Potential changes to the 12 team CFP

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Obviously with the death of the Pac 12, they are out. So the 5 auto bids to P5 conf champs and +1 to the highest ranked Group of 5 making 6 auto bids and 6 at large.

So I would guess it now would be 5 auto now with 7 at large.

But the greed of the SEC and Big 10 seemingly knows no boundaries. And the networks want no upstarts in their invitational, which essentially the 4 team CFP was.

Also, they don't want to see the loser of say the SEC title game to now move from a bye to having to be the first non bye (5th seed).

Because the top 4 seeds get byes. If I am running college football, here is how I would set this up (channeling my inner SMF)

4 Auto Qualifiers from the P4 Conference Champs
1 Auto Qualifier from the best Group of Five, provided they are ranked. If no ranked teams, then there is an additional at large team.

The 4 byes are the 4 conference champions. Sorry folks, This isn't fantasy football. In all sports there are weaker divisions. Sometimes a Div Champ has a worse record than the wild card teams in MLB or the NFL. Tough shit. You want these uber conferences, then win it.

If the best Group of 5 Champ is top 10, they get the 5th seed.


Seeds 5 thru 8 host the opening rd.

5vs12
6vs11
7vs10
8vs9

Then the winners of the open round are reseeded accordingly. If say 11 beats 6, then 11 plays the 1 seed. If 6 beats ll then they play 2nd seed. Makes sense??

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

i like it Recruits. i think with current setup, Notre Dame can never really get a bye, which is nice.

The re-seeding idea after every round is interesting too.

on an unrelated note, i absolutely LOVE, LOVE the idea of a home playoff game on a college stadium. Think that is one huge glaring thing missing from college football.

 

[cashisking884]

The 4 byes are the 4 conference champions. Sorry folks, This isn't fantasy football. In all sports there are weaker divisions. Sometimes a Div Champ has a worse record than the wild card teams in MLB or the NFL. Tough shit. You want these uber conferences, then win it.

Sure. But especially in the NFL, there’s no inherent reason why one division is better than the other year to year.

That’s not true in college football. Alabama is almost not even playing the same sport as the Big 12.

The winner of the Big 12 is not going to be in the same ballpark as the top 2 teams in the SEC on a year to year basis.

That’s why the automatic bye argument is not as compelling as it is in the NFL.

 

[topdecktiger]

Obviously with the death of the Pac 12, they are out. So the 5 auto bids to P5 conf champs and +1 to the highest ranked Group of 5 making 6 auto bids and 6 at large.

So I would guess it now would be 5 auto now with 7 at large.

But the greed of the SEC and Big 10 seemingly knows no boundaries. And the networks want no upstarts in their invitational, which essentially the 4 team CFP was.

Also, they don't want to see the loser of say the SEC title game to now move from a bye to having to be the first non bye (5th seed).

Because the top 4 seeds get byes. If I am running college football, here is how I would set this up (channeling my inner SMF)

4 Auto Qualifiers from the P4 Conference Champs
1 Auto Qualifier from the best Group of Five, provided they are ranked. If no ranked teams, then there is an additional at large team.

The 4 byes are the 4 conference champions. Sorry folks, This isn't fantasy football. In all sports there are weaker divisions. Sometimes a Div Champ has a worse record than the wild card teams in MLB or the NFL. Tough shit. You want these uber conferences, then win it.

If the best Group of 5 Champ is top 10, they get the 5th seed.


Seeds 5 thru 8 host the opening rd.

5vs12
6vs11
7vs10
8vs9

Then the winners of the open round are reseeded accordingly. If say 11 beats 6, then 11 plays the 1 seed. If 6 beats ll then they play 2nd seed. Makes sense??

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but no conference gets an automatic bid. Those spots just go to the six highest-rated conference champs, no matter who they are.

