Pennsylvania Football talent

[BuffetParrothead]

I haven't claimed anything. It's not even about CTE, dummy. You're ridiculing people and you have zero idea how even one minor blow to the head can cause lifelong problems.

Dear Mr Buffoon maybe you're not paying attention to the thread or it's the result of one random blow to the head? If that's the case seek medical attention immediately.

This discussion is about CTE as it relates to football.

I started to post about ten posts back in response to a good JoeyDavid post ( further back) that referenced a Purdue study relating to their football team and repeated blows to the head during football practice.

It went like this:
If you are not familiar. In a nutshell, they counted head blows in every practice and did cognitive test at different intervals. The players lost intelligence from the start of hitting to the end of the season. They literally became dumber from playing football.

So my posts were related to football and CTE not children suffering one random blow to the head????

My point is if there's proof of CTE all football should be cancelled asap. There shouldn't be one more practice, or game beginning with youth football through college football.
Why would we put young children, young adults, and adults at risk. The problem is there's no substantial evidence of CTE so football goes on!
Otherwise it would be banned right now!

I have no idea what you're talking about when you post stuff like one minor blow can cause a lifetime injury. I wasn't posting about this.
That can happen to anyone at anytime doing most anything.
Its a fact but completely off topic!

 

[4upmc]

I think the approach to local recruiting is a bit of a problem. Narduzzi is filling the bottom of his class with projects from other places. That in itself isn't a big deal until you consider that every HS coach in SWPA still thinks that the WPIAL is the only place where HS football matters. So when a low end P5 kid like Daequan Hardy from Penn Hills gets a last minute offer from PSU and jumps on it, all these coaches start fist pumping each other over it and slobbering over Franklin. Meanwhile, Duzz is taking SirVocea Dennis (no clue what they see there) and ticking off the Quip fans on Twitter.

Not saying Pitt will win championships with just WPIAL kids (they won't) but there are some kids that matter around here and Pitt needs to be doing things to keep more of them home.

It’s a catch 22 with a kid like Hardy. Correct me if I have the wrong person but I don’t recall you being high on him (maybe I have the wrong poster).

Anyways Hardy is tiny and not that fast. We already have a small DB in Williams from FL, but the difference is Williams is put together, can fly and play at this level.

WPIAL & Penn Hills ppl may be happy with Franklin now but they won’t be in the future when he gets no PT (see Wade as an expl). So if PN takes a kid who most likely won’t get PT it will hurt him in the long run with a school like Penn Hills.

Hardy had only MAC offers his only P5 committable offer was PSU and they took him cause of the zillion kids who transferred at the last min.

 

[pittdan77]

Dear Mr Buffoon maybe you're not paying attention to the thread or it's the result of one random blow to the head? If that's the case seek medical attention immediately.

This discussion is about CTE as it relates to football.

I started to post about ten posts back in response to a good JoeyDavid post ( further back) that referenced a Purdue study relating to their football team and repeated blows to the head during football practice.

It went like this:
If you are not familiar. In a nutshell, they counted head blows in every practice and did cognitive test at different intervals. The players lost intelligence from the start of hitting to the end of the season. They literally became dumber from playing football.

So my posts were related to football and CTE not children suffering one random blow to the head????

My point is if there's proof of CTE all football should be cancelled asap. There shouldn't be one more practice, or game beginning with youth football through college football.
Why would we put young children, young adults, and adults at risk. The problem is there's no substantial evidence of CTE so football goes on!
Otherwise it would be banned right now!

I have no idea what you're talking about when you post stuff like one minor blow can cause a lifetime injury. I wasn't posting about this.
That can happen to anyone at anytime doing most anything.
Its a fact but completely off topic!

Yeah, you think CTE is a joke. I get that. I was pointing out that even minor events can have traumatic outcomes but you're trying to confuse the issue. You obviously know zero about the subject. If a minor event can be bad, how do you think the culmination of a series of events works out? Blow your knee once, slow you down a step? Geez.

You just like to poke fun at things you can't understand. Football continues because of money. Billions a year, actually. That's not exactly a new theme in society. Those CTE settlements that NFL players get are largely a joke. There's actually a pretty substantial body count. Real knee slapper.

 

[4upmc]

I don’t care where the players come from. You find the best players you can get who want to come to Pitt. Seems there is more talent in the WPIAL in the next few years and hopefully we land some of these kids. BUT if they are really good and schools like OSU, ND, MICH and yes PSU offer the kids and REALLY want the kid (not as a back up plan) then it will be tough for Pitt to get the kid most times.

