OT: Pens

[lilspainishflea]

Sid, Sid, Sid. Lets help Sid.

For a great player, there seems to be a ton of efforts to help Sid.

Trying to “help” Sid seems to have been going on for years.

Sid seems to be “despartely” in “need” of “help”. Strange.

Sid seems to get whatever he wants, yet it never seems to “help”. Strange.

Just once, I would like to hear I think we should play Sid with Joe Blow to help Joe Blow. Strange we never hear “that”.

Sid plays with trash players compared to most NHL scoring stars. He takes nobodies from the AHL like Jake Guentzel and Conner Sheary and makes them 20+ goal scorers while Ovechkin gets to spend his entire career with Nicholas Backstrom. Crosby always draws the most difficult work and excels anyway.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

We are close to, if not THE, softest team in the NHL. I have a hard time believing hits were actually even. None of our defensemen can clear the opposition from front of the net/slot, or put any semblance of fear into opposing forwards taking the puck to the net. Our forwards are not hard on the forecheck whatsoever and make it way to easy on opposing defensemen who are retrieving the puck and breaking it out of the zone. Every time you see one of our guys get rid of the puck, they’re being put on their wallet after making a play. 9/10 times their guy gets rid of the puck, we do a fly-by instead of finishing the check. If we do decide to finish our check, most of the time it’s pretty weak. It’s like a horsefly on a horse.

But what do I know, I’ve only been playing competitive hockey since I was 4 years old.

Well, apparently you missed the fact that the Pens owned the puck the last two games and the game was played in the Islander's end. You also missed that hits were even the last two games.

You think the Pens didn't go to the net because they were scared of getting hit? They spent plenty of time in front of the net. The problem was they missed the net on too many shots and the Isles blocked a ton of shots.

The Pens need better defensemen that can play D. I acknowledge this, but hits are probably the most useless metric in hockey.

 

[JD1976]

Well, apparently you missed the fact that the Pens owned the puck the last two games and the game was played in the Islander's end. You also missed that hits were even the last two games.

You think the Pens didn't go to the net because they were scared of getting hit? They spent plenty of time in front of the net. The problem was they missed the net on too many shots and the Isles blocked a ton of shots.

The Pens need better defensemen that can play D. I acknowledge this, but hits are probably the most useless metric in hockey.

The 18 skaters in this series played very well. The finishing was frustrating, but the big, tough, physical, defensive-minded Islanders allowed the Pens to mostly control the puck in 5 of the 6 games.

 

[Dan1911]

Would love for some team to trade a middling pick for Sully so we can move on.

 

[Dan1911]

The 18 skaters in this series played very well. The finishing was frustrating, but the big, tough, physical, defensive-minded Islanders allowed the Pens to mostly control the puck in 5 of the 6 games.

The big difference was goaltending. The curse of the flower. Murray collapsed. Jarry collapsed and CDS disintegrated.

 

[gary2]

Sid plays with trash players compared to most NHL scoring stars. He takes nobodies from the AHL like Jake Guentzel and Conner Sheary and makes them 20+ goal scorers while Ovechkin gets to spend his entire career with Nicholas Backstrom. Crosby always draws the most difficult work and excels anyway.

Sure

 

[lilspainishflea]

People can complain about Crosby until they're blue in the face but when your goalie gives up 5 goals on his first 19 shots in any elimination game, there's nothing else that needs to be said.

Jarry turned in the worst goalie performance of any playoff goalie since 2014. He was terrible. Others were bad, too, but Jarry was absolutely the proximate cause of the Penguin's elimination.

 

[gary2]

People can complain about Crosby until they're blue in the face but when your goalie gives up 5 goals on his first 19 shots in any elimination game, there's nothing else that needs to be said.

Jarry turned in the worst goalie performance of any playoff goalie since 2014. He was terrible. Others were bad, too, but Jarry was absolutely the proximate cause of the Penguin's elimination.

Agree

 

[pittguy81]

Jarry wasn't good but there were a lot of problems that led to this series loss. How many times did the Pens make a careless turnover at center ice, failing to get the puck deep into the offensive zone with a Defenseman pinching....only to get caught in an odd man rush with a forward trying to get back on defense?

How much traffic did the Pens get in front of Sorokin? How many grinding ugly goals did the Pens score? Pens sure could have used a Chris Kunitz or Patrik Hornquist type player not afraid to get in front of the net and muck it up.

