OT: Pens

[USN_Panther]

Yeah, that is why I don't get playing that from a shot that is far out. Because they aren't deking or trying a wrap around, I would think anywhere outside of the circles, the goalie should be "big" and on angle and basically give nothing to shoot at. Now they may try and shoot at your pads or a deflection, but so be it. Don't let a puck beat you clean.

The rVH stands for "Reverse vertical horizontal" and pertains to the pad position. The earlier version was VH which was post pad vertical and opposite pad horizontal.

I stay high with the puck carrier along the line towards the boards if they are uncontested by the defence. Here the immediate danger is the puck carrier skating toward the net down the line, opening up more net by curling back up. I like to be able to push out and cut down angle in that situation if the skater does try to open up net by curling up high. If the player in the corner is defended in a way to not get a free skating path to the net, I will then go rVH as the most immediate threat is the shot at the short side, with secondary threat the pass to the slot. With the pass, I will push off the post to cut down angle and get up on my skates. Any pass to low slot in or near the crease I can usually block and cover when in rVH.

Now your comment on just liking to beat goalies, if you still were playing it would behoove you to learn a bit about goalie play. That makes you a more effective scorer. I tell the youth players this all the time. If I am out in goalie gear for stick and puck public sessions, I work with the youngsters in showing them where the goalie is vulnerable in certain game situations. So many young players want to skate around everyone before they will shoot. When in between the faceoff dots and high, a non-interfering defender is the enemy of the goalie. I tell the youngsters to shoot that puck. If the goalie doesn't see it come off the stick, they will have difficulty tracking. In those settings, the goalie might make the save but will have trouble controlling the rebound. The skater then has the advantage over the defender as they can see the puck and are skating with speed. The defender has to turn to find the puck. This turns into chaos and if there is a trailer, it ends up in the net many times. Likewise, the puck carrier along the goal line at the boards can place pressure on the goalie if the defence allows them to skate toward the net. I tell the youngsters to skate that if it is there. Their linemates then need to understand how to get into position where they can receive a pass and shoot to the far side of the net. So the skater pins the goalie to the post and the pass then exposes the far post. Then these kids use this stuff against me in drop in and it pisses me off. But it is about everyone getting better and as much as I hate picking the puck out of the net, I love seeing young players learning how to play the game smart. It's not all about dekes and dangles.

 

[HOF Coach]

 

[USN_Panther]

Agree, both goalies were excellent in last night's game ......

Varlamov did make a technical error on the OT goal by Marchand which led to the score, however, it was a perfect shot by Marchand that beat Varlamov (it hit up high where the crossbar meets the far post and deflected into the goal) .......

If anyone can tell me what technical mistake that Varlamov made on the play that led to the goal, you get bonus points ...... check the highlight video of the game below ...... the play starts at the 8:20 mark and the best view of the mistake Varlamov made can be seen from the 8:49 mark to the 8:52 mark (start and stop the play at the 8:49 mark) ......

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Goalie's pad is outside the net and he is too far on/past the post. Not square to the shooter. Glove down and back. That glove needs to be out in front of him. Granted, he wasn't stationary covering the post. That was a quickly evolving situation. I thought the defender on the skater needed to be more aggressive there. He had backside help so the only play was the shot. He gave space and time for an aimed shot and Marchand hit it.

 

[goalieman]

The rVH stands for "Reverse vertical horizontal" and pertains to the pad position. The earlier version was VH which was post pad vertical and opposite pad horizontal.

I stay high with the puck carrier along the line towards the boards if they are uncontested by the defence. Here the immediate danger is the puck carrier skating toward the net down the line, opening up more net by curling back up. I like to be able to push out and cut down angle in that situation if the skater does try to open up net by curling up high. If the player in the corner is defended in a way to not get a free skating path to the net, I will then go rVH as the most immediate threat is the shot at the short side, with secondary threat the pass to the slot. With the pass, I will push off the post to cut down angle and get up on my skates. Any pass to low slot in or near the crease I can usually block and cover when in rVH.

