So you can build a stadium at Hazelwood Glen...

[HailtoPitt]

People complaining about traffic are funny. It's apparent those folks don't get out much, so just stay home.

Games on campus are a weekend event for a lot of folks who travel in. This includes visiting fans. They stay in North side or downtown now, rather than Oakland.

Get out and go to some away games. See what it's like on other campuses the Friday before a game. See what's it's like parking there, then get back to me about traffic.

The only relevant excuse to not build the stadium is money. That's it. Everything else is noise. Solve that and everything else can be managed.

It's the money. Other schools make football a priority and invest for long-term success. At Pitt, football is simply a tool to use to get money to pay for the non revenue sports. The irony is that if Pitt hadn't deemphasized football success going back over 30 years ago, they very well might been in line to earn tens of millions more per year for those other sports. Idiots.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It depends on which half empty stadium you are talking about, Heinz/Accrisure or Pitt Stadium.

Because the only people who think that Pitt Stadium was close to full every game are the people who weren't there.

Or who are suffering from dementia.

Because it was falling apart and the program sucked. It would be like never changing the oil in your Toyota car and then saying "it's always broken down so I had no choice but to get a Ford."

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt has plenty of parking in Oakland, just with the University controlled lots. Many of us drive into Oakland daily and park. The available parking is largely consumed Mon-Fri during the day. However, the lots/garages could easily be made available on Saturdays for football games (even on Thursday nights!). The permits from Pitt that us daily commuters use already contain language about the lots not being available to permit hold during special events. In fact, Pitt would make money by selling gameday passes to these lots and keeping all the net revenue (vs sharing with parking operators on North Shore).

Traffic in Oakland area would be annoying but not unbearable - more people come into in Oakland M-F for school/work/hospital visits than would come to a Pitt football game, it's just that when the games ends everyone leaves all at once (provided we all stayed for the free soda!).

If there is a logistical concern is that the overall trip to the Stadium would change significantly for people from certain areas are Oakland is a little less central and a bit harder to get to from many suburbs than the North Shore is. People from Eastern and some Southern areas would not mind riding to Oakland, but coming from Moon Twp, Robinson, Cranberry, etc would be more of a commute.

Right. Parking isnt an issue. There are more than 15K-20K parking spots in Oakland to handle the folks driving in for the game. The issue is traffic, and its really only an issue after the game since before the game, people come in at different times. That said, traffic and parking arent why there is no stadium. The university, rightly or wrongly, just doesn't feel its worth the money. If they felt it was worth the money, they'd buy up land and build it.

BTW, I think the best place is on the Blvd of the Allies. Buy that UPMC office building, 17 duplexes next to it and Pittsburgh Housing Authority units behind it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Because it was falling apart and the program sucked. It would be like never changing the oil in your Toyota car and then saying "it's always broken down so I had no choice but to get a Ford."

The stadium was falling apart when I started school in 1982. It was a decades long problem with no easy solution.

And as far as the program sucking, well, like I said, my freshman year was 1982, so literally right at the end of the greatest stretch of Pitt football for the last 80-plus years. And it not only was not sold out then (unless we were playing someone like Penn State or Notre Dame), most of the time it wasn't even close.

 

[joefromlancaster]

Pitt stadium held 56,500 people. We had our best
year of attendance we averaged just over 50,000.
Which was not that bad. I hope a new stadium would
be about 48,000/52,000 people. Would also hope that
the new stadium would incorporate education/dorms into the
design. Might also include priority parking under it for about
1,000 vehicles.

Just a dream.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The stadium was falling apart when I started school in 1982. It was a decades long problem with no easy solution.

And as far as the program sucking, well, like I said, my freshman year was 1982, so literally right at the end of the greatest stretch of Pitt football for the last 80-plus years. And it not only was not sold out then (unless we were playing someone like Penn State or Notre Dame), most of the time it wasn't even close.

Actually, Pitt's attendance in the early 80s was better then it is now when compared to everyone else. The difference is that Pitt didn't invest in the program and grow the fan base, while others did.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Actually, Pitt's attendance in the early 80s was better then it is now when compared to everyone else. The difference is that Pitt didn't invest in the program and grow the fan base, while others did.

So your point is that if Pitt is in the middle of the greatest stretch of football the program has seen since the 1930s, Pitt will have good, not great, but good, attendance. Yeah, sure.

