OT: The USWNT equal pay thing

[Fk_Pitt]

Yeah. With Iceland. All you do is make excuses that are over simplistic. Let's face it, until the there is a vibrant world class pro league in the US/North America, this will always be the issue, isn't it?

Probably true. But let’s face it, the US Men international ranking has always been respectable. Quarterfinal World Cup appearances in a sport that is likely #4-5 in this country is nothing to snuff at. We are in a down cycle right now where the program has gone with a youth movement...but in this decade, we won our World Cup group, which saw England finish 2nd. Imagine how they felt??? And we also beat the world #1 in the Confererations Cup. It’s possible to compete on the international stage...but we have to get more players training and playing for the best academies and best clubs in the world. Right now that’s not happening and UEFA rules don’t allow us to.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

here is a crazy question and please excuse me for my lack of international soccer knowledge but if there are some decent leagues in mexico or central America, what about some Hispanic dominated market in the US trying to get into that league as an expansion team..

go to southern California or sw texas, it's practically Mexico City north. has any of these leagues looked into expanding into the US? All you hear about is the nba or mlb looking into a mexico team, why cant it work the other way around?

That’s a SMF question. I don’t follow professional soccer in this hemisphere.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I won't say it again as much, some people here think I'm lying, but where I live, more kids try out for soccer than football, it's pretty rare for a kid to leave soccer for football, even though it does happen, and the teams are loaded with black kids, boys and girls. For every kids baseball game you see, there are probably 100 soccer games. One thing I do notice is that there are lots of Hispanics, but not many in the organized leagues as much as high school teams where of course is.

US Youth Soccer has been the largest youth SPORTS organization in the world for a very long time. Numbers aren’t the problem. Development is.

 

[pittdan77]

US Youth Soccer has been the largest youth SPORTS organization in the world for a very long time. Numbers aren’t the problem. Development is.

The sports that we, as a country, excel at are the ones where you can find kids playing pickup games or that have an amazing potential to make a ton of money for everyone involved. When (not if) pro soccer passes hockey in revenue, you'll see something change.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah. With Iceland. All you do is make excuses that are over simplistic. Let's face it, until the there is a vibrant world class pro league in the US/North America, this will always be the issue, isn't it?

Iceland is an extreme outlier. As Tyler Twellman said a billion times, they have the population of Corpus Christi, TX. However, even as Iceland's economy was crumbling as the first casualty of the financial crisis, they made an enormous investment into soccer. They have more licensed soccer coaches per capital than any country on Earth. They built dozens of indoor soccer fields and basically had all the kids play soccer 24/7. If Corpus Christi, TX did the same exact thing and all the best Corpus Christi athletes played soccer 24/7 with outstanding coaching, they would catch lightning in a bottle and win some games they shouldn't like Iceland did.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

The sports that we, as a country, excel at are the ones where you can find kids playing pickup games or that have an amazing potential to make a ton of money for everyone involved. When (not if) pro soccer passes hockey in revenue, you'll see something change.

Yep. ALL soccer being played here is under the supervision/direction and eyes of a coach, moms and dads, chasing a trophy for their own ego. Creativity is not being encouraged.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That’s a SMF question. I don’t follow professional soccer in this hemisphere.

I actually posted on bigsoccer.com a few years ago that MLS should expand by adding the top 10 or so Mexican clubs: Club America, Chivas, Santos Laguna, Tigres, Monterrey, Pachuca, Cruz Azul, etc. Have a 40 team league with 10 team divisions. East, Central, West, Mexico. Basically everyone said the Mexican league is too proud to ever do that.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I actually posted on bigsoccer.com a few years ago that MLS should expand by adding the top 10 or so Mexican clubs: Club America, Chivas, Santos Laguna, Tigres, Monterrey, Pachuca, Cruz Azul, etc. Have a 40 team league with 10 team divisions. East, Central, West, Mexico. Basically everyone said the Mexican league is too proud to ever do that.