Now your comment on just liking to beat goalies, if you still were playing it would behoove you to learn a bit about goalie play. That makes you a more effective scorer. I tell the youth players this all the time. If I am out in goalie gear for stick and puck public sessions, I work with the youngsters in showing them where the goalie is vulnerable in certain game situations. So many young players want to skate around everyone before they will shoot. When in between the faceoff dots and high, a non-interfering defender is the enemy of the goalie. I tell the youngsters to shoot that puck. If the goalie doesn't see it come off the stick, they will have difficulty tracking. In those settings, the goalie might make the save but will have trouble controlling the rebound. The skater then has the advantage over the defender as they can see the puck and are skating with speed. The defender has to turn to find the puck. This turns into chaos and if there is a trailer, it ends up in the net many times. Likewise, the puck carrier along the goal line at the boards can place pressure on the goalie if the defence allows them to skate toward the net. I tell the youngsters to skate that if it is there. Their linemates then need to understand how to get into position where they can receive a pass and shoot to the far side of the net. So the skater pins the goalie to the post and the pass then exposes the far post. Then these kids use this stuff against me in drop in and it pisses me off. But it is about everyone getting better and as much as I hate picking the puck out of the net, I love seeing young players learning how to play the game smart. It's not all about dekes and dangles.

Very good post !! ...... Summarizes a lot of how I think of those situations ...... different goalies will differ in their philosophy of when they use the rVH position ....... I think some goalies go into the rVH position too often and too early including Jarry who often seems to default to that position (and as I have stated in the past, he doesn't play that position real well, something for him to work on) ...... I'm amazed when shooters carry the puck down the goal line toward the goalie and then skate away from the goal line toward the slot (thus changing the angle), how many goalies (even NHL goalies) stay in the rVH on the post too long or slide straight across deep along the goal line and get beaten, instead of coming out off the post toward the puck to cut down the angle and in some instances bring possible poke checks into play .......

Talking about skaters learning about goalie play helping them be better scorers, one of my sons was a goalie for many years in amateur hockey but now plays center for fun in adult leagues ....... he was always a very good skater but never played forward and thus didn't have the skills needed at that position so I didn't think he would do very well but he told me that he scores a lot of goals because he knows what the goalies are going to do and how they will move in every situation and he knows their strengths and weakness and after he sees a goalie play a little while, he knows what the best way to score on them is and thus so do his teammates.

 

[USN_Panther]

Very good post !! ...... Summarizes a lot of how I think of those situations ...... different goalies will differ in their philosophy of when they use the rVH position ....... I think some goalies go into the rVH position too often and too early including Jarry who often seems to default to that position (and as I have stated in the past, he doesn't play that position real well, something for him to work on) ...... I'm amazed when shooters carry the puck down the goal line toward the goalie and then skate away from the goal line toward the slot (thus changing the angle), how many goalies (even NHL goalies) stay in the rVH on the post too long or slide straight across deep along the goal line and get beaten, instead of coming out off the post toward the puck to cut down the angle and in some instances bring possible poke checks into play .......

Talking about skaters learning about goalie play helping them be better scorers, one of my sons was a goalie for many years in amateur hockey but now plays center for fun in adult leagues ....... he was always a very good skater but never played forward and thus didn't have the skills needed at that position so I didn't think he would do very well but he told me that he scores a lot of goals because he knows what the goalies are going to do and how they will move in every situation and he knows their strengths and weakness and after he sees a goalie play a little while, he knows what the best way to score on them is and thus so do his teammates.

I love your goalie posts. I learn heaps from them. Having a great season so far. I'm 7-1 with 1.6 GAA currently. Team is playing well in front of me and mostly leaving me with easily managed shots. They're really good in our own zone, so hardly any dangerous shots from set offense unless on the PK. I see most of the shots in transition, but good backchecking allows me to challenge the shots and play big. Really fun team to play for. Even the newbies and less skilled players play hard and smart. They make mistakes but they skate hard and listen and learn. Can't wait to play tomorrow night.

 

[goalieman]

Goalie's pad is outside the net and he is too far on/past the post. Not square to the shooter. Glove down and back. That glove needs to be out in front of him. Granted, he wasn't stationary covering the post. That was a quickly evolving situation. I thought the defender on the skater needed to be more aggressive there. He had backside help so the only play was the shot. He gave space and time for an aimed shot and Marchand hit it.