Disappointing but the Pens just weren't good enough....and the Top Dogs didn't show up.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not sure what you were watching, but the Pens had some devastating hits on the Islanders. Even Crosby and Malkin lined guys up.
The only guy knocked out of the series was Wahlstrom after a heavy hit by Matheson.

The Penguins spent a ton of time in their own end, they just didn't put the puck past the Islanders Goalie.

Gooning it up in the playoffs isn't a smart strategy, no team wants to play short handed.

Net front presence, on both the offensive and defensive ends are lacking though FP, you have to admit that. And that is a lack of size and strength.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not to beat a dead horse but the decline goes back to giving up Marc Andre Fleury in the expansion draft. I think we could have had another cup or two since then.

Marc Andre Fleury was once Matt Murray and Tristan Jarry.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Connor McDavid is considered by the majority of hockey experts as the "best player in hockey."

His Edmonton Oilers were swept in the first round by the Winnipeg Jets. 🤷‍♂️

I'd think that at least Crosby is supposed to be the best player on the Pens team right now, no? He used to be the best in all of hockey. But as with McDavid, one player doesn't make a team and you rarely win because of one player.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Net front presence, on both the offensive and defensive ends are lacking though FP, you have to admit that. And that is a lack of size and strength.

I readily admit that. I posted previously they needed a Hornquist clone, or Kevin Stephens type.
And we'd all like a Ulf/Kjell tandem on the blue line as well.

I just take issue that the Pens forwards were being manhandled without giving back.

 

[razzaba]

Not sure what you were watching, but the Pens had some devastating hits on the Islanders. Even Crosby and Malkin lined guys up.
The only guy knocked out of the series was Wahlstrom after a heavy hit by Matheson.

The Penguins spent a ton of time in their own end, they just didn't put the puck past the Islanders Goalie.

Gooning it up in the playoffs isn't a smart strategy, no team wants to play short handed.

Yes Malkin had a great, clean hard hit last night, agreed, and then drew a penalty on the retaliation. The problem is it’s few and far between.

I am in no way talking about “gooning it up” I’m taking about cleanly finishing checks, moving people out from the front of our net, winning battles in front of their net, making the opposing D take contact and pay a price (legally) when they retrieve pucks and wearing them down, etc.

No team is afraid of the physicality of the Penguins. No one. Guentzel got abused. Rust got abused. Zucker dished out a few hits, but got abused generally speaking. Our forwards had very little space to do anything.

 

[pittguy81]

Well, apparently you missed the fact that the Pens owned the puck the last two games and the game was played in the Islander's end. You also missed that hits were even the last two games.

You think the Pens didn't go to the net because they were scared of getting hit? They spent plenty of time in front of the net. The problem was they missed the net on too many shots and the Isles blocked a ton of shots.

The Pens need better defensemen that can play D. I acknowledge this, but hits are probably the most useless metric in hockey.

The Pens had basically no traffic in front of the Islander's net. Not sure what games you were watching.

 

[Phillypanther2]

Yes Malkin had a great, clean hard hit last night, agreed, and then drew a penalty on the retaliation. The problem is it’s few and far between.

I am in no way talking about “gooning it up” I’m taking about cleanly finishing checks, moving people out from the front of our net, winning battles in front of their net, making the opposing D take contact and pay a price (legally) when they retrieve pucks and wearing them down, etc.

No team is afraid of the physicality of the Penguins. No one. Guentzel got abused. Rust got abused. Zucker dished out a few hits, but got abused generally speaking. Our forwards had very little space to do anything.

Sully used to use the phrase “being difficult to play against.” The Islanders are difficult to play against, the Bruins are difficult to play against. The Penguins are NOT difficult to play against.

 

[razzaba]

Sully used to use the phrase “being difficult to play against.” The Islanders are difficult to play against, the Bruins are difficult to play against. The Penguins are NOT difficult to play against.

Exactly and that’s what I’m getting at. We need to have some size and more physicality in order to be difficult to play against, create some space for the skilled players, go to the hard areas, etc.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I readily admit that. I posted previously they needed a Hornquist clone, or Kevin Stephens type.
And we'd all like a Ulf/Kjell tandem on the blue line as well.

I just take issue that the Pens forwards were being manhandled without giving back.

Hell, you are older than me. LOL........anyways......we traded HOFer to be, uber skilled Mark Recchi and Paul Coffey for Rick Tocchet and Kjell Samuelsson, and a back up goalie names Ken Wregget. I know I hate living in the past also, but that is the EXACT type of trade this franchise needs right now.

