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The main problem with privatizing the sale of liquor is figuring out how privatizing will replace the $500,000,000 of profits that get deposited into PA Dept of Revenue each year. Hope and assume are not plans.
The issue is that people who don't drink shouldn't have to pay (taxes) for the salaries of the people working in that industry.I hate government waste, but I am for the state store system because unlike a lot of government programs it is making money and supplying jobs for people. Some one is gonna make a ton of money selling booze, it isn't gonna be the grocery store stock worker getting $8 an hour to stock the booze aisle.
If someone is jealous of someone making $14 an hour and having benefits while their industry is making money for the state, all I can say is apply for a job when its open.
The issue is that people who don't drink shouldn't have to pay (taxes) for the salaries of the people working in that industry.
I hate government waste, but I am for the state store system because unlike a lot of government programs it is making money and supplying jobs for people. Some one is gonna make a ton of money selling booze, it isn't gonna be the grocery store stock worker getting $8 an hour to stock the booze aisle.
If someone is jealous of someone making $14 an hour and having benefits while their industry is making money for the state, all I can say is apply for a job when its open.
And btw - privatizing will most likely generate the same revenue
It may, but if you think it will replace the jobs for people, it won't be equivalent. Again it is making money and providing better jobs for people. I doubt the private sector will add as many jobs as are lost. Do you think grocery stores are gonna pay a stocker $12 an hour plus benefits? I don't judge things on ideology, I understand the argument, but as I stated it is making money and providing some better paying jobs for other Pennsylvanians.
I'm reminded of the idea of how much gambling would help the state coffers, some even suggesting real estate tax for school district may be eliminated. But that was just a ploy, a carrot thrown out so our Gov. Rendell 's buddies could get rich owning Casinos. The state could have run the Casino's or took a huge piece of the pie to get rid of tax, instead it really has changed little and the state income which is a regressive tax continues to climb.
By the way are you this upset about postal workers? I don't think you need a lot of skill to do their job, they are making more money with even better pensions/benefits.
If the higher wage and employee arguments are in play, why shouldn't PA take over and monopolize other profitable goods and services?
The state stores are making a lot of money for the state, and the state uses the money to the benefit of all. If the stores were not making money I would say shut them down. The fact is the stores are making lots of money for the state and providing jobs as a bonus.
You don't understand. The system isn't successful until it greatly increases the income for a few while reducing the quality of life for the majority. Never mind that it is profitable, contributes nearly $800million to schools and other social services, and provides consumers competitive pricing with other states.It may, but if you think it will replace the jobs for people, it won't be equivalent. Again it is making money and providing better jobs for people. I doubt the private sector will add as many jobs as are lost. Do you think grocery stores are gonna pay a stocker $12 an hour plus benefits? I don't judge things on ideology, I understand the argument, but as I stated it is making money and providing some better paying jobs for other Pennsylvanians.
I'm reminded of the idea of how much gambling would help the state coffers, some even suggesting real estate tax for school district may be eliminated. But that was just a ploy, a carrot thrown out so our Gov. Rendell 's buddies could get rich owning Casinos. The state could have run the Casino's or took a huge piece of the pie to get rid of tax, instead it really has changed little and the state income which is a regressive tax continues to climb.
By the way are you this upset about postal workers? I don't think you need a lot of skill to do their job, they are making more money with even better pensions/benefits.
I'm reminded of the idea of how much gambling would help the state coffers, some even suggesting real estate tax for school district may be eliminated. But that was just a ploy, a carrot thrown out so our Gov. Rendell 's buddies could get rich owning Casinos. The state could have run the Casino's or took a huge piece of the pie to get rid of tax, instead it really has changed little and the state income which is a regressive tax continues to climb.
Because it is not already in place, I am not for these things normally, but when I found that it was making a profit, I said leave it alone.
You don't understand. The system isn't successful until it greatly increases the income for a few while reducing the quality of life for the majority. Never mind that it is profitable, contributes nearly $800million to schools and other social services, and provides consumers competitive pricing with other states.
I am actually open to the idea of a single-payer system. Polls show that satisfaction with healthcare from those on Medicare/Medicaid are usually on par or higher than for those on private healthcare. The administrative fees and actual cost of coverage is significantly less per person than private. So yeah, I'd be willing to listen. Especially at the end of every month when I see how much I'm paying in premiums for the people at my company.Pennsylvania should then take over all business and industry for the greater good. How about they start with healthcare?
I don't think you have a very good understanding of Medicare.I am actually open to the idea of a single-payer system. Polls show that satisfaction with healthcare from those on Medicare/Medicaid are usually on par or higher than for those on private healthcare. The administrative fees and actual cost of coverage is significantly less per person than private. So yeah, I'd be willing to listen. Especially at the end of every month when I see how much I'm paying in premiums for the people at my company.
But my point about the LCB is that its already here, it's profitable, it provides funds for schools and other public good, and the pricing to consumers is competitive with every state in its vicinity. If it was a complete failure then absolutely reform the system. But it is far from a failure.
Pennsylvania took in around $1.5 billion in tax revenues from casinos in 2019. Yeah, that's a "B". If you don't think that's helping the state's coffers I don't know what to say.
LOL.I am actually open to the idea of a single-payer system. Polls show that satisfaction with healthcare from those on Medicare/Medicaid are usually on par or higher than for those on private healthcare. The administrative fees and actual cost of coverage is significantly less per person than private. So yeah, I'd be willing to listen. Especially at the end of every month when I see how much I'm paying in premiums for the people at my company.
