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Panther Hoops Scrimmage & Other Dribbles ...

My biggest question coming out of the scrimmage is Payton. He did not play anywhere near as much as I expected.

Before I go any further, let me issue a disclaimer ( for those that seem to demand it). What follows is my opinion, my impressions, I am not posting them like the 10 commandments.

It seems to me that there have been indications in the media and social media that Payton might be something. Maybe it is my imagination , but that is the drift I am getting.

I liked the look of Mo playing with Big John. That may well be the best way forward, but if Payton is something he needs to play more minutes than Mo’s backup.

With Jeffress (in the scrimmage) looking like he still has no confidence on offense, I say Payton eats heavily into the Jeffress minutes.

I know that spacing arguments, but maybe Mo’s versitility compensates for that.

I also know Payton neither stood out or looked to be going particularly hard in the scrimmage.

Anxious to see if Payton is “something” or not.

Payton had played a lot of 5 at Indian Hills. Champ played a lot of 5 in the past in high school before he played at Pitt as a 4. Payton has more skills to play the 4, but asking him to play the 3 is in line with asking Champ to play the 3 at Pitt or Toney to play the 3 at Pitt when Toney first came in. Champ struggled guarding 4's at Pitt. Payton is a future 4 man, he's not a 3 right now. Jeffress is a 3.

A scrimmage gives people a chance to see how individuals look. A player like Femi wasn't going to come out and try to dominate for example and try to win the game. Its a simple scrimmage. The dust will start to settle after a few real games are played. Remember, Gerald Drumgoole actually started when he first got here. He then became a bad bench player for the rest of his Pitt career and wasn't starting any more when the dust settled.

When the lights go on in actual games, some players are going to step up and play well, a few others are going to bust and not play well. At this junction, I think Gueye is going to play quite a bit more than I or maybe anyone else anticipated in our frontcourt. Perhaps, and all I am saying is perhaps, a new system will help him be better offensively. Defensively, he is significantly ahead of others.

I have concerns with Jeffress offensive game this year if he is playing large minutes. He is still very young and in early development on offense. But Burton is now out for some time. I still think Santos is the biggest wildcard. because if he starts making 3's in real games which he is certainly capable of, things can change quickly. Santos is indeed a 3 who is versatile enough to be moved if needed at times.
 
My biggest question coming out of the scrimmage is Payton. He did not play anywhere near as much as I expected.

It seems to me that there have been indications in the media and social media that Payton might be something. Maybe it is my imagination , but that is the drift I am getting.

I don't know about the media.
The "drift" you might have
gotten probably came from
Vader. He has been very high
on Payton all along. I wasn't
at the scrimmage, so I'll take
your word on your impressions.

At this point I'll reserve my
impressions until I actually
see these players inn real
game time situations. My
sense at this point is we're
deep in depth. But, and it's
a big BUT, it's average depth
talent wise. All reports on the
scrimmage is nobody stood
out. The fact that Gueye
was the best on the floor is
both good and bad. He is a
transfer from a lower level
team and looked to be the
most impressive. I'm glad to
hear he impressed, but what
does that say about our
other players?

Anyway, it's still early, and
Saturday was only an intra
squad scrimmage. Let's see
what Payton can do going
forward.
 
Payton had played a lot of 5 at Indian Hills. Champ played a lot of 5 in the past in high school before he played at Pitt as a 4. Payton has more skills to play the 4, but asking him to play the 3 is in line with asking Champ to play the 3 at Pitt or Toney to play the 3 at Pitt when Toney first came in. Champ struggled guarding 4's at Pitt. Payton is a future 4 man, he's not a 3 right now. Jeffress is a 3.

A scrimmage gives people a chance to see how individuals look. A player like Femi wasn't going to come out and try to dominate for example and try to win the game. Its a simple scrimmage. The dust will start to settle after a few real games are played. Remember, Gerald Drumgoole actually started when he first got here. He then became a bad bench player for the rest of his Pitt career and wasn't starting any more when the dust settled.

