You must have missed Letang in that second Philly game
OT: Pens
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
Totally agree. When Lemieux wanted to play defense, he was as good as there was.
All season long, he would play from Blueline forward. In the playoffs, he played the entire ice.
When did they play Philly to win the cup?
Oh right - never. They can’t even play Philly for the cup.
I don’t think Sid could be quite on Mario’s level on D either. Mario’s reach alone was crazy. But he’s way more than capable if called upon.
Agree to disagree. I am not saying they want the glory or the point associated with the empty net goal, I am saying they would attempt the perfect play to end the game rather than make the smart and safe play to not turn it over.
Well again - in some cases I agree. Regular season for certain. Game 2 against the islanders - yea I can see that maybe. But playoff hockey (or any sport) is pretty different and I’d still want them out there. But to clinch game 4 for the cup? Don’t think so.
Letang was on the ice for all five goals in this years second Philly game.
I was not specifically talking of winning the cup there. I was talking about you wanting him on the ice with a chance to win a cup deciding game if we could get to that in the future.
A no brainer to have him on the ice (at this point in his career) with 30 seconds to go to win a Cup? In the yearbook he is listed as "most likely to turn it over". A no brainer indeed.
He’s not the same player to be absolutely certain but he’s likely still the best D man they have. He actually plays too many minutes and probably always has.
JD said this of Sid : He’s a good, borderline elite faceoff man, he can dig in the corners and be physical and if he pins the puck along the wall you aren’t getting it off of him. I’d say that qualifies him to be on the ice in the situation you laid out.
That is absolutely correct and if Crosby was not likely to attempt something outside that, I would be in absolute agreement.
Unfortunately, I think often acts outside those attributes.
He will anticipate where he thinks the puck is going. He will attempt a “dangerous” pass or clearing attempt. He will assume he is strong enough to ward off a check. He will abandon his defensive responsibility if he thinks he can win a race for a loose puck.
He has done all of the above at various times.
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He does. There’s no question. I wasn’t questioning that totally. You’re correct. But my belief is that in the situation you laid out he wouldn’t act outside of that.
Bottom line for me - I’m riding with my best players. I certainly understand there are role players and some guys might have specialties. But when it’s all on the line I’m living and dying with any studs I have on my squad.
He’s arguably the winningest player in pen history and that goof ball wants him on the bench
Despite every single coach at every single level playing him and him delivering
Fair enough.
You brought up Lemieux. Would you agree that Mario was much less likely to turn it over than any of Letang, Malkin or Sid?
That was the point. You’ll always hear people on talk shows and on the lair ranting about how much someone sucks and that they are overpaid, and that we should trade him for some major haul.
Another classic is “Mike Tomlin sucks, his teams are never prepared, their undisciplined, and he never wins the big games. We should trade him for a number 1 pick, and a starting OL.”
THEY WERE TIED!! THEY ARE TRYING TO WIN THE GAME!! Sid is not some freeloading, cherry picking, just worry about my stats player. Never, ever was. Ever.
Your POV is horrible. I am sorry. Hockey was almost killed by the mentality you are exhibiting, the silence skill with those who have none and take no chances. That was hockey in the late 90's, early 2000's. It sucked. It was boring.
Sid is 3 times the guy on faceoffs. Sid. He's the guy. Wingers? Probably Rust and Tanev. Marino and Dumo on defense. If you are going with our best overall defensive players.
I know a guy...........
Jim Rutherford calling Jim Rutherford:
"Hey Jim, I hear you are interested in trading Geno Malkin. I am looking for a dependable 3rd line Center. I will give you Samuel Poulin, and 22 and 23's 1st rd picks? Whaddaya think? Need me to throw in one of the two goalies we drafted this year too? Just to sweeten the deal??"
Jim Rutherford answering Jim Rutherford:
"I'll take that deal!"
Everyone blasts Jim Rutherford but Ray Shearo had Crosby and Malkin in their prime and pretty much whizzed the opportunity away after 2009. People discredit how JR came in and cleaned up that mess. James Neil for Patrick Hornqudist took guts and we saw how that played out.
