OT: Where Does Ben Rank?...
- Thread starter TheWerewolfFromTwilight
- Start date
I haven't given it a ton of thought yet, but I'm thinking even top 5 is a definite. And possibly top 3. Mean Joe is number 1, right? I'm not even sure that #2 is all that obvious. Personally, I put Ben over Bradshaw and Troy.
Yeah I agree with that. More interesting, where does AB rank in the annuals of Steelers WR's? And all time?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't know how to evaluate Ben against the guys in the 70's because they started at the bottom. Ben walked into a team that was already a Super Bowl contender. To me, when you think about the "greatest of all time," shouldn't the guy be widely regarded as one of the top two or three at his position while he played or be something of a transformational player. Troy was transformational. Rod Woodson was one of the best in the game when he played. Was Ben, compared to Brady or Favre or Brees? Not arguing he isn't, I'm just not sure how I feel.
To me, a lot of it has to do with his position. I don't necessarily think he was a better quarterback than Polamalu was a safety, for example, but if the argument is "greatest Steeler" then it's hard for me to discount the fact that he's involved in every offensive play. It's definitely not black and white, though.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I guess it depends on how you wish to evaluate it. The QB has a huge impact on the team, for sure. Since we're using Polamalu, he didn't touch the ball on every play but if you listen to people talk, he was a factor in every play. You didn't snap the ball until you knew where he was and teams ran their offense around him, not at him. It's not a simple debate.
which hall of famer you kicking out of the current top ten to make room for him?
While he's #2 on the all-time Steeler QB list, he should be around 9 or 10 on the all time Steeler team list.
Of the post merger HOF Steelers, I'd have Ben above Shell, Swann, and Bettis, with Franco and Faneca in the same ballpark as him.
To me, he's #2 all time most important after Mean Joe. Just like drafting Mean Joe ignited Super Bowl Era #1, drafting Ben made Super Bowl Era #2 happen, if Cowher had drafted a DB or OT that year, they'd still be selling "One for the Thumb" T Shirts.
Not if they'd have kept riding Bam Morris in the second half in '96! But I think that's a good point.
Another side to this, I think, is trying to decide how many point to detract from Ben for not really getting us anywhere from 2012 - present. I see Tomlin lambasted for this all the time, and probably rightfully so, but how much of it falls on Ben?
I mean, I tend to think he'll mostly just be remembered for everything he accomplished in those first seven years, so maybe "detract" is a strong word. But this is kind of a debate within a debate.
I mean, I tend to think he'll mostly just be remembered for everything he accomplished in those first seven years, so maybe "detract" is a strong word. But this is kind of a debate within a debate.
You may be right there, but by that time, Super Bowl XXX was history and it was starting to look like Cowher would never win a Super Bowl. IMO Cowher severely undervalued the QB position for years, He thought if they just had great D and rode the Bus, all they needed was a game manager QB to avoid mistakes, and It worked fine in regular season, but then when they needed to come from behind in a playoff game, good night. A REAL QB was the missing piece in Cowher's first decade.
did not see most of them in the top ten anyways. My ten below in no particular order..so Mel Blount has to go then..
Mel Blount
Terry Bradshaw
Dermontti Dawson
Joe Greene
Jack Ham
Franco Harris
Jack Lambert
Troy Polamalu
John Stallworth
Mike Webster
Remember, Ben will be a 1st ballot HOFer himself. I mean, he was a QB, went to 3 Super Bowls, won 2. He's top 10 and there is no doubt.
Ben over Dawson. Easy. And Stallworth? I might put Woodson in over him.
interesting...so would dump a top ten all time NFL center for an at or around 20-25 all time NFL QB....
#1 @ #2 are clearly Joe Green and Ernie Stautner. After that it gets tough. I'd still have to put Lambert, Harris and Blount ahead of Ben because they were all the best at their position for multiple seasons while winning championships.
Ben may have been the best QB in the NFL for a season or 2 but not while winning anything and he never seemed like a solid leader like Troy, Woodson and Bradshaw were.
That's a tough top 10 to break into.
Ben may have been the best QB in the NFL for a season or 2 but not while winning anything and he never seemed like a solid leader like Troy, Woodson and Bradshaw were.
That's a tough top 10 to break into.
Probably a matter of preference, but I'd be inclined to put the 100th best QB of all time in over the 10th best center, just because I think that former would have a much greater WAR (if I may employ a fictitious baseball stat that is in no way actually quantifiable).
He has to be in the top 10 if not #1 in degrading women and being an all around piece of trash.
It seems to me that the young woman in the bar that was wearing a "DTF" button and following Ben's entourage around did plenty to degrade herself.
I think some of you guys don't know that if you were making a list of the top five cornerbacks in NFL history that Mel Blount is on it. They literally changed the rules of the game because Mel Bount was too good.
The notion that Ben Roethlisberger would rank higher on an all time Stiller list than Mel Blount is insane.
The notion that Ben Roethlisberger would rank higher on an all time Stiller list than Mel Blount is insane.
Yes. No doubt about it. Ben is number 2 on the list below Joe Greene and above Terry Bradshaw. I’d put Mel Blount fourth.
It's funny, you know how we always talk about how well an All Time Pitt team would rank? I would think Pitt's All Time team is easily top 8, probably top 5.
I am thinking the Steelers All Time team would be #1.
I am thinking the Steelers All Time team would be #1.
They would be strong at every position except on the offensive line. All those hall of famers, and only three of them on the offensive line, and two of them played center.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I mean now you got Faneca at Guard. Kolb was a fringe HOFer. I mean, their OLine overall talent was not bad. The other position that was "meh" maybe TE. But if you think about it, those being adequate, everything else.....tough to stop.
QB Ben/Bradshaw
RB Harris/Bettis
WR Yikes Swann/Stallworth/Ward/Brown
TE Miller
C Webster
G Dawson (originally played)
G Faneca
T Kolb
T Larry Brown? Leon Searcy?
DE Cam
DE LC Greenwood
DT Joe Greene
DT Ernie Stautner
MLB Jack Lambert
OLB Jack Ham
OLB Kevin Greene
OLB Joey Porter
OLB TJ Watts
CB Mel Blount
CB Rod Woodson
S Troy Polemalu
S Donnie Shell
DB Mike Wagner
DB Joe Haden
I dunno...this is all off the top of my head and no research
In my opinion, AB is the best Steelers WR of all time. He has more 1st team All Pros than Swann and Stallworth combined. Don't think it's that close to be honest with you.
I know. And it is a different sport now to be honest. But those guys also were so good in the biggest games.
Dawson at G might be cheating a bit. If so Sam Davis could be slid in there. He was no slouch. A lot of the guys who played with him thought he was under appreciated. And Larry Brown was too. They had so much talent (super high end talent) that guys like them may not have gotten the recognition they deserved. You could throw Donnie Shell and LC Greenwood in that category too. They were known as good players but may have gotten more official honors if they had those careers/years on another team. People were probably sick of the Steelers and who could blame them if you weren’t a fan.
Agree, it's hard to say who was most important to the Steelers because Swann and Stallworth won so many huge games with the Steelers and AB didn't. If we're defining "best" to mean "made the most history with the franchise," then it's AB is not top 2. If we define "best" to mean "most talented according to their peers," then AB's four 1st Team All Pros are decisive. AB was literally the best WR in the entire NFL for 4-5 years, which is fairly incredible for a 6th round guy from Central Michigan.
And as we found out later on why this super talented kid was at Central Michigan? He was a knucklehead.