 

[Dointhatrag]

Marc Andre Fleury was once Matt Murray and Tristan Jarry.

Except that Fleury has won a stanley cup since we dropped him and he is still playing this year in the playoffs, while Murray and Jarry are home watching.

 

[WannyandWalt]

I think we should try for Gibson at goal in a trade with Anaheim

 

[Upg bobcat]

Except that Fleury has won a stanley cup since we dropped him and he is still playing this year in the playoffs, while Murray and Jarry are home watching.

Won a stanley cup with who?

 

[Dointhatrag]

Won a stanley cup with who?

Sorry conference champion/lost in finals. still further than pens since we left him unprotected.

 

[goalieman]

Net front presence, on both the offensive and defensive ends are lacking though FP, you have to admit that. And that is a lack of size and strength.

Exactly and that’s what I’m getting at. We need to have some size and more physicality in order to be difficult to play against, create some space for the skilled players, go to the hard areas, etc.

The top teams the last several seasons have been the ones with the best combination of speed, talent, physicality, structure, and goaltending ......

The Pens still have good speed and talent although the rest of the league has caught up with them in that regard so we have no distinct advantage ...... we are definitely lacking in physicality and need to improve in that area but the secret is getting more physical without compromising in speed and talent ......

Our structure isn't good enough either and that will take good coaching to improve ...... either Sullivan modifying his ways or a new coach if he doesn't ........

After this last series, goaltending is now a much bigger question mark of what to do for next season ...... last night I reviewed every goal given up by Jarry in the series ...... he played very poorly in Game #1 as 3 of the 4 goals were soft, he actually played overall well in Games #2, 3, and 4 despite giving up 9 goals total .... of those 9 goals only one goal was bad, one questionable, and 7 were either on screens, deflections, one timers on passes across, or a teammate shooting the puck into his own net all plays where the goalie usually doesn't have time to adjust and if he does make a save on those plays it is usually by luck (the Islanders really had a lot of players in front of our net and in high scoring areas that weren't cleared out, defended, or neutralized by the Pens) ....... so after 4 games, I posted on here that despite the number of goals given up, Jarry, although he hadn't played great, had played pretty well and was not the major problem we were having .... and I stand by that ...... however, in Game 5, he was terrible as all 3 goals could have been played better and of course he had THE GAFFE in overtime, I pretty much blasted him after that game ...... he followed up in Game #6 with another awful performance giving up 5 goals only one of which he had no chance at making a save, one he probably should have saved and 3 he definitely should have saved ...... so if you look at the series in it's entirety, he was really bad in games 1, 5, and 6 being a major factor in the loss ..... he played pretty well in games 2, 3, and 4 ..... but there is no way you can win a series with the way he played overall.

This off season should be very interesting as they have to make changes and try to improve in several areas, goaltending being one .... and it's complicated with several moving parts including the expansion draft, salary cap, free agents, limited assets available for trades, NMC/NTC in contracts, what other teams are willing to give up, etc., etc. ....... so I'm not sure what options will be available regarding the goalies but at a minimum, if we bring both Jarry and DeSmith back, we need through trade or free agency to bring in a veteran goalie and have open competition for the number one spot ...... and I think it is time for a goalie coach change, Jarry especially needs to have a different perspective to try and clean up his game ....... I also am confident that Hextall having a unique and expert knowledge on goaltending is the best person to sort out and improve the goalie situation ...... should be an interesting summer !

 

[NCanton Panther]

The top teams the last several seasons have been the ones with the best combination of speed, talent, physicality, structure, and goaltending ......

The Pens still have good speed and talent although the rest of the league has caught up with them in that regard so we have no distinct advantage ...... we are definitely lacking in physicality and need to improve in that area but the secret is getting more physical without compromising in speed and talent ......

Our structure isn't good enough either and that will take good coaching to improve ...... either Sullivan modifying his ways or a new coach if he doesn't ........

