Pitt Suspensions/Injuries-Recruiting 4/5 star players is critical

[joeydavid]

I'm pretty sure a Doctor should be able to follow what you are stating.

I have said this for years- Pitt consistently over schedules based on their ability to win games. As a result they appear to be a middling program. If they took an approach to scheduling more like Wisconsin or even PedSt it would ultimately provide Pitt with the perception of a more successful program than what they have right now. That's what Wisconsin football is built on - nothing more nothing less.

Syracuse is another football team that was shackle by the scheduling habits of their athletic director. They finally have seen the benefits of scheduling an Incredibly soft schedule so that they become a bowl eligible team again.

Once again, "bringing it back to Pitt football," this misframes the issue.
Has Wisconsin been "FAR" more successful against the teams that outrecruit them? That's what would be relevant to Pitt football. Does the Wisconsin model allow you to beat teams the recruiting rankings say you shouldn't beat at a consistent enough level to dominate college football for 3 decades? That is the question for Pitt football. Not whether Wisconsin has been able to have a winning record against Purdue and Ill. for three decades, because Pitt's schedule isn't made up of teams that recruit at that low a level.

 

[pittdan77]

The guy is right and he showed the examples to back it. Why does his post count matter on this subject?

Because the premise that the B1G schedule that Wisconsin plays is terrible and the model that schools like Wisky and Michigan State and a host of other schools use can't be used in Pittsburgh. Yeah, Pitt's non-conference schedule is harder but I don't see the conference as a "meat grinder" in comparison to the B1G. Actually, scheduling an easier schedule wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree "just get the best players" would be the best model to follow but nobody seems to have a workable suggestion for how to do that at Pitt. It's kind of a lazy argument because it doesn't address reality. It's not like Narduzzi was handed a wad of cash and a helicopter like Franklin has to use. PSU went all in because someone finally figured out that if they're going to be the evil empire, they might as well double down. Pitt isn't doing that. Someone who posts regularly and follows the program knows that (to the comment I made). So you have to get creative.

Narduzzi is working on his third class (well, really "his" second) and things have steadily improved. The record will need to do that and the pipeline to the NFL needs to keep flowing as well if you hope to improve recruiting.

 

[joeydavid]

The B1G west was the worst P5 division last year. The coastal finished 3rd most difficult. Of course no-one wants to talk about that in media or message boards.

Because the premise that the B1G schedule that Wisconsin plays is terrible and the model that schools like Wisky and Michigan State and a host of other schools use can't be used in Pittsburgh. Yeah, Pitt's non-conference schedule is harder but I don't see the conference as a "meat grinder" in comparison to the B1G. Actually, scheduling an easier schedule wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree "just get the best players" would be the best model to follow but nobody seems to have a workable suggestion for how to do that at Pitt. It's kind of a lazy argument because it doesn't address reality. It's not like Narduzzi was handed a wad of cash and a helicopter like Franklin has to use. PSU went all in because someone finally figured out that if they're going to be the evil empire, they might as well double down. Pitt isn't doing that. Someone who posts regularly and follows the program knows that (to the comment I made). So you have to get creative.

Narduzzi is working on his third class (well, really "his" second) and things have steadily improved. The record will need to do that and the pipeline to the NFL needs to keep flowing as well if you hope to improve recruiting.

 

[pittdan77]

The B1G was the worst P5 division last year.

You've heard of the Big12? USC opened 1-3 and played in the Rose Bowl.

How is the B1G worse?

 

[joeydavid]

I was talking divisions and meant B1G west.

You've heard of the Big12? USC opened 1-3 and played in the Rose Bowl.

How is the B1G worse?

 

[DiehardPanther]

With all due respect, I don't think that I'm the one who is being closed off here.

Look, this is not remotely complex and is very easily settled.

Can you name 20 programs in the United States who, in the past three decades, have been more successful than Wisconsin?

I cannot do that.

Hell, I'm not sure that there are 10 programs that fit that mold? I'd probably place them somewhere between 12–15.

That's pretty damn good for anyone and it's remarkable for a school from a state that doesn't produce much high end local talent.

If you offered me a deal right now guaranteeing that Pitt would be one of the 12 or 15 most successful programs in the country over the next 30 years, but that we would struggle to consistently beat the Clemsons and Florida States of the world, I would sign up for that deal in a New York second.