But my point about the LCB is that its already here, it's profitable, it provides funds for schools and other public good, and the pricing to consumers is competitive with every state in its vicinity. If it was a complete failure then absolutely reform the system. But it is far from a failure.
Not sure if you realize you're kind of making my argument.Have our taxes been reduced, mine have only gone up. Do you know what the tax rate is on Casinos? I would be interested to know.
It's just my opinion that the Commonwealth absolutely should not be in the business of selling alcohol.
Not sure if you realize you're kind of making my argument.
But my point about the LCB is that its already here, it's profitable, it provides funds for schools and other public good, and the pricing to consumers is competitive with every state in its vicinity. If it was a complete failure then absolutely reform the system. But it is far from a failure.
Well, it doesn't need to be fixed - it needs to be completely eliminated, but not sure it will ever happen since so many political careers are protected by it. It's such a waste and corrupt on top of it.Yes, I agree. I can not argue these points ,along ideological lines you are correct, government waste and corruption is a major problem. But remember this, even without State Stores, it is NOT a free market system, far from it...the government decides who gets to sell it and who does not....But yes, I must concede to dissonance between theory and practice on the issue which you are pointing out
Add in the fact that it is providing some better jobs for others I place it far down the list of priorities of governmental programs/duties that need fixed or streamlined, IMO.
More than that. Wolf is beholden to his state employees. This isn't just about lobbyists and prudes.
The Commonwealth of PA should NOT be in the business of selling alcohol. I don't care what side of the aisle you identify with - this is ridiculous and has been for decades.
At least the monkeys could be trained to provide good customer service. You know knowledgeable about the product, provide good customer service.FREE THE PA ST LIQUOR STORES! FREE THE PA ST LIQUOR STORES! FREE THE PA ST LIQUOR STORES!
How ridiculous having relatively high paid union employees with State benefits unload boxes, stock shelves, and check people out handing them a bag with a bottle or two in it.
A trained monkey could do all of those jobs probably better than some of the state employees.
In other states privately owned liquor stores have a owner, one or maybe two key employees who are fulltime with benefits the remainder are PT no benefits.
This is a classic! "I'm from the State government and have no idea how to run a business".
Do you pay everyone as much as possible???
The state stores make the bulk of their money on the taxes they collect on the alcohol they sell. Unless you think that the taxes are going to go away if you privatize the system (and surely no one is naive enough to think that) the state will still make lots of money.
I’m not a liquor drinker, but it has always perplexed me why it is so simple to buy beer, wine and spirits in other states, but not in PA. Do the beer distributors have a powerful lobby? Why is PA the only state in the country with liquor laws like this?
Ridge tried very hard to privatize liquor sales in Pennsylvania..
Only in most states .Exactly. The concept of "Liquor Stores" is weird. This has to be a long standing Dumbocratic program that someone is skimming money off of.
Only in Pennsylvania
LOLExactly. The concept of "Liquor Stores" is weird. This has to be a long standing Dumbocratic program that someone is skimming money off of.
Only in Pennsylvania
LOL
Upon its creation, Governor Gifford Pinchot (R) stated that the purpose of the Board was to "discourage the purchase of alcoholic beverages by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible."
FairYeah, in PA it's never been just about the Democrats protecting their union backers. It's also been about Republicans who because of their religious beliefs feel that people shouldn't be allowed to drink alcohol at all, that it's the devil's drink. Back in the day those folks were the primary drivers of prohibition, and when prohibition ended they wanted to make people buying alcohol as difficult as possible. So they came up with the moronic system that we have today, that some people from both parties have tried to change (to some level of success) over the years and other people from both parties have fought tooth and nail to maintain the status quo.
Fair
No need to rise up if you're well stocked.The time is nigh for a rebellion over the whiskey issue in Western Pennsylvania.
The state stores are making a lot of money for the state, and the state uses the money to the benefit of all. If the stores were not making money I would say shut them down. The fact is the stores are making lots of money for the state and providing jobs as a bonus.
PittLaw, nice to here from you.
Not to open a can of worms, again but .....
Ridge is on my list of all time worse politicians, for example,
on his way out he increased state pensions and to do so he needed votes so he increased teachers pensions from 75% to like 87.5% of average salary of top three years,(or something like this) which leads me to believe he didn't really care about tax payers at all but he wanted to load up some of his buddies with their own "monopoly" to sell liquor.....he spoke out of both sides of his mouth alot, imo
A similar argument could be made for the bloated PA legislature, the largest such body in all the United States I believe.More than 80% of the revenue [when last studied] came from sales and liquor taxes, which would be collected and paid regardless of who makes the sale. Take a look at the bloated and over-paid State Store System and tell me this is an efficient and pro-consumer model? The stores themselves are generally nasty, not merchandised well, and have surly and unhelpful staff. I'm sure the State could operate grocery stores too which would generate jobs and money....but surely you recognize this is not a good idea?
Of course this is ancient history, but your memory of it is slightly off. During the Ridge administration, there was an incentive offered to very senior teachers through PSEA and their Commonwealth backed retirement plan to incentivize senior teachers to retire. The public policy was that the most senior teachers are most highly paid...so by retiring, they would save school districts significant amounts of salary, while also opening up many new teaching positions to young teachers and recent grads looking for a teaching spot. Of course this plan was approved by the PA Legislature [in an overwhelming bipartisan way]...and many teachers retired under the plan. The percentage of retirement pay you quote is wrong [I know as I had family that retired under the plan], but I cannot seem to find the numbers on the Internet. Either way, to suggest that Ridge was corrupt is simply not accurate. Hail to Pitt!