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Samson George, Efretuei and roster space

gary2

Athletic Director
Jul 21, 2001
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Looked at short videos(only short and maybe old) on both players. I would take Samson George. Even though he was an Iona commit, he looks like someone we could use. He seems to have very good strength, quickness and athletic ability and great instincts. The only disclaimer: I don't know the level of competition he played against at First Love. Unless it was ridiculously poor, Pitt should offer.

The Efretuei kid did not look the part to me. He seems to lack strength and quickness.

I believe there is a 6-10 Russian (Lenny Kulokovskiy) at about Efreteui's skill level that played on the team that Peace did.

Should George sign with Pitt, we would have 12 players including 3 seniors. I would leave the last scholarship open in order to have 4 to give in 2018. I would replace Milligan but only with a grad transfer point guard. If someone terrific became available late (someone better than any likely Pitt 2018 recruit), I would decide to use the open scholarship.

Sign George and we are (more or less) set for 2017-2018.
 
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Looked at short videos on both players. I would take Samson George. Even though he was an Iona commit, he looks like someone we could use. The only disclaimer: I don't know the level of competition he played against at First Love. Unless it was ridiculously poor, Pitt should offer.

The Efretuei kid did not look the part to me. He seems to lack strength and quickness.

Should George sign with Pitt, we would have 12 players including 3 seniors. I would leave the last scholarship open in order to have 4 to give in 2018. I would replace Milligan but only with a grad transfer point guard. If someone terrific became available late (someone better than any likely Pitt 2018 recruit), I would decide to use the open scholarship.

Sign George and we are (more or less) set for 2017-2018.
We have already given one for 2018. As it stands right now by my count we will have 9 players with ships this year if we don't sign anyone else. 3 of those guys would be leaving so 6 more ships would be available for 2018. We could take a couple more players and still have 4 ships to give out in 2018 and that doesn't count anyone who decides to transfer after this year. We need a minimum of a 5 man class in 2018. I think my math is right on this.
 
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We have already given one for 2018. As it stands right now by my count we will have 9 players with ships this year if we don't sign anyone else. 3 of those guys would be leaving so 6 more ships would be available for 2018. We could take a couple more players and still have 4 ships to give out in 2018 and that doesn't count anyone who decides to transfer after this year. We need a minimum of a 5 man class in 2018. I think my math is right on this.

I have 11 players with scholarships for this year. (Ellison counts)

Peace FR
Luther SR
Frame JR
Boykins SR
Carr FR

Brown FR
Open (George FR ???)
Stevenson FR
K.Davis FR
Stewart FR

Open
Ellison RS-TRF- 2 years to play
Milligan SR

Currently, by my count - 3 SRS and 2 open (Golden verbal for 2018)
 
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If George were good enough for Iona, he's certainly good enough for what our roster looks like at this point. I watched Jones start for two years here, he was an Iona type pf recruit IMO. By the way, I grew up 10 minutes from Iona, and saw many Bball games there. If Jones could start for two years here (granted our off guards have best mediocre at best) then my sense is we have guards of his quality or better for 2017. So based on that, I can see us taking George at this point in time. To me, the key is getting a much, much stronger class for 2018. It seems to me that Stallings is looking to get what he can for 2017, and is hopefully looking to sign 4 star type recruits for 2018.
 
I want Pitt to win more than most... after saying that ... it seems Stallings is fighting for his job. As he should be.

No more free passes.
 
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I have 11 players with scholarships for this year. (Ellison counts)

Peace FR
Luther SR
Frame JR
Boykins SR
Carr FR

Brown FR
Open (George FR ???)
Stevenson FR
K.Davis FR
Stewart FR

Open
Ellison RS-TRF- 2 years to play
Milligan SR

Currently, by my count - 3 SRS and 2 open (Golden verbal for 2018)
Correct. Forgot about Ellison.
 
If George were good enough for Iona, he's certainly good enough for what our roster looks like at this point. I watched Jones start for two years here, he was an Iona type pf recruit IMO. By the way, I grew up 10 minutes from Iona, and saw many Bball games there. If Jones could start for two years here (granted our off guards have best mediocre at best) then my sense is we have guards of his quality or better for 2017. So based on that, I can see us taking George at this point in time. To me, the key is getting a much, much stronger class for 2018. It seems to me that Stallings is looking to get what he can for 2017, and is hopefully looking to sign 4 star type recruits for 2018.