When the lights go on in actual games, some players are going to step up and play well, a few others are going to bust and not play well. At this junction, I think Gueye is going to play quite a bit more than I or maybe anyone else anticipated in our frontcourt. Perhaps, and all I am saying is perhaps, a new system will help him be better offensively. Defensively, he is significantly ahead of others.

I have concerns with Jeffress offensive game this year if he is playing large minutes. He is still very young and in early development on offense. But Burton is now out for some time. I still think Santos is the biggest wildcard. because if he starts making 3's in real games which he is certainly capable of, things can change quickly. Santos is indeed a 3 who is versatile enough to be moved if needed at times.
Thanks for the reply.

What I was suggesting was Mo plays enough like a three, so Payton could play offensively like a four.

Need to have the best five players on the floor.
 
LOL, Hilarious. Right after I
mentioned Vader and his
previous comments on
Payton, he chimes in. He
does make a good point
on Payton being a 4 more
than a three. We will see
in real time. For now, I'll
go with Vader's take on
Payton since I've never
seen him play. But let's
not fool anyone, these
are average players talent
wise IMO. We do have a few
with some very good upside,
Femi, Hugley and Jeffers. I
do feel we return decent
talent (not great...decent)
in Horton and Sibande.
It'll be interesting seeing
what and how Capel does
with this team.
 
Payton had played a lot of 5 at Indian Hills. Champ played a lot of 5 in the past in high school before he played at Pitt as a 4. Payton has more skills to play the 4, but asking him to play the 3 is in line with asking Champ to play the 3 at Pitt or Toney to play the 3 at Pitt when Toney first came in. Champ struggled guarding 4's at Pitt. Payton is a future 4 man, he's not a 3 right now. Jeffress is a 3.

A scrimmage gives people a chance to see how individuals look. A player like Femi wasn't going to come out and try to dominate for example and try to win the game. Its a simple scrimmage. The dust will start to settle after a few real games are played. Remember, Gerald Drumgoole actually started when he first got here. He then became a bad bench player for the rest of his Pitt career and wasn't starting any more when the dust settled.

When the lights go on in actual games, some players are going to step up and play well, a few others are going to bust and not play well. At this junction, I think Gueye is going to play quite a bit more than I or maybe anyone else anticipated in our frontcourt. Perhaps, and all I am saying is perhaps, a new system will help him be better offensively. Defensively, he is significantly ahead of others.

I have concerns with Jeffress offensive game this year if he is playing large minutes. He is still very young and in early development on offense. But Burton is now out for some time. I still think Santos is the biggest wildcard. because if he starts making 3's in real games which he is certainly capable of, things can change quickly. Santos is indeed a 3 who is versatile enough to be moved if needed at times.
Santos looked good to me. Seems more than a stand still shooter.

He is a freshman. Guess is he has days when shots will fall and some days when they won’t.

I would rather have him taking a meaningful shot than Jeffress at this point.
 
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** Maybe this comment about Mr. Payton would sum up my overall take on this scrimmage. I watched some pretty decent parts, but no one jumped out as a difference maker player.

** Hail to Pitt!
Kinda what a lot of us envisioned. A balanced deep disciplined team is good for 38 minutes; but, at crunch time, there doesn't seem to be that "Give me the ball and get outta the way" guy. That will cost us wins.

Thanks. Informative and enjoyable read.
 
Kinda what a lot of us envisioned. A balanced deep disciplined team is good for 38 minutes; but, at crunch time, there doesn't seem to be that "Give me the ball and get outta the way" guy. That will cost us wins.

Thanks. Informative and enjoyable read.
I think both Nike and Big John will try to be that guy. John because he wants it, Nike because he thinks he has no choice.
 
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I think both Nike and Big John will try to be that guy. John because he wants it, Nike because he thinks he has no choice.
IMO John as the strength, moves and touch, butI don't think John has the lift to be a sure finish.

Nike showed flashes at the end of the year though.

Part of the fun of watching new players and teams....
 
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Gueye really surprised me, more skilled and more of a 4 than a 5 than I anticipated.

Other than that, I don't think you can learn too much from 24 minutes of scrimmaging against each other. Probably the second most important thing I learned is which guy is Payton and which is Santos. They look pretty similar physically, and the scoreboard was no help.
 
