But it is true
How our attendance ranked compared to national averages does not diminish that Point.
You think it does- but it doesn’t
Pitt Attendance/Atmosphere continues to hurt recruiting 4/5 star recruits
- Thread starter Panther Al
- Start date
How our attendance ranked compared to national averages does not diminish that Point.
You think it does- but it doesn’t
I see what you're saying, but if we break into the Top 20 this year, games become MORE meaningful. You WILL see attendance go up. You have to win, because this town supports winners only -- it's a pro sports town. Lay the foundations this year -- the fan support IS there when they play meaningful games, especially against name opponents like NDame, VaTech and Miami on the schedule. There are other opportunities for sports viewership here, unlike Madison, WI or State College, PA where it's the only game in town. Those towns have a local population of 250-300K but have cities nearby as well (Wiscy has Milwaukee and Chicago and PSU has Philly and DC), which is optimal for packing college stadiums. Pittsburgh and surrounding areas have roughly 2.3 million people to pull from, 3 major league franchises and several smaller universities -- we will probably never cram 100K here, because there are so many options, but that's why the product on the field has to be a winner to pull fans out from other venues. But they ARE there to make it a week-in week-out thing.
PSU has Philly and DC?
Philadelphia is 192 miles away from State College.
Pittsburgh is only 136 miles away.
Philadelphia is 192 miles away from State College.
Pittsburgh is only 136 miles away.
I don’t get the part about the Pirates, they were horrible in the 80’s and 90’s.
I would agree that PItt atmosphere hurts recruiting but the only way the atmosphere improves is by winning. They need to bite the bullet and weaken the OOC schedule to like it was in the late 00s where Pitt has a decent record and can get the eyes of the fringe top 25 by week 7. Then when you do win your big upset over a ranked ND like we did in 09 you have a good win and a good record and are likely ranked with games against top Conference rivals to end the season to propel fan and local and national media interest. Pitt's been hurt the last few years by the schedule which has set them up to be out of it before the season really gets going. Pitt had a weaker schedule in 2015 and had a chance to really make some noise before losing to UNC on a Thursday night. Cost us a trip to the ACC Championship Game. Had Pitt won that one game 3 years ago, how much easier would recruiting had been for Narduzzi.
My buddies and I come back for Pitt athletics because of the friendships we built while Pitt was at its modern day peak. We were in school in the late 90s and early 2000s. We saw Pitt go from a laughing stock to being preseason Top 10 in football. We saw 12-0. We beat VT with College Gameday on hand. We tore down the goal posts at Pitt Stadium. Meanwhile across the street we celebrated JP and BK and went from Khalid on the scorers table to pushing lawnmowers down Atwood celebrating a Big East Tourney title.
If Pitt wins, the atmosphere will improve. The kids in school at that time will get excited and they'll come back when they're older. I could get together with my friends any place. We choose to do it at Pitt football because Pitt football was such a big part of our lives when we became a part of each others.
My buddies and I come back for Pitt athletics because of the friendships we built while Pitt was at its modern day peak. We were in school in the late 90s and early 2000s. We saw Pitt go from a laughing stock to being preseason Top 10 in football. We saw 12-0. We beat VT with College Gameday on hand. We tore down the goal posts at Pitt Stadium. Meanwhile across the street we celebrated JP and BK and went from Khalid on the scorers table to pushing lawnmowers down Atwood celebrating a Big East Tourney title.
If Pitt wins, the atmosphere will improve. The kids in school at that time will get excited and they'll come back when they're older. I could get together with my friends any place. We choose to do it at Pitt football because Pitt football was such a big part of our lives when we became a part of each others.
What is Pitt's current student demographics? Is it about 60% women? Fewer football fans enrolling don't bode well for attendance in the future.
Isn't that true of most traditional universities? I think the bigger issues are the ones we usually talk about: losing a few generations of fans by losing so many games, losing population from the region generally, having a smaller alumni base than some of our rivals, and being a pro sports city.
Glad to see Pitt win and look forward to next week's game vs Penn State. I did want to follow up on my statement from two weeks ago because I knew I was correct and have been saying this for years. Pitt didn't sell 50,000 season tickets because there were 35,000 people or less at the game unless 15,000 Penn State fans bought season tickets. Pitt should have put the 25,000 to 30,000 extra tickets sitting in Lyke's bank on stub hub for $1 or less and see what happens. Who cares if people mock us but at least we are trying something new to get people in the stands. At the end of the day, that's all that matters so we can compete recruiting wise vs OSU, PSU, ND, UM, etc. because right now we can't compete and just look at the recruiting rankings as they don't lie.