After this last series, goaltending is now a much bigger question mark of what to do for next season ...... last night I reviewed every goal given up by Jarry in the series ...... he played very poorly in Game #1 as 3 of the 4 goals were soft, he actually played overall well in Games #2, 3, and 4 despite giving up 9 goals total .... of those 9 goals only one goal was bad, one questionable, and 7 were either on screens, deflections, one timers on passes across, or a teammate shooting the puck into his own net all plays where the goalie usually doesn't have time to adjust and if he does make a save on those plays it is usually by luck (the Islanders really had a lot of players in front of our net and in high scoring areas that weren't cleared out, defended, or neutralized by the Pens) ....... so after 4 games, I posted on here that despite the number of goals given up, Jarry, although he hadn't played great, had played pretty well and was not the major problem we were having .... and I stand by that ...... however, in Game 5, he was terrible as all 3 goals could have been played better and of course he had THE GAFFE in overtime, I pretty much blasted him after that game ...... he followed up in Game #6 with another awful performance giving up 5 goals only one of which he had no chance at making a save, one he probably should have saved and 3 he definitely should have saved ...... so if you look at the series in it's entirety, he was really bad in games 1, 5, and 6 being a major factor in the loss ..... he played pretty well in games 2, 3, and 4 ..... but there is no way you can win a series with the way he played overall.

This off season should be very interesting as they have to make changes and try to improve in several areas, goaltending being one .... and it's complicated with several moving parts including the expansion draft, salary cap, free agents, limited assets available for trades, NMC/NTC in contracts, what other teams are willing to give up, etc., etc. ....... so I'm not sure what options will be available regarding the goalies but at a minimum, if we bring both Jarry and DeSmith back, we need through trade or free agency to bring in a veteran goalie and have open competition for the number one spot ...... and I think it is time for a goalie coach change, Jarry especially needs to have a different perspective to try and clean up his game ....... I also am confident that Hextall having a unique and expert knowledge on goaltending is the best person to sort out and improve the goalie situation ...... should be an interesting summer !

A very popular/common comment on the Pens herein is that they are built for speed but lack size and physicality, and that kills them once you get to the playoffs given how those games are called (or more appropriately not called).

I mostly agree with the above but have to take exception on the Pen’s speed claim. That’s a thing of the past. They sure didn’t look any faster than the Isles to me and if anything, looked slower. Particularly in game 6.

on goaltenders, I know none would be ready yet but didn’t we draft a couple goalies with high draft picks in recent years, at least 1 if not 2 being 1st round selections? If I’m remembering that correctly, what are the future prospects of these guys, any of them looked on as future NHL caliber #1 goalies?

 

[BreakingPitt]

2020 Draft Class

Meet the Penguins' 2020 NHL Draft Class | Pittsburgh Penguins

The Penguins' 2020 Draft recap is presented by GEICO. To view the Draft Hub, click here.It turned out to be a busy Day 2 of the 2020 NHL Draft, which was held virtually, for the Penguins - who did not have a first-round pick after trading it to Toronto in

www.nhl.com

 

[NCanton Panther]

2020 Draft Class

Meet the Penguins' 2020 NHL Draft Class | Pittsburgh Penguins

The Penguins' 2020 Draft recap is presented by GEICO. To view the Draft Hub, click here.It turned out to be a busy Day 2 of the 2020 NHL Draft, which was held virtually, for the Penguins - who did not have a first-round pick after trading it to Toronto in

www.nhl.com

So I was only partly remembering correctly. 2 goalies there but only 2nd and 3rd round selections, not 1st round.

Kiss of death in the write up for the first one....comparable to Jarry.

 

[gary2]

So I was only partly remembering correctly. 2 goalies there but only 2nd and 3rd round selections, not 1st round.

Kiss of death in the write up for the first one....comparable to Jarry.

Here is what they had done this year. Scroll to bottom.

Penguins Prospect Watch: Kasper Bjorkqvist returns to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton

A weekly look at how Penguins prospects and minor leaguers have fared over the past seven days: • In the American Hockey League (AHL) forward Kasper Bjorkqvist rejoined the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins after being on loan to KooKoo of the Liiga, the top-tier league in his native Finland...

triblive.com

 

[goalieman]

A very popular/common comment on the Pens herein is that they are built for speed but lack size and physicality, and that kills them once you get to the playoffs given how those games are called (or more appropriately not called).

I mostly agree with the above but have to take exception on the Pen’s speed claim. That’s a thing of the past. They sure didn’t look any faster than the Isles to me and if anything, looked slower. Particularly in game 6.

on goaltenders, I know none would be ready yet but didn’t we draft a couple goalies with high draft picks in recent years, at least 1 if not 2 being 1st round selections? If I’m remembering that correctly, what are the future prospects of these guys, any of them looked on as future NHL caliber #1 goalies?