Of course then you have to admit that Pitt actually has had better attendance than that while not being in any such stretch of play on the field at the current stadium too.

Or, well, you have to admit that if you want to talk about the facts rather than just opinions.

Like every other school in the country, Pitt draws better when they win. And that is just as true at Heinz/Accrisure as it was at Pitt Stadium.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt stadium held 56,500 people. We had our best
year of attendance we averaged just over 50,000.
Which was not that bad. I hope a new stadium would
be about 48,000/52,000 people. Would also hope that
the new stadium would incorporate education/dorms into the
design. Might also include priority parking under it for about
1,000 vehicles.

Just a dream.

My plan for a Blvd of the Allies stadium involves building the back end of the stadium overtop a pretty steep hill, which would mean you could include a parking lot underneath that you would access from Bates St.

 

[HailtoPitt]

So your point is that if Pitt is in the middle of the greatest stretch of football the program has seen since the 1930s, Pitt will have good, not great, but good, attendance. Yeah, sure.

Of course then you have to admit that Pitt actually has had better attendance than that while not being in any such stretch of play on the field at the current stadium too.

Or, well, you have to admit that if you want to talk about the facts rather than just opinions.

Like every other school in the country, Pitt draws better when they win. And that is just as true at Heinz/Accrisure as it was at Pitt Stadium.

Because people like talk about how terrible Pitt's attendance was back then, but they compare it to more modern times. When it's compared to everyone else back then, then attendance wasn't bad.

 

[Conemaugh]

Actually, Pitt's attendance in the early 80s was better then it is now when compared to everyone else. The difference is that Pitt didn't invest in the program and grow the fan base, while others did.

That's a bingo. Check out Penn State's attendance and Beaver Stadiums capacity in 1980 (60,000). Not much more than Pitt. As college football popularity and attendance increased through the 80's and 90's Pitt did not keep pace. Using 1980 Pitt attendance numbers and comparing them to attendance numbers now is not an apple to apple comparison is not appropriate. Pitt's attendance was fine back then when compared to their peers. And if they would have kept pace with their peers Heinz field attendance would be fine.

 

[HailtoPitt]

That's a bingo. Check out Penn State's attendance and Beaver Stadiums capacity in 1980 (60,000). Not much more than Pitt. As college football popularity and attendance increased through the 80's and 90's Pitt did not keep pace. Using 1980 Pitt attendance numbers and comparing them to attendance numbers now is not an apple to apple comparison is not appropriate. Pitt's attendance was fine back then when compared to their peers. And if they would have kept pace with their peers Heinz field attendance would be fine.

Correct. And it's factual and can be backed up by data, which is available if people want to research. And yes, some schools back then may have been incorrectly classified as division 1 and they pull down the average, but eliminate those from the totals and Pitt's attendance still wasn't bad.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

We are much better off in a perpetual 1/2 empty stadium? Imagine honestly thinking this. Even in Pitt’s 2021 season, the upper bowl was often a ghost town. Some Pitt fans will never grasp just how bad a decision it was to move to the North Side in the first place. Doubling down on stupid is a bad look.

Just tarp the stadium down to 50,000 fans 7 times a year.

Save the new stadium money $400 mil for NIL.

Easy fix.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[MarySki]

We are much better off in a perpetual 1/2 empty stadium? Imagine honestly thinking this. Even in Pitt’s 2021 season, the upper bowl was often a ghost town. Some Pitt fans will never grasp just how bad a decision it was to move to the North Side in the first place. Doubling down on stupid is a bad look.

Love Heinz.

 

[Lion_Backer]

That's a bingo. Check out Penn State's attendance and Beaver Stadiums capacity in 1980 (60,000). Not much more than Pitt. As college football popularity and attendance increased through the 80's and 90's Pitt did not keep pace. Using 1980 Pitt attendance numbers and comparing them to attendance numbers now is not an apple to apple comparison is not appropriate. Pitt's attendance was fine back then when compared to their peers. And if they would have kept pace with their peers Heinz field attendance would be fine.

The capacity for Beaver Stadium in 1980 was 83,770 per Wiki.

The problem that Pitt had building a fan base in the 1970's was predicated on it being primarily a commuter school. Particularly for those from the area who chose to attend Pitt.