Sure Pitt got kids like Hamlin & Ford who wanted to stay home and rep their city but they are the exception. Dayon Hayes seems to like Pitt a lot but just got an OSU offer which he said is his dream school. Elliot Donald just got an offer from his dream school LSU. Few kids grow up dreaming of playing for Pitt which has not been a national power in their lifetime.

Many times Pitt has a better chance at landing a highly ranked recruit form out of state because these kids don’t hear all the negativity about Pitt form “their ppl” or WPIAL gym coaches etc. Examples are Saladuddin, Camp, Davis etc who were national recruits.

Even with an uptick in talent the next few years no program can make the WPIAL their main target and do really well. PSU gets most of their players from out of state & the truth is they can get most PA kids if they want them. Just last year there were 9 kids from the WPIAL who signed with P5 schools. Hell you have single HS’s in Florida who have more P5 kids who signed last year with P5 schools than the entire WPIAL.

I’ll give some info per 24/7 rankings to show how poor WPIAL & PA recruiting has been. Last year MJ Devonshire was the #8 player in the state and his biggest offers were Pitt and Kentucky not exactly national powers.

In the 2016 24/7 Florida rankings Rashad Weaver was ranked #206 meanwhile in the 2016 PA rankings Aaron Matthews was #12 and Kaezon Pugh was #13. We know Pugh sucks as he can’t even get PT at Howard. I like Matthews he is a great blocker but just an avg at best WR. He plays hard and has a ton of heart. But let’s be honest Matthews and Pugh would not have made the top 500 players in FL most likely.

Someone said we are getting projects or development players from out of state....Our 5 best DL are all from out of state. The starters Weaver, Camp, Watts and Jones as well as the next DT Twyman. Not saying these kids are stars but all of them can ball and some of these guys will be in the NFL.

Guys like V. Carter were not national recruits so according to some we should take a chance on a WPIAL project because they are local. BTW Carter was ranked #211 in FL. He would have been top 10 in PA easily. It’s easier to find hidden gems in loaded football states like FL because when you have loads of talent kids are bound to be under the radar.

I could go on and on with examples but this post is long enough. At the end of the day you can not have a top program making the WPIAL as the main recruiting target. Sure you recruit the top local talent but you also do the smart thing which Pitt is doing. And that is go hard in talent rich areas like FL, DMV etc.

 

[pittdan77]

It’s a catch 22 with a kid like Hardy. Correct me if I have the wrong person but I don’t recall you being high on him (maybe I have the wrong poster).

Anyways Hardy is tiny and not that fast. We already have a small DB in Williams from FL, but the difference is Williams is put together, can fly and play at this level.

WPIAL & Penn Hills ppl may be happy with Franklin now but they won’t be in the future when he gets no PT (see Wade as an expl). So if PN takes a kid who most likely won’t get PT it will hurt him in the long run with a school like Penn Hills.

Hardy had only MAC offers his only P5 committable offer was PSU and they took him cause of the zillion kids who transferred at the last min.

No, you're not wrong. Hardy isn't a great catch and I said so at the time but I also pointed out that Franklin had his reasons. The kid won't play a down at PSU. That was about the optics. Playing time doesn't mean anything. It's all about "getting that chance" and bragging rights. Easy to make excuses for why he failed.

Pitt has a closet full of kids without committable P5 offers except for the one they got from Pitt. Hey, maybe that's better for Pitt in the long run. I was simply pointing out that it's not helping with the WPIAL. For the most part, that's not a big deal but it really sucks to lose impact players from your own back yard.

 

[4upmc]

No, you're not wrong. Hardy isn't a great catch and I said so at the time but I also pointed out that Franklin had his reasons. The kid won't play a down at PSU. That was about the optics. Playing time doesn't mean anything. It's all about "getting that chance" and bragging rights. Easy to make excuses for why he failed.

Pitt has a closet full of kids without committable P5 offers except for the one they got from Pitt. Hey, maybe that's better for Pitt in the long run. I was simply pointing out that it's not helping with the WPIAL. For the most part, that's not a big deal but it really sucks to lose impact players from your own back yard.

But Hardy is not and “impact” player from our backyard. Not at the P5 level at least.

Let’s say Clariton has a big time player in a few years that PSU wants...don’t you think the coaches and town will bad mouth PSU because Wade rides the pine. As far as ppl in that town are concerned Wade is a god smh.