I do not feel the we should take George. I believe he is of the level of ability that seemed to get us where we are now.
 
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I have 11 players with scholarships for this year. (Ellison counts)

Peace FR
Luther SR
Frame JR
Boykins SR
Carr FR

Brown FR
Open (George FR ???)
Stevenson FR
K.Davis FR
Stewart FR

Open
Ellison RS-TRF- 2 years to play
Milligan SR

Currently, by my count - 3 SRS and 2 open (Golden verbal for 2018)

Gary, while we seem to agree on Efreteui, I don't agree that we should take George. You have stated for several months that our roster needs a significant upgrade in talent. That point basically cannot be disagreed with. But I do not believe George is the needed kind of upgrade. I believe it is much of the same kind of player who got us were we are now.

I would hang onto the scholarship and work for better recruits this fall.
 
He certainly is like the "level of ability that seemed to get us where we are now." However that "level" does not even have a full compliment of players for 2017. If there were other options for 2017 that would be great, but there aren't any other options for Stallings at this point. I believe
Stallings has to concentrate on 2018 with legitimate 4 star type recruits, but for now he needs
players to at least have a program.
 
He certainly is like the "level of ability that seemed to get us where we are now." However that "level" does not even have a full compliment of players for 2017. If there were other options for 2017 that would be great, but there aren't any other options for Stallings at this point. I believe
Stallings has to concentrate on 2018 with legitimate 4 star type recruits, but for now he needs
players to at least have a program.

Your point is well taken, but I'm almost to the point that I'd just take my lumps with what we have going into this season. The season is going to be very, very bad, but I don't think George does a single thing to change it. My mind is set on a very good class for 2018 (legitimate 4 star recruits -- someone like Brandon Johns would be tremendous).

I'd just rather go into this fall knowing that we need to recruit 5 quality players -- at least 2 higher than the level of Golden -- instead of taking just four and/or thinking about who we might have to jettison.

But that's me. Perhaps it's because I'm just not comfortable with the idea of planning to jettison players. Perhaps that opinion is somewhat behind the times.
 
Your point is well taken, but I'm almost to the point that I'd just take my lumps with what we have going into this season. The season is going to be very, very bad, but I don't think George does a single thing to change it. My mind is set on a very good class for 2018 (legitimate 4 star recruits -- someone like Brandon Johns would be tremendous).

I'd just rather go into this fall knowing that we need to recruit 5 quality players -- at least 2 higher than the level of Golden -- instead of taking just four and/or thinking about who we might have to jettison.

But that's me. Perhaps it's because I'm just not comfortable with the idea of planning to jettison players. Perhaps that opinion is somewhat behind the times.

I do agree with you, but given the roster turnover from year to year, I'm starting to think there really is little harm.

If George can't get it done, Stallings will just let him go. So..take the lottery tickets, see if anything sticks. I think Kam Davis is a little bit of the same thing. Carr/Stewart/Sham/Brown/Peace...thats the "fab 5" true frosh of this class. If Davis or George sticks..great. If not, we replace them next year. That's the reality.

I'm just amazed we couldn't find a grad transfer Big to play 20 mpg.
 
Gary, while we seem to agree on Efreteui, I don't agree that we should take George. You have stated for several months that our roster needs a significant upgrade in talent. That point basically cannot be disagreed with. But I do not believe George is the needed kind of upgrade. I believe it is much of the same kind of player who got us were we are now.

I would hang onto the scholarship and work for better recruits this fall.
I know this is silly. Before looking at his video, I definitely would not have wanted George.

In his video, he is a relentless rebounder. He outworks everyone for position. Every time he gets a hand on a ball he secures it. He seems to sense where the ball is going. He scores through contact. He lives in the paint. He is definitely not the same kind of player we have been watching recently.



If he was not playing against Lilliputians, I want a kid with his desire and his intensity on my team.
 
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I know this is silly. Before looking at his video, I definitely would not have wanted George.

In his video, he is a relentless rebounder. He outworks everyone for position. Every time he gets a hand on a ball he secures it. He seems to sense where the ball is going. He scores through contact. He lives in the paint. He is definitely not the same kind of player we have been watching recently.