Not to mention the wildly successful Steeler and Pirate teams from that era. Not to mention Penn State as well.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I would hope that there would be a plan for where people would/could go.

I don't want to seem apathetic about the plight of the poor. I'm enlightened enough to understand why the poor continue to be poor despite availability of an abundance of jobs that pay above the poverty line (and I don't think it is just because they are lazy). I know nothing about urban planning, but it seems to me that well planned gentrification could go a long way towards helping break the cycle of poverty.

I mean - the simple answer is create housing for some current residence in a rent controlled way .

Then it depends how things are zoned .

Those housing areas need ready access to groceries , etc .

Because what gentrifies is desire for folks to live in these convenient areas
It just can’t be at the expense of those who lived there before

Hey- anybody that’s helps pay property taxes throughout the city should help my own portion goes down or stays stable - I’m all selfishly for

But I also have empathy to know pricing people out- has some terrible outcomes
Take a bike ride down the river trail to see what I mean

 

[HailtoPitt]

The capacity for Beaver Stadium in 1980 was 83,770 per Wiki.

The problem that Pitt had building a fan base in the 1970's was predicated on it being primarily a commuter school. Particularly for those from the area who chose to attend Pitt.

Not to mention the wildly successful Steeler and Pirate teams from that era. Not to mention Penn State as well.

No, the problem is that Pitt didn't invest in the program. They allowed great coaches to bolt. Didn't update the stadium. Didn't invest in long term sustainable measures. Them, in the 90s when the team stunk and played in a stadium with no updates, the blamed the fans.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Actually, Pitt's attendance in the early 80s was better then it is now when compared to everyone else. The difference is that Pitt didn't invest in the program and grow the fan base, while others did.

You continue to make this failing argument
And losing
Stay on your couch and pinch your Pennies
You don’t care and you never have

 

[jivecat]

PITT’s best attendance year was when they were ranked #1 or #2 and the NFL was on strike. Those early 1980’s numbers are tainted.

 

[Panthers2015]

PITT’s best attendance year was when they were ranked #1 or #2 and the NFL was on strike. Those early 1980’s numbers are tainted.

So 1982?

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Pitt’s best attendance was 2003 at Heinz Field. College Gameday was at the VT vs Pitt game in 2003 and Lou scored the game winning Touchdown.

 

[Panthers2015]

Pitt’s best attendance was 2003 at Heinz Field. College Gameday was at the VT vs Pitt game in 2003 and Lou scored the game winning Touchdown.

Lot of really big games that year

 

[HailtoPitt]

PITT’s best attendance year was when they were ranked #1 or #2 and the NFL was on strike. Those early 1980’s numbers are tainted.

Lol. So which it? Either their attendance numbers were terrible or they weren't.

 

[pittdan77]

i was intrigued about the possibility of building a stadium in the hazelwood project years ago so i actually did some extremely technical scientific research to see if it would fit, im not even kidding..

what i did was looked up Heinz stadium on google maps and measured it on my computer screen with my finger nail. then i used that and then moved the google map view over hazelwood and put my fingernail in the open space to see if it would fit..

the consensus after this research was, no, not enough room.

If you didn't overlay an MSPaint rendering of a stadium then you're really not trying hard enough.

 

[PittPharm2002]

lol. There's no space.

It's over anyway. Pitt didn't move with enough urgency in the past.

It’s not on campus so your cry and roll Pennies

 

[PittPharm2002]

Because people like talk about how terrible Pitt's attendance was back then, but they compare it to more modern times. When it's compared to everyone else back then, then attendance wasn't bad.

Because it was
Your data points was always flawed
Because you’re not clever
Just a cheap whiner

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Would anyone want to work in Oakland with no parking? They should relocate Pitt and UPMC to Butler County where there is plenty of parking. How do those people get to work everyday?

good medication.....

 

[PittPharm2002]

That's a bingo. Check out Penn State's attendance and Beaver Stadiums capacity in 1980 (60,000). Not much more than Pitt. As college football popularity and attendance increased through the 80's and 90's Pitt did not keep pace. Using 1980 Pitt attendance numbers and comparing them to attendance numbers now is not an apple to apple comparison is not appropriate. Pitt's attendance was fine back then when compared to their peers. And if they would have kept pace with their peers Heinz field attendance would be fine.

