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Round 1 Game 5: Fsgolfdr vs. Cougarclaws

Fsgolfdr vs. Cougarclas

  • Fsgolfdr

    Votes: 22 55.0%

  • Cougarclaws

    Votes: 18 45.0%
  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
S

Ski11585

Board of Trustee
Gold Member
Oct 25, 2008
26,642
29,764
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@Fsgolfdr
Pg Ronald Ramon 8.8 ppg 51.1 shooting % 45.1 from 3. 87% FT 2.2 assists 1.8 rebounds
SG Jason Mathews. 19.1 ppg .46.0 shooting %. 45.7 from 3. 89% FT 2.1 assists. 2.1 rebounds
SF. JJ Moore. 8.0 ppg. 52.4 shooting %. 32.9 from 3. 81.5 FT 3.0 rebounds
PF Mike Young. 19.5 ppg. 49.2 shooting %. 34.1 from 3. 77% FT 2.7 assists. 6.3 rebounds
C. Gary McGhee. 6.9 ppg.56.7 shooting %. 7.7 rebounds 1.3 blocks
6th man Trent Johnson 8.5ppg 49.2 shooting %. 70.8 FT 6.6 rebounds

VS.

@CougarClaws
PG/SG Carl Black Magic Krauser: 6'2" 200 2001-2005
16.0ppg 5.9apg 4.8rpg 1.8spg 39.4%/3
4.4 Win Shares Statistically best Pitt PG, would kill for a win-NYC Tough!
https://pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/carl-krauser/523

SG Kellii The Disruptor Taylor: 6'1" 180 1995-2000
9.6ppg 3.2spg 2.6rpg 2.2apg 2.2 defensive win shares, a disruptive defensive dynamo

PF/SF Chad The Athlete Varga: 6'6 210 1994-1997
12.5ppg 6.3rpg 36.1%/3
A ridiculous athlete - won Dapper Dan True Grit Award
https://www.chadvarga.com/booking/basketball-highlights/

SF/PF Gilbert Greyhound Brown: 6'6" 215 2007-2011
11.3ppg 4.4rpg 2.7apg 41.3%/3 4.4 win shares & another stellar athlete that did the little things that win games.
https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/pittsburgh-gilbert-brown?mediatype=photography&page=4&phrase=pittsburgh gilbert brown&sort=mostpopular

C/PF Talib Tough Guy Zanna: 6'9" 230 2006-2011
13.0ppg 8.6rpg 59% shooter 5.4WS No nonsense winner that defined development under Dixon
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/63349304/talib-zanna-left-nigeria-to-play-basketball-for-pitt

6th Man PF/C Chip The Missing Link Watkins: 6'7" 235lbs 1981-1985
6.4ppg 5.7rpg 1.1spg His development into a strong defender in Big East season one allowed for amazing early upsets of powerhouses St. Johns & Georgetown during their heyday.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/0...18-points-and-Chip-Watkins-had/3469446274000/
 
My take in this matchup is that while Carl Krauser was a great player and will get his points no matter whose guarding him my backcourt of Ronald Ramon and Jason Mathews , which would be the best shooting back court in Pitt bb history gives me an advantage in the backcourt against CK and KT . This backcourt opens up the entire floor making double teaming anyone very difficult . At the forward position putting Michael Young next to a big strong center like Gary McGhee makes him virtually unstoppable on offense and allowing him to defend the 4 instead of 5 makes my interior defense and rebounding pretty tough . My weakest position on the floor in sf , but putting JJ Moore next to Young and McGhee combined with the outside shooting of my backcourt will allow JJs athleticism to take over allowing him to slash to the basket . At center I think Gary McGhee ( the senior yr version ) would push Zanna all over the floor . Gary’s value to this team is that he’s the defensive glue , space eater , screen setter and tough rebounder that the current Panthers sorely miss . Plus he shoots over 50% from the floor . Defensively subbing Trent Johnson for JJ toughens my defense , screening and rebounding .
One hidden advantage this team has besides being the best shooting team in Pitt bb history from 3 & 2 pt range is that they would be the best FT shooting team . No way of coming back against this team down the stretch by fouling . JJ and MY would be discouraged from putting up anything from 3 unless wide open with JM and RR there’s no reason for them to shoot from 3 .
Think my team takes it ! ( high scoring game )
 
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Ski11585 said:
@Fsgolfdr
Pg Ronald Ramon 8.8 ppg 51.1 shooting % 45.1 from 3. 87% FT 2.2 assists 1.8 rebounds
SG Jason Mathews. 19.1 ppg .46.0 shooting %. 45.7 from 3. 89% FT 2.1 assists. 2.1 rebounds
SF. JJ Moore. 8.0 ppg. 52.4 shooting %. 32.9 from 3. 81.5 FT 3.0 rebounds
PF Mike Young. 19.5 ppg. 49.2 shooting %. 34.1 from 3. 77% FT 2.7 assists. 6.3 rebounds
C. Gary McGhee. 6.9 ppg.56.7 shooting %. 7.7 rebounds 1.3 blocks
6th man Trent Johnson 8.5ppg 49.2 shooting %. 70.8 FT 6.6 rebounds

VS.