Most teams are fast in the NHL these days, some are faster and some slower then the Pens ...... the Pens still have speed but so do others and as I said we don't have the advantage in speed that we had in the last two Cups ..... however, we aren't considered a slow team ...... I think teams that play with structure tend to play faster in games and some like the Islanders also tend to slow the opponents speed down especially through the neutral zone with traps .......

As others posted, we took the goalies in Rounds 2 and 3 (we didn't have a first round pick) ...... from all I have read, they are considered several years away from the NHL so not options for next year ....... they are both good prospects but too early in their development to judge how they will end up ....... hopefully, one or both will do really well.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The Pens had basically no traffic in front of the Islander's net. Not sure what games you were watching.

I was watching the same games that others were complaining that the Islanders were pounding the Pens in front of the net. You can't pound guys in front of the net unless guys are there.

 

[gary2]

I was watching the same games that others were complaining that the Islanders were pounding the Pens in front of the net. You can't pound guys in front of the net unless guys are there.

You can if we are talking about Peterson and Marino in front of our own net.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I think people who expect this team to get big, physical, and play more of a grinding game aren't going to be happy. The Penguins aren't built to play like that, and as long as Lemieux is the owner, I don't think they will ever be built to play like that.

The Islanders killed the Pens with guys like Bailey, Barzal, Beauvillier, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Eberle, Komorav, Pageau, and Palmieri. None are really any bigger than what the Penguins throw out there. They play different because they play a different system.

You wanna know who the softest team in the NHL is? It's the Colorado Avalanche who dismantled the Blues in 4 games.

I see a problem with a lack of legs and skill guys on offense. I see a problem with too many D cut from the same cloth (Pettersson, Matheson, Cici, Marino). I see a problem in goal.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Except that Fleury has won a stanley cup since we dropped him and he is still playing this year in the playoffs, while Murray and Jarry are home watching.

What Stanley Cup did he win since "we dropped him"?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Here's an interesting chart of Penguin postseason goalie performances since 2008. It also shows why I think some of these new analytics are a bunch of bollocks. Still, this can explain a lot. For instance, "Saint Marc Andre Fleury", the happy go lucky greatest goaltender whoever lived, had a lot of really lousy post seasons, including a mediocre expected goals average in the Cup winning year of 2009. And Matt Murray, are beleaguered whipping boy, was not that bad, including the sweep to the Isles where he somehow got blamed instead of the guys who should have (87 and 71 and 59).

Jarry's performance was MAF bad, but it was more when and what type of goals he let in vs just the sheer volume. And even when MAF had that fantastic run in 2017, Matt Murray was still better than him that year. My point here, while the Pens have been outplayed in goal, a lot.........these recent 1st rd exits in particular are team efforts for sure.

 

[WannyandWalt]

What Stanley Cup did he win since "we dropped him"?

WINNER!

 

[maxxwell]

Meant to post this yesterday. Rob Rossi, when interviewed on The Fan afternoon show yesterday, stated he understands that Geno is willing to accept a lower salary if extended. Not something like $4 mill a year, but several million cheaper. Remember that Craig Button had said the Penguins need to take that approach with their aging core. According to Rossi, Geno is agreeable to that.

 

[BreakingPitt]

Will Fleury will a Game 7 tonight ?
I give it about a 53 percent chance.
I knew I should have bet against the Pens the other night so I will probably lose this one.
I like 29 just not the Golden Knights.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Will Fleury will a Game 7 tonight ?
I give it about a 53 percent chance.
I knew I should have bet against the Pens the other night so I will probably lose this one.
I like 29 just not the Golden Knights.

Go Wild.

 

[BreakingPitt]

that was fleury from like 2014

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Rob Rossi, when interviewed on The Fan afternoon show yesterday, stated he understands that Geno is willing to accept a lower salary if extended. Not something like $4 mill a year, but several million cheaper.

Well if Malkin isn't willing to take significantly less on his next contract he isn't going to get a next contract. Not here, not anywhere. No one in their right mind is even going to consider giving him $9.5 million a season at his age and production level.

 

[BFo8]

Will Fleury will a Game 7 tonight ?
I give it about a 53 percent chance.
I knew I should have bet against the Pens the other night so I will probably lose this one.
I like 29 just not the Golden Knights.

MAF was solid tonight, and didn’t give up anything soft. Vegas has had massive issues with the Wild, more so than any other team in the league so no surprise this series went the distance.

I see them and Colorado as the 2 best teams in the league and expect the winner to win the Cup. They certainly are the 2 favorites to do so.