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OT: Pitt Law School info

ENG80

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Sep 27, 2001
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My daughter who has undergraduate from Pitt is trying to decide between
Pitt, Duquesne or Case Western for Law school. She was accepted for each.
Any thoughts or insight on plus or minus regards Pitt Law school is greatly appreciated.
Her heart is Pitt, but with scholarship considerations, it will cost us a good bit more to go there.
 
I always thought case western was elite.

I have a relative that went to duquense law and said it was really poor.
 
Pitt or Case. My daughter actually was accepted at Case Law and we took a trip, it is a nice campus.
 
My daughter who has undergraduate from Pitt is trying to decide between
Pitt, Duquesne or Case Western for Law school. She was accepted for each.
Any thoughts or insight on plus or minus regards Pitt Law school is greatly appreciated.
Her heart is Pitt, but with scholarship considerations, it will cost us a good bit more to go there.

Law schools, at the end of the day, are about job placement and connections. Pitt and Case Western are much better ranked than Duquesne. Unless she wants to stay in Pittsburgh and Duquesne is offering a full scholarship, I would eliminate them. Their network is good in Pittsburgh and nowhere else really.

Looking at Pitt and Case Western, they are similarly ranked, but I would guess Pitt is cheaper. And, I think Pitt has more name value in other places if she wants work outside of Pittsburgh.

So, in this instance, I would say Pitt unless Case has a specific program that she wants to get into that will make her career of more value. Can you elaborate more if she has an idea of career direction? That would allow for a more specific answer.
 
One of our family friends was a federal judge and was a Duquesne grad. She advised my brother that if he wanted to stay local that Duquesne was just fine. But if he wanted to go international, which he did, then Pitt Law was a better choice.
 
Law schools, at the end of the day, are about job placement and connections. Pitt and Case Western are much better ranked than Duquesne. Unless she wants to stay in Pittsburgh and Duquesne is offering a full scholarship, I would eliminate them. Their network is good in Pittsburgh and nowhere else really.

Looking at Pitt and Case Western, they are similarly ranked, but I would guess Pitt is cheaper. And, I think Pitt has more name value in other places if she wants work outside of Pittsburgh.

So, in this instance, I would say Pitt unless Case has a specific program that she wants to get into that will make her career of more value. Can you elaborate more if she has an idea of career direction? That would allow for a more specific answer.

I’ll echo this. If she is looking to stay in Pittsburgh, Pitt is a no brainer. Duquesne doesn’t carry any name recognition. Yes, a ton of really smart people come out of Duq law. But it doesn’t have the big National University name like Pitt. I will say, the Big Law firms in Pittsburgh are recruiting Case because it is such a good school. But if she’s looking to make connections in Pittsburgh, that’s hard to do from Cleveland. if she wants to be in Pittsburgh, Pitt is her best bet.
 
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Thanks for the help! Our yearly costs including scholarships will be about 35K for Pitt, 17K for Case and
10K for Duquesne. Seems to be down to between Pitt and Case. She loves Pitt and Pittsburgh but
thinks she might like to move to the DC/Baltimore area and has some concern that Case may have better national recognition/reputation.
 
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Thanks for the help! Our yearly costs including scholarships will be about 35K for Pitt, 17K for Case and
10K for Duquesne. Seems to be down to between Pitt and Case. She loves Pitt and Pittsburgh but
thinks she might like to move to the DC/Baltimore area and has some concern that Case may have better national recognition/reputation.

I would take that Case number to Pitt as well. Director of financial aid. They always find more money when they know someone else is giving more. They did for me.
 
Institutionally speaking, Case is basically a CMU doppelgänger. It is tough to turn that down. Honestly, if you walk around the CWRU campus for a couple hours, you will soon start to feel like you are in Oakland. They are strikingly similar.

If you can afford the upfront costs, I wouldn’t let cost considerations govern this decision because you are making a lifetime investment and she will likely recoup that investment within a few years.

My wife works for one of the largest law firms in the city and according to her, pedigree definitely matters to some, especially as you are starting out. However, the actual candidate and practice area matters much more.