Is MLS stronger?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Probably true. But let’s face it, the US Men international ranking has always been respectable. Quarterfinal World Cup appearances in a sport that is likely #4-5 in this country is nothing to snuff at. We are in a down cycle right now where the program has gone with a youth movement...but in this decade, we won our World Cup group, which saw England finish 2nd. Imagine how they felt??? And we also beat the world #1 in the Confererations Cup. It’s possible to compete on the international stage...but we have to get more players training and playing for the best academies and best clubs in the world. Right now that’s not happening and UEFA rules don’t allow us to.

In 2014, we got out of the Group of Death, beating a very good Ghana side, tying Portugal, who needed an unbelievable play by Ronaldo in stoppage time to equalize, only lost to Germany 1-0, and took a loaded Belgium team to Extra time in the Round of 16. Those results were as impressive as anything the women will do. That was the best USMNT in my opinion.

 

[Pitt79]

The US doesn't "focus" on women's soccer. It just so happens the best female athletes play soccer and basketball in this country because there is no football and pro softball isn't really a thing. Women's soccer and basketball are the 2 major women's sports by default.

As we know, the best Male athletes play football, baseball, and basketball (with a small fraction choosing hockey). This isn't hard to figure out. For the most part, we are sending our 2nd and 3rd tier athletes to compete with the top athletes from other countries.

But you just assume that all the NFL and NBA players would be soccer stars if they'd only had played soccer instead, and that's not necessarily true. And no, you where TOTALLY WRONG when you said that Lionel Messi would be a Hall of Fame 2B if had played baseball instead of soccer. It's just not that simple IMO

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Is MLS stronger?

Than Liga MX? Heck no, not even close.

 

[Pitt79]

Yeah. With Iceland. All you do is make excuses that are over simplistic. Let's face it, until the there is a vibrant world class pro league is a vibrant world class pro league in the US/North America, this will always be the issue, isn't it?

Does Brazil have a vibrant world class pro league? Argentina? It seems like all their top stars play in Europe too?

 

[Pitt79]

US Youth Soccer has been the largest youth SPORTS organization in the world for a very long time. Numbers aren’t the problem. Development is.

I don't know if its just cost alone keeping kids from playing. Lots of poor kids play, of course maybe they can't pay for the for profit clubs with the best coaches. School teams have many crappy part time coaches that's for sure! My daughter's freshman year JV coach was an extreme joke, practice was a pickup game while she graded papers. But who's going to finance this good development? MLS and other pro teams probably should have academies where they take in good players for free, just because they are good.

 

[Pitt79]

I actually posted on bigsoccer.com a few years ago that MLS should expand by adding the top 10 or so Mexican clubs: Club America, Chivas, Santos Laguna, Tigres, Monterrey, Pachuca, Cruz Azul, etc. Have a 40 team league with 10 team divisions. East, Central, West, Mexico. Basically everyone said the Mexican league is too proud to ever do that.

Why would they want too? They are the superior league. I assume their players are probably doing as well or better than MLS players, why become subservient to the US, it's the same reason I'd want a nuke if I was Iran, so I wouldn't be a part of the "US League" but something on my own, LOL

 

[DiehardPanther]

Rapinoe not starting.

 

[Pitt79]

Rapinoe not starting.

Is she inured?

 

[President Stache]

The knowledge that the men on that abortion of a team that is US men’s soccer, actually gets paid is sickening.

Equal pay is absurd, the women should be paid a lot more than the men.

Yeah, obvious right answer. I mean, if I rented camels here I would not make much money, but in the desert, I would make more (I imagine neither is a good career move). So, here in the USA, where the womens' team is far more popular (I honestly couldnt name a single mens team member) should get paid more right?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, obvious right answer. I mean, if I rented camels here I would not make much money, but in the desert, I would make more (I imagine neither is a good career move). So, here in the USA, where the womens' team is far more popular (I honestly couldnt name a single mens team member) should get paid more right?

Again, they are not "far" more popular. Their lawsuit states they generated $900,000 more in revenue, total over 3 years which shows they are ever so slightly more popular than the USMNT during one of their worst 3 year stretches ever. And the men bring in infinitely more global revenue but all you smart college grads feel that global revenue doesn't matter. Only domestic revenue should count. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Is she inured?

Good question. Nobody seems to know right now. She is dressed and on the field, but just has her hands on hips as though she is pissed.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Good question. Nobody seems to know right now. She is dressed and on the field, but just has her hands on hips as though she is pissed.

