OT: Watch Party for USA Women's Soccer game

[Sean Miller Fan]

2) What the USWNT gets vs the USMNT. Okay, now this is where there is debate. Again, it has nothing to do with "better", because they are separate sports. My contention in this country, and this country alone, the US women likely generate better ratings and revenue than the men. So I think the women have a point with US Soccer. To the victors goes the spoils. And because of their success and popularity, they should be paid accordingly.

I would love someone to have a thoughtful answer to this, that I have asked numerous times. Why shouldn't global revenue "count" for the men. I am sure other countries factor in global revenue. And unlike other countries, the US men have to compete with countries like Mexico and Germany for dual nationals and pay is part of the sales pitch.

The US men have to be paid at rate competitive with other like programs.

 

[topdecktiger]

2) What the USWNT gets vs the USMNT. Okay, now this is where there is debate. Again, it has nothing to do with "better", because they are separate sports. My contention in this country, and this country alone, the US women likely generate better ratings and revenue than the men. So I think the women have a point with US Soccer. To the victors goes the spoils. And because of their success and popularity, they should be paid accordingly.

The problem is, the bulk of revenue for US soccer comes from the men's World Cup. Neither the US men's or women's team would be able to fund US soccer (to an adequate level, anyway) just off their own ratings, ticket sales, etc. So, if you want to say the women should be paid accordingly because of better ratings & revenue (although your contention is actually incorrect), that's fine. However, when the real money (i.e. FIFA money) comes in, it's still going to favor the men, by a large margin.

Another point. One reason for the disparity is that the women signed the current contract, which gave the women more of a guaranteed salary (with a lower ceiling), because the women's game is not nearly as popular at the club level. The men can make good money from MLS, modest as the league is, whereas the women get a minimal salary from NWSL.

That's one reason I don't agree with people who are trying to claim women's soccer is so popular. It's kind of like women's gymnastics, which is only popular during a major tournament. The rest of the time nobody watches it, including a lot of people on these boards who are making the argument in favor of equal pay.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Can he take the high road?

That would be a no.

 

[pittdan77]

I really don't know anything about the larger debate but my 11 year old daughter (who just discovered soccer this spring) jumped up and did a fist pump when the US scored their first goal yesterday and was shouting and the TV the whole game. The game was compelling and physical. I actually enjoyed it (and that wasn't a given going into it).

She has asked before about the politics of it and she can't believe that a woman makes less than a man. As Pitt fans, it's really hollow to read some of these arguments about revenue generation as a factor in the reward and not shake my head. After all, when was the last time Pitt earned its share of the conference revenue? It's not always that simple.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Sunday 11AM/8AM vs Sunday 7PM/4PM is why. Not because some hillbilly Murican snowflakes were offended.

Sorry. Don’t buy it. I’m a fan. And I know how many soccer fans feel. I watched, my family watched, most of the people I know in the soccer community watched. But some didn’t. And those are all diehards. What about casual viewers?

But if it’s a 50% decline, that’s too significant than to blame just on a Game time. That’s a real signifant drop. When you’re in business, whether it’s a sport you’re trying to grow, or you own the bakery down the street, you can’t turn off customers.

 

[topdecktiger]

As Pitt fans, it's really hollow to read some of these arguments about revenue generation as a factor in the reward and not shake my head. After all, when was the last time Pitt earned its share of the conference revenue? It's not always that simple.

This is symptomatic of a larger problem. You can't base decisions on knee-jerk, emotional reactions. At some point, logic and reason have to come into play. There is simply more money in men's soccer than women's soccer. That's not the fault of the administrators of FIFA or US Soccer, club owners, or anyone else. It's the fault of the fans (men AND women) who don't show up and watch women's soccer at the same level they do for the men.

 

[McKee Place]

This is symptomatic of a larger problem. You can't base decisions on knee-jerk, emotional reactions. At some point, logic and reason have to come into play. There is simply more money in men's soccer than women's soccer. That's not the fault of the administrators of FIFA or US Soccer, club owners, or anyone else. It's the fault of the fans (men AND women) who don't show up and watch women's soccer at the same level they do for the men.