@CougarClaws
PG/SG Carl Black Magic Krauser: 6'2" 200 2001-2005
16.0ppg 5.9apg 4.8rpg 1.8spg 39.4%/3
4.4 Win Shares Statistically best Pitt PG, would kill for a win-NYC Tough!
https://pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/carl-krauser/523

SG Kellii The Disruptor Taylor: 6'1" 180 1995-2000
9.6ppg 3.2spg 2.6rpg 2.2apg 2.2 defensive win shares, a disruptive defensive dynamo

PF/SF Chad The Athlete Varga: 6'6 210 1994-1997
12.5ppg 6.3rpg 36.1%/3
A ridiculous athlete - won Dapper Dan True Grit Award
https://www.chadvarga.com/booking/basketball-highlights/

SF/PF Gilbert Greyhound Brown: 6'6" 215 2007-2011
11.3ppg 4.4rpg 2.7apg 41.3%/3 4.4 win shares & another stellar athlete that did the little things that win games.
https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/pittsburgh-gilbert-brown?mediatype=photography&page=4&phrase=pittsburgh gilbert brown&sort=mostpopular

C/PF Talib Tough Guy Zanna: 6'9" 230 2006-2011
13.0ppg 8.6rpg 59% shooter 5.4WS No nonsense winner that defined development under Dixon
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/63349304/talib-zanna-left-nigeria-to-play-basketball-for-pitt

6th Man PF/C Chip The Missing Link Watkins: 6'7" 235lbs 1981-1985
6.4ppg 5.7rpg 1.1spg His development into a strong defender in Big East season one allowed for amazing early upsets of powerhouses St. Johns & Georgetown during their heyday.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/0...18-points-and-Chip-Watkins-had/3469446274000/
Click to expand...
Krauser one of my favorite Pitt Players ever, but

Really, really like the composition of his opposing team
 
Man, I can't believe that I'm voting against Krauser who is one of my all time favorites here but it's tough to argue with the shooting on fsgolfdr's squad.
 
I am struck by the individual matchups at Guard. Fsgolfdr has no playmakers on the perimeter - neither Ramon nor Mathews can create their own shot, or have the foot speed to keep up with Krauser & Taylor on defense.

While I also like the forward matchups with my balanced group of defensively strong secondary scorers, the play at Guard would be telling. Carl & Kellii would dominate defensively, while executing their games offensively IMO.

I also love the McGee/Zanna matchup, because Talib can cover any Fsgolfdr player he would have to switch up on during those awesome McGee picks. Gary's 2nd biggest strength, one that might conceivably help make up for his Guard's lack of foot speed, is somewhat negated.

Or I could single up the defensive stalwart Zanna against Young on defense and contain him. Both of my starting forwards are long explosive leapers with quick feet that played a lot of 4. They can switch off effectively during McGee's picks, while being comfortable enough playing inside to keep Gary from getting out of hand with his limited offensive game.

I really lucked out on the draw this round. These matchups, almost across the board, are favorable IMO. All my guys are strong to brilliant defensively, with balanced scoring on both the perimeter and inside. But I match up great against Fsgolfdr's team in particular.

It's kinda a shame I was 3hrs late to the game because I don't do the sticky threads. Let my opponent get off to a quick start on me. Consider changing your vote once you get through my analysis.
 
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Black Magic Krauser vs. Ronald Ramon:
Carl would destroy this matchup. Ramon can't create his own shot, and has no creative teammates to help him. Krauser was so strong defending the perimeter, and would be blowing by the slow footed Ramon on the way to the hoop at will, with great finishers like Zanna, Brown, & Vargas dunking off dishes.
 
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The Disruptor Taylor vs. Mathews:
Clearly JM is the better player here, however Taylor would make his life miserable on man D. Mathews did not create his own shots, or do anything but shoot 3's well, and there is nobody to get him the ball in good shooting spots. Count on Kellii, one of Pitt's best defensive guards, to contain Jason Mathews.
 