I like this move. Girls in England don't play soccer so the US should win this pretty easy. Rest her for the Final. In fact, maybe they should have put a B side out there to rest everybody.

 

[Pittski]

The main argument here is that the US women are light years better than the US men (comparatively speaking) and their games are watched more in person and on TV in the USA than their Male counterparts. On the surface, they have a great point. However, although the US men are mediocre at best, they play the world's most popular sport whereas women's pro soccer on the global scale may not be on of the Top 25 most popular sports on the planet. What this means is that the US men, by default receive a lot of money from FIFA, CONCACAF, and other federations that the US women do not. Also, if the USMNT wants to field a competitive team, they have to pay their players at a competitive rate to what the big boys pay. The problem for the women is that their sport, although popular in the USA has almost no popularity globally so the majority of their money comes from domestic "sales" while the USMNT freeloaders, in a sense off of the massive global popularity of men's International soccer.

So, while I believe we still have a long way to go close the pay gap, in general, in this country, I dont think the USWNT should be paid anywhere close to the USMNT. It's pretty simple, really. How much does the USMNT bring in (including all FIFA and overseas TV deals) and how much does the USWNT bring in? They should be paid in proportion to what revenue is brought in.

Do we still field a USMNT? I thought they moved that to a club sport designation.

 

[Pitt79]

Do we still field a USMNT? I thought they moved that to a club sport designation.

No, they are just about at the level they deserve to be, a country that emphasized soccer so little over the last century should be like the USAMNT is, only delusional, entitled Americans think that they should be competing for the World Cup

 

[Pitt79]

Girls in England don't play soccer so the US should win this pretty easy.

The film "Bend it like Beckham" proved that, English mothers think playing soccer makes girls gay.

 

[President Stache]

Again, they are not "far" more popular. Their lawsuit states they generated $900,000 more in revenue, total over 3 years which shows they are ever so slightly more popular than the USMNT during one of their worst 3 year stretches ever. And the men bring in infinitely more global revenue but all you smart college grads feel that global revenue doesn't matter. Only domestic revenue should count. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

I have zippo idea about soccer. How would the men's team bring in globally more money?

 

[HailtoPitt]

The main argument here is that the US women are light years better than the US men (comparatively speaking) and their games are watched more in person and on TV in the USA than their Male counterparts. On the surface, they have a great point. However, although the US men are mediocre at best, they play the world's most popular sport whereas women's pro soccer on the global scale may not be on of the Top 25 most popular sports on the planet. What this means is that the US men, by default receive a lot of money from FIFA, CONCACAF, and other federations that the US women do not. Also, if the USMNT wants to field a competitive team, they have to pay their players at a competitive rate to what the big boys pay. The problem for the women is that their sport, although popular in the USA has almost no popularity globally so the majority of their money comes from domestic "sales" while the USMNT freeloaders, in a sense off of the massive global popularity of men's International soccer.

So, while I believe we still have a long way to go close the pay gap, in general, in this country, I dont think the USWNT should be paid anywhere close to the USMNT. It's pretty simple, really. How much does the USMNT bring in (including all FIFA and overseas TV deals) and how much does the USWNT bring in? They should be paid in proportion to what revenue is brought in.

Sounds like the men's team is paid more as a result of socialism!

 

[Pittski]

No, they are just about at the level they deserve to be, a country that emphasized soccer so little over the last century should be like the USAMNT is, only delusional, entitled Americans think that they should be competing for the World Cup

Thanks Dad... I mean, it’s not like soccer isn’t a top 5 sport in both genders in the US, a nation of 330M people, AND the recipient of truckloads of money spent on youth programs, development, coaching, training the creation and growth of the MLS, etc. You’re right, we should totally get our asses whipped by Trinidad.

If you invested in a company like the US has invested soccer and got a similar return you’d go bankrupt. We have 100x the support and interest that the rag tag USMNT had when the Cup came to America and they competed. The problem isn’t a lack of emphasis, it’s that the Men’s team is soft like your skull.

 

[DiehardPanther]

My thoughts - the best male athletes in our country play sports that they can gain something financially from. That is why our men’s soccer team is never able to get over the hump.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sounds like the men's team is paid more as a result of socialism!