Another excellent post ....... agree, Pageau could have been more aggressive on Marchand and the defenseman got caught in no man's land and could also been more aggressive as well as Boston was changing up behind the play and he may have even screened the goalie slightly (not sure) ....... I thought the main problem was that the goalie's right pad (horizontal pad on the ice) was not in proper position ..... as you well know, on the horizontal pad, you can seal that leg on the post with the toe cap of the skate, the skate blade, or the bottom of that pad (in which case the skate is slightly inside the post), but Varlamov's right skate and horizontal pad were about a foot and a half outside the post and behind the goal line which meant the right side of his body was covering the outside of the net where you couldn't score anyways and it made him vulnerable to the far post (he essentially had "over slid" the play and left an opening to the far post) ...... if his toe cap or skate or bottom of the pad were on the post he would have had the far post better covered and with the trajectory of the puck on the shot, it probably hits him in the left upper chest ...... of course, the shot by Marchand was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in that situation !

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The rVH stands for "Reverse vertical horizontal" and pertains to the pad position. The earlier version was VH which was post pad vertical and opposite pad horizontal.

I stay high with the puck carrier along the line towards the boards if they are uncontested by the defence. Here the immediate danger is the puck carrier skating toward the net down the line, opening up more net by curling back up. I like to be able to push out and cut down angle in that situation if the skater does try to open up net by curling up high. If the player in the corner is defended in a way to not get a free skating path to the net, I will then go rVH as the most immediate threat is the shot at the short side, with secondary threat the pass to the slot. With the pass, I will push off the post to cut down angle and get up on my skates. Any pass to low slot in or near the crease I can usually block and cover when in rVH.

Now your comment on just liking to beat goalies, if you still were playing it would behoove you to learn a bit about goalie play. That makes you a more effective scorer. I tell the youth players this all the time. If I am out in goalie gear for stick and puck public sessions, I work with the youngsters in showing them where the goalie is vulnerable in certain game situations. So many young players want to skate around everyone before they will shoot. When in between the faceoff dots and high, a non-interfering defender is the enemy of the goalie. I tell the youngsters to shoot that puck. If the goalie doesn't see it come off the stick, they will have difficulty tracking. In those settings, the goalie might make the save but will have trouble controlling the rebound. The skater then has the advantage over the defender as they can see the puck and are skating with speed. The defender has to turn to find the puck. This turns into chaos and if there is a trailer, it ends up in the net many times. Likewise, the puck carrier along the goal line at the boards can place pressure on the goalie if the defence allows them to skate toward the net. I tell the youngsters to skate that if it is there. Their linemates then need to understand how to get into position where they can receive a pass and shoot to the far side of the net. So the skater pins the goalie to the post and the pass then exposes the far post. Then these kids use this stuff against me in drop in and it pisses me off. But it is about everyone getting better and as much as I hate picking the puck out of the net, I love seeing young players learning how to play the game smart. It's not all about dekes and dangles.

Dude....I am in my 50's. I played adult rec and deck leagues. I have no need to study goalie habits now. I had hands, and a shot (actually my shot sucked but had a quick release) and had that "feel"...........I could elevate the puck which was a big thing, I also had a backhand (born out of the fact when I first started to play my parents assumed I was a right handed shot I was not, a lefty like many, and therefore had to go backhand as a 10 year old because my curve was the wrong way LOL).

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Another excellent post ....... agree, Pageau could have been more aggressive on Marchand and the defenseman got caught in no man's land and could also been more aggressive as well as Boston was changing up behind the play and he may have even screened the goalie slightly (not sure) ....... I thought the main problem was that the goalie's right pad (horizontal pad on the ice) was not in proper position ..... as you well know, on the horizontal pad, you can seal that leg on the post with the toe cap of the skate, the skate blade, or the bottom of that pad (in which case the skate is slightly inside the post), but Varlamov's right skate and horizontal pad were about a foot and a half outside the post and behind the goal line which meant the right side of his body was covering the outside of the net where you couldn't score anyways and it made him vulnerable to the far post (he essentially had "over slid" the play and left an opening to the far post) ...... if his toe cap or skate or bottom of the pad were on the post he would have had the far post better covered and with the trajectory of the puck on the shot, it probably hits him in the left upper chest ...... of course, the shot by Marchand was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT in that situation !