If we assume that the Pac-12 dissolves (leaving 9 conference), the other 7 conferences would be insane to agree to change the playoff format. The logical move would be for them to refuse any change, and keep the top-6 conference format. That would not only give the other 7 leagues more opportunity to make the playoffs, it would also punish the schools that joined the SEC and Big Ten.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but no conference gets an automatic bid. Those spots just go to the six highest-rated conference champs, no matter who they are.

If we assume that the Pac-12 dissolves (leaving 9 conference), the other 7 conferences would be insane to agree to change the playoff format. The logical move would be for them to refuse any change, and keep the top-6 conference format. That would not only give the other 7 leagues more opportunity to make the playoffs, it would also punish the schools that joined the SEC and Big Ten.

That might be what you want. But that is not what is going to happen. ESPN or Fox or NBC or CBS or whoever is televising wants Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, OSU, PSU, ND, USC, Texas to make the playoffs. You damn well bet they will do everything they can to prevent a Villanova from winning it all, or Butler making the final game or George Mason making the Final 4.

While this will be more of a true playoff, it is still going to be largely a blueblood invitational.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If we assume that the Pac-12 dissolves (leaving 9 conference), the other 7 conferences would be insane to agree to change the playoff format. The logical move would be for them to refuse any change, and keep the top-6 conference format.

I agree, they should absolutely hold firm.

And then when the Big Ten and the SEC say, OK, no problem, we'll set up our own system that excludes you entirely those schools/conferences probably won't like it. But at least they will have held firm to their ideals and stood up for themselves.

Then in the future, instead of saying that someone cut off their nose to spite their face we could just say that someone G5ed themself.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Obviously with the death of the Pac 12, they are out. So the 5 auto bids to P5 conf champs and +1 to the highest ranked Group of 5 making 6 auto bids and 6 at large.

So I would guess it now would be 5 auto now with 7 at large.

But the greed of the SEC and Big 10 seemingly knows no boundaries. And the networks want no upstarts in their invitational, which essentially the 4 team CFP was.

Also, they don't want to see the loser of say the SEC title game to now move from a bye to having to be the first non bye (5th seed).

Because the top 4 seeds get byes. If I am running college football, here is how I would set this up (channeling my inner SMF)

4 Auto Qualifiers from the P4 Conference Champs
1 Auto Qualifier from the best Group of Five, provided they are ranked. If no ranked teams, then there is an additional at large team.

The 4 byes are the 4 conference champions. Sorry folks, This isn't fantasy football. In all sports there are weaker divisions. Sometimes a Div Champ has a worse record than the wild card teams in MLB or the NFL. Tough shit. You want these uber conferences, then win it.

If the best Group of 5 Champ is top 10, they get the 5th seed.


Seeds 5 thru 8 host the opening rd.

5vs12
6vs11
7vs10
8vs9

Then the winners of the open round are reseeded accordingly. If say 11 beats 6, then 11 plays the 1 seed. If 6 beats ll then they play 2nd seed. Makes sense??

Reasonable and Realistic

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Obviously with the death of the Pac 12, they are out. So the 5 auto bids to P5 conf champs and +1 to the highest ranked Group of 5 making 6 auto bids and 6 at large.

So I would guess it now would be 5 auto now with 7 at large.

But the greed of the SEC and Big 10 seemingly knows no boundaries. And the networks want no upstarts in their invitational, which essentially the 4 team CFP was.

Also, they don't want to see the loser of say the SEC title game to now move from a bye to having to be the first non bye (5th seed).

Because the top 4 seeds get byes. If I am running college football, here is how I would set this up (channeling my inner SMF)

4 Auto Qualifiers from the P4 Conference Champs
1 Auto Qualifier from the best Group of Five, provided they are ranked. If no ranked teams, then there is an additional at large team.

The 4 byes are the 4 conference champions. Sorry folks, This isn't fantasy football. In all sports there are weaker divisions. Sometimes a Div Champ has a worse record than the wild card teams in MLB or the NFL. Tough shit. You want these uber conferences, then win it.

If the best Group of 5 Champ is top 10, they get the 5th seed.


