Yep..watched him for about three games before I realized his first name was not Judy..
Pitt Basketball Mt. Rushmore
- Thread starter BreakingPitt
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Correct. Brookin played all 4 years, averaging 24 minutes a game and scoring in double digits every year while shooting 50% from the field and 41% from 3....on teams that had significantly more talent than the current iteration of the Pitt panthers....guys like Charles Smith, Jerome Lane...or McDonalds AA guys like Bobby Martin or Brian Shorter.
I agree with the leader part and Im somewhat guilty of underrating Hinson's leadership. I think the narrative will start to change a lot regarding Hinson depending on how strong Pitt finishes this season. The remaining schedule is somewhat challenging but its not all that tough if we are being realistic. He needs to keep winning and get this team off the bubble and into the NCAA Tournament. He needs to show people this team is a contender for something and not a bubble team trying to backdoor its way into the NCAAs with other teams losing.
We have had past players "will" this program to wins in big moments and put the whole dam team on their back. Knight, Krauser, Fields, Wanamaker, etc.. Taking games over in critical moments, on offense and on defense. Living for the clutch moment, making the big play on defense, the big free throws, the big shot, etc... We aren't going to get high level defense and rebounding from Hinson, but we can get high level scoring to win, which at the end of the day is all that matters, winning. Hinson needs to continue to do his thing, score and shoot at a high level, and win.
Hinson has shown take over ability in the last 8 games. He is starting to will this team to some wins. He needs to do it the rest of the season.
If this team makes a significant run, Hinson's legacy will follow suit with other former greats before him. He will be viewed much more positively in terms of greatness.
He's got Jaland Lowe surging and Fede making a complete uturn the last 8 games. So there are zero excuses moving forward with regard to wins and losses. Other players have stepped up to help this team win this year. So its on Hinson and the rest of the team to go out there and do it.
It's almost as if how good their teammates were matters in things like winning championships.
Which, of course, has nothing at all to do with how good any particular player is or was.
Depends how much of an impact the actual "star" makes. Granted we are talking NBA now which is different than college. For someone like Jordan, he would still win NBA titles without Pippen and Rodman with lesser talents. The Bulls and Jordan just wouldn't have boat raced everyone as badly regular season or playoffs. Im talking prime Jordan here.
For someone like Russell, I also don't think it would matter much. We are talking about a guy that averaged 23 rebounds per game, an estimated 8-9 blocks per game, and an estimated 6 -7 steals per game. There are actual games recorded where he was rebounding over 20 and blocking over 20 shots in a single game. He was so much better than everyone else on defense its beyond absurd. Russell's defense is the equivalent to Bobby Orr's skating ability. Its in a class of its own.
Well first off, Bill Russell was an all time great, and I don't want anyone to think that I am arguing otherwise.
But come on, it wouldn't have mattered much if he didn't play on the most talented team in the league almost every year he was in the league? The guy who was his team's 6th man was so good that he is in the Hall of Fame and the award for the best sixth man in the league is named after him. Of course how good his teammates were mattered.
You take him off those Celtic teams and drop him in with, say, the Pistons and he doesn't win nearly as many titles. In fact he may not have won any. Because in team sports, teammates always matter.
Well of course you cant be playing with bottom of the barrel NBA talents. Im not saying that. But the Elite players in sports, Jordan, Russell, we saw Lebron James do it with the Cavs. These guys still have the ability to carry an average team to a Championship. Id take it step further and say the Elite of the Elite talents could potentially win with below average NBA players. No, they obviously wouldnt win with bottom of the barrel players, so if that is what you are saying, then I agree. We are talking about the best players to ever play a sport here.
That’s my point. Rod was very talented. He ate his way to the bench.
Fun little Russell fact for you Joe, you may know this or not.
Bill Russell was 6'10
Bill Russell had a 7'4 wingspan
Bill Russell had a 48 inch vertical
Bill Russell was the 7th best high jumper in the world in 1950s
Russell tied Charlie Dumas in the high jump, the Olympic gold medalist
He was ineligible to join the Olympic team at that time
Lebron James is 6'8, with a 7 foot wing span and a 44 inch vertical. Jordan was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan and 48 inch vertical.