IMO it would only hurt Pitt to give a ship to a kid like Hardy who won’t get PT. The PH ppl will bash Pitt for screwing over their guy.

I agree about committable offers and that is true for most schools. Jerry Drake may not have had a committable offer from Alabama. But if he never plays a down at Pitt and his HS decides not to let Pitt recruit there Pitt will be fine as there are a zillion high schools in Florida. In the WPIAL there are only a few HS’s that consistently have D1 talent and Penn Hills is one of them. I believe PN is smart not to take the kid if he feels he can’t pay at this level.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The issue isn’t with where he’s focusing his recruiting efforts; it’s with who he’s actually able to bring into the program.

As I’ve said many times, this issue has plagued every Pitt coaching staff since Gottfried. Pitt is a tough sell to a player with a lot of P5 options. . No way around it. No southern player that wants to play for a southern P5 school wants to come to Pitt. So we get the guys those schools don’t want, and a few of them end up being diamonds in the rough. No midwestern or northeastern kid grows up wanting to play in the ACC, so Pitt gets players from those regions that don’t have a strong P5 offer sheet. There are exceptions, but it’s largely true. We are competing with the Indianas, Purdues, NCSUs, WVUs, Kentuckys etc for out of state players. So it’s hard to expect a better product than those schools put out.

We are mostly in a Southern conference now however. So......a lot has changed since then.

 

[pittdan77]

But Hardy is not and “impact” player from our backyard. Not at the P5 level at least.

Let’s say Clariton has a big time player in a few years that PSU wants...don’t you think the coaches and town will bad mouth PSU because Wade rides the pine. As far as ppl in that town are concerned Wade is a god smh.

IMO it would only hurt Pitt to give a ship to a kid like Hardy who won’t get PT. The PH ppl will bash Pitt for screwing over their guy.

I agree about committable offers and that is true for most schools. Jerry Drake may not have had a committable offer from Alabama. But if he never plays a down at Pitt and his HS decides not to let Pitt recruit there Pitt will be fine as there are a zillion high schools in Florida. In the WPIAL there are only a few HS’s that consistently have D1 talent and Penn Hills is one of them. I believe PN is smart not to take the kid if he feels he can’t pay at this level.

You're missing my point. I'm pretty sure we agree. I never said Hardy was an impact player. He's barely a P5 kid but he still wouldn't have been the lowest rated kid in Pitt's class. Actually, he'd be higher than three or four of them. The thing with Hardy is that he didn't get his first P5 offer until PSU waltzed in late. Pitt did the same thing with Dennis (who probably has no business in P5) when the Aliquippa kid made it clear he wasn't coming to Pitt. Maybe Duzz want's to impress NJ coaches? I don't know. Since we're discussing the problem with PA recruiting, that's all I was pointing out. It's local perception.

I personally don't care where a kid grows up. If Duzz isn't that worried about the WPIAL and only focuses to the south and east, that's his call. I was only trying to explain why good WPIAL players might be dismissive.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

LOL!
Kinda like the people on this message board they get dumber with each post which is probably your problem!

More fake news how stupid is that study.

Most players have been playing football six 5 or 6, tackle football starts at 7 so by the end of pro career all of them shouldn't be able to talk or remember their names.

Given the Purdue fake facts Tom Brady shouldn't be capable of remembering one play let alone talk which he does well. Same for Peyton Manning, or all the other guys in commercials, analysts doing commentary, in the booth guys, etc.

They all should be stone brain dead by the end of a long career and they're not.

Some NFLer's are faking stupidity so they get in on the big lawsuit/payday one day.
Some don't have to fake stupidity so they'll be included too.

These guys go on to be announcers, guys in commercials, business people, and they're all brain dead??

LOL!
At a minimum you're entertaining!

So wait a minute, if more people in PA would watch Fox News instead of CNN, the talent in football would increase?? Is that what you are inferring?

 

[4upmc]

You're missing my point. I'm pretty sure we agree. I never said Hardy was an impact player. He's barely a P5 kid but he still wouldn't have been the lowest rated kid in Pitt's class. Actually, he'd be higher than three or four of them. The thing with Hardy is that he didn't get his first P5 offer until PSU waltzed in late. Pitt did the same thing with Dennis (who probably has no business in P5) when the Aliquippa kid made it clear he wasn't coming to Pitt. Maybe Duzz want's to impress NJ coaches? I don't know. Since we're discussing the problem with PA recruiting, that's all I was pointing out. It's local perception.