It is going to be very interesting to see how people evaluate GMJR's time as GM. He provided Two cups back to back. In his quest to get a third, he has mortgaged the clubs future with little to show for it. He has been a smashing success, and a resounding failure all wrapped up in a relatively short time frame.
He will go down as a true enigma. He will be credited with making moves like Hornquist and Kessel and led to those two cups. He will also be forever known as the person responsible for leaving the cupboard bare and trading away first round picks like they were penny candy.
This absolutely has to be his last hurrah. I still think the Pens playoff window will be open for a few years, but Mario and Morehouse are not idiots. They realize that the time to start planning for the future is starting this offseason. That means absolutely no more trading away future draft assets. The 2022 draft is apparently one of those generational-type drafts with the kid Matthew Wright apparently in the McDavid tier. There are plenty of other top level prospects. The 2021 is not a great draft so not having a first isn’t the end of the world especially if the Pens can continue to land a few post-draft and college free agents. JR proved in Carolina that he doesn’t have the patience for a rebuild. Time to take the keys away and give him his gold watch for a job well done.
I am absolutely okay with "mortgaging the future" to win Cups, provided you win Cups. And they won 2, Back to Back which is really hard to do. But I also want a GM to recognize "when". When it is time to do this, and when it is not. We maybe at this time. We maybe at this time, where you change on the fly, trade Malkin and Letang for some new blood, get younger not just on the ice, but in the room. And with hindsight, this likely should have happened after the 2018 season (Caps playoff loss).
And my displeasure with Rutherford, is he just throws away picks and prospects like they are dimes. He has basically overpaid in every trade since he worked his magic 3-4 years ago. The only trade he hasn't was the Marino steal.
That's exactly it. If I am Mario, I tell Rutherford, that the 2022 pick right now is absolutely untouchable, don't even think of it. 2021 is not that great of a draft, but our pick could be a lottery pick. What is sad, is 2020 draft was a very good pick, and we had the 15th pick, and we traded not just it for Kasperi Kapenen, but also a prospect. A guy Toronto was looking to unload for cap reasons. And we not only gave them an out, we enriched them with a top 15 pick.
A couple of things here.
MAF in 2010 and 2012 was horrific in the playoffs. No way should have they lost to Montreal. He completely blew up those last 2 games after we had a 3-2 lead. In 2012, the Philly series debacle, MAF's save percentage was close to .800. That is obscenely bad. Sure defense wasn't good, but he didn't stop a beach ball.
In 2011 the played the playoffs without Sid and Geno.
Shero's biggest issue IMO was not recognizing when Disco Dan couldn't make adjustments and matchups and it showed up every April-May after that.
The entire team collapsed in that MTL series. 2012 against Philadelphia was disgusting. And while Fleury blew he was the MVP against Detroit in 2009. The failure to capitalize on that team was and is an aberration.
His POV is the ultimate "play to not lose" kind of mentality. He probably can't understand why anyone is criticizing Mike Tomlin for that punt on 4th and 1 last week. Because it was the "safe" play. So how can anyone think that it was wrong?
At the end of the game I want my guys out there doing everything they can to try to win the game, not just to try to get the game over with. If you are coaching the Penguins and you can't or don't trust Sidney Crosby to try to win you a game then you are in the wrong profession.
There was an old Canadian coach named Dave King. He was king of the "role player/defense" type of mentality. That one giveaway in the neutral zone outweighted say 2 goals and an assist in his mind. He was also coach of the Canadian Jr team when Lemieux last was eligible (18). Lemieux refused to play for King (and therefore Canada) which caused him alot of stress with the Anglican Canadian media. Lemieux cited playing for Dave King as the reason.
Pens comeback OT win, Pitt beats Duke. Great night!
Yes, really nice win for Pitt basketball and really nice comeback win for the Pens .......