If he was not playing against Lilliputians, I want a kid with his desire and his intensity on my team.

Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps there is more there than I am thinking there is. But even if so (and not discounting your assessment of desire and intensity), the top side that I would see is a decent ACC role player type.

In itself, this isn't a bad thing. You do need players like this on your team. But I just see so few players on our roster who could even project as solid ACC starters (top half of the league starter type of player) after the 17-18 season. I see Carr as that kind of player, maybe Frame as a senior, and hopefully Golden in a couple of years. (Obviously I'm not quite as high on Stewart as some.)
 
I do agree with you, but given the roster turnover from year to year, I'm starting to think there really is little harm.

If George can't get it done, Stallings will just let him go. So..take the lottery tickets, see if anything sticks. I think Kam Davis is a little bit of the same thing. Carr/Stewart/Sham/Brown/Peace...thats the "fab 5" true frosh of this class. If Davis or George sticks..great. If not, we replace them next year. That's the reality.

I'm just amazed we couldn't find a grad transfer Big to play 20 mpg.

I understand your point and probably need to get more on board with the idea that if players aren't what you want, let them go.

Where I'm concerned is that I'm not sold there are many definitive "keepers" on the team right now. You mentioned a "Fab 5." and I'm totally sold on Carr, and think he can be a legit ACC starter. I'm not as high on Stewart, but think he certainly fits just fine, even if eventually a 6th or 7th man. I hope Sham and Brown are in about the same place, but I'm not highly confident. I have more serious concerns about Peace and Davis.
 
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The grad transfers and Juco's... I'm not concerned with them. They'll be gone soon enough. The frosh recruits will be here after this year (probably).
The 2018 and future recruits are the key to our future success. If the
Georges's of the world don't cut it, no biggie...they'll become backups. If for some unforeseen reason they out perform expectations, all the better.
These last few recruits, George for instance, can be great practice and
bench players assuming that Stallings successfully recruits over them
(four star types). The future is in the 2018, 19, 20 classes. These 2017
recruits only fill out this year's roster...Stallings has no other choice.
 
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If they fill the last two with underclassmen it's not a problem for ships next year. One or two won't be around anyway, so they'll have 4 or 5 ships available. It's just the way it ends up. Go back and look at the last 10 classes.
 
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He seems to be that guy whose in the right place at the right time . Worth an open scholarship .
I know this is silly. Before looking at his video, I definitely would not have wanted George.

In his video, he is a relentless rebounder. He outworks everyone for position. Every time he gets a hand on a ball he secures it. He seems to sense where the ball is going. He scores through contact. He lives in the paint. He is definitely not the same kind of player we have been watching recently.



If he was not playing against Lilliputians, I want a kid with his desire and his intensity on my team.
 
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Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps there is more there than I am thinking there is. But even if so (and not discounting your assessment of desire and intensity), the top side that I would see is a decent ACC role player type.

In itself, this isn't a bad thing. You do need players like this on your team. But I just see so few players on our roster who could even project as solid ACC starters (top half of the league starter type of player) after the 17-18 season. I see Carr as that kind of player, maybe Frame as a senior, and hopefully Golden in a couple of years. (Obviously I'm not quite as high on Stewart as some.)
He's not Kevin Durant but he is not a stiff either. Looks to have decent upside in that he moves well and seems to play with motivation. I wouldn't hate it if we take him. He could turn out to be a good addition a year or two from now. But I do agree that I would prefer to have 4 more ships available besides Golden next year.
 
He's not Kevin Durant but he is not a stiff either. Looks to have decent upside in that he moves well and seems to play with motivation. I wouldn't hate it if we take him. He could turn out to be a good addition a year or two from now. But I do agree that I would prefer to have 4 more ships available besides Golden next year.

Milligan, Luther, and Boykin all leave, along with the walk on who is now
on scholarship. Not to be funny, but with Stalling's record of defections,
my guess is they'll be one or maybe a few more. The number of
scholarships in 2018 is not the problem. Regardless whether it's
4, or 5 additions next year, we will still be extremely young, actually
younger than this coming season because losing three to graduation
will leave us with predominantly a sophomore and freshman make up.
Our overall class balance will be out of wack since only Ellison and Frame
will be upperclassmen.