I personally don't care where a kid grows up. If Duzz isn't that worried about the WPIAL and only focuses to the south and east, that's his call. I was only trying to explain why good WPIAL players might be dismissive.

I hear you and think we agree for the most part. PN has given out quite a few WPIAL offers for this year and next.

Have not seen film on Dennis and know he is not ranked high. But from what I read he is extremely athletic but raw. But unlike Hardy he is not 150 pounds so at least Dennis has something to work with.

Yes I get what you are saying about the local perception. But this year he seems to be going really hard after some local kids that he thinks highly of.

 

[thebadby2]

We are mostly in a Southern conference now however. So......a lot has changed since then.

One thing that hasn't changed, and will never change, is that Pittsburgh is not in the south, not by any absurd leap of logic or stretch of anyone's imagination.

If Pitt can't do well in its own backyard--and by "well", I mean get its fair share of the TOP players in the WPIAL--the handful of 4-5 stars--then PItt's in trouble. Because you sure as hell can't get the guys that the big boys down south really want. If anything, conference realignment has only widened the gaps between the handful of haves and the have-nots. And without getting some significantly better talent into the program--enough of it that you have guys at all positions that can compete with the team talent levels of the average top 20 programs--then what we've had the past 25 years is what we'll continue to have.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

One thing that hasn't changed, and will never change, is that Pittsburgh is not in the south, not by any absurd leap of logic or stretch of anyone's imagination.

If Pitt can't do well in its own backyard--and by "well", I mean get its fair share of the TOP players in the WPIAL--the handful of 4-5 stars--then PItt's in trouble. Because you sure as hell can't get the guys that the big boys down south really want. If anything, conference realignment has only widened the gaps between the handful of haves and the have-nots. And without getting some significantly better talent into the program--enough of it that you have guys at all positions that can compete with the team talent levels of the average top 20 programs--then what we've had the past 25 years is what we'll continue to have.

Psssst. West Virginia can do pretty well in the south, why can't we?

 

[cashisking884]

Psssst. West Virginia can do pretty well in the south, why can't we?

Do they? WVU has done a decent job of getting the southern players with horrible grade issues/character issues.
But most of their southern recruits are average football players. Their recruiting class rankings are not very good because they don't have a local talent base.
And they became a JUCO heavy school precisely because it became so difficult for them to bring in legit high school talent.

 

[thebadby2]

Psssst. West Virginia can do pretty well in the south, why can't we?

#1: they do well?

#2. Are you suggesting that the great state of West Virginia, home of illiteracy, moonshine, unintelligible hillbilly drawls, dire poverty, poor public education, confederate flags, etc etc is considered to be part of what is universally considered to be the north?

You serious Clark?

 

[thebadby2]

Psssst. West Virginia can do pretty well in the south, why can't we?

By way of further answer to this question, Pitt has never “done well in the south”, do you really think that can change in today’s college football landscape?

 

[Parkview57]

I'm not sure whats going on in Western PA but these are the three key factors limiting youth and HS football in Eastern PA.

In rural areas I think:
#1. Loss of population. 40 years ago many of the small towns(like East Brady ,Jim Kelley) had respectable numbers out for football, now they don't even have a high school, plus #1b the schools care less about the product of football/athletics which leads to poor coaching/programs in some school which is by-product of : #2 because of the lack of jobs there is now a comparatively small middle/working class hence the "work your your as off and make a name for yourself attitude is absent, #3 with low socio-economics comes low work ethic and absent fathers, so by 10th grade there is no one at home to say-'"get your ass off that couch, you are goin' to work or going to practice, make up your mind."

In wpial I would say it is mostly loss of population with less significance of other factors.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

By way of further answer to this question, Pitt has never “done well in the south”, do you really think that can change in today’s college football landscape?

They have no choice.

PITT hasn't done well in the South because of incompetent football program management over decades!

Hire some people who recruit that region plus the Southwest and make it happen!

Your outlook is one of the reasons PITT football su-ks.

Your're one of those fans that says we've tried everything and nothing works!
Not true!
The real story is PITT football has screwed up everything possible to be sure nothing works!

So fix that!

 

[McKee Place]

Do they? WVU has done a decent job of getting the southern players with horrible grade issues/character issues.
But most of their southern recruits are average football players. Their recruiting class rankings are not very good because they don't have a local talent base.
And they became a JUCO heavy school precisely because it became so difficult for them to bring in legit high school talent.

I'm all for following that recipe if it delivers entertaining, winning, ranked teams like they regularly have.