- DeSmith had a tough night in goal for the first half of the game (4 goals against) but after that he shut the Caps down and in the 2nd period, he made not one but two GREAT plays that turned the game around ...... 1st, DeSmith stopped a Caps 3 on 0 rush to keep the Caps from extending their 4-2 lead, and then with the Caps on a 5 on 3 power play, DeSmith shot a pass out the middle of the zone into the neutral zone right to Blueger who went in on a breakaway for a shorthanded goal to cut the lead to 4-3 (so instead of 5-2 it was 4-3)...... Malkin got a PP goal late in the 2nd period to tie it 4-4 and Crosby won it 5-4 in OT with a nice goal off a rebound by the Caps goalie on a shot from the point by Letang.
- The Pens played the entire third period and OT with 4 defensemen (Pettersson and Riikola got hurt and couldn't play after the 2nd period) ...... great effort by Letang, Dumoulin, Marino, and Ruhwedel.
- Kapanen looked good playing on the 4th line after just one practice ...... you can see there is some combination of speed, talent, along with some physicality and looks to be a smart/good player in all three zones ...... had an assist tonight ..... suspect he will be on the first line soon enough and hopefully is a significant help there.
- Will have to see how bad the injuries are to the defensemen and if someone from the practice squad is called up to play ..... will also be interesting to see which goalie starts in the next game and if it's Jarry whether his time with the goalie coach helped.
Any chance one of those defensemen are Olivier-Joseph? I’ve anxious to see him debut but still have doubts if he’s physically ready for the NHL.
The Pens could re-insert Ceci back in the lineup or call up P-O Joseph and/or Kevin Czuczman (both are left handed) from the taxi squad as needed ...... Ceci is right handed but has more experience and all the injured players are left handed so will have to wait and see who is available to play and see who Sullivan decides to put in the lineup ..... will be an interesting few days until the next game Friday.
What a great night for 412 sports!! That was a fantastic win. I don't think the Pens could have played a worse first period. Unbelievable.
Then in the second period......a three on zero break against........my jaw dropped. But Smith came up huge and didn't overreact and made the save.
That 3-5 shorty goal may end up being one of the plays of the year if you look back on it. That was just unbelievable. Then Geno with the one timer!! Geno joins the party after me bitching at him for the first period and a half.
Playing with 4 Dmen, may have actually simplified their game and the Pens responded well. Which scares me, because they do this all the time over the past few years. They get decimated by injuries, then they play a solid structured, less risky game, and they reel off wins, then get everybody back and lose that focus and tank.
OT was vintage Sid, and Letang hits the net. Great win.
As an aside, can we please get the King Of Staten Island off of Sid's line now? Kapenen showed he has the pedigree there. Also good game by Jake which was great to see.
Then in the second period......a three on zero break against........my jaw dropped. But Smith came up huge and didn't overreact and made the save.
That 3-5 shorty goal may end up being one of the plays of the year if you look back on it. That was just unbelievable. Then Geno with the one timer!! Geno joins the party after me bitching at him for the first period and a half.
Playing with 4 Dmen, may have actually simplified their game and the Pens responded well. Which scares me, because they do this all the time over the past few years. They get decimated by injuries, then they play a solid structured, less risky game, and they reel off wins, then get everybody back and lose that focus and tank.
OT was vintage Sid, and Letang hits the net. Great win.
As an aside, can we please get the King Of Staten Island off of Sid's line now? Kapenen showed he has the pedigree there. Also good game by Jake which was great to see.
Having Rodrigues on Sid’s line is almost like toying with Crosby. In what universe does anyone think that guy is a first line winger? I get it, Crosby can elevate a chipmunk. That doesn’t mean he should have to.
Am I correct in thinking that the Pens OT play in these 2 Capitals games was way better than any of their OT play all last year.
Seems to be a greater emphasis on controlling possession of the puck.
Seems to be a greater emphasis on controlling possession of the puck.
I was thinking the same thing, but I was also struck by how poor Washington played both OTs. They were not dangerous at all.