US fans (and the women team itself) should be grateful the rest of the world isn't very crazy about women's soccer (or more sexist etc). If the rest of the world cared as much as it does about men's teams, our women's team likely would fare as well as our men do.

 

[pittdan77]

This is symptomatic of a larger problem. You can't base decisions on knee-jerk, emotional reactions. At some point, logic and reason have to come into play. There is simply more money in men's soccer than women's soccer. That's not the fault of the administrators of FIFA or US Soccer, club owners, or anyone else. It's the fault of the fans (men AND women) who don't show up and watch women's soccer at the same level they do for the men.

That's actually 180 degrees opposite of the point I was making. Revenue generation only matters sometimes. It depends on the economy of the system. If Pitt only received the revenue it actually generated for the conference (as a proportion), none of us would have warm fuzzy feelings about being in the ACC. It's not totally a "fan" problem and there are definitely economic factors. Both sides have merit.

 

[Burgh15]

US fans (and the women team itself) should be grateful the rest of the world isn't very crazy about women's soccer (or more sexist etc). If the rest of the world cared as much as it does about men's teams, our women's team likely would fare as well as our men do.

But if they did, there would be more money in television contracts and thus a higher pay for women's soccer.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

But if they did, there would be more money in television contracts and thus a higher pay for women's soccer.

yep, good point. if that happens, worse case is they mirror the US Mens players and suck but make three times the money. so basically it's two options, dominate in a weak global sport and make less money or be weak globally and make a ton more money..

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I would love someone to have a thoughtful answer to this, that I have asked numerous times. Why shouldn't global revenue "count" for the men. I am sure other countries factor in global revenue. And unlike other countries, the US men have to compete with countries like Mexico and Germany for dual nationals and pay is part of the sales pitch.

The US men have to be paid at rate competitive with other like programs.

Global revenue is a FIFA issue. I don’t think anyone is arguing the fact that it is FIFA’s responsibility to look after global revenues and to run its organization as it sees fit. That is why no one has responded to that question.

The issue is how does the US Soccer Federation dole out its resources? It doesn’t matter that women can’t drive or vote in some of these Muslim countries, much less play soccer. Also, it doesn’t matter if women in some European nations don’t have the same opportunities as young ladies do here.

How the Dutch run their football Association is up to the Dutch. How are the Argentinians run their football operations is up to the Argentinians. This is a United States issue and in the United States we have long ago determined that women should have all the same rights and opportunities as men. That is why they should be given the same resources as the men’s team. There’s really nothing further to even argue about.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The US men have to be paid at rate competitive with other like programs.

Why?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

This is symptomatic of a larger problem. You can't base decisions on knee-jerk, emotional reactions. At some point, logic and reason have to come into play. There is simply more money in men's soccer than women's soccer. That's not the fault of the administrators of FIFA or US Soccer, club owners, or anyone else. It's the fault of the fans (men AND women) who don't show up and watch women's soccer at the same level they do for the men.

Right, but to take this argument to its logical conclusion, who is generating the lion’s share of that worldwide revenue? Is it the middle-of-the-road USNMT or is it the South American and European powers that regularly advance to the quarterfinals, semifinals and finals?

So, why should England share some of its purse with the US? Why should Brazil not take off a much larger percentage than we get?

People deride the women and say that the majority of the fans are only interested in women soccer whenever they are playing in the World Cup or the Olympics? I think that’s undeniably true. However, that’s also largely true of men’s soccer.

Do people really give a shit about Clint Dempsey or Landon Donovan in an off year? The answer is no! In fact, it is a resounding no! How many casual American sports fans — the types of fans people are describing here — can name those dude’s club team’s? Hell, how many of those types of fans can name five MLS teams?

I guarantee you that would be a very low percentage of Americans on both counts.

Now, there are enough fans of men’s soccer in this country to make it a solid minor-league type sport here – relative to the rest of the world. However, let’s not pretend that it’s the NFL because it’s just not.