But i think i just made Patrick Gallagher throw up a little of his kale salad with that statement.

 

[thebadby2]

They have no choice.

PITT hasn't done well in the South because of incompetent football program management over decades!

Hire some people who recruit that region plus the Southwest and make it happen!

Your outlook is one of the reasons PITT football su-ks.

Your're one of those fans that says we've tried everything and nothing works!
Not true!
The real story is PITT football has screwed up everything possible to be sure nothing works!

So fix that!

I’m one of those fans that has been around long enough to have observed that the only thing that ever really “worked” to make Pitt football a national player was what the Golden Panthers did. This product has been lackluster for a very long time and throughout a lot of different regime changes.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

They have no choice.

PITT hasn't done well in the South because of incompetent football program management over decades!

Hire some people who recruit that region plus the Southwest and make it happen!

Your outlook is one of the reasons PITT football su-ks.

Your're one of those fans that says we've tried everything and nothing works!
Not true!
The real story is PITT football has screwed up everything possible to be sure nothing works!

So fix that!

Yeah, bring back Todd Graham and all will be well!

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

#1: they do well?

#2. Are you suggesting that the great state of West Virginia, home of illiteracy, moonshine, unintelligible hillbilly drawls, dire poverty, poor public education, confederate flags, etc etc is considered to be part of what is universally considered to be the north?

You serious Clark?

if only there were some line separating the north from the south. Some line that was surveyed out in the 18th century and is still referenced today.. Gee, if we had such a line, I mean if it existed and someone gave it a catchy name and even had a hyphen in it, we could easily conclude this debate..

 

[cashisking884]

I'm all for following that recipe if it delivers entertaining, winning, ranked teams like they regularly have.

But i think i just made Patrick Gallagher throw up a little of his kale salad with that statement.

WVU doesn't regularly have that.
They had a good 2016 thanks to a very down Big XII.
They were 8-4 last year with what is probably going to be a generational QB for them.

The rest of the time they've basically been a .500 team in the Big XII, and most of this coming while UT was down. They probably have to face a strong Texas going forward.

WVU largely has the same problem that we have: A northern team playing in a southern dominated conference.

 

[djbpitt]

No offense to your friend, but he must be living in a time warp. Florida, Texas, and California have always been way ahead of PA. Add in Ohio and some of the Southern states and I’m amazed he actually thought PA was in the top 5.

Pennsylvania's population is just 60 percent of Florida's, and an even smaller fraction of those other two states. All other things being equal, why wouldn't it lag those three states in producing football talent?

 

[pittdan77]

I hear you and think we agree for the most part. PN has given out quite a few WPIAL offers for this year and next.

Have not seen film on Dennis and know he is not ranked high. But from what I read he is extremely athletic but raw. But unlike Hardy he is not 150 pounds so at least Dennis has something to work with.

Yes I get what you are saying about the local perception. But this year he seems to be going really hard after some local kids that he thinks highly of.

I think we'll see over the long haul. Pitt coaches have faced an uphill battle with the WPIAL the second out of state players became a better option. These glorified gym teachers made it Pitt's fault. There is also some weird PSU and WVU loyalty with some of these HS coaches, too. McKeesport comes to mind.

 

[McKee Place]

WVU doesn't regularly have that.
They had a good 2016 thanks to a very down Big XII.
They were 8-4 last year with what is probably going to be a generational QB for them.

The rest of the time they've basically been a .500 team in the Big XII, and most of this coming while UT was down. They probably have to face a strong Texas going forward.

WVU largely has the same problem that we have: A northern team playing in a southern dominated conference.

My bet would be on them sustaining good results over our chances of even reaching the level they've had.

I'm not a fan of theirs(quite the opposite) and I'm sure you may be closer to correct than wrong, in your long term expectation for them. But at one point in the past 1-2 year they were in the top 10 and mentioned in the playoff conversation, albeit however briefly. I'd definitely take that over what we've produced. I don't figure to see Pitt in that position in the remainder of my lifetime, if the same model for the sport continues more or less the same, with no reforms.

 

[pittdan77]

WVU doesn't regularly have that.
They had a good 2016 thanks to a very down Big XII.
They were 8-4 last year with what is probably going to be a generational QB for them.

The rest of the time they've basically been a .500 team in the Big XII, and most of this coming while UT was down. They probably have to face a strong Texas going forward.

WVU largely has the same problem that we have: A northern team playing in a southern dominated conference.