Seeds 5 thru 8 host the opening rd.

5vs12
6vs11
7vs10
8vs9

Then the winners of the open round are reseeded accordingly. If say 11 beats 6, then 11 plays the 1 seed. If 6 beats ll then they play 2nd seed. Makes sense??

I wished they'd stop outsourcing playoff games to bowls. There's no need. Time to cut the cord. I'd have the higher seeds host until the semis. Then have the Final Four at one location.

 

[topdecktiger]

I agree, they should absolutely hold firm.

And then when the Big Ten and the SEC say, OK, no problem, we'll set up our own system that excludes you entirely those schools/conferences probably won't like it. But at least they will have held firm to their ideals and stood up for themselves.

Then in the future, instead of saying that someone cut off their nose to spite their face we could just say that someone G5ed themself.

The SEC and Big Ten can't make it on their own splitting off. If you cut off too many fan bases, which that would do, there isn't enough money to make it work.

 

[topdecktiger]

That might be what you want. But that is not what is going to happen. ESPN or Fox or NBC or CBS or whoever is televising wants Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, OSU, PSU, ND, USC, Texas to make the playoffs. You damn well bet they will do everything they can to prevent a Villanova from winning it all, or Butler making the final game or George Mason making the Final 4.

While this will be more of a true playoff, it is still going to be largely a blueblood invitational.

In your basketball analogy, the fact thing you claim they want to prevent already happens.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

In your basketball analogy, the fact thing you claim they want to prevent already happens.

Explain yourself?? I don't get what you are saying.

 

[WillyDavis33]

I wished they'd stop outsourcing playoff games to bowls. There's no need. Time to cut the cord. I'd have the higher seeds host until the semis. Then have the Final Four at one location.

Yes time to stop using bowls outside of some consolation. The playoffs need to take center stage and played at the higher seed's home stadium.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yes time to stop using bowls outside of some consolation. The playoffs need to take center stage and played at the higher seed's home stadium.

Well trust me, a 12 team playoff will make any bowl game the NIT.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The SEC and Big Ten can't make it on their own splitting off. If you cut off too many fan bases, which that would do, there isn't enough money to make it work.

Sure there is. Because you'd have so many fewer mouths to feed. You'd have networks tripping over each other to throw truckloads of money at the SEC-Big Ten-Anyone else not dumb enough to sit it out playoff series.

 

[cashisking884]

The SEC and Big Ten can't make it on their own splitting off. If you cut off too many fan bases, which that would do, there isn't enough money to make it work.

Bruh…

 

[h2p_5150]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but no conference gets an automatic bid. Those spots just go to the six highest-rated conference champs, no matter who they are.

If we assume that the Pac-12 dissolves (leaving 9 conference), the other 7 conferences would be insane to agree to change the playoff format. The logical move would be for them to refuse any change, and keep the top-6 conference format. That would not only give the other 7 leagues more opportunity to make the playoffs, it would also punish the schools that joined the SEC and Big Ten.

The other conferences don't have much leverage. The CFP is not run by the NCAA. If the other conferences play hardball, what is stopping the Big Ten and SEC from creating their own separate playoff and rendering the other conferences completely irrelevant?

 

[h2p_5150]

The SEC and Big Ten can't make it on their own splitting off. If you cut off too many fan bases, which that would do, there isn't enough money to make it work.

The Big Ten and SEC have almost every large fanbase locked up already. Notre Dame and FSU might be the only exceptions to that.

And people will still watch. The CFP is already totally dominated by the SEC most years, but it chugs along just great.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I don't know. If college football continues to fracture and there's a split, I don't think that's good for the B1G and SEC.

I always come back to the analogy that nobody cares about NFL lite. I'm a huge college football fan and I won't really care. They'll still have their fans, but I'm guessing a lot of interest goes away. That's not good for TV networks.

 

[topdecktiger]

The Big Ten and SEC have almost every large fanbase locked up already. Notre Dame and FSU might be the only exceptions to that.