Here's the bottom line as I mentioned, the AD (SP/Barnes/Lyke) keeps doing the same thing over and over again at Heinz and you think one great atmosphere game vs Penn State is going to change things in recruiting. LOL. No way! Elite 4/5 star recruits aren't dumb and the PSU/OSU's who played non attractive opponents as well yesterday had over 100K people in their building so those coaches will negative recruit against us. I get we don't have the fan base to have 107K which is OK but that goes back to having the on campus stadium which should be $55K with a great atmosphere and out of Heinz morgue. Tarping is for minor leagues (bad look) and will lead to more negative recruiting by our rivals.
If we are staying at Heinz, what do you have to lose by selling all of the upper deck seats for a $1 unless we are playing PSU, WVU or ND? I would also argue that the loyal season ticket fan who is paying a lot more to sit in the lower bowl should be the first to get access to as many tickets as they want for the desirable games before they go on sale to the public at a minimum of a $100 or more. I've seen enough Pitt games over the years at Heinz and I don't care if it's UM or VT, ALL the uppers should always be a $1 outside of those three opponents mentioned above. Atmosphere is the key to recruiting 4/5 star players and the coaches right now are at a major disadvantage due to a morgue like environment with empty yellow seats like yesterday. Can you image if you are an elite 4/5 recruit at yesterday's game and then go to OSU the following week? Terrible and then we have no chance.
Change is necessary in any business if you want to be successful. If we want to compete for ACC championships on a yearly basis, we must change unless you are happy going 7-5 or 8-4 and playing in a meaningless bowl game year after year which is our current setup.
H2P!
Here's the bottom line as I mentioned, the AD (SP/Barnes/Lyke) keeps doing the same thing over and over again at Heinz and you think one great atmosphere game vs Penn State is going to change things in recruiting. LOL. No way! Elite 4/5 star recruits aren't dumb and the PSU/OSU's who played non attractive opponents as well yesterday had over 100K people in their building so those coaches will negative recruit against us. I get we don't have the fan base to have 107K which is OK but that goes back to having the on campus stadium which should be $55K with a great atmosphere and out of Heinz morgue. Tarping is for minor leagues (bad look) and will lead to more negative recruiting by our rivals.
If we are staying at Heinz, what do you have to lose by selling all of the upper deck seats for a $1 unless we are playing PSU, WVU or ND? I would also argue that the loyal season ticket fan who is paying a lot more to sit in the lower bowl should be the first to get access to as many tickets as they want for the desirable games before they go on sale to the public at a minimum of a $100 or more. I've seen enough Pitt games over the years at Heinz and I don't care if it's UM or VT, ALL the uppers should always be a $1 outside of those three opponents mentioned above. Atmosphere is the key to recruiting 4/5 star players and the coaches right now are at a major disadvantage due to a morgue like environment with empty yellow seats like yesterday. Can you image if you are an elite 4/5 recruit at yesterday's game and then go to OSU the following week? Terrible and then we have no chance.
Change is necessary in any business if you want to be successful. If we want to compete for ACC championships on a yearly basis, we must change unless you are happy going 7-5 or 8-4 and playing in a meaningless bowl game year after year which is our current setup.
H2P!
You can’t put tickets on stubhub for $1. Minimum is $6 then the buyer pays fees so it comes out to $10 min per ticket. A lot of tickets around my section are university owned and they were all on stubhub for $6.
State College doesn’t have a population of 250k to 300k. The entire county has a population of 160k. Calling Philly and DC close is ridiculous as both are 3+ hours drives. Heck DC is only 15 minutes closer to state college than it is to Pittsburgh. Would you consider places like DC, Cleveland and Columbus nearby to Pittsburgh?
Pitt can do whatever they want with Stub hub. They own the tickets and stub hub is a customer. Get creative. If not, then come up with a advertising campaign of $1 for all uppers through face book, twitter, NEW food or beer specials for the really unattractive games. They need to try something different because the current campaign clearly isn't working.
Night game, FIREWORKS.
Yinzers love them some fireworks!
Crowd will stay longer too.
Selling tickets cheaply might get more purchased... but also makes it easier to not go. If you spent $1 or even $5, and it's raining, sub zero, or hotter then hades (or Albany) it's an easy decision to say "nah". Especially knowing you have to pay parking and concessions too.
And even if you get people to show up, it's still an easy decision to leave early, like so many did at the half or shortly thereafter yesterday. That was due to bad opponent, comfortable lead, the heat, and in particular, a boring poorly played second half. Some of those things, there's no control over.