DT_PITT, a question, if I may.
I was really impressed by Mo G’s leaping ability. Seems like some others were too.

I can’t remember any recent forwards who I thought could leap like Mo G., but you’re knowledge of Pitt BB players is vast. Mo G. looks like a much taller Julius Page to me, as far as springing off the floor. Sam Young?

I’m not talking basketball skills, just quick leaping…. Any comparisons come to mind?

Thank you.
 
DT_PITT, a question, if I may.
I was really impressed by Mo G’s leaping ability. Seems like some others were too.

I can’t remember any recent forwards who I thought could leap like Mo G., but you’re knowledge of Pitt BB players is vast. Mo G. looks like a much taller Julius Page to me, as far as springing off the floor. Sam Young?

I’m not talking basketball skills, just quick leaping…. Any comparisons come to mind?

Thank you.
Good question- but I don’t feel very qualified to answer after 24 minutes of a scrimmage.

I would hesitate to compare him to smaller players like Page. It’s just different.

Maybe a place to compare him would be someone like Chris Taft who was a splendid quick leaper.

But like I said — I just haven’t seen enough of Mo. He sure looked good enough on Saturday but it’s hard to get too exited just yet knowing he really didn’t dominate in a lower league.
 
Good question- but I don’t feel very qualified to answer after 24 minutes of a scrimmage.

I would hesitate to compare him to smaller players like Page. It’s just different.

Maybe a place to compare him would be someone like Chris Taft who was a splendid quick leaper.

But like I said — I just haven’t seen enough of Mo. He sure looked good enough on Saturday but it’s hard to get too exited just yet knowing he really didn’t dominate in a lower league.
That makes sense. Thank you.
 
Good question- but I don’t feel very qualified to answer after 24 minutes of a scrimmage.

I would hesitate to compare him to smaller players like Page. It’s just different.

Maybe a place to compare him would be someone like Chris Taft who was a splendid quick leaper.

But like I said — I just haven’t seen enough of Mo. He sure looked good enough on Saturday but it’s hard to get too exited just yet knowing he really didn’t dominate in a lower league.
The one thing you can say about his play in that scrimmage was that he far exceeded his advanced billings.
 
** Full disclosure. Although I’m a Pure Pitt fan through and through (and through), I’ve almost always been a much bigger Pitt Hoops fan than a Pitt Football fan.

** In fact, it’s been maybe 40 years since I’ve anticipated “the next football game” as much as I’ve anticipated an upcoming Hoops season.

** Yet, at the moment the combination of lackluster expectations for Capel’s crew this year, combined with the 52 point per game production of Pickett’s parade has placed hardwood worries a notch behind.

** Therefore my hope today was that a few minutes watching the orange orb would rev up my usual excitement for the basketballers. The bottom line is that I don’t think that mission was quite accomplished.

** That’s not to say that today’s exhibition wasn’t enjoyable enough. It most certainly was worth the trip to the top of Cardiac Hill. But I left unconvinced that our Roundballers can promise an improvement over last year’s disappointing campaign.

** Of course, I’ll offer the requisite disclaimer, saying that neither complete judgements nor conclusions should be made from watching 24 minutes of glorified practice at the Pete. But impressions are allowed, and these, player by player, are mine.

** I’ll start with the horses, and going into the season, I’d expect Femi to be at the front of the harass. I think Femi can be a star, but today he surely wasn’t. Other than one nifty drive, his afternoon was defined more by turnovers than positive plays. I tend to believe that the better explanation is that Femi was in no hurry to dominate and was instead looking to defer. But if we didn’t already know how good Femi could be, one might not have known the difference today between Ezeakudo and Odukale.

** In fact, overall Ezeky looked pretty solid, if not better.

** Next in backcourt line are Nike and Ithiel. Both played well enough this day, but neither gave me any indication they are different players than the ones who ended last year. Nike’s disposition on the court looks a little more like he’s willing to take the role as this team’s lead dog. He appeared more aggressive with the ball, working to score on the drive or create for others. Ithiel filled the role of spot up shooter in a somewhat spotty kind of a way. In both cases, we probably already know what we will get this year.