And people will still watch. The CFP is already totally dominated by the SEC most years, but it chugs along just great.

People won't still watch if they don't have teams that compete.

Even the playoff games barely get the same audience of the average NFL game. A big chunk of that depends on "outside" fans watching. You can't cut out half your fans base and succeed.

 

[topdecktiger]

The other conferences don't have much leverage. The CFP is not run by the NCAA. If the other conferences play hardball, what is stopping the Big Ten and SEC from creating their own separate playoff and rendering the other conferences completely irrelevant?

Because there isn't a large enough audience for a playoff that only allows teams from two conferences.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

No ACC school is in the top 16 for fanbase sizes according to most studies. FSU is around 18-20. Clemson isn't in the top 20.

 

[PITT 76]

The 25 largest FBS college football stadiums in the United States:

RANK	SCHOOL	STADIUM	CAPACITY
1	Michigan	Michigan Stadium (Ann Arbor, Mich.)	107,601
2	Penn State	Beaver Stadium (University Park, Pa.)	106,572
3	Ohio State	Ohio Stadium (Columbus, Ohio)	102,780
4	Texas A&M	Kyle Field (College Station, Texas)	102,733
5	LSU	Tiger Stadium (Baton Rouge, La.)	102,321
6	Tennessee	Neyland Stadium (Knoxville, Tenn.)	101,915
7	Alabama	Bryant-Denny Stadium (Tuscaloosa, Ala.)	101,821
8	Texas	Darrell K Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium (Austin, Texas)	100,119
9	Georgia	Sanford Stadium (Athens, Ga.)	92,746
10	UCLA	Rose Bowl (Pasadena, Calif.)	91,136
11	Florida	Ben Hill Griffin Stadium (Gainesville, Fla.)	88,548
12	Auburn	Jordan-Hare Stadium (Auburn, Ala.)	87,451
13	Oklahoma	Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium (Norman, Okla.)	86,112
14	Nebraska	Memorial Stadium (Lincoln, Neb.)	85,458
15	Clemson	Clemson Memorial Stadium (Clemson, S.C.)	81,500
16	Notre Dame	Notre Dame Stadium (South Bend, Ind.)	80,795
17	Florida State	Doak Campbell Stadium (Tallahassee, Fla.)	79,560
18	South Carolina	Williams-Brice Stadium (Columbia, S.C.)	77,559
19	Southern Cal	Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (Los Angeles)	77,500
20	Wisconsin	Camp Randall Stadium (Madison, Wisc.)	75,822
21	Michigan State	Spartan Stadium (East Lansing, Mich.)	74,866
22	Arkansas	Donald W. Reynolds Razorback Stadium (Fayetteville, Ark.)	72,000
23	Washington	Husky Stadium (Seattle, Wash.)	70,138
24	Iowa	Kinnick Stadium (Iowa City, Iowa)	69,250
25	temple	phillie

 

[PITT 76]

Here are the 25 largest capacity stadiums that serve as primary homes for FBS college football teams ahead of the 2023 season.

Source: ncaa.com

 

[Team_Pitt_Fan]

I agree, they should absolutely hold firm.

And then when the Big Ten and the SEC say, OK, no problem, we'll set up our own system that excludes you entirely those schools/conferences probably won't like it. But at least they will have held firm to their ideals and stood up for themselves.

Then in the future, instead of saying that someone cut off their nose to spite their face we could just say that someone G5ed themself.

Let them lol

 

[Pitt79]

Sure. But especially in the NFL, there’s no inherent reason why one division is better than the other year to year.

That’s not true in college football. Alabama is almost not even playing the same sport as the Big 12.

The winner of the Big 12 is not going to be in the same ballpark as the top 2 teams in the SEC on a year to year basis.

That’s why the automatic bye argument is not as compelling as it is in the NFL.

Who cares, that's still SUBJECVTIVE that the top 2 SEC are better than the B12, champs get byes, period. Make it a rule, F SEC #2 if their feelings are hurt. Win more.