Sorta. The men's team rides the coattails of bigger soccer countries. Very similar to Pitt getting similar ACC revenue as Clemson and Northwestern getting the same as Ohio State

 

[pittdan77]

I like this move. Girls in England don't play soccer so the US should win this pretty easy. Rest her for the Final. In fact, maybe they should have put a B side out there to rest everybody.

Rest your hottest player in the semi's? Bold move, Cotton.

 

[Pitt79]

Thanks Dad... I mean, it’s not like soccer isn’t a top 5 sport in both genders in the US, a nation of 330M people, AND the recipient of truckloads of money spent on youth programs, development, coaching, training the creation and growth of the MLS, etc. You’re right, we should totally get our asses whipped by Trinidad.

If you invested in a company like the US has invested soccer and got a similar return you’d go bankrupt. We have 100x the support and interest that the rag tag USMNT had when the Cup came to America and they competed. The problem isn’t a lack of emphasis, it’s that the Men’s team is soft like your skull.

Lot's of money invested? OK, for what? Most of it is for kids to have an extracurricular activity coached by dads and moms, USAMNT, should not be competing for World Cups. relatively speaking USA is new to the sport on a high level. The USMNT actually has had decent success the last 30 years after MISSING THE WORLD CUP ALTOGETHER for 40 straight years.

Population again doesn't matter or else China and India would be 1 and 2.

 

[Pitt79]

My thoughts - the best male athletes in our country play sports that they can gain something financially from. That is why our men’s soccer team is never able to get over the hump.

That's not the whole thing, there's no guarantee that NFL or NBA players would be world class soccer pros if they had played that instead, maybe yes, maybe no?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I like this move. Girls in England don't play soccer so the US should win this pretty easy. Rest her for the Final. In fact, maybe they should have put a B side out there to rest everybody.

Still showing you don’t understand the women’s game.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Its not interesting to me because it's an unlevel playing field. For the same reason, I dont really watch the USA Men's or Women's Basketball teams. The US is a massive country whose best males play football and basketball and whose best females play soccer and basketball so it takes a major major upset if those teams are to ever lose. We have the talent, population, money, and infrastructure so to me its boring. Yay, USA wins some championship that they were huge favorites to win. I find it much more interesting to follow more of an underdog. That's just me. The USMNT is the equivalent of Pitt football. A mediocre program who pulls off a big win every so often to make you think they are capable of more.

You’re free to enjoy whatever you want. I’ll never blame anyone for what they enjoy. Lord knows I take enough $hit for enjoying women’s soccer.

But one thing I’ll say about this World Cup that you are likely missing because of your preconceived opinions...this has been a tremendous World Cup because of the quality of the women’s game in 2019. I argued the other day that there were as many as 14 good teams in the round of 16. There was even a good team or two that did not come out of group play. Some pundants today were saying there are 10 teams that were capable of winning this thing. Those facts in themselves have made this tourney pretty good. The fact is that the US was not huge favorites to win the tourney like you said, but we were co-favorites. But the US is the deepest team in the World Cup and they needed every bit of that depth to squeak by a very good English team. Without that depth, they likely lose.

I thought the US run ended 4 years ago. But maybe it ends this year. In 4 years it will be even better.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Still showing you don’t understand the women’s game.

I'm hoping that was a failed attempt at humor.

I don't think it was, but one can hope.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

here is a crazy question and please excuse me for my lack of international soccer knowledge but if there are some decent leagues in mexico or central America, what about some Hispanic dominated market in the US trying to get into that league as an expansion team..

go to southern California or sw texas, it's practically Mexico City north. has any of these leagues looked into expanding into the US? All you hear about is the nba or mlb looking into a mexico team, why cant it work the other way around?

They wouldn't be allowed, unless FIFA, the Mexican Soccer Federation and US Soccer all agreed to the move. And US Soccer would never agree to that, and FIFA probably wouldn't either.

Leagues are not even allowed to play a league game in a foreign country unless FIFA and the federations of the two countries involved agree to it. A company tried to hold a Spanish League game in Miami last year. They were not allowed (even though, believe it or not, SMF said that of course they would be allowed to).