That said, the sport is clearly growing here and you’d have to have your head in the sand to fail to see that. A large reason for that growth is because the European leagues have invested in the United States. That’s because they know that it’s good for the long-term viability and health of the sport if the United States were to become a factor in worldwide soccer. They are investing in us because we represent a large and wealthy potential target.

Why can people see that but not see how that exact same logic would be applied to women soccer and specifically the USNWT? It’s the exact same logic, guys. Guys, half the world’s population are women. If you can figure out a way to further engage them, you’re going to make a lot more money. That’s a really good target DNA.

You can’t be for socialism in some cases but against it in others. If you want to be a pure capitalist, fine, so be it. However, then the United States men’s team should only get a fraction of what France and Portugal get, right?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Why?

Maybe as an investment? Just thinking out loud here, but maybe US Soccer feels they need to invest in men’s soccer because it will yield better $ down the road? Do the men make more from the vastly larger pot if they qualify for a World Cup and make the knock rounds? Whereas investing in women’s soccer more won’t yield anything more than they are already getting?

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

US fans (and the women team itself) should be grateful the rest of the world isn't very crazy about women's soccer (or more sexist etc). If the rest of the world cared as much as it does about men's teams, our women's team likely would fare as well as our men do.

See, I see it exactly the other way. I think the rest of the world should be grateful that the United States passed Title IX way back in 1972. I think it is ultimately going to grow soccer in a way the world has never seen.

I think soccer federations the world over are going to benefit financially due largely to the success of the USNWT and the jealousy and competitiveness their success will have spawned.

You don’t think the Netherlands is going to pour more money into its program now that they’ve won the European championship and played in the World Cup Final? Of course it will!

You don’t think hosting a World Cup and doing so well before losing to the eventual tournament champion in the quarterfinals is going to help women’s soccer in France? Of course it will!

Do you think England is going to take kindly to the United States rubbing their nose in their duty after beating them at the sport they invented? Of course they won’t! They are going to pour money into that program like nobody’s business to make sure it never happens again.

What about China or Russia or Germany or Spain or Japan? Do you think they are going to sit idly back and let everyone surpass them? No chance!

The United States is going to pour more and more money into its program as well and everyone is going to get much, much better as a result of it.

This is a classic case of a rising tide lifting all ships. Also, we are not going to be the last nation to have the equal pay discussion. That debate is going to be had in all western nations over the next several years. We are having it before everyone else because of our cultural morays and because our women happen to have the most compelling case.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

What sense would it make for the US Soccer Federation to spend as much on the women's program as the men's? The best American female athletes play soccer and basketball. The best American Male athletes do not play soccer. To be honest, the USSF can probably spend $0 on the women's game and the youth clubs and colleges would still develop enough talented women to win World Cups. In contrast, the men's sides still has light years to go it seems and has been at a standstill for the last 20 years with no real talent bump outside of Pulisic.

These statements are probably all true but none of them mean much of anything relative to the discussion.

If the men’s program has failed to make meaningful strides in the past 20 years, that is not the fault of the women’s program and the USNWT absolutely should not be penalized for it.

The reason why women soccer players should be comparably supported as the men’s soccer players is for the exact same reasons as why women police officers, firefighters and soldiers are comparably supported relative to their male counterparts.

Are they physically capable of all the same things as their male counterparts? No, of course not. There are physiological differences between the genders that simply cannot be ignored or denied. However, not every job requires the same skillset and if they can carry out the duties of their particular job, they should be paid for it.

They are all asked to do a job and if they prove capable of meeting the requirements for that job, they should be compensated similarly to other people who hold similar, if not identical, jobs.

This is not rocket science.

Nobody is asking the women’s team to try to figure out a way to slow down Lionel Messi or Christiana Ronaldo. Therefore, how they would fare against those guys is completely irrelevant. The United States did not create a women’s division, FIFA did.

We are the United States of America and it is the right thing to do, regardless of anyone’s gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. Provided they can do the job, and clearly our women’s team has conclusively proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can do the job that is asked of them, they should be compensated at the same rate as their male counterparts. Any other approach is straight up discriminatory.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Global revenue is a FIFA issue. I don’t think anyone is arguing the fact that it is FIFA’s responsibility to look after global revenues and to run its organization as it sees fit. That is why no one has responded to that question.