Guys. While I appreciate your posts, you kind of take this too far. I mean, playing hockey is a dynamic, reactive, action sport where you have to make split second decisions at the spur of the moment. The reason why I am saying this, you guys are parsing every movement and position of the goalie, let's bring this to Pro Golf. The very best. Not a dynamic environment, not needing to make split second decisions and adjustments, it is all repetition. And the very best, STILL MISS THEIR MARK many times and shank it in the trees, or over the green or in the water. So it is really hard to be critical of every goal a pro goalie gives up because you know, we ain't robots.

 

[HOF Coach]

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[USN_Panther]

Dude....I am in my 50's. I played adult rec and deck leagues. I have no need to study goalie habits now. I had hands, and a shot (actually my shot sucked but had a quick release) and had that "feel"...........I could elevate the puck which was a big thing, I also had a backhand (born out of the fact when I first started to play my parents assumed I was a right handed shot I was not, a lefty like many, and therefore had to go backhand as a 10 year old because my curve was the wrong way LOL).

You'll need to up your game to beat me!

I am also in my 50s, and play in a league with mostly 20-30 year olds. I have to be technical, precise and crafty because I can't hang on athleticism any more. Just curious, is there much Masters age grade hockey available in Pittsburgh? We don't have enough old people for a full league, but we do play some drop-in Masters which is good fun. Our club hosts a national Masters tournament every year which usually gets 12-14 teams. Pre-Covid we would have a team or two from Aussie and 3 years ago had a team from Yukon travel over. They didn't have a goalie so I played for them. They were great fun.

 

[USN_Panther]

Guys. While I appreciate your posts, you kind of take this too far. I mean, playing hockey is a dynamic, reactive, action sport where you have to make split second decisions at the spur of the moment. The reason why I am saying this, you guys are parsing every movement and position of the goalie, let's bring this to Pro Golf. The very best. Not a dynamic environment, not needing to make split second decisions and adjustments, it is all repetition. And the very best, STILL MISS THEIR MARK many times and shank it in the trees, or over the green or in the water. So it is really hard to be critical of every goal a pro goalie gives up because you know, we ain't robots.

To be fair, you did ask why the goalie wouldn't be on their skates there.... The answer to that question is pretty technical, actually.

And you are correct, hockey is a fast moving game requiring split second decisions. But many goals do come down to basic fundamentals and good players put mistakes like those in the net. That's what makes it so beautiful.

 

[goalieman]

Guys. While I appreciate your posts, you kind of take this too far. I mean, playing hockey is a dynamic, reactive, action sport where you have to make split second decisions at the spur of the moment. The reason why I am saying this, you guys are parsing every movement and position of the goalie, let's bring this to Pro Golf. The very best. Not a dynamic environment, not needing to make split second decisions and adjustments, it is all repetition. And the very best, STILL MISS THEIR MARK many times and shank it in the trees, or over the green or in the water. So it is really hard to be critical of every goal a pro goalie gives up because you know, we ain't robots.

You and I have been talking hockey on this site for nearly two decades and I think there is a mutual respect (I know there is from my side) ..... but you did bring up that OT goal scored by Boston and said it was a bad goalie play and you didn't see it coming ...... I just eventually gave a more detailed explanation from the goalie standpoint what happened on the play.

Then you asked me a good question about why goalies use the rVH vs just standing up on the post ...... I answered the best I could (hopefully it was understandable, if not, I apologize) ...... but it wasn't a yes/no answer, it required some detail.

Then USN_Panther and I had some back and forth about rVH, that goal, and some other aspects of goaltending that many may not have found interesting.

Like USN_Panther said, the game is fast and the goalie has to make quick decisions many times almost reflexively ...... I don't think that I blame the goalie or criticize every goal that is scored but many goals are scored because the goalie gets behind on a play and is off angle or out of position and many are scored because of errors in technique/fundamentals ...... sometimes the goalie is beaten by a good shot or just didn't have time to get to the best position and couldn't have done anything better ....... when I analyze a goal from the goalies standpoint, I take all that into consideration ....... I can tell you that NHL goalies and their goalie coaches analyze video and have similar discussions to what we are talking about on here and that is how even NHL goalies learn and get better ....... Varlamov was excellent in that game but was beaten in OT because he made a mistake in basic technique and Marchand made him pay for it with a great shot ....... there is often a fine line in hockey between a goal or not and thus a win or loss, and if you are a goalie, you better be technically sound.