** William is still my favorite among this year’s players to root for. He’ll likely always play with high energy, and he did that today. He busted his tail defensively, and tried to be more aggressive with the ball than we saw last year. But he simply needs to be a consistent shooter for his game to work and at least based on today’s output, he not quite there yet.

** Almost without a doubt, the return of Big John was likely the most important “addition” to this year’s squad. Allow me to suggest that I might be offering a more positive review of Mr. Hugley than other might offer. His highlight was a nifty baseline spin move and a nice face up jumper, while otherwise battling in the paint. I believe that Big John might be the kind of player who rumbles his way this year to 7 or 8 points a game and 6 or 7 seven rebounds in about 22-23 minutes. Those could be the numbers of a decent enough ACC center. The key could be making sure he can avoid foul trouble enough to stay on the court that long, and he showed nothing today that foreshadowed foul trouble or conditioning issues.

** I might have something of a different take on Noah than others. I heard a few folks around me saying they were impressed, but I may have been less so. That’s not to say Noah struggled in any remarkable way, but I saw the same player I watched last year. To me, he an athlete, but I’d like to see more of a basketball player.

** The remaining returner was Big Max, who contributed a sweet jump hook and a greater level of court awareness but no real indicator he's ready to join the rotation.

** Still, the reason most folks events like this is to get a look at newcomers, and we’ve got a few of those.

** I can’t say I came to the Pete this day to watch Mo Gueye more than any other, but a surely walked out singing his praises the most. Much like Noah, I expected a fine athlete who might not be the best basketball player. But on this afternoon at least, he might have been the best basketball player on the court. He’s got a deft touch from his jumper, and can even put the ball on the floor more than I expected. Although, allow me to add that after he drilled his first two threes, and shot an air ball from three to open the second half.

** We already knew we’d get a shot blocker and Mo didn’t disappoint in this way either. Nor did it look like he was getting pushed around by the burlier Hugley, Max or Oladipo. His sweetest moment was using his dribble to crossover his defender to create space for a deft pull up jumper.

** But before we get too excited about Mr. Gueye, let’s not forget that he didn’t even average double figures in the America East Conference. With that, could it even be bad news that he was the Panthers best offensive player on the court today?

** It’s also noteworthy that Big John and Mo started out on the court together on the same team. We will have to see in that’s a way Coach Capel wishes play as the year goes on.

** Meanwhile Dan Oladapo started (along with Noah) opposite John and Mo. Count me among those who like what Dan can bring to the Panthers this year. He seems to bring the wisdom of the game one might expect from a fifth year player. One might even say that he’s got a bit of an "Old Man’s game," and I mean this as a compliment.

** Dan is strong too, he and doesn’t shy from the battle in the paint. But from the looks of things today, the Panthers would be better off if he’d shy away from shooting the three point jumper.

** Despite not being a highly ranked recruit, Nate Santos did not look overmatched, hitting two open threes, and even a nice crossover to get by Femi on the break.

** Whether Nate can make an impact this year might depend on Chris Payton. While nothing in Chris' game this day was problematic, he also didn’t necessarily distinguish himself either.

** Maybe this comment about Mr. Payton would sum up my overall take on this scrimmage. I watched some pretty decent parts, but no one jumped out as a difference maker player.

** Some good news in this regard is that there seemed to be a greater emphasis on offensive execution and sharing the basketball, rather than the pounding of the basketball into the floor with the dribble that has plagued the teams of the last few years. This could even get better when Burton returns from injury.

** And perhaps there could be an overall dedication to team defense. But it’s almost impossible to tell the difference in an intrasquad scrimmage between bad offense and good defense. And perhaps as a minus in both columns, maybe one thing I did see a little too much of was badly missed wide open jumpers.

** And so, I’ll leave tonight saying I’m looking forward to this Hoops season a little bit more than I was six hours ago. But I’m looking forward to Kenny and Company take on the Hokies a little bit more than that.

** Hail to Pitt!
You were spot on. John seems like he exceeded your expectations, but for the most part your analysis was accurate. I trust your eye DT.
 
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