https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...th-Fayette-Pine-Richland/stories/201911070144
The ever changing demographics of western PA. It’s not your fathers WPIAL.
The ever changing demographics of western PA. It’s not your fathers WPIAL.
OT: WPIAL new enrollment and classifications
- Thread starter Fk_Pitt
- Start date
That’s lame for PR. They have dominated 6A even with the low enrollment.
• Student enrollment is projected to increase at a modest rate over the next decade from our current level of 4,565 students to approximately 4,900 students in the 2025 – 2026 school year.
So their enrollment is expected to trend slightly up and they're still going down to 5A despite all the wins? Boo!!!
Yeah but it’s not like 5A is less competitive is it? I think I’d rather be in 5A for football.
I'm glad to see they listened to me and are considering doing the football conferences by geography and not classification. They are going to have teams within 1 class play in the same conference. This only makes sense. I would combine 5A and 6A like this:
North
6A
NA
SV
CC
Butler
5A
PR
NH
Shaler
Kiski
FC
East
6A
Norwin
Hempfield
5A
PH
WH
Gateway
P-T
FR
Latrobe
South
6A
Lebo
CM
Baldwin
5A
USC
BP
PT
SF
Moon
WA
Just have a 16 team playoff and have the farthest advancing 6A team enter the PIAA 6A playoffs and the farthest advancing 5A team enter the 5A playoffs. So if PR beats NA at Heinz, they both advance to states.
North
6A
NA
SV
CC
Butler
5A
PR
NH
Shaler
Kiski
FC
East
6A
Norwin
Hempfield
5A
PH
WH
Gateway
P-T
FR
Latrobe
South
6A
Lebo
CM
Baldwin
5A
USC
BP
PT
SF
Moon
WA
Just have a 16 team playoff and have the farthest advancing 6A team enter the PIAA 6A playoffs and the farthest advancing 5A team enter the 5A playoffs. So if PR beats NA at Heinz, they both advance to states.
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I think it's a little less competitive but you make a good point.Counter point: at some point it just makes 6A too small to be workable, which is the whole problem with the PIAA system. Will it eventually just be North Allegheny playing Central 10 times in a row? Will Mt Lebo be next? Their enrollment is slowly declining last I saw.
If you think the WPIAL is working right in the bigger divisions, go east a hundred miles, it's a disaster in the middle of the state.
PR could choose to play up in 6A regardless. It does happen.
Ntop started another thread on the same issue. I commented there. I’m sure the PIAA has a logical reason for where they set things...I just don’t know what the reasons are. What I would like for the state to do is give wpial the authority to set its own numbers. Meaning, if it’s better for wpial balance for them to slot a team in 6A instead of 5A, they should be allowed to do so. I’d like for Wpial to take the 3-5 largest 5A schools and move them up (if they are close enough in numbers to justify it). The more teams in a class, the more flexibility wpial may have in doing 2 conferences that more geographic sense. Plus, playing in a league that has just one division, conference or section is utterly nonsensical.
Meant to type "isn't", first of all.
There are just far fewer schools in the top four divisions. Doesn't get better til you get to Harrisburg/York/Lancaster.
Not that anyone cares because this example isn’t football... but I am involved in another wpial sport. In that sport, our WPIAL largest classification gets to advance its top 2 teams to the PIAA playoffs. Meanwhile, District 3 gets 4 teams and District 1 get 6 teams!!! How is that equitable?? I know the amount of PIAA playoff spots is based on the number of schools a state District has in that class...but come on! Finish 6th in District 1 and you can still win a state title. Finish 6th in WPIAL and you aren’t even close. Meanwhile, the #6 team in WPIAL in many years is just as good as the champion or runner up. The #6 team in WPIAL is just as good or better than the #6 team in District 1.
There are so many things about the PIAA that nobody will ever really understand. You'd think it would be based on the number of teams in a district in each classification.
They take the number of boys or girls in this year's sophomore and junior classes. Then they make cutoff points for respective classes, dividing them into 6 equal classes. You fall where you fall. 2 year cycle.
Statewide. As an example say there are 300 schools playing football. The enrollments are listed most to least. Top 50 are 6A. Next 50 are 5A etcetera.
Basketball is slightly different because there are more teams playing basketball but the method is the same.
Not sure which underclasses they use. Used to be soph and junior. Could be Freshman and sophomore now or all three.
Ok. So the top 50 schools are 6A, of which 30 can be in district 1 and 9 in district 7?
I would do 4A like this and hopefully AG and Uniontown decide to play in the WPIAL. AG played an independent schedule last year and Uniontown, despite being 3A narrowly voted to stay in the WPIAL.