If your daughter works really hard and chooses really wisely - my wife chose IP - she can get a job anywhere she wants, regardless of where she goes to law school.

I am not an attorney, so take my opinion with a huge grain of salt. However, that would definitely be my wife’s advice as well. I know because we have had that conversation amongst ourselves or with friends or neighbors approximately 82,000 times during our marriage.
 
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Pitt and Case are ranked similarly for Law School, and both much higher than Duquesne, not even in the same ballpark really. As stated, Duquesne law degree might have some value locally because of the all the connections to other Duq alum, but won't be valued much outside of Allegheny County.

I have a child at Pitt Law now who didn't even apply to or consider Duq. Was accepted to some more prestigious Law Schools than Pitt, but Pitt did come up with some more money and that swayed the decision to stay local. So, as mentioned, it can't hurt to go back and ask Pitt for more money, this pretty common in Law School admissions process. My child's friend got a Law School to match a full academic scholarship from another Law School, even though the original full scholarship offer was from a much lower ranked school. Never hurts to ask.
 
Thanks for the help! Our yearly costs including scholarships will be about 35K for Pitt, 17K for Case and
10K for Duquesne. Seems to be down to between Pitt and Case. She loves Pitt and Pittsburgh but
thinks she might like to move to the DC/Baltimore area and has some concern that Case may have better national recognition/reputation.

I think that this is good information to add.

Regarding the national recognition/reputation, on a purely law level, they are equivalents. I doubt anyone would argue that. I believe that Case is known more for healthcare or some sort adjacent area of law.

I will offer four points as someone that went through this process awhile back:

(1) To her wanting to potentially move to the DC/Baltimore area, I think Pitt and Case likely provide equal opportunity to do so. What she can do to learn more is ask the school(s) about their alumni and where they are located professionally. Law schools generally keep some sort of records regarding geographic areas and placement.

Both schools tend to have smaller classes, which usually is a factor with alumni network. I believe Case has a tighter alumni network than Pitt, FWIW.

But, looking at getting from Pitt/Case to DC area (including Baltimore), you are generally looking at three routes: (1) government jobs; (2) bigger law firms; and (3) personal connections. The first two, you are able to learn more from a law school's career department about how/where they place. They will let you know figures and names on who (firms and government entities) comes in for fall and spring interviews and how many of their students get selected.

As a very honest point, if she wants to go to DC, she probably should just try to get into a DC area law school. Getting a job there will be much easier in that case. American's admission profile is generally the same as Pitt/Case. Same thing with Maryland though it sometimes is a little more selective (sometimes). I know it may be late in the game for her, but if she really wants DC, taking more time to make a decision may be the right move.

If she takes more time, she may be able to pump up the LSAT score as well and be looking more at GWU as an option. Just a thought. I know it is hard to get kids to slow down and sometimes you, as a parent, may not want them to lose momentum.

(2) Pitt did the same thing to me with the law school admissions process. Better or similarly ranked schools offered me way more cash than Pitt did. Pitt was very casual towards me, which had me puzzled back then. Looking back, I think it was more them filling their quota of Pitt undergraduate kids admitted to the law school and receiving funds.

I talked to their dean of admissions after they made a small run at me and when I told them where I was planning to go and how much they were planning to give, the dean was honest and said that I should turn down Pitt's offer and never think twice about it. I never did think twice about turning down their offer.

As a result, I like the suggestion above of asking them for more money (I have seen people do it and be successful), but I am not confident that they will do so since your daughter is a Pitt alum.

(3) With those money facts, I say Case is the right option. It is substantially cheaper, the stature between schools is very similar, Case does have a recruiting presence in Pittsburgh (though I would think once again it is more mid-level firm and above/government job related) and eventually interest will accrue whether she takes out loans or you lose that spending power (and the investment returns derived) out of your pocket.

It also may be good for your daughter to experience another city while she is young. And, she is close enough to home that there is always support/safety in that (but a nice buffer). Though I like to talk crap about Cleveland, it is a nice place if you stay out of the wrong areas (which as a law student, I doubt she spends much of any time in).