 

[Pitt79]

Sure there is. Because you'd have so many fewer mouths to feed. You'd have networks tripping over each other to throw truckloads of money at the SEC-Big Ten-Anyone else not dumb enough to sit it out playoff series.

Is everybody going to care to watch the B1G/SEC playoffs, like I've said, if my team isn't in it, I'm not going to care, I already haven't watched the CFP for years, while watching Pitt's bowl games a couple times each.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Is everybody going to care to watch the B1G/SEC playoffs, like I've said, if my team isn't in it, I'm not going to care, I already haven't watched the CFP for years, while watching Pitt's bowl games a couple times each.

You might not realize this, but they really don't care that someone who doesn't watch now won't watch then.

Not even one little bit.

 

[Pitt79]

You might not realize this, but they really don't care that someone who doesn't watch now won't watch then.

Not even one little bit.

The point is, maybe less people will watch if the time comes when their alma mater or local team is totally left out permanently?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The point is, maybe less people will watch if the time comes when their alma mater or local team is totally left out permanently?

If the two choices are that you can split a slightly larger pot a half dozen ways or you can split a slightly smaller pot two or three ways that isn't going to be a difficult choice for the people who are clearly motivated by money first, second and third.

 

[Pitt79]

If the two choices are that you can split a slightly larger pot a half dozen ways or you can split a slightly smaller pot two or three ways that isn't going to be a difficult choice for the people who are clearly motivated by money first, second and third.

Sure, and they can do what's best for them, but I personally am not interested in watching. I see COLLEGE football as a sport that I watch not because of the quality of the play or competition, but because of my personal and emotional connections to PITT, so a league of the very best quality teams facing off is not appealing to me. Even the NFL, I'll watch the Super Bowl and playoffs, but in the regular season, the only game I'm 100% sure to watch is the Steelers, even if they were 0-17, because I have personal connections with that specific team, so a Chiefs/Eagles game I can take or leave, while a Steelers/Texans game I'm at the edge of my seat hanging on every snap. Pitt/Wofford? I'm intensely interested, I'll DVR and rewatch it. Bama/Georgia? I probably won't watch.

 

[Burgh15]

Yes time to stop using bowls outside of some consolation. The playoffs need to take center stage and played at the higher seed's home stadium.

I never liked the neutral site games during the regular season either. College games in NFL stadiums feel so corporate and sterile. We see colleges play outdoors on grass all season and they move the conference title games inside on plastic and rubber.

The best atmosphere in the NFL is the conference championship games, so I could only imagine how a college campus would be getting to host a playoff game. I cannot wait to see it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Sure, and they can do what's best for them, but I personally am not interested in watching.

And in turn, they personally don't care.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The SEC and Big Ten can't make it on their own splitting off. If you cut off too many fan bases, which that would do, there isn't enough money to make it work.

The Big Ten and SEC have almost every large fanbase locked up already. Notre Dame and FSU might be the only exceptions to that.

And people will still watch. The CFP is already totally dominated by the SEC most years, but it chugs along just great.

I think what you could see happening is the Big Ten and SEC coming together, trimming some of their ‘small school fat’ (e.g., Northwestern, Vanderbilt) and then adding a few other fanbases to have the entire country covered. Add a few ACC schools (Clemson/FSU/Miami/UNC), and then schools like Colorado, Arizona State, Kansas, and either of the Virginia schools. That’d get them to around 32-36 which I think would be enough to do their own thing and split off.

It’s unfortunate, but I’ve seen it playing out this way for years now. I hope we can return to traditionalism/regionalism at some point because without it, CFB doesn’t have the same character it once did.

 

[Pitt79]

And in turn, they personally don't care.

What I find almost disturbing is fans like you wanting to watch OTHER PEOPLE'S alma maters play each other and help increase THEIR RATINGS AND RICHES and enlarge the gap between them and YOUR SCHOOL. Truly fans of teams being left out should boycott this super league concept and hope it fails.

