So you can build a stadium at Hazelwood Glen...

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'm just having a little fun, but in all seriousness, trains/rail are the best option for dense locations like Oakland. Nobody wants to remove the cars, but mass transit is absolutely needed for these locations. It's a shame that the city/county gave into their Steeler bosses and our resources towards the rail line to the stadiums at the expense of Oakland not getting one.

I have said on numerous occasions here that if I lived in the city I would absolutely advocate for a robust mass transit system, and unlike most people who live in the city, I'd be willing to pay for it.

The fact that the T doesn't go to Oakland (and beyond) and the airport and the North Hills is simply evidence of how short-sighted most Pittsburgh/Allegheny County politicians have been for the last four or five decades.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

A rail system from Downtown through Oakland to whatever Eastern terminus you wish would be totally different than our crappy bus system. And that was the original intent, that's why the Penn station T stop was put in. Instead they close that station (except for during construction projects) and have no plans to go east. Instead, they are spending $300+ million to install a BRT that will remove car lanes and save about 2 minutes on the commute from Downtown to Oakland. No one is going to change their value calculation on whether to drive or use public transit over those 2 minutes, it will be status quo (I am also skeptical they will even save 2 minutes).

All that being said, the top priority should actually be a rail train the goes from Downtown to the Airport with at most 2 stops in the middle somewhere for park & ride lots, but make the total trip in about 20 minutes. Dulles Airport just got a stop on DC Metro rail line that was long over due, joining most major cities that have a train to the airport, except for places where it is not really needed. But like Phoenix, Denver, Newark, Chicago, San Fran, Minneapolis, Dallas, Portland, Seattle, etc all have light rail service to and from their airports. Even JFK in NY has the AirTrain, though you need to then transfer to bus/subway to get anywhere useful .

 

[Conemaugh]

You’re off by a about 23k regarding needed stadium
So that’s how accurate your insights are

Pitt’s attendance fell off a cliff in the mid 80s and bottomed out in the 90s
All while still on campus .

If you think Pitt’s attendance outside for a 6 year period was “fine” you don’t get to comment nothings reality based .
holy shit

Was your response to my post a "misfire"? I am not following your response. Or did you misunderstand what I wrote?

I will admit that I posted earlier in the thread that the capacity of Beaver stadium in 1980 was 60,000, which wasn't all that different than Pitt stadium. It turns out that a Beaver stadium expansion happened earlier than I thought. Per Wikipedia the capacity was 60,203 from 1976 to 1978. I was off by a couple of years and acknowledge my mistake. It was 57,538 from 1972 to 1976 and 46,284 from 1969 to 1972.

 

[bmz32]

Just tarp the stadium down to 50,000 fans 7 times a year.

Save the new stadium money $400 mil for NIL.

Easy fix.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Its too easy... yet they wanna double down on 20k empty yellow seats...

 

[HailtoPitt]

Was your response to my post a "misfire"? I am not following your response. Or did you misunderstand what I wrote?

I will admit that I posted earlier in the thread that the capacity of Beaver stadium in 1980 was 60,000, which wasn't all that different than Pitt stadium. It turns out that a Beaver stadium expansion happened earlier than I thought. Per Wikipedia the capacity was 60,203 from 1976 to 1978. I was off by a couple of years and acknowledge my mistake. It was 57,538 from 1972 to 1976 and 46,284 from 1969 to 1972.

Don't engage the troll. He will put in minimal effort and lob personal attacks. Use the ignore button.

 

[jivecat]

An airport rail system makes very good sense, but no one is coming downtown anymore. The area is getting run down (to an extent) and less commercial real estate is being utilized since Covid. This is like people arguing how to get patrons back to movie theatres and Gamestop. Technology has moved forward and it has impacted where we go and how we do it.

 

[thom67]

How do those people get to work though? Where do they park? Can Pitt fans use those parking lots? Of course they can. The Pitt fanbase needs to get younger. Traffic isnt going to affect younger people like older people. They can watch TV on their phone while they wait in traffic.

Many of the people working in Oakland such as restaurant workers and hospital workers are in Oakland working during football games.

 

[jivecat]

Do you think the city could declare eminent domain on the Hill district behind Cost to build a stadium? The idea would be that it would improve the economic vitality of the area?

 

[PittPharm2002]

hahaha -bike lanes and bus lanes alleviate traffic…what kool aid are you drinking??

Fifth Avenue has lost 2-3 lanes that cars used to drive on. You don’t think 2-3 additional lanes would move more cars faster?

Those lanes only allow bikes and busses to move faster, but comes at the expense of creating more automotive traffic. And don’t say that the faster busses makes more people ride the bus instead of driving …the PAT ridership levels disprove this.

