Say what you want about Pastner

[Sean Miller Fan]

He took over a dead GT program picked last in the ACC who famously scheduled a D2 game in February because there was real fear they wouldn't win a game. It took 5 years, but he got GT to a Top 4 ACC finish and the NCAA Tournament and he did it with a senior-laden team. Guys who bought into him and his program. You love to see that.

Ironically, GT passed over Capel for Pastner.

 

[TD_6082]

I don't understand why he didn't sport the Elvis sideburns while he was at Memphis.

 

[wbrpanther]

He took over a dead GT program picked last in the ACC who famously scheduled a D2 game in February because there was real fear they wouldn't win a game. It took 5 years, but he got GT to a Top 4 ACC finish and the NCAA Tournament and he did it with a senior-laden team. Guys who bought into him and his program. You love to see that.

Ironically, GT passed over Capel for Pastner.

So why are some “fans” kicking Capel to the side after three. The program he took over was at least as bad as GTs.

 

[Voice of Danno]

And it only took him 3 years at GT to put them on probation for recruiting violations. But I'm sure he's clean now,

 

[pittjas]

He took over a dead GT program picked last in the ACC who famously scheduled a D2 game in February because there was real fear they wouldn't win a game. It took 5 years, but he got GT to a Top 4 ACC finish and the NCAA Tournament and he did it with a senior-laden team. Guys who bought into him and his program. You love to see that.

Ironically, GT passed over Capel for Pastner.

Confused by the point/tone of this post.

It seems to be a shot at Capel but...

1.) GT was 8-10 in Conf in Gregory’s last year there. Not 0-18.

2.) Pastner’s record in Year 3 in conf... wait for it... 6-12.

Our record this year? 6-10.

So I’m very confused by this post unless you’re saying to wait 2 more seasons to really judge Capel.. which I’m fine with and is probably fair (and what Heather’s thinking).. but that goes against your other posts and most of the board.

 

[New York Panther]

So why are some “fans” kicking Capel to the side after three. The program he took over was at least as bad as GTs.

Worse. Never been another all-defeated team in league play.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Confused by the point/tone of this post.

It seems to be a shot at Capel but...

1.) GT was 8-10 in Conf in Gregory’s last year there. Not 0-18.

2.) Pastner’s record in Year 3 in conf... wait for it... 6-12.

Our record this year? 6-10.

So I’m very confused by this post unless you’re saying to wait 2 more seasons to really judge Capel.. which I’m fine with and is probably fair (and what Heather’s thinking).. but that goes against your other posts and most of the board.

I suspect it is the Senior laden team that is the point. Obviously its almost impossible for us to have a four year senior laden team any time soon.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Confused by the point/tone of this post.

It seems to be a shot at Capel but...

1.) GT was 8-10 in Conf in Gregory’s last year there. Not 0-18.

2.) Pastner’s record in Year 3 in conf... wait for it... 6-12.

Our record this year? 6-10.

So I’m very confused by this post unless you’re saying to wait 2 more seasons to really judge Capel.. which I’m fine with and is probably fair (and what Heather’s thinking).. but that goes against your other posts and most of the board.

Why do people continually post what the previous coach's record was? It is beyond irrelevant just like in the case of VT's Young. Pastner inherited very few players, was picked dead last and many people didn't think they'd win an ACC game which is why they scheduled that D2 game. Pastner, Young, and Capel all had very similar rebuilds. Young is going in 2, Pastner 5, Capel ?

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Confused by the point/tone of this post.

It seems to be a shot at Capel but...

1.) GT was 8-10 in Conf in Gregory’s last year there. Not 0-18.

2.) Pastner’s record in Year 3 in conf... wait for it... 6-12.

Our record this year? 6-10.

So I’m very confused by this post unless you’re saying to wait 2 more seasons to really judge Capel.. which I’m fine with and is probably fair (and what Heather’s thinking).. but that goes against your other posts and most of the board.