The issue is how does the US Soccer Federation dole out its resources? It doesn’t matter that women can’t drive or vote in some of these Muslim countries, much less play soccer. Also, it doesn’t matter if women in some European nations don’t have the same opportunities as young ladies do here.

How the Dutch run their football Association is up to the Dutch. How are the Argentinians run their football operations is up to the Argentinians. This is a United States issue and in the United States we have long ago determined that women should have all the same rights and opportunities as men. That is why they should be given the same resources as the men’s team. There’s really nothing further to even argue about.

But what is Rapinoe and the others railing against Doc? Is it against the funding and money they receive from the US? Or is it the overall pool for the winners in FIFA's Women's World Cup vs the Men's? I mean, $6 Billion vs $131 Million. That gap is indefensible if you are trying to equate pay. Again, the best example of this would be the NBA vs the WNBA? Should the WNBA players make as much as NBA players? NO! Why? Interest.

Now take Wimbledon. You definitely can argue that the Men and Women are fairly equal as far as revenue/interest. Same stadium. Same events. Same TV packages. And they get compensated the same.

 

[Pitt69]

The problem is, the bulk of revenue for US soccer comes from the men's World Cup. Neither the US men's or women's team would be able to fund US soccer (to an adequate level, anyway) just off their own ratings, ticket sales, etc. So, if you want to say the women should be paid accordingly because of better ratings & revenue (although your contention is actually incorrect), that's fine. However, when the real money (i.e. FIFA money) comes in, it's still going to favor the men, by a large margin.

Another point. One reason for the disparity is that the women signed the current contract, which gave the women more of a guaranteed salary (with a lower ceiling), because the women's game is not nearly as popular at the club level. The men can make good money from MLS, modest as the league is, whereas the women get a minimal salary from NWSL.

That's one reason I don't agree with people who are trying to claim women's soccer is so popular. It's kind of like women's gymnastics, which is only popular during a major tournament. The rest of the time nobody watches it, including a lot of people on these boards who are making the argument in favor of equal pay.

From the Cheap Seats; your first paragraph nails it.

 

[PerchMan]

I'm usually not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I think someone on here said it and I agree. Maybe men shouldn't be so highly paid? They are largely inept. I know we can beat Trinidad and Jamaica, but the Euros and S Americans are a different ballgame. Maybe it should be a matter of downgrading the pay for the men's team and instead offer incentive laden contracts? You knock the men down to $90k a match (which I think is what the USWNT made, yes?), and who is going to want to leave their off-season to begin training...then we continue to not qualify for Men's World Cups as we job to Mexico I would think take the allotments and invest in youth programs more to grow a program while taking the early lumps on fielding cruddy teams? No different than now. Or is this money that gets allotted from FIFA to US Soccer Org earmarked or escrowed? Has to be spent a certain way like collegiate donations/endowments?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Good. To this untrained eye, I have watched some of these guys, Arriola, Ream, many others, they are no better athletes than Ray Vinopal. This is the best we got? Really???

Yeah. But you can watch the EPL on a Sunday morning and say that while watching an Arsenal vs Man U game.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I was going to point that out but figured it probably wasn't worth it. Her winning the Golden Ball was the equivalent of the Jason White Heisman. She was the most visible player on the best team, she wasn't the best player on the best team.

Here’s a sample of her horrific stats from the Final yesterday, which may have been statistically better than her Sweden, Spain and France game. But pointing this out brings scorn from those with clouded opinions and twisted motivations.

(For the record, and to be fair, she was a top 3 player on the team for me 4 years ago, and also assisted on my favorite soccer goal of all time...which I may link for everyone’s enjoyment).