No they wouldn’t
Traffic isn’t worse
It’s actually far better in the city

Stay in your exurb

 

[PittPharm2002]

Cool you can post fictional memes. Now post a reputable study showing how much the PRT buses reduce vehicular traffic in Oakland. I’ll wait.

Economic Impact of Public Transportation : BATA

Public transportation provides economic benefits to both individuals riding and the communities they are apart of. Find out how here!

www.bata.net

You’re being stupid

I took the 82 home from the Pens vs TB game and beat my friends who drove at mad mex by 10 minutes .

If we took the 71C from my house - we’d have gotten to the game
20 minutes rather than finding parking .


The bus is super convenient and cheap . $2.75 for a 3 hour window on the PRT app.
By neighbors who work downtown all take the bus from
Highland park .
Also to Oakland for games, too.

I can ride my bike to work in Lawrenceville much faster than my park and ride from 55th street .

 

[PittPharm2002]

Economic Impact of Public Transportation : BATA

Public transportation provides economic benefits to both individuals riding and the communities they are apart of. Find out how here!

www.bata.net

You’re being stupid

I took the 82 home from the Pens vs TB game and beat my friends who drove at mad mex by 10 minutes .

If we took the 71C from my house - we’d have gotten to the game
20 minutes rather than finding parking .


The bus is super convenient and cheap . $2.75 for a 3 hour window on the PRT app.
By neighbors who work downtown all take the bus from
Highland park .
Also to Oakland for games, too.

I can ride my bike to work in Lawrenceville much faster than my park and ride from 55th street .

Long way of saying -
The city is built to make it better and more livable for the people who live here .
Not for the convenience of occasional visitors driving in for an event

 

[PittPharm2002]

An airport rail system makes very good sense, but no one is coming downtown anymore. The area is getting run down (to an extent) and less commercial real estate is being utilized since Covid. This is like people arguing how to get patrons back to movie theatres and Gamestop. Technology has moved forward and it has impacted where we go and how we do it.

Commercial real estate is dumb anyway
But the theaters and restaurants are crowded downtown
Which is far more important than the formerly closed at 5pm
Downtown for decades

 

[HailtoPitt]

Do you think the city could declare eminent domain on the Hill district behind Cost to build a stadium? The idea would be that it would improve the economic vitality of the area?

Pitt couldn't even code one block of a street without people bitching up a storm.

 

[pittdan77]

Commercial real estate is dumb anyway
But the theaters and restaurants are crowded downtown
Which is far more important than the formerly closed at 5pm
Downtown for decades

Yeah, anyone who says the downtown area is dead doesn't go there. Getting a last minute table on a Saturday evening is virtually impossible unless you're willing to sit around for a few hours.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Economic Impact of Public Transportation : BATA

Public transportation provides economic benefits to both individuals riding and the communities they are apart of. Find out how here!

www.bata.net

You’re being stupid

I took the 82 home from the Pens vs TB game and beat my friends who drove at mad mex by 10 minutes .

If we took the 71C from my house - we’d have gotten to the game
20 minutes rather than finding parking .


The bus is super convenient and cheap . $2.75 for a 3 hour window on the PRT app.
By neighbors who work downtown all take the bus from
Highland park .
Also to Oakland for games, too.

I can ride my bike to work in Lawrenceville much faster than my park and ride from 55th street .

Haha you can continue to prove what a moron you are. I said show a study demonstrating that the busses through Oakland reduce vehicular traffic.

Instead you post a website (not a study) from a public transportation organization (gee wonder if they have bias) listing the benefits of public transportation….in a completely different city !

lol wow you really showed me, amazing argument

 

[HailtoPitt]

Haha you can continue to prove what a moron you are. I said show a study demonstrating that the busses through Oakland reduce vehicular traffic.

Instead you post a website (not a study) from a public transportation organization (gee wonder if they have bias) listing the benefits of public transportation….in a completely different city !

lol wow you really showed me, amazing argument

Just to be clear, you are stating that public mass transit doesn't reduce vehicle traffic?

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Just to be clear, you are stating that public mass transit doesn't reduce vehicle traffic?

I'm stating that reducing the number of vehicle traffic lanes in Oakland creates more vehicular traffic, not reduces it. Seems pretty obvious I thought, but I guess not.

One example is Forbes Avenue from Craig Street to Margret Morrison. This used to be 2 lanes outbound and car traffic moved pretty well through there. They changed it to one lane outbound, with turning lanes, bus cutouts, bike lanes, etc. One of the stated reasons for the change was to 'calm traffic'...the cars were getting through there too fast so they deliberately slowed it down and created more traffic. Driving that stretch in evening rush hour now takes much longer for cars, just sitting at lights.