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Greyhound Brown vs. JJ Moore:
Another big mismatch here. Gilbert's complete game as a Sr. (11.3ppg 4.4rpg 2.7apg 41.3%/3 4.4 win shares) crushes Moore's 8.0 ppg 3.0rpg 52.4% shooting 32.9%/ 3. 81.5 FT 3.0rpg. This matchup helps makes my team go as Brown will play a secondary creators roll against Moore, and was deadly from 3.
 
Talib Zanna vs. Mike Young:
What a battle this matchup would be! Again - I clearly win this one via win shares - Zanna @ 5.4, and Young @ 4.3. Zanna was such a tough versatile winner, had 2.1 defensive win shares alone that season, and could smother anybody. Defensively he would contain that cancer Young, who only ever thought about himself. Talib would also do his thing offensively, and was with 3.3 offensive win shares - one of the most effective and efficient inside scorers to play at Pitt.
 
CougarClaws said:
Black Magic Krauser vs. Ronald Ramon:
Carl would destroy this matchup. Ramon can't create his own shot, and has no creative teammates to help him. Krauser was so strong defending the perimeter, and would be blowing by Ramon on the way to the hoop at will, with great finishers like Zanna, Brown, & Vargas dunking off dishes.
Click to expand...
That’s why I would playing a zone !
 
Fsgolfdr said:
That’s why I would playing a zone !
Click to expand...

You don't have the length or quickness at Guard to play zone against Team Murder Hornets. Krauser (39.4%), Brown (41.4%), & Vargas (36.1%) would rain 3's down on you. And Black Magic would STILL get in the lane against you're small, slow footed guards at the top of the key.

Not to mention that Zanna, Brown, & Vargas were all excellent at playing the high post, or crashing from the corners. I crush you in zone!
 
CougarClaws said:
Talib Zanna vs. Mike Young:
What a battle this matchup would be! Again - I clearly win this one via win shares - Zanna @ 5.4, and Young @ 4.3. Zanna was such a tough versatile winner, had 2.1 defensive win shares alone that season, and could smother anybody. Defensively he would contain that loser Young, who only ever thought about himself. Talib would also do his thing offensively, and was with 3.3 offensive win shares - one of the most effective and efficient inside scorers to play at Pitt.
Click to expand...
While I always liked Zanna there’s no comparing their offensive abilities . Having GMcGhee and Chad Johnson to set picks and push Zanna around MY would score easily inside the 3 pt arc . Young always wanted to play forward and not center so I’d have a happy camper . If you put your center on MY then McGhee will overwhelm Varga with brute strength . While his offense wasn’t needed he shot over 56% from the floor .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
While I always liked Zanna there’s no comparing their offensive abilities . Having GMcGhee and Chad Johnson to set picks and push Zanna around MY would score easily inside the 3 pt arc . Young always wanted to play forward and not center so I’d have a happy camper . If you put your center on MY then McGhee will overwhelm Varga with brute strength . While his offense wasn’t needed he shot over 56% from the floor .
Click to expand...

Sure thing bro - Young is a better VOLUME SCORER for sure, and he shot 45% from the floor. There's no way Young shoots above 40% against one of the best 4/5 defenders ever to play at Pitt. I mean - he's the main reason my Team is called Murder Hornets! Talib was just so tough & agile for a Big - and did ALL the little things to win games that your poor excuse for a Panther never could be bothered with....

And on top of that - Zanna was good for an incredibly efficient 13ppg shooting 59% from the floor! Young will struggle with containing Talib, who even almost out winshared Young on offense @ 3.3 vs 3.5!
 
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CougarClaws said:
You don't have the length or quickness at Guard to play zone against Team Murder Hornets. Krauser (39.4%), Brown (41.4%), & Vargas (36.1%) would rain 3's down on you. And Black Magic would STILL get in the lane against you're small, slow footed guards at the top of the key.

Not to mention that Zanna, Brown, & Vargas were all excellent at playing the high post, or crashing from the corners. I crush you in zone!
Click to expand...
CK will always get his points and at times and at times that was the problem with his play . I will concede him his points and focus on stopping the rest of your squad . There’s a reason why he never played in the NBA with all that talent . Remember Mathews shot close to 50% from 3 and Ramon wasn’t far behind . Play tough on the perimeter against my guards and MY will kill you inside . JJ and Chad will also hurt you . Put Zanna on Young I still win that battle and you’ll watch McGhee score easily against a 6’6” Varga who probably wasn’t 6’6” .
Your boys crashing the boards will bounce off my MAN Gary McGhee . MY played D against the other teams 5 most of his career put him beside a bull he’d shine inside rebounding and blocking shots . Chad Johnson , my 6th man , was stronger and better rebounder than either of your forwards .
 