 

[USN_Panther]

You and I have been talking hockey on this site for nearly two decades and I think there is a mutual respect (I know there is from my side) ..... but you did bring up that OT goal scored by Boston and said it was a bad goalie play and you didn't see it coming ...... I just eventually gave a more detailed explanation from the goalie standpoint what happened on the play.

Then you asked me a good question about why goalies use the rVH vs just standing up on the post ...... I answered the best I could (hopefully it was understandable, if not, I apologize) ...... but it wasn't a yes/no answer, it required some detail.

Then USN_Panther and I had some back and forth about rVH, that goal, and some other aspects of goaltending that many may not have found interesting.

Like USN_Panther said, the game is fast and the goalie has to make quick decisions many times almost reflexively ...... I don't think that I blame the goalie or criticize every goal that is scored but many goals are scored because the goalie gets behind on a play and is off angle or out of position and many are scored because of errors in technique/fundamentals ...... sometimes the goalie is beaten by a good shot or just didn't have time to get to the best position and couldn't have done anything better ....... when I analyze a goal from the goalies standpoint, I take all that into consideration ....... I can tell you that NHL goalies and their goalie coaches analyze video and have similar discussions to what we are talking about on here and that is how even NHL goalies learn and get better ....... Varlamov was excellent in that game but was beaten in OT because he made a mistake in basic technique and Marchand made him pay for it with a great shot ....... there is often a fine line in hockey between a goal or not and thus a win or loss, and if you are a goalie, you better be technically sound.

Haha. I analyse video of goals and saves in Beer League. Our club has a goalie coach and we work on positioning and stance and fundamentals all the time.

The Vegas-Colorado game had a perfect example of poor fundamentals/lack of concentration of the second Vegas goal. The Avs goalie didn't cover post with the puck behind the line just off to the side of the cage. The player shot it off the goalie and scored. That is where rVH covers post and allows the goalie to see the scoring threats. That goal changed everything and may have shifted the series. It was looking like Avs would be up 3-0, and now it is 2-1. That was a big point of that game and series.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Haha. I analyse video of goals and saves in Beer League. Our club has a goalie coach and we work on positioning and stance and fundamentals all the time.

The Vegas-Colorado game had a perfect example of poor fundamentals/lack of concentration of the second Vegas goal. The Avs goalie didn't cover post with the puck behind the line just off to the side of the cage. The player shot it off the goalie and scored. That is where rVH covers post and allows the goalie to see the scoring threats. That goal changed everything and may have shifted the series. It was looking like Avs would be up 3-0, and now it is 2-1. That was a big point of that game and series.

I am just saying, average save percentage in the playoffs is what? .915 I think is the median?? Meaning 9 out of 100 shots goes in. Now we know goalies are beaten but the shot, and often a much better shot hits to post or crossbar than one that hits the goalies body. And they don't register as either a save or a goal. My point is, no one is perfect. And sometimes, an Ovi, a Sid, Mario, Bossy, Gretzky, just are better and you have to give "something" and the very best either finds that or in the case of Ovi, even overpowers. Sometimes there is nothing a goalie can do better.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Haha. I analyse video of goals and saves in Beer League. Our club has a goalie coach and we work on positioning and stance and fundamentals all the time.

The Vegas-Colorado game had a perfect example of poor fundamentals/lack of concentration of the second Vegas goal. The Avs goalie didn't cover post with the puck behind the line just off to the side of the cage. The player shot it off the goalie and scored. That is where rVH covers post and allows the goalie to see the scoring threats. That goal changed everything and may have shifted the series. It was looking like Avs would be up 3-0, and now it is 2-1. That was a big point of that game and series.

The Avs goalie had just made the save on the 1st shot attempt, a good save IMO. He didn’t have a whole lot of time to get back into rVH position when the guy flipped it back off his back and into the net.

I thought it was more a great play by the VGK than a flub by the goalie.