This may look bad, but realistically is it any worse than if Wilson, Nix,
Manigault and Kithcart stayed? The only real loss was Johnson.
The one bight light in all of this is by 2018 these will all be Stallings'
guys, and hopefully they'll buy into what he's selling.
 
He's not Kevin Durant but he is not a stiff either. Looks to have decent upside in that he moves well and seems to play with motivation. I wouldn't hate it if we take him. He could turn out to be a good addition a year or two from now. But I do agree that I would prefer to have 4 more ships available besides Golden next year.

I tend to agree - Fill all 13 and let natural selection take place - It s a cut throat business these days - Hopefully, some day soon, we can stabilize our roster and be beyond it.

I don't like it, but for the time being, we need to do what we have to do.
 
Maybe you take George then have George and Peace basically compete for a spot on the 2018-19 roster. Peace and even Kam Davis are 2 of the lowest-rated recruits to ever sign so maybe you take George, Peace, and Davis with the idea that 1 or 2 will be cut.

You certainly cant fill up the roster with all these mid-major recruits with little room for 18-19 so if you take George, 1 or 1 players will have to be cut after the season to make room for a 5-6 person 2018 class.
 
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Maybe you take George then have George and Peace basically compete for a spot on the 2018-19 roster. Peace and even Kam Davis are 2 of the lowest-rated recruits to ever sign so maybe you take George, Peace, and Davis with the idea that 1 or 2 will be cut.
Hopefully, our recruiting will be much better next year, then all 3 get cut if they don't show they fit. All 3 seem like huge reaches.
 
Milligan, Luther, and Boykin all leave, along with the walk on who is now
on scholarship. Not to be funny, but with Stalling's record of defections,
my guess is they'll be one or maybe a few more. The number of
scholarships in 2018 is not the problem. Regardless whether it's
4, or 5 additions next year, we will still be extremely young, actually
younger than this coming season because losing three to graduation
will leave us with predominantly a sophomore and freshman make up.
Our overall class balance will be out of wack since only Ellison and Frame
will be upperclassmen.

This may look bad, but realistically is it any worse than if Wilson, Nix,
Manigault and Kithcart stayed? The only real loss was Johnson.
The one bight light in all of this is by 2018 these will all be Stallings'
guys, and hopefully they'll buy into what he's selling.
What was his record with regards to transfers at Vanderbilt ? Some chastised him for not forcing kids out now people are doing the opposite . Kids move on for many different reasons , but mostly it's about PT . If you can play there's plenty of PT . The class balance will even out with attrition .
 
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He must bring in at least 1 more big, and should bring in 2. Fill the roster and let the competition weed out the players who are not good enough. Then bring in at least 4 guys in next year's class.
 
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He must bring in at least 1 more big, and should bring in 2. Fill the roster and let the competition weed out the players who are not good enough. Then bring in at least 4 guys in next year's class.

We're getting four in next year's class without "weeding out the players who are not good enough." Milligan, Luther, Boykin and the walk on scholarship (if he's still on the team) get us four automatically. I don't like the idea of getting rid of players by dumping them, but if they want to leave, we should help them land at another school. Others will maybe be happy with being a team member, riding the bench, and earning a Pitt degree rather than going to a lower level school. Either way, we're gonna lose a few and I see probably five recruits for 2018.
2018 is big for this program, and will help determine Stallings" future.
 
This may look bad, but realistically is it any worse than if Wilson, Nix,
Manigault and Kithcart stayed? The only real loss was Johnson.

There's a lot of effort in recruiting 11 new players in one season, many even after March, to only end up saying you broke even. I'd hope if KS could've put that volume of effort into only his top ~6 targets maybe he'd have more to show for it.
 
I do agree with you, but given the roster turnover from year to year, I'm starting to think there really is little harm.

If George can't get it done, Stallings will just let him go. So..take the lottery tickets, see if anything sticks. I think Kam Davis is a little bit of the same thing. Carr/Stewart/Sham/Brown/Peace...thats the "fab 5" true frosh of this class. If Davis or George sticks..great. If not, we replace them next year. That's the reality.

I'm just amazed we couldn't find a grad transfer Big to play 20 mpg.

I agree with all of this.
 