Every single year, everyone else out-recruits Wisconsin and yet they are annually at or near the top of the Big Ten standings. How do you reconcile those two things?

Oh, right. They play in a weak (and three year-old) division.

But don't take my word for it - or anyone else's - do your own research. I promise that if you do you will find that their recruiting ratings are annually very low and their conference finishes are annually very high.

Every. Single. Year.

So they must be beating someone, right? And they've been doing it for about three decades now so the sample size is not exactly small.

Now, are they consistently beating Ohio State? No, they are not. Then again, who the hell is?

I didn't bother reading one of the articles you posted because the first one was just junk and proved nothing.

It failed to contextualize the issue. If you were to apply the same standard to everyone else, you would find similar results. There would be some outliers on the negative side of the ledger and some outliers on the positive end as well. However, most everyone else would look very similar the Wisconsin regardless of their recruiting rankings. Most would look much, much worse.

Can we get a 2 for 1? I would love to have the results Wisky basketball and football have had over the last 15 years. That would be incredible.

 

[cashisking884]

The B1G west was the worst P5 division last year. The coastal finished 3rd most difficult. Of course no-one wants to talk about that in media or message boards.

The Big Ten West is BY FAR the least talented division in all of P5 football. Which is to be expected. They have no recruiting hot bed to pull from (Cali, Florida, Texas, the south). And they don't have the type of money to go out and build ungodly facilities and hire elite recruiters. So they have no ability to go into those areas and win recruiting battles, unlike a Michigan or Ohio State, that recruit far better than their geographic area says they should.

 

[pittdan77]

I was talking divisions and meant B1G west.

SEC East but I get your point.

 

[Jpripper88]

Because the premise that the B1G schedule that Wisconsin plays is terrible and the model that schools like Wisky and Michigan State and a host of other schools use can't be used in Pittsburgh. Yeah, Pitt's non-conference schedule is harder but I don't see the conference as a "meat grinder" in comparison to the B1G. Actually, scheduling an easier schedule wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree "just get the best players" would be the best model to follow but nobody seems to have a workable suggestion for how to do that at Pitt. It's kind of a lazy argument because it doesn't address reality. It's not like Narduzzi was handed a wad of cash and a helicopter like Franklin has to use. PSU went all in because someone finally figured out that if they're going to be the evil empire, they might as well double down. Pitt isn't doing that. Someone who posts regularly and follows the program knows that (to the comment I made). So you have to get creative.

Narduzzi is working on his third class (well, really "his" second) and things have steadily improved. The record will need to do that and the pipeline to the NFL needs to keep flowing as well if you hope to improve recruiting.

But, the model doesn't show what was claimed. Wisconsin wins the games they should and loses the games they should. Then good coaching and/or experience (if you want to give credit to the "model") lets them beat the teams they are even with a majority of the time. Plus, name those other schools. The BY FAR best example of sustained success with lack luster recruiting is Wisconsin. MSU is next and who knows where their program is about to go. The rest of the examples given in here were bad. One was absolutely awful.

Pitt doesn't need to get the best players, but they do probably need to be in the top 1/4 of the league they play in to compete for championships. Luckily, they do have a similar advantage to Wisconsin in that their division is clearly weaker than the other side. Years like this one, we don't have to beat a single top program until the ACC-CG, if we can get there.

 

[pittdan77]

But, the model doesn't show what was claimed. Wisconsin wins the games they should and loses the games they should. Then good coaching and/or experience (if you want to give credit to the "model") lets them beat the teams they are even with a majority of the time. Plus, name those other schools. The BY FAR best example of sustained success with lack luster recruiting is Wisconsin. MSU is next and who knows where their program is about to go. The rest of the examples given in here were bad. One was absolutely awful.

Pitt doesn't need to get the best players, but they do probably need to be in the top 1/4 of the league they play in to compete for championships. Luckily, they do have a similar advantage to Wisconsin in that their division is clearly weaker than the other side. Years like this one, we don't have to beat a single top program until the ACC-CG, if we can get there.

I don't think we necessarily disagree. Just think you have to start somewhere and the point that we would be a lot happier at Pitt with similar results as Wisconsin over the last ten years is valid.