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

But what is Rapinoe and the others railing against Doc? Is it against the funding and money they receive from the US? Or is it the overall pool for the winners in FIFA's Women's World Cup vs the Men's? I mean, $6 Billion vs $131 Million. That gap is indefensible if you are trying to equate pay. Again, the best example of this would be the NBA vs the WNBA? Should the WNBA players make as much as NBA players? NO! Why? Interest.

Now take Wimbledon. You definitely can argue that the Men and Women are fairly equal as far as revenue/interest. Same stadium. Same events. Same TV packages. And they get compensated the same.

Well, I don’t follow it closely so I don’t really know what they are railing against. I’m just making the point that at the US level they do have some control and at the US level there’s no real argument. The women have won the argument, AFAIAC.

They may have a problem with FIFA as well but that’s a lot more complicated journey because of cultural differences, revenue disparity, power structure, internal/external politics, etc.

I am just making the point that in the United States those issues have already been settled in the courts and in cultural opinion. At this point, the real question is what is US Soccer doing here? Why would they insist on taking a black eye in an argument they cannot possibly win either legally or in the court of public opinion?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Why?

Because if the USMNT paid at a lower rate than similar-level teams....let's say like Sweden, Poland, Mexico, Switzerland, etc, the best US players simply wouldn't play. As I said, Christian Pulisic may be a nice kid and he may love to play for the US but he has an agent and he isn't playing for less than what his club teammates are making for their respective countries. It's amazing how people dont understand the business side of this. Its really very simple.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yeah. But you can watch the EPL on a Sunday morning and say that while watching an Arsenal vs Man U game.

yeah, but that is two teams, granted from a premiere league, we are talking the preeminent sports country on this earth........

 

[pittdan77]

Here’s a sample of her horrific stats from the Final yesterday, which may have been statistically better than her Sweden, Spain and France game. But pointing this out brings scorn from those with clouded opinions and twisted motivations.

(For the record, and to be fair, she was a top 3 player on the team for me 4 years ago, and also assisted on my favorite soccer goal of all time...which I may link for everyone’s enjoyment).

View embedded media

She was hurt but you could easily argue she carried them in a couple of games before the injury.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Because if the USMNT paid at a lower rate than similar-level teams....let's say like Sweden, Poland, Mexico, Switzerland, etc, the best US players simply wouldn't play. As I said, Christian Pulisic may be a nice kid and he may love to play for the US but he has an agent and he isn't playing for less than what his club teammates are making for their respective countries. It's amazing how people dont understand the business side of this. Its really very simple.

So you are a closet Republican afterall.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

These statements are probably all true but none of them mean much of anything relative to the discussion.

If the men’s program has failed to make meaningful strides in the past 20 years, that is not the fault of the women’s program and the USNWT absolutely should not be penalized for it.

The reason why women soccer players should be comparably supported as the men’s soccer players is for the exact same reasons as why women police officers, firefighters and soldiers are comparably supported relative to their male counterparts.

Are they physically capable of all the same things as their male counterparts? No, of course not. There are physiological differences between the genders that simply cannot be ignored or denied. However, not every job requires the same skillset and if they can carry out the duties of their particular job, they should be paid for it.

They are all asked to do a job and if they prove capable of meeting the requirements for that job, they should be compensated similarly to other people who hold similar, if not identical, jobs.

This is not rocket science.

Nobody is asking the women’s team to try to figure out a way to slow down Lionel Messi or Christiana Ronaldo. Therefore, how they would fare against those guys is completely irrelevant. The United States did not create a women’s division, FIFA did.

We are the United States of America and it is the right thing to do, regardless of anyone’s gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. Provided they can do the job, and clearly our women’s team has conclusively proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can do the job that is asked of them, they should be compensated at the same rate as their male counterparts. Any other approach is straight up discriminatory.

There is not a separate division for female police officers or firefighters or engineers. They are expected to do the SAME exact job as a man. If they cant do the same job as a man, they dont work there. Criminals don't go easy on female cops just because.

Female soccer players are just obviously a lot worse at soccer than males (at the highest levels). We know this. It's simple biology. They arent doing "equal work." They may train just as hard but they are beating other women's teams. If the USWNT can suit up and beat the Mexican men, the I'd be all for them making as much money.