 

[goalieman]

Sometimes there is nothing a goalie can do better.

Correct, and if you look at my post above, I said exactly that ....... also, in multiple posts that I made regarding the goals Jarry gave up in the recent playoff series, I noted many that he could not have done anything better to save ..... in fact, there were two games where he gave up 4 goals in each and I noted that there were only two of those 8 that he could have done something better to make the save and that because of that he actually played pretty well in those games, so I really don't blame nor am I critical of every goal the goalie gives up but do note if they could have played it better .... every goalie makes mistakes but it is figuring out what those mistakes are that ultimately leads them to get better .... and video analysis by the goalie and his coach are a big part of that.

In any event, the goal we were talking about was the Marchand goal in OT against Varlamov and Marchand made a great shot to beat him as already noted but Varlomov made a big mistake in technique that left him vulnerable with some open net high to the far post and if he did not make that mistake in basic technique, that "perfect" shot would have hit the goalie in the chest and been a save ....... and another big point is that Varlamov had plenty of time to get in proper position to make the save on that play ..... so yes he could have played that particular goal much better ...... that is all we were saying (in a highly technical way).

 

[USN_Panther]

The Avs goalie had just made the save on the 1st shot attempt, a good save IMO. He didn’t have a whole lot of time to get back into rVH position when the guy flipped it back off his back and into the net.

I thought it was more a great play by the VGK than a flub by the goalie.

It is a hard position to play. He would have had to make that decision quickly. And that's kind of the point. Making a great save on the first shot doesn't always cut it come playoff time in the NHL. Games and series swing on plays like that. He gets back to the post and they win. He didn't.

 

[USN_Panther]

I am just saying, average save percentage in the playoffs is what? .915 I think is the median?? Meaning 9 out of 100 shots goes in. Now we know goalies are beaten but the shot, and often a much better shot hits to post or crossbar than one that hits the goalies body. And they don't register as either a save or a goal. My point is, no one is perfect. And sometimes, an Ovi, a Sid, Mario, Bossy, Gretzky, just are better and you have to give "something" and the very best either finds that or in the case of Ovi, even overpowers. Sometimes there is nothing a goalie can do better.

I agree with this entirely. There is always net open to shoot at and a great shot will score. The goalie's job is to make the shooter make that great play. I consistently state that the defender needs to take away time and space as a shooter with both has a better chance of making the perfect shot. An incorrectly positioned goalie shows more net than necessary. Many times everyone makes a great play and the puck still goes in. That's what makes it a great game.

That said, shooters fail more often than goalies. Hitting a post is an "almost goal" the same as a goal through the 5 hole is an "almost save".

 

[USN_Panther]

every goalie makes mistakes

Speak for yourself. I don't. Every goal I give up is someone else's fault.

 

[goalieman]

Speak for yourself. I don't. Every goal I give up is someone else's fault.

Really ..... send us some of those video's of your games and we'll analyze them and see !!! LOL !!!

 

[JD1976]

You guys might want to send some advice to poor Petr Mrazek. He’s getting lit up like Eddie Lemieux in Slapshot this afternoon.

 

[goalieman]

You guys might want to send some advice to poor Petr Mrazek. He’s getting lit up like Eddie Lemieux in Slapshot this afternoon.

My advice would be that he sign up for our beginners course !

 

[WannyandWalt]

Not winning with Jarry, so he first has to go, not sure about Malkin and Letang , but if someone offered me a boat load NOBODY is off limits for the right price, including Crosby, for the right price

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not winning with Jarry, so he first has to go, not sure about Malkin and Letang , but if someone offered me a boat load NOBODY is off limits for the right price, including Crosby, for the right price

You still have to sell tickets. The NHL is a gate driven league and the last 18 months have not been kind to that.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

By the way......those Bruins are just making the Islanders look silly aren't they? Ahem,

 

[USN_Panther]

By the way......those Bruins are just making the Islanders look silly aren't they? Ahem,

Good series.

 

[USN_Panther]

Really ..... send us some of those video's of your games and we'll analyze them and see !!! LOL !!!