WVU was fine in the Big East. They were able to accumulate enough talent to win in that conference. They changed coaches largely because nobody thought Holgersen could recruit.

 

[newcfo]

Pennsylvania's population is just 60 percent of Florida's, and an even smaller fraction of those other two states. All other things being equal, why wouldn't it lag those three states in producing football talent?

Thats part of my point - although PA has 60% of the population of florida it produces 1/10th of the talent. It's not just total numbers of D1 worthy athletes that has fallen off a cliff... it's the per capita production too.

Here's a breakdown of how many FBS players signed from each state. the numbers have only gotten worse since 2017 for PA and better for FL.

http://www.southernpigskin.com/recruiting/2017-fbs-signees-by-state/

 

[4upmc]

I think we'll see over the long haul. Pitt coaches have faced an uphill battle with the WPIAL the second out of state players became a better option. These glorified gym teachers made it Pitt's fault. There is also some weird PSU and WVU loyalty with some of these HS coaches, too. McKeesport comes to mind.

Yes the loyalty to the PSU cult and WVU is strange. Many of the better WPIAL players seem to be followers. They see their boys signing with other schools & want to do the same. Once they get the big out of state offer it’s typically see ya to Pitt.

Hudson from McKeesport was never going to Pitt and is obviously a great player. And we can name a few others. But for many (not all) of the local kids we miss out PN & Pitt typically find someone out of state who turns out just as good and many times better. Some examples are:

Donovan Jeter In 2017 class. PN recruited this kid hard. He chose the big name school Mich and Pitt signed Twyman who has done more so far and will have a better career IMO.

Wade, PN pulled out all the stops, taking the Pitt bus to his games etc. We know the lil guy has done nothing at PSU. Meanwhile PN signed 3 secondary players in the same class who all are much better players than Wade. Pinnock is a starter and a real good player who has a good shot at the NFL. Mathis has played since his true Frosh year. Is a top 3 DB here and a superior athlete to Wade. Our DC said Mathis is the best athlete on the team with a 41 inch vertical and a legit 4.4 (40). And last Ford, sure he has not done anything yet but he should start this year and now that he has learned the importance of studying film we can expect a big year from him.

The last point is PN is going really hard for the top local players. For Donald he had the kid model the new Pitt uniforms before anyone. I think we have a good chance but maybe he wants to do his own thing and not follow AD. He just said the LSU offer he got was his dream offer. I said how Hayes (Pitt offered him before any P5 school) said his OSU offer was his dream offer. When do we hear local kids saying Pitt is their dream offer? Almost never because Pitt has not been a power in their life time. Plus you have these gym teacher/coaches mad Pitt did not offer their kid who is only a MAC player...so when they get a P5 player they push the kid to other schools.

 

[TimWVU01]

#1: they do well?

#2. Are you suggesting that the great state of West Virginia, home of illiteracy, moonshine, unintelligible hillbilly drawls, dire poverty, poor public education, confederate flags, etc etc is considered to be part of what is universally considered to be the north?

You serious Clark?

Pittsburgh and West Virginia are both part of the federally defined Appalachian region (Pittsburgh being the "only" major metro region in that area). From Knoxville Tn up and through Pittsburgh there are some certain economic and even cultural similarities.... (for example Pittsburgh has a lot of roots in immigrant populations -- Italian, Polish etc -- who worked in the mills -- you see same the patterns in the coal regions extending from East Tenn on North thru E. Kentucky and W. Virginia. Similarly -- African American populations in Pittsburgh, W. Virginia, Kentucky etc. have significant roots in Alabama, Miss. etc -- brought in as low wage employees when labor strife began in the Steel Mills and Coal mines).

https://www.arc.gov/Appalachian_region/CountiesinAppalachia.asp

 

[cashisking884]

WVU was fine in the Big East. They were able to accumulate enough talent to win in that conference. They changed coaches largely because nobody thought Holgersen could recruit.

Right, in the Big East there talent was a better fit since they were going against a lot of Northern and what were basically G5 level schools.

Now the talent around them has upgraded, and for WVU, it's difficult to keep up because they have to go so far away to keep up.

 

[cashisking884]

My bet would be on them sustaining good results over our chances of even reaching the level they've had.

I'm not a fan of theirs(quite the opposite) and I'm sure you may be closer to correct than wrong, in your long term expectation for them. But at one point in the past 1-2 year they were in the top 10 and mentioned in the playoff conversation, albeit however briefly. I'd definitely take that over what we've produced. I don't figure to see Pitt in that position in the remainder of my lifetime, if the same model for the sport continues more or less the same, with no reforms.