Looked at short videos(only short and maybe old) on both players. I would take Samson George. Even though he was an Iona commit, he looks like someone we could use. He seems to have very good strength, quickness and athletic ability and great instincts. The only disclaimer: I don't know the level of competition he played against at First Love. Unless it was ridiculously poor, Pitt should offer.

The Efretuei kid did not look the part to me. He seems to lack strength and quickness.

I believe there is a 6-10 Russian (Lenny Kulokovskiy) at about Efreteui's skill level that played on the team that Peace did.

Should George sign with Pitt, we would have 12 players including 3 seniors. I would leave the last scholarship open in order to have 4 to give in 2018. I would replace Milligan but only with a grad transfer point guard. If someone terrific became available late (someone better than any likely Pitt 2018 recruit), I would decide to use the open scholarship.

Sign George and we are (more or less) set for 2017-2018.
The Russian dude is a Spy.
 
There's a lot of effort in recruiting 11 new players in one season, many even after March, to only end up saying you broke even. I'd hope if KS could've put that volume of effort into only his top ~6 targets maybe he'd have more to show for it.
What makes you assume he didn't ?
 
What makes you assume he didn't ?

What makes me assume he didn't focus on signing only the best 6 guys? The fact that he had to sign 11.

That's not even mentioning what all of this diversion of effort means for his next class. I'd personally rather him invest more time into better recruits for the next year than trying to sign a Wilson clone, when he already had one on his roster.
 
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Looked at short videos(only short and maybe old) on both players. I would take Samson George. Even though he was an Iona commit, he looks like someone we could use. He seems to have very good strength, quickness and athletic ability and great instincts. The only disclaimer: I don't know the level of competition he played against at First Love. Unless it was ridiculously poor, Pitt should offer.

The Efretuei kid did not look the part to me. He seems to lack strength and quickness.

I believe there is a 6-10 Russian (Lenny Kulokovskiy) at about Efreteui's skill level that played on the team that Peace did.

Should George sign with Pitt, we would have 12 players including 3 seniors. I would leave the last scholarship open in order to have 4 to give in 2018. I would replace Milligan but only with a grad transfer point guard. If someone terrific became available late (someone better than any likely Pitt 2018 recruit), I would decide to use the open scholarship.

Sign George and we are (more or less) set for 2017-2018.

Lots of nuances to all of this, lots of variables. Certainly not ideal to overload in one class like this for the reasons some note in this thread.

But, I think we all recognize that there is a much higher level of transiency in the game today and there almost assuredly will be movement with the kids coming in for the fall that shakes up the roster over time.

In that context - the practical reality that Stallings has very little room for error, or time so to prove himself. There is a point where the mindset of holding spots to try to get better players in the next class becomes a bit of a roll of the dice.

The 2018 kids will come to campus at the start of his third season. If things go as expected this year with the team taking some big lumps, if that third season goes badly, it is at the point where the math becomes doable, painful for sure, but doable, to give him the ax. Almost assuredly if he does not have a big fourth year under that very likely scenario he would get canned.

And, the honest assessment is even if this crew gets it stuff together and becomes a lot more effective at closing on recruits, the simple reality of what we are seeing in this class is they will be pulling a couple top 75 to 125ish kids, who probably are not going to walk on campus and be kids who can be the difference in winning ACC games as underclassman, the will be guys who need at least a year to become good starters - Stallings fourth season.

Unless they pull a SERIOUS rabbit out of the hat, we aren't seeing any top 25ish type kids who would be plug and play difference makers in Stallings third season, and even if there is one they can pull in, he most assuredly won't be excluded if they happen to have four other kids committed, they would take that kid and nudge someone out.

All of that being said, watching this kids video, I can't honestly say that I see enough to think he is a safe bet to be a good ACC player. BUT, I can honesty say we have most assuredly seen worse big men brought into the program.

In the context of the massive void in the post in the program right now, that functionally THIS class is going to make or break Stallings, and that more so today than ever IF things happen to turn around enough that he will be more than three, four years, spots are very likely to open up naturally, there really is no downside to taking the kid.

Finally, I suspect that he stays a 2018 kid, he will be recruited much more actively by major programs.
 