Only one from last night. Weird play too. Puck rolling on edge and skater couldn't settle it so just shot it through the legs of defenceman. I saw it off the stick so no excuses. Came in low and fast and on the edge. Hit my stick and popped or rolled up over the blade and just squeezed through 5 hole. Thought I had it under me but shooter celebrated. Video is directly behind me so can't really see what happened. Won 6-1 so not that worried about it. Team is now 8-1.

 

[FreeportPanther]

By the way......those Bruins are just making the Islanders look silly aren't they? Ahem,

By the way, Fleury has the Golden Knights even with the Avalanche.
I'll hang up and listen....................

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

By the way, Fleury has the Golden Knights even with the Avalanche.
I'll hang up and listen....................

yeah pretty good. If Fleury played like he is now, between 2010 and 2015, the Pens would have had at least another Cup, maybe 2.

 

[FreeportPanther]

yeah pretty good. If Fleury played like he is now, between 2010 and 2015, the Pens would have had at least another Cup, maybe 2.

Late bloomer.
Nolan Ryan was pretty pedestrian early in his career too.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Late bloomer.
Nolan Ryan was pretty pedestrian early in his career too.

Yeah.....the shame of it is........if you could have foreseen this........man keeping MAF and trading MM, Murray would have commanded HUGE return. Especially from a team like Edmonton or Toronto. But alas, no one saw both careers taking off in completely different directions.

 

[Jakey_John]

Late bloomer.
Nolan Ryan was pretty pedestrian early in his career too.

Flower, late bloomer, I see what you did there.
Fleury was always badass in the regular season. 2012-15 playoffs not as much. Recruits is absolutely right at the time no one could have foreseen that Fleury would be this good. Fortunately he is a guy who’s very easy to root for.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Flower, late bloomer, I see what you did there.
Fleury was always badass in the regular season. 2012-15 playoffs not as much. Recruits is absolutely right at the time no one could have foreseen that Fleury would be this good. Fortunately he is a guy who’s very easy to root for.

But he was not a "bad ass" in the regular season. This is the first time he is a Vezina finalist. He never was an All Star. He was always a good goalie, just never a top 10 goalie. Until he went to Vegas. Maybe he was too comfortable and complacent here. Cause he was great in the 2017 playoffs when Murray was hurt.

 

[NCanton Panther]

yeah pretty good. If Fleury played like he is now, between 2010 and 2015, the Pens would have had at least another Cup, maybe 2.

I’m not sure how good Fluery was or wasn’t in their last 2 games to even the series, but he sure didn’t have to face many shots on goal. I think the VGK outshot the Avs something like 100 to 50 over the last 2 games plus last period of the 2nd game.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I’m not sure how good Fluery was or wasn’t in their last 2 games to even the series, but he sure didn’t have to face many shots on goal. I think the VGK outshot the Avs something like 100 to 50 over the last 2 games plus last period of the 2nd game.

One thing that really struck me watching Vegas is just how BIG they are.

8 of their forwards are 6'2" or taller. 8 of their forwards are over 210lbs. Only 3 forwards are under 6', only 3 of their forwards are under 185lbs. Their D corp is not huge, but also not small either. Most are 6'2ish 200lbish.

And they all seem to skate just fine, especially their DCorps. Compare that with the Pens.

 

[maxxwell]

Yeah.....the shame of it is........if you could have foreseen this........man keeping MAF and trading MM, Murray would have commanded HUGE return. But alas, no one saw both careers taking off in completely different directions.

Not sure how many foresaw Fleury putting up stats like he has been (do you suppose getting away from the Pens offense first philosophy has anything to do with it?), but there were some who advocated keeping Fleury and trading Murray. I imagine it would have been a dangerous move for Rutherford but, ya, imagine if he had.

 

[runshadyrun]

watching game, bruins would have crushed the pens

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

watching game, bruins would have crushed the pens

LOL.....like the Islanders?? Come on folks, stop spouting this crap.

 

[goalieman]

But he was not a "bad ass" in the regular season. This is the first time he is a Vezina finalist. He never was an All Star. He was always a good goalie, just never a top 10 goalie. Until he went to Vegas. Maybe he was too comfortable and complacent here. Cause he was great in the 2017 playoffs when Murray was hurt.