(4) Before she chooses anything, I would really take care and time to make sure that she has some sort of plan regarding law school. Law school is a haven for some really smart kids that have no idea what they want to do with their lives but know they want to do something of note. So, law is an easy place for them to hide, bide time and try to figure things out while getting an elite and expensive degree.

I would feel a lot better sending a kid to school knowing that they wanted to be a public interest attorney (ex: DA or work with special classes of individuals) or they had a math/accounting background and wanted to work in tax or the school had some sort of special program that they wanted to participate in (like Case with Health Law) instead of just sending a kid there with the idea that they will figure out along the way.

Eventually people generally tend to figure things out, but doing that while going to law school is a highly stressful, expensive and sometimes counterproductive process. I would much rather send my kid to a 5th year of college to develop a skill (ex: accounting) and then later have them decide on law school than to just send them without a plan.

Just my two cents. And sorry to inundate you, but I have had this discussion with a lot of people in the past and these points always arise/are pertinent.
 
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There was an episode of Mr. Belvedere where the only law firm that was willing to hire Mrs. Owes was the Legal Hut at the mall on account of her law degree being from Pitt. Eventually she got hired by a big name Pittsburgh law firm only to find out she was hired because the head of the law firm was interested in her for reasons other than her legal acumen. She promptly quit this firm and resigned her self to accepting the job at the Legal Hut in the mall because the employees there were more her type of people and not aggressive cutthroat legal types.

This should probably not factor into your decision.
 
There was an episode of Mr. Belvedere where the only law firm that was willing to hire Mrs. Owes was the Legal Hut at the mall on account of her law degree being from Pitt. Eventually she got hired by a big name Pittsburgh law firm only to find out she was hired because the head of the law firm was interested in her for reasons other than her legal acumen. She promptly quit this firm and resigned her self to accepting the job at the Legal Hut in the mall because the employees there were more her type of people and not aggressive cutthroat legal types.

This should probably not factor into your decision.

I had always heard that getting you better prepared to pass a state's bar exam could be a factor in choosing a law school. A law school in the state you plan to practice law in was supposed to be the better choice if passing that particular state's bar exam more easily was a factor. In this situation, that would seem to not be a consideration unless preparing to ultimately pass DC, MD or VA bar would drive you to attending a law school in the DC metro region.
 
Law schools, at the end of the day, are about job placement and connections. Pitt and Case Western are much better ranked than Duquesne. Unless she wants to stay in Pittsburgh and Duquesne is offering a full scholarship, I would eliminate them. Their network is good in Pittsburgh and nowhere else really.

Looking at Pitt and Case Western, they are similarly ranked, but I would guess Pitt is cheaper. And, I think Pitt has more name value in other places if she wants work outside of Pittsburgh.

So, in this instance, I would say Pitt unless Case has a specific program that she wants to get into that will make her career of more value. Can you elaborate more if she has an idea of career direction? That would allow for a more specific answer.
I agree with this answer.
 
My daughter who has undergraduate from Pitt is trying to decide between
Pitt, Duquesne or Case Western for Law school. She was accepted for each.
Any thoughts or insight on plus or minus regards Pitt Law school is greatly appreciated.
Her heart is Pitt, but with scholarship considerations, it will cost us a good bit more to go there.
Cleveland is a far bigger and better legal market than Pittsburgh, especially when you throw in Akron Canton.
Case.
 
Relatively recent Pitt law grad here, who did a bunch of admissions tours and knew the admissions and financial aid folks rather well.

In your daughter’s situation, I would strongly recommend that your daughter circle back with Pitt admissions, explain the situation (with specific schools and scholarship numbers, combined with her goals), and request for a scholarship reconsideration. This happens all the time (it happened with me, and Pitt raised my scholarship by more than 10,000 to “match” the total cost of the other peer school I was considering) and there is no sense not to - the worst Pitt can do is say no. FWIW, I was part of an alumni town hall meeting a few weeks ago with the dean, who said in passing that they were “worried they might have too many commits (for 2020 enrollment) as it is,” so the scholarship pool might already be fully allocated, but it’s more than worth a try. Again, the worst thing they can do is say no.