You’re off by a about 23k regarding needed stadium
So that’s how accurate your insights are

Pitt’s attendance fell off a cliff in the mid 80s and bottomed out in the 90s
All while still on campus .

If you think Pitt’s attendance outside for a 6 year period was “fine” you don’t get to comment nothings reality based .
holy shit

 

[PittPharm2002]

good medication.....

And everyone who works in Oakland either takes the bus or park and rides .

 

[NTOP]

Would anyone want to work in Oakland with no parking? They should relocate Pitt and UPMC to Butler County where there is plenty of parking. How do those people get to work everyday?

They don't have EVs.

 

[NTOP]

Pitt’s best attendance was 2003 at Heinz Field. College Gameday was at the VT vs Pitt game in 2003 and Lou scored the game winning Touchdown.

Pitt vs. PA AG school is STILL the biggest crowd ever in Pgh.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

And everyone who works in Oakland either takes the bus or park and rides .

plenty of people drive into oakland daily and there is actually plenty of parking too. the biggest issue is they keep taking away car driving road space and giving it to busses, bicycles, etc. fifth avenue is essentially a 1-2 lane road now from Shadyside to Carlow, Forbes in front of CMU is down to one lane - they did that on purposes to 'calm traffic' (i.e. make more traffic so the cars go slower).

 

[pittmeister]

Sigh…

While we’re at it, Forbes Field should never have been torn down. It should have been renovated. So much history. So many hall of famers played on that field. Hosted four World Series (1909, 1925, 1927, 1960). The best part is that Pitt students could walk to the stadium. They could have tail gated dozens of games in April, May and September…

Has Pirates baseball been the same since the Pirates left the Pitt campus for the North Shore? Three Rivers Stadium only hosted two World Series.

Bring Pirates baseball back to Oakland!!!

 

[PittPharm2002]

plenty of people drive into oakland daily and there is actually plenty of parking too. the biggest issue is they keep taking away car driving road space and giving it to busses, bicycles, etc. fifth avenue is essentially a 1-2 lane road now from Shadyside to Carlow, Forbes in front of CMU is down to one lane - they did that on purposes to 'calm traffic' (i.e. make more traffic so the cars go slower).

There is not plenty of parking
That’s nonsense
On sight parking isn’t even an option for most upmc Oakland employees
Never was
Bike lanes and busses don’t create traffic - they alleviate it

 

[Pitt_Boss]

There is not plenty of parking
That’s nonsense
On sight parking isn’t even an option for most upmc Oakland employees
Never was
Bike lanes and busses don’t create traffic - they alleviate it

hahaha -bike lanes and bus lanes alleviate traffic…what kool aid are you drinking??

Fifth Avenue has lost 2-3 lanes that cars used to drive on. You don’t think 2-3 additional lanes would move more cars faster?

Those lanes only allow bikes and busses to move faster, but comes at the expense of creating more automotive traffic. And don’t say that the faster busses makes more people ride the bus instead of driving …the PAT ridership levels disprove this.

 

[HailtoPitt]

hahaha -bike lanes and bus lanes alleviate traffic…what kool aid are you drinking??

Fifth Avenue has lost 2-3 lanes that cars used to drive on. You don’t think 2-3 additional lanes would move more cars faster?

Those lanes only allow bikes and busses to move faster, but comes at the expense of creating more automotive traffic. And don’t say that the faster busses makes more people ride the bus instead of driving …the PAT ridership levels disprove this.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Cool you can post fictional memes. Now post a reputable study showing how much the PRT buses reduce vehicular traffic in Oakland. I’ll wait.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Cool you can post fictional memes. Now post a reputable study showing how much the PRT buses reduce vehicular traffic in Oakland. I’ll wait.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Clearly if they would just close that highway and turn it into a bike path everyone would get where they were going a lot faster.

 

[NTOP]

Clearly if they would just close that highway and turn it into a bike path everyone would get where they were going a lot faster.

Peduto is still dreaming to restrict all the tunnels to bikes.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Clearly if they would just close that highway and turn it into a bike path everyone would get where they were going a lot faster.

I'm just having a little fun, but in all seriousness, trains/rail are the best option for dense locations like Oakland. Nobody wants to remove the cars, but mass transit is absolutely needed for these locations. It's a shame that the city/county gave into their Steeler bosses and our resources towards the rail line to the stadiums at the expense of Oakland not getting one.