Not sure how many foresaw Fleury putting up stats like he has been (do you suppose getting away from the Pens offense first philosophy has anything to do with it?), but there were some who advocated keeping Fleury and trading Murray. I imagine it would have been a dangerous move for Rutherford but, ya, imagine if he had.

The reason Fleury improved his game and made it more consistent when he went to Vegas is because his goalie coach in Vegas (Dave Prior) changed the way he played the game to a system that utilized his skill set better ...... Prior emphasized more aggressive positioning (out farther), holding your ground (discourages backward movement as much as possible), waiting out situations (not going down too fast), and try not to cheat on lateral passes by backing in too deep .....

When you use more aggressive positioning (out farther), it means that going from one angle and position to the next is a longer distance then if you are deep in the crease (but it also means less open net for the shooter), so Fleury's more aggressive positioning challenged the shooters better (good for a smaller goalie) and allowed Fleury to use his quickness, athleticism, and powerful lateral pushes to his advantage in allowing him to get from one position to the next to make saves ...... Fleury's skills are perfect for Prior's system and better for him then the slightly more conservative system that Bales had with the Pens .......

Prior (who has since retired as goalie coach and his top assistant took over) did something else that I am a big fan of and that is insist that his goalies use all the principles/technique that he teaches for games in practice (no cheating) ...... a lot of times goalies develop bad habits in practice because they often face 2 on 0, 3 on 0, 3 on 1, 2 on 1 line rushes and to make saves in those situation in practice they have to break form and cheat (over and over) which leads to bad habits and poor technique in games.

Another thing that Fleury does much better now then he did in Pittsburgh is play the rVH technique ...... the rVH technique is relatively hard to learn and perform well ...... most young goalies now have played the rVH for 8+ years and it is second nature to them but Fleury had to start learning it around 2014-2016 while in the NHL (Bales did put the rVH in Fleury's game), but had problems with it for a while and is much better performing it now in Vegas .....

Remember when Fleury was in Pittsburgh and every time he went behind the net to play the puck, you cringed that he would misplay it ....... he is no Brodeur, but MAF is at least component at playing the puck behind the net now ......

So a lot of reasons Fleury's game has further blossomed and flourished in Vegas and he is starting to make a somewhat better case for the HOF.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The reason Fleury improved his game and made it more consistent when he went to Vegas is because his goalie coach in Vegas (Dave Prior) changed the way he played the game to a system that utilized his skill set better ...... Prior emphasized more aggressive positioning (out farther), holding your ground (discourages backward movement as much as possible), waiting out situations (not going down too fast), and try not to cheat on lateral passes by backing in to deeper .....

When you use more aggressive positioning (out farther), it means that going from one angle and position to the next is a longer distance then if you are deep in the crease (but it also means less open net for the shooter), so Fleury's more aggressive positioning challenged the shooters better (good for a smaller goalie) and allowed Fleury to use his quickness, athleticism, and powerful lateral pushes to his advantage in allowing him to get from one position to the next to make saves ...... Fleury's skills are perfect for Prior's system and better for him then the slightly more conservative system that Bales had with the Pens .......

Prior (who has since retired as goalie coach and his top assistant took over) did something else that I am a big fan of and that is insist that his goalies use all the principles/technique that he teaches for games in practice ...... a lot of times goalies develop bad habits in practice because they often face 2 on 0, 3 on 0, 3 on 1, 2 on 1 line rushes and to make saves in those situation in practice they have to break form and cheat (over and over) which leads to bad habits and poor technique in games.

Another thing that Fleury does much better now then he did in Pittsburgh is play the rVH technique ...... the rVH technique is relatively hard to learn and perform well ...... most young goalies now have played the rVH for 10+ years and it is second nature to them but Fleury had to start learning it around 2014-2016 while in the NHL (Bales did put the rVH in Fleury's game), but had problems with it for a while and is much better performing it now in Vegas .....

Remember when Fleury was in Pittsburgh and every time he went behind the net to play the puck, you cringed that he would misplay it ....... he is no Brodeur, but MAF is at least component at playing the puck behind the net now ......

So a lot of reasons Fleury's game has further blossomed and flourished in Vegas and he is starting to make a somewhat better case for the HOF.

More evidence the Pens need to make a goalie coach change if anything.