I think that's what he's saying. Let's judge Capel at the end of year five. At least that's what he should be saying if he's going to remain consistent (doubtful).

And there is a huge difference between inheriting a zero win conference team and an 8 win conference team, regardless of what place you're expected to finish in. That zero, along with having baldy as coach, put a giant red X on our program when it came to recruiting. There is a stigma associated with being one of the all time worst teams in your conference. BC is struggling to resurrect itself and so are we.

Also, resurrecting a program in downtown Atlanta is a few degrees of difficulty easier than here in Pittsburgh. That's a fact that can't be overlooked.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

So why are some “fans” kicking Capel to the side after three. The program he took over was at least as bad as GTs.

Indeed. Far, far worse actually.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Why do people continually post what the previous coach's record was? It is beyond irrelevant just like in the case of VT's Young. Pastner inherited very few players, was picked dead last and many people didn't think they'd win an ACC game which is why they scheduled that D2 game. Pastner, Young, and Capel all had very similar rebuilds. Young is going in 2, Pastner 5, Capel ?

Because the cupboard wasn’t bare
This isn’t complicated

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think that's what he's saying. Let's judge Capel at the end of year five. At least that's what he should be saying if he's going to remain consistent (doubtful).

And there is a huge difference between inheriting a zero win conference team and an 8 win conference team, regardless of what place you're expected to finish in. That zero, along with having baldy as coach, put a giant red X on our program when it came to recruiting. There is a stigma associated with being one of the all time worst teams in your conference. BC is struggling to resurrect itself and so are we.

Also, resurrecting a program in downtown Atlanta is a few degrees of difficulty easier than here in Pittsburgh. That's a fact that can't be overlooked.

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong on everything. The location of your college doesnt matter at all. At all. A good recruiter can get guys from anywhere to go anywhere. These kids leave home at 15 to prep.

And again, the record of the previous coach doesn't matter at all. I don't know why anyone would bring that up. If Scott Drew left Baylor and the new coach inherited lets say 2 bench players and 0 recruits, that's a total rebuild. Baylor, like VT, like GT isnt predestined to always have great players. What Drew would have done there is meaningless to the next coach if he didnt leave him any players.

The other thing about giving Capel 5 years like Pastner.....Pastner, picked 15th was ACC COY in his 1st season and made the NIT Final. That season was an epic success.

His next 2 years, he backslid a little partly due to underrecruited Josh Okogie becoming a star and leaving after 2, very similar to Champagnie. But in Year 4, they finished 5th in the ACC with an 11-9 record while Capel is poised to only win a couple games.

There is no comparison between Pastner and Capel at this point.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Wow, you couldn't be more wrong on everything. The location of your college doesnt matter at all. At all. A good recruiter can get guys from anywhere to go anywhere. These kids leave home at 15 to prep.

And again, the record of the previous coach doesn't matter at all. I don't know why anyone would bring that up. If Scott Drew left Baylor and the new coach inherited lets say 2 bench players and 0 recruits, that's a total rebuild. Baylor, like VT, like GT isnt predestined to always have great players. What Drew would have done there is meaningless to the next coach if he didnt leave him any players.

The other thing about giving Capel 5 years like Pastner.....Pastner, picked 15th was ACC COY in his 1st season and made the NIT Final. That season was an epic success.

His next 2 years, he backslid a little partly due to underrecruited Josh Okogie becoming a star and leaving after 2, very similar to Champagnie. But in Year 4, they finished 5th in the ACC with an 11-9 record while Capel is poised to only win a couple games.

There is no comparison between Pastner and Capel at this point.

Location matters. If you've got two bottom feeders programs with equivalent coaching staffs, you don't think being in a large, basketball hungry metro with an NBA team right down the street plays a factor in some kid's decision? As opposed to a city where basketball is a distant fourth in interest after the last place Pirates? I'm not saying it's factor number one but you cannot ignore it.