Tarping or not selling the upper decks would concentrate the crowds which might improve the initial optics. And the increased cost might entice more to use their tickets, and stay a little longer. Honestly though, I don't know that's true either, it was a pretty lame and hot second half yesterday, no matter what you might have paid.
And even if you get people to show up, it's still an easy decision to leave early, like so many did at the half or shortly thereafter yesterday. That was due to bad opponent, comfortable lead, the heat, and in particular, a boring poorly played second half. Some of those things, there's no control over.
Tarping or not selling the upper decks would concentrate the crowds which might improve the initial optics. And the increased cost might entice more to use their tickets, and stay a little longer. Honestly though, I don't know that's true either, it was a pretty lame and hot second half yesterday, no matter what you might have paid.
Did anyone watch the Stanford/San Diego State game at Standord? The crowd was worse than Pitt. Even the Wisconsin game had plenty of empties.
Pitt simply has too much supply for a product with low demand. Decreasing the availability might not change this fact, but at least it would look better. If it looks better, then the team might feel more supported. Fans might stay longer because their ticket is slightly more valuable.
You're speculating. You may be correct, but it's still speculation.
The Head Coach, who gets paid millions to lead the program speculates that the negative recruiting tarps would cause outweighs any perceived benefits they would provide. Also speculation, but a risk he doesn't want the program to face.
I agree with him.
Just a couple of comments:
1) When we had an on-campus stadium during the winning years back in the 70's and 80's, we rarely drew more than 45,000 or 50,000, except for a game against the nitters or the hoopies. And we were winning consistently. So once again, that on-campus stadium argument goes by the wayside for just that reason. Besides, it's not going to happen any time in the next 100 years no matter how much a few people say it has to happen. Parking, logistics, location are all HUGE obstacles.
2) Even if we'd build an on-campus stadium in some magical dreamland, it shouldn't seat more than 50,000, and that's even a stretch. No matter if we're winning or losing, we can consistently draw 45,000 for good games. Let demand for tickets exceed supply. That's one sure way to generate interest and demand for tickets.
1) When we had an on-campus stadium during the winning years back in the 70's and 80's, we rarely drew more than 45,000 or 50,000, except for a game against the nitters or the hoopies. And we were winning consistently. So once again, that on-campus stadium argument goes by the wayside for just that reason. Besides, it's not going to happen any time in the next 100 years no matter how much a few people say it has to happen. Parking, logistics, location are all HUGE obstacles.
2) Even if we'd build an on-campus stadium in some magical dreamland, it shouldn't seat more than 50,000, and that's even a stretch. No matter if we're winning or losing, we can consistently draw 45,000 for good games. Let demand for tickets exceed supply. That's one sure way to generate interest and demand for tickets.
Considering that recruiting has been pretty much the same under PN, PC, TG and DW I wouldn't expect a nicely done tarping design to change recruiting much either. At the very least, it makes the stadium look better. It might however, improve the way fans treat using their tickets.
Agree for the most part. We have put as many players in the NFL over the last two years as Penn State. However, we have to win games to get better recruits. Though, putting fans in the seats make a difference and kids want to play in full stadiums all the time. We lose kids because we aren't winning, and can't fill stadium. Though we keep putting kids in the NFL. Go figure.
The University of South Carolina had a great atmosphere despite being terrible for a long time.
It's not rocket science here , to fill up Heinz Field on a consistent basis Pitt needs to be a consistent top 20 team with occasional runs at the national championship. Anything less just won't cut it in Pgh .
It doesnt matter what the ticket prices are if they're not a winner . Sure you'd get a few more fans in the joint if you sold lousy seats for $5 , but you will not sell enough to make a hugh difference .
Having a smaller on campus stadium will not generate a much different environment , it's winning that creates the excitement that makes college football special at places like PSU . If they had years of similar success or lack of it their attendance would suffer too . The tradition of winning and actually doing it is the ticket .
Pitt needs to win and in doing so student interest in the program will build so it's a must thing to do on Saturday . Once this is accomplished they also need to try and sell 2000/3000 additional season tickets per yr. for a prolonged time. It's not a problem that can be solved overnight there's too many years of bad football and bad decisions that have caused this lack of interest . First things first they have to WIN !
It doesnt matter what the ticket prices are if they're not a winner . Sure you'd get a few more fans in the joint if you sold lousy seats for $5 , but you will not sell enough to make a hugh difference .
Having a smaller on campus stadium will not generate a much different environment , it's winning that creates the excitement that makes college football special at places like PSU . If they had years of similar success or lack of it their attendance would suffer too . The tradition of winning and actually doing it is the ticket .