Russell has both of those players "metrics beat" across the board. It doesn't take too much imagination to understand how or why this guy did what he did on defense. He has rarest of the rare athletic talent and measurables.
Also, the fact he claims Jordan would’ve won titles without Pippen who was one of the best wing defenders of all time and a pretty good offensive playmaker when he quite literally did not, kind of renders his entire argument meaningless, no?
And that’s from someone who thinks Jordan cannot ever be topped as the greatest
The best example of someone who is considered great a no doubt hall of famer is Draymond green. Really good player on those early Warriors teams. Versatile, tough defender. But they considered him a top 12 player in the game to either A) diminish Steph B) shit on older guys like when he told Barkley he wasn’t as good as him smh. Does anyone really think prime Draymond Green was taking a bad franchise to the playoffs like oh say Russell Westbrook sans KD? I mean it’s just such a stupid argument.
Jordan was a Bull for life except that silly little stop with the Wizards at the very end when he came back. He wasn't team jumping around like Lebron James trying to form super teams all over the place. The Bulls were not going to trade Pippen, thats just the team that was there. And he won with it. Any management is going to try to get some talent to work with him.
Look what James won with at the Cavs. He had Irving, Love, and not much else. And he still beat the Warriors and won an NBA title. Lebron James is really good obviously. He isn't Jordan. I don't think he is Jabbar either. But if James can do it, about 5 other guys could have done it too.
If the teams of Smith , Lane and Gore and company had competent coaching they’d have won a national championship and I think even without it they‘d beat everyone of JDs teams .
As far as the 4 best players at Pitt that I witnessed the first two are easy . I’m talking only talent , not what intangibles they brought to the teams they were on :
1) Billy Knight
2) Charles Smith
It becomes murky after that , you have ( in order )
Sam Young
Big Fella
Brian Shorter
Larry Harris
Sam Clancey
Jerome Lane
Melvin Bennett ( Peabody grad played 1 season turned pro incredible potential )
V Cummings
Stevan Adams ( raw talent only )
Chris Taft
Not to mention most of the fanbase wanted to run him off after his first year.
That's a bold proclamation.
When Uconn won the National Championship back in the day they had Ben Gordon, Okafor, Boone, Villanueva, and Williams. That's count them now, 5 first round NBA draft picks on one team. Not only did Pitt beat them, we won the regular season Big East conference championship over them.
You guys are again underrating the defensive ability of those past teams. And with all due respect to the Pitt team in the 80s, they could have had Coach K and they still would have lost to that Uconn team in a 7 game series.
I dont understand why Brad never got the respect that he deserves. He was the 6th man and a really good player as a sophomore on an Elite 8 team that earned a 1 seed.
People are enamored with "stats" and not with what it takes for actual winning. There is offense and there is defense in basketball.
Jordan is the greatest player of all time. And people only talk about 1 thing, offense. Jordan was a top 3, top 5 at absolute worst defensive player of all time too. When you bring offense and defense to the table, it just makes him look even better in comparison to other guys winning big like a Curry.
Pitt beat more talented teams because they had MEN playing for them who not only outmuscled the younger more talented teams but they also out schemed then having played in the same disciplined system for yrs under JD .
Blair throwing Thabeet to the ground over his back is a perfect example of Pitts physicality in those days .
If you can arrange the series please do ! I’ll take Pitt with Coach K .
In 1987, they had 2 completely different teams in the Final Four than the 3 who made it in 85.
I never chimed in....but to me the obvious is:
Don Hennon. Just look at all the top scoring games in Pitt history.
Billy Knight. Pitt's best team and most successful Pro.
Charles Smith. Arguably the second best player in Pitt history
Brandin Knight. Representative of the start of the great 2000's.
Don Hennon. Just look at all the top scoring games in Pitt history.
Billy Knight. Pitt's best team and most successful Pro.
Charles Smith. Arguably the second best player in Pitt history
Brandin Knight. Representative of the start of the great 2000's.
Those are the four numbers hanging in the rafters so this is probably the best answer actually.