With a generational talent at QB and enough experienced talent, we could probably briefly get in that conversation.
Washington and Michigan State have all made the playoffs, and they didn't recruit that much better than us.

The keys are:

1. Get a little lucky. You need programs that are probably above you, to be down and/or get upset. Washington made its run when the PAC 12 sucked and USC waited to play their stud QB. The Trojans lose a coupe of games in conference to start the year they shouldn't have with a different QB, they beat Washington during the season because they had more talent, but Washington doesn't have to play USC in the conference title game because of the early USC losses.

2. Consistently handle your business. You got to be in a position to take advantage of the luck when it happens. Washington won every game they should have that year. So when the USC situation went right for them, they were there to take advantage of it.

We just have to do a better job at taking care of the second part and hope for the first.

 

[pittdan77]

With a generational talent at QB and enough experienced talent, we could probably briefly get in that conversation.
Washington and Michigan State have all made the playoffs, and they didn't recruit that much better than us.

The keys are:

1. Get a little lucky. You need programs that are probably above you, to be down and/or get upset. Washington made its run when the PAC 12 sucked and USC waited to play their stud QB. The Trojans lose a coupe of games in conference to start the year they shouldn't have with a different QB, they beat Washington during the season because they had more talent, but Washington doesn't have to play USC in the conference title game because of the early USC losses.

2. Consistently handle your business. You got to be in a position to take advantage of the luck when it happens. Washington won every game they should have that year. So when the USC situation went right for them, they were there to take advantage of it.

We just have to do a better job at taking care of the second part and hope for the first.

3. Don't over schedule. There's no reason to risk an extra loss or beat yourself up. The committee doesn't seem to care.

 

[Pizzaboy1]

#1: they do well?

#2. Are you suggesting that the great state of West Virginia, home of illiteracy, moonshine, unintelligible hillbilly drawls, dire poverty, poor public education, confederate flags, etc etc is considered to be part of what is universally considered to be the north?

You serious Clark?

Thanks for such kind words about Wva, we appreciate them.Next time you're in Motown let me know I'll buy you a beer!

 

[BFo8]

With a generational talent at QB and enough experienced talent, we could probably briefly get in that conversation.
Washington and Michigan State have all made the playoffs, and they didn't recruit that much better than us.

The keys are:

1. Get a little lucky. You need programs that are probably above you, to be down and/or get upset. Washington made its run when the PAC 12 sucked and USC waited to play their stud QB. The Trojans lose a coupe of games in conference to start the year they shouldn't have with a different QB, they beat Washington during the season because they had more talent, but Washington doesn't have to play USC in the conference title game because of the early USC losses.

2. Consistently handle your business. You got to be in a position to take advantage of the luck when it happens. Washington won every game they should have that year. So when the USC situation went right for them, they were there to take advantage of it.

We just have to do a better job at taking care of the second part and hope for the first.

It must also be added that coaching wise Dantonio and Petersen are on a totally different level than Narduzzi. Even his biggest supporters wouldn’t put him in the same class as those 2 guys.

 

[Pittski]

Wpial has a lot of talent in 2021. These things work in cycle. In a year from now, we will all be complaining about why we aren’t signing enough kids from PA.

I agree that it’s a cyclical process but would acknowledge that the process is driven by population movement, availability of facilities/resources and community interest.

PA has been he later two but the population in WPA is not growing. Until Pgh can turn a corner (if ever) I don’t know that we’ll see a return to glory. I certainly don’t think the game in its present format can sustain that long but I digress.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I agree that it’s a cyclical process but would acknowledge that the process is driven by population movement, availability of facilities/resources and community interest.

PA has been he later two but the population in WPA is not growing. Until Pgh can turn a corner (if ever) I don’t know that we’ll see a return to glory. I certainly don’t think the game in its present format can sustain that long but I digress.

well pitt is behind the 8 ball then if PA provides little talent and we cant get a kid from ohio to save our lives. the last recruit we got from Michigan is going into his second year in the nfl so that state is irrelevant to us... NJ and "under the radar" kids from Ga and Florida as our recruiting base is not a good long term strategy..