Chad Vargas vs. Gary McGee:
So I am guessing many of you are unfamiliar with Chad Vargas' game. He was a strong explosive 6'6" 4 that played in the 90's, could jump out of the building, and did much of his damage around the basket to the tune of 12.5ppg & 6.3rpg. Won the Tru Grit Dapper Dan Award, and was a tough son of a gun that somehow made it out of a life in the ghetto with drug addicted parents. I highly recommend you check out the link in his bio above.

He was a "can do" tough guy, who for sure could hold his own against Gary defensively, and would drive him nuts if matched up offensively. Out of fairness though - I will consider this matchup a push.
 
CougarClaws said:
Sure thing bro - Young is a better VOLUME SCORER for sure, and he shot 45% from the floor. There's no way Young shoots above 40% against one of the best 4/5 defenders ever to play at Pitt. I mean - he's the main reason my Team is called the Murder Hornets! Talib was just so tough & agile for a Big - and did ALL the little things to win games that your poor excuse for a Panther never could be bothered with....

And on top of that - Zanna was good for an incredibly efficient 13ppg while shooting 59%. Young will struggle with containing Talib, who even almost out winshared Young on offense @ 3.3 vs 3.5!
Click to expand...
Zanna would struggle inside against McGhees strength and defensively MY as a senior was quick enough and tall enough to guard Zanna .
MY wouldn’t be the first player to not being happy playing out of position at Pitt . Having him play a position that he wanted to play would set him free to rein pts down on your undermanned squad !
 
Fsgolfdr said:
Zanna would struggle inside against McGhees strength and defensively MY as a senior was quick enough and tall enough to guard Zanna .
MY wouldn’t be the first player to not being happy playing out of position at Pitt . Having him play a position that he wanted to play would set him free to rein pts down on your undermanned squad !
Click to expand...

Name a player Zanna struggled against defensively his Sr season. He'd certainly keep the offensively limited Gary McGee in check. But I think he's better used driving down Young's offensive efficiency below 40%, the gold standard for real Pitt teams. I'm sure someone would remind Young of that during halftime. Not that it would slow his trigger down, especially with his Guards unable to get free from my Murder Hornets perimeter defense.
 
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MarshallGoldberg said:
I like the black magick team to win with a zone press. Less skilled team by a bit but super athletic.
Click to expand...
I have 4 guys who can break the press . I’ll never forget watching Michael Young playing up at Montour which was street ball and how well he handled the ball . JJ at 6’ 7” had a decent enough handle to break a press also . My guards were both smart shifty players who didn’t turn the ball over . Press us and Young and JJ will kill you and foul anyone on my team and watch them shoot over 80% as a team .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
I have 4 guys who can break the press . I’ll never forget watching Michael Young playing up at Montour which was street ball and how well he handled the ball . JJ at 6’ 7” had a decent enough handle to break a press also . My guards were both smart shifty players who didn’t turn the ball over . Press us and Young and JJ will kill you and foul anyone on my team and watch them shoot over 80% as a team .
Click to expand...

I don't need to press you. My team is possibly the best in this Tournament at Man defense. Murder Hornets will lock you up.
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
I liked Ramon but he made nervous when he dribbled. I could see a lot of pressure applied against your slower, bigger team.
Click to expand...

In your face man defense will completely disrupt Fsgolfdr's Guard play. Kellii Taylor & Carl Krauser are the shiznit defensively.
 
CougarClaws said:
Name a player Zanna struggled against defensively his Sr season. He'd certainly keep the offensively limited Gary McGee in check. But I think he's better used driving down Young's offensive efficiency below 40%, the gold standard for real Pitt teams. I'm sure someone would remind Young of that during halftime. Not that it would slow his trigger down, especially with his Guards unable to get free from my Murder Hornets defense.
Click to expand...
Can Zanna guard both Young and McGhee ? You may not like MY , but he was a truly gifted ball player and averaged close to 20 pts playing out of position . Zanna would have his hands full . After running into a few screens by GM Zanna might know where he’s at !
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
I liked Ramon but he made nervous when he dribbled. I could see a lot of pressure applied against your slower, bigger team.
Click to expand...