Why shouldn't WNBA players make as much as NBA players then? They train just as hard.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

She was hurt but you could easily argue she carried them in a couple of games before the injury.

Actually her stats were worse.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

There is not a separate division for female police officers or firefighters or engineers. They are expected to do the SAME exact job as a man. If they cant do the same job as a man, they dont work there. Criminals don't go easy on female cops just because.

Female soccer players are just obviously a lot worse at soccer than males (at the highest levels). We know this. It's simple biology. They arent doing "equal work." They may train just as hard but they are beating other women's teams. If the USWNT can suit up and beat the Mexican men, the I'd be all for them making as much money.

Why shouldn't WNBA players make as much as NBA players then? They train just as hard.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....you keep on going back to this argument and it is stupid. Even for an educated, informed, liberal like you. It has nothing to do with "who's better"? The Men's and Women's Champs get paid the same money. There is no doubt the Men's champ would beat the women 100% of the time. It is just the tourney shares the same venue and event, and women's tennis is as popular as men's, and the revenue streams are fairly close. So that justifies it.

As you say, it is about the economics. You are right. Don't stray from this and think this is merit based based on overall talent and athletic ability. It is not that. It is entertainment. I mean, there are 1000's more talented musician than say Jay Z or Mariah Carey, but that is who the people want to see and listen to. Stop circling back to this point, it just doesn't matter about this. It is just like the NBA and the WNBA. The WNBA All Star team couldn't beat a Men's D2 basketball team, but that is not why there is a difference in pay. It is different because the NBA is established and Men's basketball is just more popular as is soccer.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Here's some numbers. Like I said, really to further the reach and the interest world wide and therefore revenue and pool money, it would actually be better for the USA to lose. Plus, Americans love to play that underdog role. Have someone beat us in the final, it would galvanize the public for revenge.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/07/08/womens-world-cup-final-tv-ratings-uswnt-netherlands

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....you keep on going back to this argument and it is stupid. Even for an educated, informed, liberal like you. It has nothing to do with "who's better"? The Men's and Women's Champs get paid the same money. There is no doubt the Men's champ would beat the women 100% of the time. It is just the tourney shares the same venue and event, and women's tennis is as popular as men's, and the revenue streams are fairly close. So that justifies it.

As you say, it is about the economics. You are right. Don't stray from this and think this is merit based based on overall talent and athletic ability. It is not that. It is entertainment. I mean, there are 1000's more talented musician than say Jay Z or Mariah Carey, but that is who the people want to see and listen to. Stop circling back to this point, it just doesn't matter about this. It is just like the NBA and the WNBA. The WNBA All Star team couldn't beat a Men's D2 basketball team, but that is not why there is a difference in pay. It is different because the NBA is established and Men's basketball is just more popular as is soccer.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....you keep on going back to this argument and it is stupid. Even for an educated, informed, liberal like you. It has nothing to do with "who's better"? The Men's and Women's Champs get paid the same money. There is no doubt the Men's champ would beat the women 100% of the time. It is just the tourney shares the same venue and event, and women's tennis is as popular as men's, and the revenue streams are fairly close. So that justifies it.

As you say, it is about the economics. You are right. Don't stray from this and think this is merit based based on overall talent and athletic ability. It is not that. It is entertainment. I mean, there are 1000's more talented musician than say Jay Z or Mariah Carey, but that is who the people want to see and listen to. Stop circling back to this point, it just doesn't matter about this. It is just like the NBA and the WNBA. The WNBA All Star team couldn't beat a Men's D2 basketball team, but that is not why there is a difference in pay. It is different because the NBA is established and Men's basketball is just more popular as is soccer.

You cant use women's tennis to justify any argument. Same with women's beach volleyball. Those are the 2 womens sports that outdraw the men. Usually, people want to see the very best level of play but not in these 2 sports and most of that is due to the attractiveness of the female competitors and clothing or lack thereof that they are wearing.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

You can’t be for socialism in some cases but against it

You cant use women's tennis to justify any argument. Same with women's beach volleyball. Those are the 2 womens sports that outdraw the men. Usually, people want to see the very best level of play but not in these 2 sports and most of that is due to the attractiveness of the female competitors and clothing or lack thereof that they are wearing.

i think women’s tennis is more entertaining and the outfits are not the reason. Longer volleys equals more entertainment vs men’s who have one or two returns tops.