South [Fayette, Washington, and East (GS, Ind)]
AG
Uniontown
LH
Trinity
GS
Indiana
Ringgold
Southern Allegheny Co. (plus BV, Montour, Plum)
TJ
WM
McK
BV
CV
Plum
Montour
Hodgepodge of schools: Far North (NC, Beaver, Near North (Hampton, Mars), A/K Valley (Knoch, Highlands, Valley)
Mars
Beaver
New Castle
Hampton
Knoch
Highlands
Armstrong
Top 4 from each conference make the playoffs.
South [Fayette, Washington, and East (GS, Ind)]
AG
Uniontown
LH
Trinity
GS
Indiana
Ringgold
Southern Allegheny Co. (plus BV, Montour, Plum)
TJ
WM
McK
BV
CV
Plum
Montour
Hodgepodge of schools: Far North (NC, Beaver, Near North (Hampton, Mars), A/K Valley (Knoch, Highlands, Valley)
Mars
Beaver
New Castle
Hampton
Knoch
Highlands
Armstrong
Top 4 from each conference make the playoffs.
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Two games on the same day is going to be tough. I hope they at least guarantee one game on Friday and the other on Saturday every weekend.
The WPIAL can set their sections up any way they want. The WPIAL can determine their class champions any way that they want. If the WPIAL wants to mix all the 5A and 6A teams together, they can do that. If the WPIAL wanted to mix teams from all the classes into the same sections, they could do that too.
Because the number of slots in the state tournament is determined by how many teams from each district are in that class. There are 134 AAAA girls soccer teams in this current cycle. 48 of them are from District 1. They have, by far, the most schools, so they get, by far, the most spots in the state tournament. District 3 has 30 teams. The WPIAL has 20. District 1 has 36% of the teams, they get 37.5% of the tournament slots. District 3 has 22% of the teams, they get 25% of the tournament slots. The WPIAL has 15% of the teams, they get 12.5% of the tournament slots.
Yeah. That’s what I said.
But I’m glad you found that number and it makes my point. So a district gets a playoff spot for every 8 teams in a class based on District 1 getting 6 spots. . For the past two years in girls AAAA, wpial had 22 teams. Wouldn’t it have been nice to have 24 teams and get a 3rd PIAA playoff spot? Not only that but they could have had a 4th section and split things equitably. Maybe Wpial should manipulate things? The only problem is if you’re Plum or Oakland Catholic and Wpial tells you that in spite of your enrollment number, you’re moving to to AAAA. They’d fight that to the end.
But the point is that it’s not equitable. On the flip side, wpial has an abundance of class A schools compared to the other districts, so we overload the state tournament in the lower classification.
There has to be a better way. That’s all I’m saying.
They don't actually have the authority to tell any school they have to play up. That's a decision for the school boards. Even if the WPIAL put a AAA school in a AAAA section that still doesn't change the number of AAAA schools, which is what matters to the PIAA.
District 1 and WPIAL are complete opposites. These numbers are from football, but the trend applies to all sports. You are saying it is inequitable to have District 1 have more AAAAAA qualifiers than WPIAL. I don't understand why. Every district should qualify the same rough % of teams from each of its classifications.
District 1
- 11 Schools in A-AAAA
- 58 Schools in AAAAA-AAAAAA
WPIAL
- 88 Schools in A-AAAA
- 33 Schools in AAAAA-AAAAAA
I get it. I’ve said that. It’s as if schools have merged in the eastern half of the state but for whatever reason, schools have not in the western side. We need the Monessen’s to merge with the Ringgolds, the Elizabeth Forwards to merge with the Belle Vernon’s, and the hopewell’s to merge with the Blackhawks...all for the sake of athletics!!!!
. I don’t expect WPIAL to qualify 6 teams in this sport like District 1. But it would be nice to qualify 3. That way, you get to a district semi and stumble, you can still earn your way in to the state playoffs by winning a consolation game. There is way too much quality in WPIAL to only qualify 2 teams in the highest classification.
I get it. I’ve said that. It’s as if schools have merged in the eastern half of the state but for whatever reason, schools have not in the western side. We need the Monessen’s to merge with the Ringgolds, the Elizabeth Forwards to merge with the Belle Vernon’s, and the hopewell’s to merge with the Blackhawks...all for the sake of athletics!!!!
I don’t expect WPIAL to qualify 6 teams in this sport like District 1. But it would be nice to qualify 3. That way, you get to a district semi and stumble, you can still earn your way in to the state playoffs by winning a consolation game. There is way too much quality in WPIAL to only qualify 2 teams in the highest classification.
I don't think they've merged out East. They haven't had the population loss that this area has had. If anything, they are having to add schools. School districts such as Council Rock, Central Bucks, and others have had to add additional HS's. Eastern PA and Western PA are very different, as you know. Its much more densely populated out East.
Yep. They try to even it out in the State playoffs by sending some smaller class teams east and larger class teams west. there are more big schools in the east and more smaller schools in the west.
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