issue. That said, can anyone ever remember a similar situation in Olympic competition, where an athlete withdrew due to the intense mental pressure that goes along with being the best in the world and the expectation that you will win every event you compete in? I cannot. I mean, one of the biggest aspects of being the best at something is being able to perform under that type of pressure, the pressure that goes along with expectations and having the whole world's target on your back. So if you can't perform under that pressure, are you really the best, or are you maybe just the most talented? There is a difference.
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Eric Heiden won five gold medals in speed skating in the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid, NY. He soon after finished second in a race and retired from the sport. Is it OK to consider him the GOAT even though he didn't bother defending his titles in Sarajevo in 1984?
if it is ok to heap praises on when she does well or is expected to do well then it is ok to be critical when she clearly failed.
Seriously - It’s ok to say she failed. we all have. Because she did … regardless of injury or mental health.
I mean does she get an Olympic participation trophy? That’s the argument. She is clearly a top shelf athlete who is feeling the pressure That was put on her externally and she couldn’t take it. It’s OK to say it. There’s nothing wrong with the truth even if it doesn’t fit into the social affirmations of the day.
Seriously - It’s ok to say she failed. we all have. Because she did … regardless of injury or mental health.
I mean does she get an Olympic participation trophy? That’s the argument. She is clearly a top shelf athlete who is feeling the pressure That was put on her externally and she couldn’t take it. It’s OK to say it. There’s nothing wrong with the truth even if it doesn’t fit into the social affirmations of the day.
Biles did an interview days before she withdrew from this competition in which she said speaking out against sexual abuse and empowering victims will be her biggest accomplishment. They talked about Larry Nasser and other things gymnasts had to endure. The interview caught my eye and you got the vibe she was mentally checked out at that point. I wish nothing but the best for her and the other victims of abuse.
In addition to the Nassar abuse, how about the emotional and physical abuse these girls suffered for years while training at the Karolyi ranch? Brutal. Let's put a coach who honed his methods and philosophies while overseeing the national gymnastics program of an Eastern Bloc communist dictatorship--what could possibly go wrong?
If i had a choice between having a happy, well-adjusted child who was not even a decent backyard athlete, or a child who was an elite athlete and was subjected to massive stress and pressure 365 days a year from an early age, I would choose the former 200% of the time.
The fact you pull up old posts either proves you are somewhat in need of help or have a lot of time on your hands…
but aside from that I think numerous people have discussed the differences between true team sports and individuals…. Soooooo?