This has been a good thread, many good thoughts.
Most of us believe we're gonna have a piss poor season in 2017.
My focus is more on 2018, and beyond. IMO we're gonna take
some big lumps in 2018 also, because we'll be very young with
mostly freshmen and sophomores. What will be telling is the players
themselves and what kind of recruits they are.

My sense is we have not ONE player who is a difference maker, or a high
ACC type.I feel that Stallings has to recruit at the Young and Artis level
and even higher. We all know of those two and their shortcomings, but
talent wise they were definite ACC level talents. We cannot compete in
this conference with only two players (ok,,I'll count Jeter and Johnson)
of that level. So far I see nothing of that level with our present recruits.
At this point, my focus is on our other 2018 recruits....Stallings has to get
that class to the 4 star level IMO. If not, we'll be perennial ACC bottom dwellers.
 
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This has been a good thread, many good thoughts.
Most of us believe we're gonna have a piss poor season in 2017.
My focus is more on 2018, and beyond. IMO we're gonna take
some big lumps in 2018 also, because we'll be very young with
mostly freshmen and sophomores. What will be telling is the players
themselves and what kind of recruits they are.

My sense is we have not ONE player who is a difference maker, or a high
ACC type.I feel that Stallings has to recruit at the Young and Artis level
and even higher. We all know of those two and their shortcomings, but
talent wise they were definite ACC level talents. We cannot compete in
this conference with only two players (ok,,I'll count Jeter and Johnson)
of that level. So far I see nothing of that level with our present recruits.
At this point, my focus is on our other 2018 recruits....Stallings has to get
that class to the 4 star level IMO. If not, we'll be perennial ACC bottom dwellers.
Agreed. Even with 3 NBA level players in his last year at Vandy, they barely made the tourney. He hasn't shown to be the coach that can transfer below radar to medium level talent into a high quality team.
 
We're getting four in next year's class without "weeding out the players who are not good enough." Milligan, Luther, Boykin and the walk on scholarship (if he's still on the team) get us four automatically. I don't like the idea of getting rid of players by dumping them, but if they want to leave, we should help them land at another school. Others will maybe be happy with being a team member, riding the bench, and earning a Pitt degree rather than going to a lower level school. Either way, we're gonna lose a few and I see probably five recruits for 2018.
2018 is big for this program, and will help determine Stallings" future.
We should fill the last spot with a Grad Transfer Big. That helps the current roster, and then provides 4 ships for next year.
 
What makes me assume he didn't focus on signing only the best 6 guys? The fact that he had to sign 11.

That's not even mentioning what all of this diversion of effort means for his next class. I'd personally rather him invest more time into better recruits for the next year than trying to sign a Wilson clone, when he already had one on his roster.
Pitt offered 1 5 star and 10 4 stars & 2 3 stars that went elsewhere , their failure wasn't for lack of effort . They lost no one to a school that you'd be shocked that a recruit would choose over Pitt . He has his work cut out for him to reestablish Pitt as a place where 4 stars come to play .
 
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He has his work cut out for him to reestablish Pitt as a place where 4 stars come to play .

And that's why he shouldn't spend a bunch of time recruiting 2* and 3* players. I didn't say he should've offered 6 5* players, I said he shouldn't have diffused his time so greatly. Again, the context was that what he has now is not much better or worse than if he'd done nothing at all and kept the roster in front of him. He still would've been able to bring in at least 4 players if he hadn't chased anyone off. He didn't need to sidetrack himself and/or his staff by trying to replace Rozelle Nix. That's just silly.

It's a matter of process efficiency. If you spend all your time for negligible improvement in one area, you are sacrificing the potential greater improvement in another area.
 
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And that's why he shouldn't spend a bunch of time recruiting 2* and 3* players. I didn't say he should've offered 6 5* players, I said he shouldn't have diffused his time so greatly. Again, the context was that what he has now is not much better or worse than if he'd done nothing at all and kept the roster in front of him. He still would've been able to bring in at least 4 players if he hadn't chased anyone off. He didn't need to sidetrack himself and/or his staff by trying to replace Rozelle Nix. That's just silly.

It's a matter of process efficiency. If you spend all your time for negligible improvement in one area, you are sacrificing the potential greater improvement in another area.
No , I think your wrong ,when he failed to land his higher rated targets he went on to the guys he's signing . Ask Mic Jagger he'll tell you that you don't always get the one you want .....
 
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