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OT: Pickens WR

I agree that Washington may have been down Ben’s priority list butby the same token, he couldn’t even have been on his list since the coaches didn’t put him in the game much.

I’m kinda leaning towards him being a bust based on the WRs coaches gave snaps to instead of him.

As I recall, the coaches complained about his effort in practice a few times. I mean, Ray Ray McCloud was a preferred target to him.
 
I mean, I gave Colbert an A on his wide receiver drafting. I was speaking to FK's point in that, while I give him an A, I can also acknowledge that the myth has perpetuated itself just a bit much. Stats aside, was Randel El ever even a top 30 or 40 receiver in this league?

And the second round is still the second round. That's a lot higher than the 7th round; if you're going to quote stats that include the total number of contributions by all draft picks, any spot in the second is a lot closer to the top than it is the bottom.

If you think Washington was anything but a bust/bad pick, then we strongly disagree.

Here's an exercise: Think of a random team. Mine is the Atlanta Falcons. And look at the receivers they've drafted in the last 20ish years.

Falcons:

2004 Michael Jenkins (1st)*
2005 Roddy White (1st)*
2006 Adam Jennings (6th)
2007 Laurent Robinson (3rd)*
2008 Harry Douglas (3rd)*
2010 Kerry Meier (5th)
2011 Julio Jones (1st)*
2015 Justin Hardy (4th)
2016 Devin Fuller (7th)
2018 Clavin Ridley (1st)*
2018 Russell Gage (6th)
2019 Marcus Green (6th)
2021 Frank Darby (6th) - early
2022 Drake London (1st) - early

Everyone I have an asterisk by has produced solid NFL seasons. It's a position that cycles so many guys that you're bound to hit on a decent amount of picks. And yes, I realize they've used some higher picks on some guys. They've also drafted a lot less receivers than we have. And those 2nd and 3rd round picks add up and are still relatively close to the top.

Dude, Laurent Robinson is James Washington, except that JW was pick 60 and Robinson pick 75.

The others you've star'd include 4 first round picks and one 3rd. You also could have gone back to 2000 like the Steelers list and picked up 7 more drafted WRs that were schlubs.
 
Dude, Laurent Robinson is James Washington, except that JW was pick 60 and Robinson pick 75.

The others you've star'd include 4 first round picks and one 3rd. You also could have gone back to 2000 like the Steelers list and picked up 7 more drafted WRs that were schlubs.
Washington has participated in just about every game in his four years here. 1.90 receptions per game and 27.15 yards per.

If I take the three near-full seasons Robinson played, it's 38.12 yards/game and 2.91 receptions/game. You can take him off the list altogether, but the point still remains. Do it with another team if you want to. Eagles. Chiefs. Saints. Whomever. I'm not saying the percentage will be as high (note: I gave Colbert an A), but I think you'll see a lot of guys who have put up decent to really good years. Young Money really helped Colbert's reputation.

And, for the record, they should be credited to Colbert's reputation. Those were three hits in the third round or later. My point was just that, because of that, people have been a little quick to jump the gun on some other guys or have exaggerated some. Like Wheaton and even Coates were considered feathers in his cap at one point, but if you look at their total careers they really weren't mad genius picks.
 
The Steelers also had a pretty good QB over the past two decades to help make some of those draft picks look good.

Pickens is an exciting prospect because of his potential. He's a guy with all the talent but never had enough time on the field to fully showcase what he can do. What I like about him is he has true No. 1 potential, a guy who a defense may need to game plan around. I also think it's huge that he develops early because there isn't any depth at the position right now. Johnson and Pickens at his full potential on the outside with Claypool in the slot and Freiermuth at tight end is a solid group of weapons for any QB
 
Washington has participated in just about every game in his four years here. 1.90 receptions per game and 27.15 yards per.

If I take the three near-full seasons Robinson played, it's 38.12 yards/game and 2.91 receptions/game. You can take him off the list altogether, but the point still remains. Do it with another team if you want to. Eagles. Chiefs. Saints. Whomever. I'm not saying the percentage will be as high (note: I gave Colbert an A), but I think you'll see a lot of guys who have put up decent to really good years. Young Money really helped Colbert's reputation.
I think the reputation is well earned, but so is Roethlisberger's participation in it. The Steelers go from Brown, to JuJu, to Johnson, to Claypool, to maybe Pickens. That is a nice pipeline and one that allows them to avoid the massive WR contract guys are getting right now.
 
I think the reputation is well earned, but so is Roethlisberger's participation in it. The Steelers go from Brown, to JuJu, to Johnson, to Claypool, to maybe Pickens. That is a nice pipeline and one that allows them to avoid the massive WR contract guys are getting right now.

Yeah, no doubt. Santonio Holmes' yards with the Steelers:

824, 942, 821, 1248

Without:

746, 654, 272, 456, 67

And there are a few others like that, which is what I was saying above: I still give Colbert the A, but I think there might have been some other pieces in place that had an impact.

Emmanuel Sanders is the only one I remember being better after leaving here (i.e. playing with Ben).
 
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I mean, I gave Colbert an A on his wide receiver drafting. I was speaking to FK's point in that, while I give him an A, I can also acknowledge that the myth has perpetuated itself just a bit much. Stats aside, was Randel El ever even a top 30 or 40 receiver in this league?

And the second round is still the second round. That's a lot higher than the 7th round; if you're going to quote stats that include the total number of contributions by all draft picks, any spot in the second is a lot closer to the top than it is the bottom.

If you think Washington was anything but a bust/bad pick, then we strongly disagree.

Here's an exercise: Think of a random team. Mine is the Atlanta Falcons. And look at the receivers they've drafted in the last 20ish years.

Falcons:

2004 Michael Jenkins (1st)*
2005 Roddy White (1st)*
2006 Adam Jennings (6th)
2007 Laurent Robinson (3rd)*
2008 Harry Douglas (3rd)*
2010 Kerry Meier (5th)
2011 Julio Jones (1st)*
2015 Justin Hardy (4th)
2016 Devin Fuller (7th)
2018 Clavin Ridley (1st)*
2018 Russell Gage (6th)
2019 Marcus Green (6th)
2021 Frank Darby (6th) - early
2022 Drake London (1st) - early

Everyone I have an asterisk by has produced solid NFL seasons. It's a position that cycles so many guys that you're bound to hit on a decent amount of picks. And yes, I realize they've used some higher picks on some guys. They've also drafted a lot less receivers than we have. And those 2nd and 3rd round picks add up and are still relatively close to the top.
I like your analysis. Another would be to look at WRs who were first round draft picks. Here they are from 2016-2020 (last five years):

Henry Ruggs
Jerry Jeudy
CeeDee Lamb
Jalen Reagor
Justin Jefferson
Brandon Aiyuk
Marquise Brown
N’Keal Harry
DJ Moore
Calvin Ridley
Corey Davis
Mike Williams
John Ross
Corey Coleman
Will Fuller
Josh Doctson
Laquan Treadwell

By my reckoning, Jeudy, Lamb, Jefferson, Aiyuk, Brown, Moore, Ridley, Williams and Fuller can be considered somewhere between “decent” and “great” NFL WRs. About a 50% hit rate.

So, Colbert batted about average with Holmes and Edwards, and batted about 50% or a little less with his non-first round WR picks. Not bad in my opinion.
 
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