The 1974 Pitt team beat 0 ranked teams. They did play 2 ranked teams that season. They lost to South Carolina by 17. Then they did manage to make it to the Elite 8. Then lost by 28 points in a total blowout in the Elite 8.
Billy Knight did have a good Pitt and NBA career. But they arent close to being the best Pitt team ever.
Knight built the program. The torch was passed to Krauser. The torch was then passed to Fields. The torch was then passed to Wanamaker. The torch started to lose its strength after this, but then it was passed to Patterson. Then the torch went out.
The torch was relit by Burton / Hinson. The torch has been passed to Lowe.
I love our past players like Blair, Young, Page, Brown, Gibbs etc... None of these guys were the real team captains and leaders. Leader and best player are not necessarily the same thing like in Fields case. The leaders and real captains are above in the first paragraph. The new leaders are in the 2nd paragraph. I think Brandin Cummings will be a leader for this program in the future.
I’m with you in a lot of your posts , but going straight from Billy Knight to Carl Krauser is forgetting the teams of the 80’s who had many great players/ leaders like Smith , Lane and Gore and it all started with Pitt getting pg Curtis Aiken out of Buffalo .
By the way Pitt wasn’t very good after BK left so how did he build the program ?
It wasn’t until Aiken came in 83 , ten yrs after Billy graduated , followed by Smith & Gore in 84 and then Lane in 85 that Pitt became a top national program . Guess Curtis doesn’t count as a great leader !
Not calling Sam Clancey ( late 70’s) a leader is also a major omission . You can’t look up his intensity , but you can look up his stats ! He’s all time great in Pitt bb .
After Smith and company left there was Brian Shorter and Sean Miller . Both great Pitt players , Shorter when healthy was a Burton on steroids , totally unstoppable, and I guess Sean wasn’t a great leader !
While Pitt wasn’t as good in JDs last few yrs here both JRob and Trey Woodall were great leaders .
If Lowe and Cummings careers at Pitt resemble any of the players I mentioned Pitt will be in good hands the next few yrs .
I was talking about Brandin Knight. I guess I should have said that. I was under the assumption the question was being asked in the golden era, meaning Ben Howland onward.
Let’s lot forget to mention the warrior who really got it all started: Rico Greer.
Brad is a lot like Darelle Porter, and I haven't seen anyone talking about him in this thread either. Nor does anyone talk about him when referencing the teams he played on.
It's no disrespect to either, they're just a notch below other guys.
L
Sam Clancy is still the only player in Pitt basketball history with 1,000 points and 1,000 rebounds.
Could you imagine a held ball struggle between Sam and The Big Fella ! Think the ball would explode!
Yeah actually didn't intend it to end up there, but when reviewing Blake's scoring output the other night and seeing all those top scores with "Hennon" next to it, it was a no brainer. We know Billy Knight is a no brainer. I think as is Charles Smith who might have been the best overall player to play here. Brandon was the mainstay to our BB rebirth and leader, so I gave him the nod over say Sam or Dejuan.
Charlie Hyatt
Don Hennon
Billy Knight
Charles Smith
Brandin Knight
Idk who the 4 should be but no Blake Hinson doesn't crack the top 5 unless we go to a final four on his back. Id put him in a key second tier with Jerome Lane, DeJuan Blair, Sam Young. Love Blake though.
Don Hennon
Billy Knight
Charles Smith
Brandin Knight
Idk who the 4 should be but no Blake Hinson doesn't crack the top 5 unless we go to a final four on his back. Id put him in a key second tier with Jerome Lane, DeJuan Blair, Sam Young. Love Blake though.
Can probably add Larry Harris to the second tier. #3 on all-time scoring list. I don’t think I’ve seen his name mentioned.
And he played without the 3 point line. There are often times questions regarding the best pure shooters in our history. I really think the answer to this was Larry Harris. Great stroke. Great rotation on the ball. Jason Matthews could not compare to him. The only one in his class was Billy Knight.
Can’t say I’m old enough to remember Harris at Pitt. I can say anybody with almost 2,000 career points - at the very least - deserves mention for any school’s top players of all-time.
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