All I'm saying is that you're praising the job Pastner has done in year five. I'm sure you're opinion of him was very different after year three, regardless of what he did in year one. Right now you can only compare Pastner against Capel at the end of year three. Let's see where Capel is at the end of year five.

Let's also not forget the major recruiting violations. I'm sure plenty here would like to see Capel involved in such tactics (as he was at Oklahoma). I wouldn't.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Location matters. If you've got two bottom feeders programs with equivalent coaching staffs, you don't think being in a large, basketball hungry metro with an NBA team right down the street plays a factor in some kid's decision?

Nope. Not at all.

Creighton
WVU
Texas Tech
Gonzaga
Iowa
VT
Alabama

Location matters less than 0%

 

[Cap pitt]

So why are some “fans” kicking Capel to the side after three. The program he took over was at least as bad as GTs.

Right, capel needs a couple of more years, not even Rome was built in day, and keep in mind capel recruited very well at Duke, he's not at Duke anymore, Pitt is not Duke,

 

[JS School]

Why do people continually post what the previous coach's record was? It is beyond irrelevant just like in the case of VT's Young. Pastner inherited very few players, was picked dead last and many people didn't think they'd win an ACC game which is why they scheduled that D2 game. Pastner, Young, and Capel all had very similar rebuilds. Young is going in 2, Pastner 5, Capel ?

If Coach K's replacement is 6-12 in his third year, do you think Duke fans are going to agree that the previous coach's record is beyond irrelevant? I tend to think that they would feel that the new guy completely screwed up a good program.

In another thread I said it's harder than we think to go from 0-18 to 6-12 in three years. You disagreed. Now you are praising a guy who went from 8-10 to 6-12 in the same span. Feel free to predict that Capel won't get to 4th place in year 5. You'll probably be correct. But that will be evidence that there is a big difference in taking over an 8-10 team as compared to an 0-18 team to just about everybody but you.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If Coach K's replacement is 6-12 in his third year, do you think Duke fans are going to agree that the previous coach's record is beyond irrelevant? I tend to think that they would feel that the new guy completely screwed up a good program.

Duke is a blue blood. That is completely different and you know that. There's a few places where the name on the front of the jersey matters to recruits and Duke is one.

 

[JS School]

Duke is a blue blood. That is completely different and you know that. There's a few places where the name on the front of the jersey matters to recruits and Duke is one.

Okay, so sometimes it matters. But not when you're praising Pastner, or criticizing Capel.

8-10 and 0-18 are not very similar rebuilds. 0-18 is a disaster of historic proportions, particularly when almost all of those losses were by double digits.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Okay, so sometimes it matters. But not when you're praising Pastner, or criticizing Capel.

8-10 and 0-18 are not very similar rebuilds. 0-18 is a disaster of historic proportions, particularly when almost all of those losses were by double digits.

Yep, it matters if you are a blue blood.

0-18 or 8-10 doesn't matter at all.

What matters are the players you inherit. Pastner inherited 1 starter and 4 other players averaging in the low single digits. Capel inherited 3 starters (JWF, Stevenson, Brown) though, yes, obviously from a terrible team.

If we go by "ACC level players:"

Capel inherited just JWF. Carr, Stewart, and Luther transferred

Pastner inherited Stephens, Lammers, Jackson, and Heath. I don't remember if Ironhead's son was a walk-on or not but he was awful.

So while yes, I agree that Pastner had an advantage inheriting 4 ACC level player's to Capel's 1, Pastner (and Young) had incredibly difficult rebuilds.....like all-time difficult rebuilds just as Capel has. They got to the NCAAT in 2 and 5 years. Capel is back at Square 1 in Year 4 with a team who will be picked 14th only because of BC's apathy towards the sport

 

[Pitt79]

And it only took him 3 years at GT to put them on probation for recruiting violations. But I'm sure he's clean now,

I'd rather be on probation and have a winning record or be in the dance or even NIT, Hell, I'd gladly celebrate a VACATED Final Four over what we see year in and year out.