I might switch up the guards actually. Kellii Taylor averaged 3.2 steals a game, and would completely disrupt Ramon who had a weak handle. Yes this would likely be an early game adjustment on my part, as Krauser would lock down Mathews as well. I have the classic Pitt winning formula of defense, toughness, & all the little things. Something several of my opponents players struggle with in turn. I am shocked at how far behind I still am....
 
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Fsgolfdr said:
Can Zanna guard both Young and McGhee ? You may not like MY , but he was a truly gifted ball player and averaged close to 20 pts playing out of position . Zanna would have his hands full . After running into a few screens by GM Zanna might know where he’s at !
Click to expand...

He doesn't need to. Inside defense is a specialty of the Murder Hornets, we can bring in Chip Watkins at the 4 or the 5. The "Missing Link" was a standout inside defender during the glory years of the Big East. Pitts early upsets against possibly the best ever St. Johns & Georgetown teams never happen without him.

We have a lot of inside flexibility if Vargas can't handle McGee.

Have go go back to work now, will check back this evening.
 
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CougarClaws said:
Chad Vargas vs. Gary McGee:
So I am guessing many of you are unfamiliar with Chad Vargas' game. He was a strong explosive 6'6" 4 that played in the 90's, could jump out of the building, and did much of his damage around the basket to the tune of 12.5ppg & 6.3rpg. Won the Tru Grit Dapper Dan Award, and was a tough son of a gun that somehow made it out of a life in the ghetto with drug addicted parents. I highly recommend you check out the link in his bio above.

He was a "can do" tough guy, who for sure could hold his own against Gary defensively, and would drive him nuts if matched up offensively. Out of fairness though - I will consider this matchup a push.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t , no way he can handle a 6’9” man like McGhee . Varga didn’t play the 5 for a reason . Varga and Chad Johnson might be a push , but he’s my 6th man .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
I wouldn’t , no way he can handle a 6’9” man like McGhee . Varga didn’t play the 5 for a reason . Varga and Chad Johnson might be a push , but he’s my 6th man .
Click to expand...

Watkins "handled" Patrick Ewing just fine after he fouled out our C. McGee won't be much of a problem for him.
 
CougarClaws said:
He doesn't need to. Inside defense is a specialty of the Murder Hornets, we can bring in Chip Watkins at the 4 or the 5. The "Missing Link" was a standout inside defender during the glory years of the Big East. Pitts early upsets against possibly the best ever St. Johns & Georgetown teams never happen without him.

We have a lot of inside flexibility if Vargas can't handle McGee.

Have go go back to work now, will check back this evening.
Click to expand...
Your not going to handle McGhee with a forward and once again Chad Johnson my 6th man was better .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
Your not going to handle McGhee with a forward and once again Chad Johnson my 6th man was better .
Click to expand...

Chad Johnson is mos def a nice 6th man. Watkins fits my team's needs better in our matchup though.
 
CougarClaws said:
Watkins "handled" Patrick Ewing just fine after he fouled out our C. McGee won't be much of a problem for him.
Click to expand...
LoL ! There was never a Pitt player that “handled “ Ewing ! Nor was there ever an NBA player that “handled “
Ewing .
 
Fsgolfdr said:
LoL ! There was never a Pitt player that “handled “ Ewing ! Nor was there ever an NBA player that “handled “
Ewing .
Click to expand...
Ewing was often a secondary scorer in college. Saw him play in person twice.
 
I'm impressed Fsgolfdr - you have doubled me up on points so far. I guess our fanbase no longer values toughness, defense, & team fit. Your one dimensional shooters seem to be carrying the day.

Congrats.
 
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Really love the job Cougarclaws and Fsgolfdr are doing defending there teams. Elite Eight quality debate right here.
 
SoufOaklin4Life said:
Krauser snd Kelli lock down those spot up shooters easily though-
Fast break city off the streals
Click to expand...

And with athletes at every position - my team was born to run. Run early and often off all the turnovers they will force a team without a natural ball handler or creator into. Sure I'm biased - but this game seams like such a mismatch in my favor if you really look at it.
 
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CougarClaws said:
And with athletes at every position - my team was born to run. Run early and often off all the turnovers they will force a team without a natural ball handler or creator into. Sure I'm biased - but this game seams like such a mismatch in my favor if you really look at it.
Click to expand...
Mismatch you’ve got to be kidding , your begging people to vote for you ! Get real , CK would run and gun and would exclude his teammates in an uptempo game . He was X and Trey before them , but he was a better player than either of them . If he ever learned to be a pg he’d have played yrs in the NBA . My team would shoot yours into submission in an uptempo game .
 
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