The outfits aren’t all that skimpy, trust me, I’m really looking.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You cant use women's tennis to justify any argument. Same with women's beach volleyball. Those are the 2 womens sports that outdraw the men. Usually, people want to see the very best level of play but not in these 2 sports and most of that is due to the attractiveness of the female competitors and clothing or lack thereof that they are wearing.

I KNOW!!!! You keep on making my point for me, then arguing against it with the "well the women can't beat the men". That's my point, it isn't who can beat who on the field (pitch) it is who draws more eyeballs and therefore revenue. You are right, you said it above in another post "it is about economics" and bingo, but you know what is happening, your jealousy that the US women's program is formidable and the men's is mediocre creeps in and you have to remind us that the men can still beat the women. Yeah, we know. But that is not the argument.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Can we compare tv ratings of the games yesterday? Anyone have the tv ratings if the girls game vs the men’s game against Mexico last night?

 

[McKee Place]

But if they did, there would be more money in television contracts and thus a higher pay for women's soccer.

Oh, maybe. I don't give a squat on that pay issue. Just glad the US wins. And that's how they win, methinks... because most other countries are sexist and don't care about women's sports like they do men's.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The best quality Jozy has is that he's so strong. He can hold up the play while the midfield catches up. His finishing is very lack luster. He is a very poor mans version of Romelu Lukaku. Similar bodies, similar styles...except Lukaku finishes.

That's a good comparison.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Oh, maybe. I don't give a squat on that pay issue. Just glad the US wins. And that's how they win, methinks... because most other countries are sexist and don't care about women's sports like they do men's.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. Women in some countries still aren't permitted to vote, drive vehicles, and be formally educated - let alone play sports. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the best women's soccer is still played in the "Western" nations: the US, Canada, and Western Europe.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

She was hurt but you could easily argue she carried them in a couple of games before the injury.

You could argue that, but you'd be wrong.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Let’s make this simple
We aren’t talking about salaries in clubs and pro leagues-
We’re talking about pay from the national program.

And let’s make this clear-
The United States program should pay the equally.
End of story .

Nothing else matters

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Here's the whole crux of the matter for me. The US women are paid what they are paid because they have a union, and their union negotiated them a contract that they all (or at least the vast majority of them) agreed to. If having the same deal as the men was what they really wanted and what they really felt they deserved then why didn't ask for that and why didn't they hold out for that?

And to answer my own question, there is a reason they didn't hold out for that. And part of that is that the women get things that the men don't as a part of their deal. For instance if they announce tomorrow at noon that everyone has agreed that going forward the women get the exact same deal as the men the over/under on when the announcement comes that the NWSL has ceased operations would probably be set at around 12:05. Because without the money that US Soccer puts into the NWSL there is no way that more than one or two NWSL franchises can operate at anything approaching a sustainable level. So the US women are going to all have to go overseas if they want to play at a higher than semi-professional level. On the other hand, US Soccer doesn't put one dollar into the operation of MLS.

Then, of course, those women better hurry out and buy themselves a health insurance plan, because one of the things that the women wanted and got that the men don't have is health insurance for the players and their families. The men don't get that, if for no other reason than the men don't need it because the clubs that the men play for all bring in enough money that they have health insurance through their club teams, not through US Soccer.

Then the other thing is that the top players, Rapinoe, Morgan, all the 23 women on the team plus a few others, need to hope that they don't get hurt. Because when Alex Morgan was hurt and couldn't play with the national team she still got paid money from US Soccer. When one of the men's players gets hurt and they don't play, whether that's Christain Pulisic or whether it's Sean Johnson, they don't get any money. The men only get paid when they are on the roster for a game, if they can't play for any reason, injury, club situation, whatever, they get nothing.