MLS has to get a waiver from FIFA to allow Canadian teams in MLS. The only reason they are allowed is that all parties involved wanted it to happen, and they convinced FIFA that Canada would not ever be able to support a high level league all on their own.

 

[DiehardPanther]

That's not the whole thing, there's no guarantee that NFL or NBA players would be world class soccer pros if they had played that instead, maybe yes, maybe no?

It would be easy to find 10 or more really good soccer players out of all the talented football, baseball, and basketball players in our country if they started playing soccer at a young age and that was their only choice to make good money in the athletics arena.

 

[Pittski]

Lot's of money invested? OK, for what? Most of it is for kids to have an extracurricular activity coached by dads and moms, USAMNT, should not be competing for World Cups. relatively speaking USA is new to the sport on a high level. The USMNT actually has had decent success the last 30 years after MISSING THE WORLD CUP ALTOGETHER for 40 straight years.

Population again doesn't matter or else China and India would be 1 and 2.

Population doesn’t matter? In a DEVELOPED NATION THAT LEADS the WORLD it does!!! Keep fighting for the limitations, you can have them. When the former players of the USMNT state first hand that this team and program are an embarrassment it’s a pretty good indication...

I mean, I’m sure you (Pitt79) have a lot more experience and exposure to the situation than say, Alexi Lalas and Taylor Twellman as a former what, high school soccer player? College player? Ball boy for the Pittsburgh Spirit. Thanks for the excuses on behalf of the team. I mean, it’s totally acceptable that the US program lags behind 3rd world countries.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That's not the whole thing, there's no guarantee that NFL or NBA players would be world class soccer pros if they had played that instead, maybe yes, maybe no?

Yes they would. Well some would. Look, we all have played enough sports to understand some basics, world class basketball or football or even hockey players, they understand how plays work and develop, they know where to go to get open, and they are grilled on staying between the defender and the ball and the goal.

The fact that in Europe, South America and most of the world (Mexico), their best athletes play soccer over every other sport. Look in the Caribbean, why isn't the D-R better in soccer? Because their top kids play baseball. Same with Puerto Rico. In Canada, where the demographics more reflect the US soccer pool (white) , their best kids play hockey. You don't think Sidney Crosby wouldn't have been a star soccer player? The dude is a natural athlete, worker, IQ off the charts when it comes to sports, he hit a HR out of PNC Park a few years ago in batting practice. '

This is obviously the main difference. But SMF, you contradict yourself so many times, Iceland has focused money on soccer, they built some indoor facilities. Oh really? We don't have those in the US? I guarentee the US probably has 20 times more indoor facilities than Iceland. We just got less than good athletes and also soccer in this country is the leading entitiled "everyone gets a trophy" moment, where these kids from an early age, but still,there should be at least 20 "crossover" kids every decade from the vast millions we have playing sports that can comprise a competitive national team.

 

[Pitt79]

It would be easy to find 10 or more really good soccer players out of all the talented football, baseball, and basketball players in our country if they started playing soccer at a young age and that was their only choice to make good money in the athletics arena.

Probably, but still no guarantee the team as a whole would be any better than it is now as far as W/L record and tournament success.

 

[Pitt79]

Population doesn’t matter? In a DEVELOPED NATION THAT LEADS the WORLD it does!!! Keep fighting for the limitations, you can have them. When the former players of the USMNT state first hand that this team and program are an embarrassment it’s a pretty good indication...

I mean, I’m sure you (Pitt79) have a lot more experience and exposure to the situation than say, Alexi Lalas and Taylor Twellman as a former what, high school soccer player? College player? Ball boy for the Pittsburgh Spirit. Thanks for the excuses on behalf of the team. I mean, it’s totally acceptable that the US program lags behind 3rd world countries.

I'm sure the former players from the India National team say their countries team is an embarrassment too. It's not "acceptable" that USAMNT lags behind small, less developed countries, but hey, USA has no divine right to be the best at everything, if we are middle of the pack in soccer because of incompetence, a bad structure, bad coaching or whatever stuff happens, try to improve, but like I said, USA is not exceptional, so maybe we won't be good at everything? They need to keep trying.

You do realize that Curacao is mostly kids that grew up in the Netherlands, and are probably guys who left the Netherlands National team or played pro in Europe to be on that team.