 

[Pitt79]

I think what you could see happening is the Big Ten and SEC coming together, trimming some of their ‘small school fat’ (e.g., Northwestern, Vanderbilt) and then adding a few other fanbases to have the entire country covered. Add a few ACC schools (Clemson/FSU/Miami/UNC), and then schools like Colorado, Arizona State, Kansas, and either of the Virginia schools. That’d get them to around 32-36 which I think would be enough to do their own thing and split off.

It’s unfortunate, but I’ve seen it playing out this way for years now. I hope we can return to traditionalism/regionalism at some point because without it, CFB doesn’t have the same character it once did.

so, the fans of the of the 100 schools left out are supposed to pick one of the 32-36 that are in to follow, and forget their lifelong alma mater or local teams?

 

[HailToPitt725]

so, the fans of the of the 100 schools left out are supposed to pick one of the 32-36 that are in to follow, and forget their lifelong alma mater or local teams?

I think it’ll be more like following your lifelong alma mater that is an G5/FCS school. They’ll still play and have a passionate fan base behind them, but they won’t be competing on the highest level, unfortunately.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

That might be what you want. But that is not what is going to happen. ESPN or Fox or NBC or CBS or whoever is televising wants Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, OSU, PSU, ND, USC, Texas to make the playoffs. You damn well bet they will do everything they can to prevent a Villanova from winning it all, or Butler making the final game or George Mason making the Final 4.

While this will be more of a true playoff, it is still going to be largely a blueblood invitational.

Also, the national college football media doesn't help matters much. Reporters like Mandel, Forde, Auerbach, Feldman are glorified fanboys/girls. They sound like kids awaiting Christmas morning talking about the upcoming week zero games rather than write anything critical about the state of college football. Alabama-Georgia for a 3rd rematch in a season in the championship for the 5th year in a row? Sure bring it on! We love it, nothing wrong with a system that produces that year in and year out.

 

[pafootballguy]

I am not sure anything really changes because the vast majority of FBS college football programs are not really competing for a national championship and their fans are still watching.

Does viewership require the illusion that you have a chance to eventually compete for a national championship?

 

[Pitt79]

I think it’ll be more like following your lifelong alma mater that is an G5/FCS school. They’ll still play and have a passionate fan base behind them, but they won’t be competing on the highest level, unfortunately.

That's where I'm at, a run in the FCS playoffs sounds like fun. I'll be watching that instead of the SEC/B1G tournament.

 

[topdecktiger]

I think what you could see happening is the Big Ten and SEC coming together, trimming some of their ‘small school fat’ (e.g., Northwestern, Vanderbilt) and then adding a few other fanbases to have the entire country covered. Add a few ACC schools (Clemson/FSU/Miami/UNC), and then schools like Colorado, Arizona State, Kansas, and either of the Virginia schools. That’d get them to around 32-36 which I think would be enough to do their own thing and split off.

It’s unfortunate, but I’ve seen it playing out this way for years now. I hope we can return to traditionalism/regionalism at some point because without it, CFB doesn’t have the same character it once did.

It still wouldn't be enough. As another poster stated, there isn't a market for minor leagues. Even minor leagues in baseball don't have billion dollar TV contracts, much less football or basketball.

College football is unique in that you have built in fan bases due to alumni. However, it's a group of fanbases cobbled together. It's not like the NFL, where people watch just because it's the NFL. For example, Georgia fans don't care anything about Oregon, so far as it goes. Georgia only have tangential interest because their school competes at the same level as Oregon.

If you do away with 1/2 or 2/3 of the schools by relegating them to a lower classification, those fans won't have interest in the Big Ten/SEC league. For example, if Clemson gets left out, Clemson fans won't start rooting for South Carolina. They will just stop watching. I know you think it won't matter if Oregon St., Baylor, etc. fans aren't included, but it will. The numbers just don't add up.