 

[thebadby2]

Pittsburgh and West Virginia are both part of the federally defined Appalachian region (Pittsburgh being the "only" major metro region in that area). From Knoxville Tn up and through Pittsburgh there are some certain economic and even cultural similarities.... (for example Pittsburgh has a lot of roots in immigrant populations -- Italian, Polish etc -- who worked in the mills -- you see same the patterns in the coal regions extending from East Tenn on North thru E. Kentucky and W. Virginia. Similarly -- African American populations in Pittsburgh, W. Virginia, Kentucky etc. have significant roots in Alabama, Miss. etc -- brought in as low wage employees when labor strife began in the Steel Mills and Coal mines).

https://www.arc.gov/Appalachian_region/CountiesinAppalachia.asp

Bro-this is very simple: for over 200 years, in the eastern half of the country, there's the North, and there's the South. For people who had trouble distinguishing the two by the basic eyeball test of things like accents, education, culture, rural versus urban population, manufacturing, legality of slave ownership, etc., two guys named Mason and Dixon drew a convenient line over 200 years ago for them to reference. It looks something like this:

 

[thebadby2]

Yes the loyalty to the PSU cult and WVU is strange. Many of the better WPIAL players seem to be followers. They see their boys signing with other schools & want to do the same. Once they get the big out of state offer it’s typically see ya to Pitt.

Hudson from McKeesport was never going to Pitt and is obviously a great player. And we can name a few others. But for many (not all) of the local kids we miss out PN & Pitt typically find someone out of state who turns out just as good and many times better. Some examples are:

Donovan Jeter In 2017 class. PN recruited this kid hard. He chose the big name school Mich and Pitt signed Twyman who has done more so far and will have a better career IMO.

Wade, PN pulled out all the stops, taking the Pitt bus to his games etc. We know the lil guy has done nothing at PSU. Meanwhile PN signed 3 secondary players in the same class who all are much better players than Wade. Pinnock is a starter and a real good player who has a good shot at the NFL. Mathis has played since his true Frosh year. Is a top 3 DB here and a superior athlete to Wade. Our DC said Mathis is the best athlete on the team with a 41 inch vertical and a legit 4.4 (40). And last Ford, sure he has not done anything yet but he should start this year and now that he has learned the importance of studying film we can expect a big year from him.

The last point is PN is going really hard for the top local players. For Donald he had the kid model the new Pitt uniforms before anyone. I think we have a good chance but maybe he wants to do his own thing and not follow AD. He just said the LSU offer he got was his dream offer. I said how Hayes (Pitt offered him before any P5 school) said his OSU offer was his dream offer. When do we hear local kids saying Pitt is their dream offer? Almost never because Pitt has not been a power in their life time. Plus you have these gym teacher/coaches mad Pitt did not offer their kid who is only a MAC player...so when they get a P5 player they push the kid to other schools.

Donovan Jeter In 2017 class. PN recruited this kid hard. He chose the big name school Mich and Pitt signed Twyman who has done more so far and will have a better career IMO.

I like Twyman and I think his future is bright but I don't think there is any basis to project that he will have a better career than Jeter. The same kind of thing was said on this board about Winovich before he became a starter in his 4th year at Michigan. Jeter was injured before the start of his freshman season. I doubt he regrets his college choice. Like Twyman Jeter has 3 seasons of eligibility left at Michigan and is expected to have a big role on a D-line that was loaded with upperclassmen last year and just sent 2 guys to the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft. Twyman stepped into a much thinner talent pool at his position at Pitt than Jeter did at UM. Jeter would have been a huge and important get for Pitt. Those are the kinds of top local players Dooz needs to start consistently winning some recruiting battles for. Getting the occasional Hamlin or Ford isn't enough in your own backyard.

 

[TimWVU01]

Bro-this is very simple: for over 200 years, in the eastern half of the country, there's the North, and there's the South. For people who had trouble distinguishing the two by the basic eyeball test of things like accents, education, culture, rural versus urban population, manufacturing, legality of slave ownership, etc., two guys named Mason and Dixon drew a convenient line over 200 years ago for them to reference. It looks something like this:

If you think the Mason-Dixon line is some kind of black or white cultural separation you need to go back to school. You think people in Chester WV are COMPLETELY different than people in Shippingport or Beaver, PA??? Really ? I don't.....

 

[pittdan77]

If you think the Mason-Dixon line is some kind of black or white cultural separation you need to go back to school. You think people in Chester WV are COMPLETELY different than people in Shippingport or Beaver, PA??? Really ? I don't.....

You're not wrong but it's probably equally absurd to argue that Pittsburgh and rural Kentucky are somehow homogeneous just because the Fed keeps changing how Appalachia is defined.