Pitt needs to win and in doing so student interest in the program will build so it's a must thing to do on Saturday . Once this is accomplished they also need to try and sell 2000/3000 additional season tickets per yr. for a prolonged time. It's not a problem that can be solved overnight there's too many years of bad football and bad decisions that have caused this lack of interest . First things first they have to WIN !
The Steelers don't even fill Heinz to capacity anymore and they are a great team with some of the best players of the current generation. No way Pitt will do it. Downsize the stadium to 40-45,000 and it will look full every week. Close the upper deck endzone and away sideline (I don't care about TV, fans want to sit on the home sideline for a multitude of reasons). People would be packed in and it'd be a better atmosphere.
I think youre missing my point. And yes i do think those areas are driveable. People make the drive from those areas to go to State College. My point is THERE's NOTHING ELSE TO DO IN THAT AREA OF THE STATE. PSU is their pro team. We have mlb baseball, nfl football, nhl, riverhounds, museums, theaters all in competition for the entertainment dollar. But winning will pique interest. If the product is good the people come out. Look at the Pirates. When they were winning fans came out. Now.... Not so much.
It's all about winning . Just about every time Pitts had a big game in front of a large crowd they've sh.t the bed . They need to win and do a lot of it for a long enough period of time to gain a new loyal fan base .
The bb program is the perfect example , they were really good for yrs and tickets were hard to get , but now after a few really bad yrs and some really horrible administration decisions you can pick your seat . Winning yr in and yr out that's what programs like PSU ,OSU Michigan's etc do and their fans aren't about to miss a home game . Pitts yrs away from this and more importantly a lot of wins a way.
You can't win or compete for championships year after year without 4/5 star recruits. Look at the recruiting rankings. This isn't the NFL where you can buy free agents or get a top 5 player because we have a bad record. If you don't have the atmosphere, elite players aren't going to come which has been proven. Heinz has failed on all levels. Time for a change in strategy.
Well the population of the city and the region were significantly bigger 40 years ago so even when were were contending for national titles with more people and an on-campus stadium we couldn't draw consistently. We've never had great attendance, probably never will (its now declining across the entire sport), and the debate is always at the margins. Yet here we are again.
I'd argue that the population is not very relevant, considering that many college towns are small but end up with 70-100k per game. What matters so much more are factors like fan culture, and program success. We don't stand much of a change to improve the fan culture playing in a stadium way to large, with easy to obtain cheap tickets, ugly mustard colored empty seats, buses that carry students in and out, not being allowed to tailgate until 5pm, scheduling around the Pirates, etc. Combine those things with mediocre season after mediocre season, and it will never change.
Those college towns tend to be the official team of the entire rural parts of their states. Very different for a pro city. We're both a pro sports town AND a relatively small city for pro sports at that.
They would still have great attendance if only non rural fans could come to games.
But I don't disagree that this puts Pitt at a disadvantage.
Well if you mean they have twice as many undergrads interested in football than us, that might be true too. Both (mostly) because we're smaller than giant SEC and Big 1G football powers and because cities have other things to do and maybe the type of students who are less interested in Big Football
I don't buy the city argument. It's just a convenient excuse for a non committal fan base to use. Sure, it plays a role, but I think it comes down to how much the fans care and what priority level they place on going to their school's football game. Plenty of people living in cities like Pittsburgh and Philly will travel to State College because attending the game is important for them. They don't use the excuse of "I'm in a city and there is sooooo much stuff happening." It is high priority to attend the game. In part, because the program is good. In part, because their ticket means something and isn't cheap. In part, because they greatly enjoyed the experience while younger, and still do.
Any tickets not used for earlier games can now (thank you heather) be traded in for future games this season.
So.....for those seats purchased for albany...and let's face it....lots of people would choose to avoid 90 degrees to watch albany.....many will be traded in for VA Tech.
Further......all season ticket holders were invited to buy $10 tickets for a military family of 4 to attend the va tech game
The result......if the football team does their part.....will be a close to sold out crowd for the VA Tech game.
It doesnt solve all problems.....but once again I commend heather for a smart move.
She continues to impress as effective and competent.
If you do away with the end zone upper deck, you are telling people who prefer to pay the least amount possible that IF they want to buy season tickets they are now forced to pay significantly more. You cant have a two tiered pricing system for the same seats (non purchased lower levels).
Given the apathy of the fan base, those upper deck buyers will never come back and the problem is now compounded with even more yellow than what we see today