In today’s landscape, Pitt and Case Western are essentially peer schools - Pitt is stronger in Pittsburgh and Case is better in Ohio - but they’re ranked similarly, have similar entering class credentials, and have similar employment statistics. Here’s a pretty detailed comparison (and this is a resource that I would recommend for ANYONE considering law school options)...as you can see, Pitt edges out Case by just a little bit in the numbers that actually matter - graduate employment rates. https://www.lstreports.com/compare/pitt/casewestern/

I would scratch Duquesne off the list, especially if your daughter has thoughts about practicing elsewhere after graduation. Duquesne just isn’t going to get you there with any kind of consistency. I will say, though, that if your daughter has her eyes on DC, then Pitt has a pretty well-developed “Semester in DC” program, that I’m not sure if Case can match. It’s basically a study abroad program for a semester or semester+summer in DC, and you go to class at Pitt’s annex in DC. It might be worth checking out. https://www.law.pitt.edu/academics/experiential-learning-opportunities/semester-dc-program

My (biased) takeaway is that if you can get Pitt to bring the total cost of attendance a little closer, then Pitt is the choice for your daughter’s goals. But both are fine options and good schools. Happy to answer any questions you might have, either here or over PM.
 
I had always heard that getting you better prepared to pass a state's bar exam could be a factor in choosing a law school. A law school in the state you plan to practice law in was supposed to be the better choice if passing that particular state's bar exam more easily was a factor. In this situation, that would seem to not be a consideration unless preparing to ultimately pass DC, MD or VA bar would drive you to attending a law school in the DC metro region.
This is good advice. I will say, though, that Pitt has a new program where they actually contract out with a commercial bar prep course (Themis) to provide each student with a post-graduation study course. Generally speaking, with programs like Themis if you complete enough of the course by the date of the exam, the stats show that you’re virtually guaranteed (90% or higher) to pass, regardless of jurisdiction.

A few thousand bucks after graduation for a prep course is a drop in the bucket compared to three years of tuition, but Pitt picking up the tab is a pretty nice perk.
 
This is good advice. I will say, though, that Pitt has a new program where they actually contract out with a commercial bar prep course (Themis) to provide each student with a post-graduation study course. Generally speaking, with programs like Themis if you complete enough of the course by the date of the exam, the stats show that you’re virtually guaranteed (90% or higher) to pass, regardless of jurisdiction.

A few thousand bucks after graduation for a prep course is a drop in the bucket compared to three years of tuition, but Pitt picking up the tab is a pretty nice perk.

Although good advice, unless you take one of the very few PA specific classes everything taught is federal law. It’s not PA specific for the exact opposite reason you stated... some people won’t practice in PA. But I’ve heard good things about the Themis partnership and everyone seems to like it

I was more so responding to the quoted message and not you specifically
 
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Thanks for the help! Our yearly costs including scholarships will be about 35K for Pitt, 17K for Case and
10K for Duquesne. Seems to be down to between Pitt and Case. She loves Pitt and Pittsburgh but
thinks she might like to move to the DC/Baltimore area and has some concern that Case may have better national recognition/reputation.
My wife went to Case Law. Loved it and her Case law degree has served her very well. This was the late 90s and Case was a top 35-ish law school then, ranked way above Pitt at the time. I don’t think it has the same status now but it still has good cache in the legal recruiting industry, I would say more so than Pitt. Since we are both 20-plus year lawyers and have never lived in PA, we probably have a little more objective perspective on it than most on the Lair. I’m surprised Pitt is so much more expensive. Assuming she’s getting a lot
of scholarship money-my wife’s Case Law Tuiition in the 90s was way more than 17k a year. And obviously cost is a big deal for any student who plans to take loans-given the cost difference along with the other considerations I’d say Case is almost a no brainer.
 
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