Another example is Fifth Avenue inbound to downtown. They are taking a car traffic lane away for the new BRT. This will create more car traffic, it already is during construction. Adding this additional bus lane is going to cause more car traffic - longer car commute times, more pollution, etc. At first blush, this new BRT isn't going to substantially reduce the number of cars going in/out of Oakland (i.e. a large amount of people aren't going to just stop driving and start riding the bus), instead it is just going to make the commute worse for car drivers and save bus riders 60 seconds or so.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I'm stating that reducing the number of vehicle traffic lanes in Oakland creates more vehicular traffic, not reduces it. Seems pretty obvious I thought, but I guess not.

One example is Forbes Avenue from Craig Street to Margret Morrison. This used to be 2 lanes outbound and car traffic moved pretty well through there. They changed it to one lane outbound, with turning lanes, bus cutouts, bike lanes, etc. One of the stated reasons for the change was to 'calm traffic'...the cars were getting through there too fast so they deliberately slowed it down and created more traffic. Driving that stretch in evening rush hour now takes much longer for cars, just sitting at lights.

Another example is Fifth Avenue inbound to downtown. They are taking a car traffic lane away for the new BRT. This will create more car traffic, it already is during construction. Adding this additional bus lane is going to cause more car traffic - longer car commute times, more pollution, etc. At first blush, this new BRT isn't going to substantially reduce the number of cars going in/out of Oakland (i.e. a large amount of people aren't going to just stop driving and start riding the bus), instead it is just going to make the commute worse for car drivers and save bus riders 60 seconds or so.

The city isn’t building for commuters driving in
Got it , yet ?
Its build for the residents
Stay in your burb

Making your drive faster in and out isn’t what the city should ever worry about

I think the city should make all those pathways toll roads to reduce traffic

 

[Pitt_Boss]

The city isn’t building for commuters driving in
Got it , yet ?
Its build for the residents
Stay in your burb

Making your drive faster in and out isn’t what the city should ever worry about

I think the city should make all those pathways toll roads to reduce traffic

The City of Pittsburgh population is about 300k.

The population of the Greater Pittsburgh metro area that does not live in the city limits is about 2,200,000 people.

Which group do you think drives the city's economy?

 

[HailtoPitt]

The City of Pittsburgh population is about 300k.

The population of the Greater Pittsburgh metro area that does not live in the city limits is about 2,200,000 people.

Which group do you think drives the city's economy?

The City of New York's population is about 8 million.

The population of the NYC metro area is about 20 million people.

Which group do you think drives the city's economy?

 

[Pitt_Boss]

The City of New York's population is about 8 million.

The population of the NYC metro area is about 20 million people.

Which group do you think drives the city's economy?

I don't think about New York, but those numbers look a lot closer than Pittsburgh's (about 2:1 spread vs 10:1). I do notice you didn't answer the question, just deflected.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I don't think about New York, but those numbers look a lot closer than Pittsburgh's (about 2:1 spread vs 10:1). I do notice you didn't answer the question, just deflected.

I'd argue that the City drives the economy more, but works in tandem with the surrounding area.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

I'd argue that the City drives the economy more, but works in tandem with the surrounding area.

Agree, the City is the reason 2.2 million live around it. However, the City needs those 2.2 million commuting into it for jobs, shopping, concerts, ball games, etc. to survive. The City should be making it enticing for people to come in. But it's no wonder the City is struggling financially because City leadership is full of people like PittPharm that are anti-business, anti-University, anti-tourism, etc.

 

[PittPharm2002]

The City of Pittsburgh population is about 300k.

The population of the Greater Pittsburgh metro area that does not live in the city limits is about 2,200,000 people.

Which group do you think drives the city's economy?

The tax payers who live here

 

[PittPharm2002]

Agree, the City is the reason 2.2 million live around it. However, the City needs those 2.2 million commuting into it for jobs, shopping, concerts, ball games, etc. to survive. The City should be making it enticing for people to come in. But it's no wonder the City is struggling financially because City leadership is full of people like PittPharm that are anti-business, anti-University, anti-tourism, etc.

How is anything I said anti business ?
Commuters don’t create business
Simple concept
If they were so valuable those concerts and businesses would be located in those burbs and exurbs .
They aren’t
#basiceconomics

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I have said on numerous occasions here that if I lived in the city I would absolutely advocate for a robust mass transit system, and unlike most people who live in the city, I'd be willing to pay for it.

The fact that the T doesn't go to Oakland (and beyond) and the airport and the North Hills is simply evidence of how short-sighted most Pittsburgh/Allegheny County politicians have been for the last four or five decades.

They are using the Penn Station T stop again with the rest of the line under construction. It doesnt seem like it would cost a ton of money (relatively speaking) to extend that line through Lawrenceville (which would be good for CHP) across to North Oakland, maybe ending at Schenley HS. That wouldn't get you to the main part of Oakland but it would also be cheaper and less disruptive than tunneling through Uptown or putting in an elevated track.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Major concert festival coming to Hazelwood. How will these people get to and from the event? You'd think there'd be 30K-50K at this.

Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival lineup includes SZA, The Killers, Wiz Khalifa

A new music festival from the organizers of internationally known events like Lollapalooza and Bonnaroo will be rocking Pittsburgh later this year, and they just announced their lineup. Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival will be held on Sept. 7 and 8 at Hazelwood Green. The event will be...

triblive.com

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Pitt couldn't even code one block of a street without people bitching up a storm.

Pitt had the city by the cojones in 1999 or so when the Heinz field project was in jeopardy. Needed Pitt to agree to playing at Heinz to seal the deal. Should have held out until the city agreed to close Bigelow.

There was an article in the PG on Sunday about some residents wanting to make Walnut street in Shadyside pedestrian only. will be interesting to see if that ever pans out.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Major concert festival coming to Hazelwood. How will these people get to and from the event? You'd think there'd be 30K-50K at this.

Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival lineup includes SZA, The Killers, Wiz Khalifa

A new music festival from the organizers of internationally known events like Lollapalooza and Bonnaroo will be rocking Pittsburgh later this year, and they just announced their lineup. Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival will be held on Sept. 7 and 8 at Hazelwood Green. The event will be...

triblive.com

They'll just walk because all 50,000 attendees will be City of Pittsburgh residents, no one from outside the city limits will be attending. Or at least that's what the promoters are thinking, they aren't expecting to draw anyone from outside the city limits, they are having it the City because they think just City residents will make it viable. Just ask PittPharm.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They'll just walk because all 50,000 attendees will be City of Pitts burgh residents, no one from outside the city limits will be attending. Or at least that's what the promoters are thinking, they aren't expecting to draw anyone from outside the city limits. Just ask PittPharm.

Is Hazelwood supposed to be the new Star Lake? I heard it takes like 4 hours to get to Star Lake nowadays with the traffic so maybe concert attendees feel that it'll be quicker to walk to Hazelwood from the suburbs than go to Star Lake.

This event will be interesting because its going be a Pitt-level attendance right next to the Pitt campus. If Hazelwood can host a very large concert festival, you'd think it can handle a stadium.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Pitt had the city by the cojones in 1999 or so when the Heinz field project was in jeopardy. Needed Pitt to agree to playing at Heinz to seal the deal. Should have held out until the city agreed to close Bigelow.

There was an article in the PG on Sunday about some residents wanting to make Walnut street in Shadyside pedestrian only. will be interesting to see if that ever pans out.

It should be pedestrian only. Would be fantastic. Take a page from Europe's playbook and do that more often here.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

It should be pedestrian only. Would be fantastic. Take a page from Europe's playbook and do that more often here.

Duquesne did it years ago with their academic walk, but I guess since it was a street that ran through their campus only the city didn't care too much

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Is Hazelwood supposed to be the new Star Lake? I heard it takes like 4 hours to get to Star Lake nowadays with the traffic so maybe concert attendees feel that it'll be quicker to walk to Hazelwood from the suburbs than go to Star Lake.

This event will be interesting because its going be a Pitt-level attendance right next to the Pitt campus. If Hazelwood can host a very large concert festival, you'd think it can handle a stadium.

I hope this concert is well-attended because it will be hugely insightful. First of all, I don't know where all the cars will park back there. I mean there is parking but not that much paved parking. There is plenty of green spaces I guess they can put cars in, so similar to Star Lake that way. Traffic...I don't know man. They can use police and/or flashing yellow lights on 2nd avenue to keep things moving on the main drag but getting out of Hazelwood Glen area itself is limited egress. And even if you get cars flowing on 2nd Avenue, they either are going across the Glenwood Bridge and running right into a series of lights on the other side or heading towards Big Jim's area (most cars probably going this way get to parkway) and running into some intersections that don't move so well during rush hour.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I hope this concert is well-attended because it will be hugely insightful. First of all, I don't know where all the cars will park back there. I mean there is parking but not that much paved parking. There is plenty of green spaces I guess they can put cars in, so similar to Star Lake that way. Traffic...I don't know man. They can use police and/or flashing yellow lights on 2nd avenue to keep things moving on the main drag but getting out of Hazelwood Glen area itself is limited egress. And even if you get cars flowing on 2nd Avenue, they either are going across the Glenwood Bridge and running right into a series of lights on the other side or heading towards Big Jim's area (most cars probably going this way get to parkway) and running into some intersections that don't move so well during rush hour.

I used to take those back streets up the hill to avoid 2nd Avenue. Reminded me of The Wire. I mean traffic cant be too dissimilar than rush hour though. People eventually do get home. I dont understand the Star Lake congestion though because it seems like that just started after it being there for 30 years.

 

[Pitt_Boss]

Welp, guess you can't have a music festival at Hazelwood Glen:

Pittsburgh's new Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival suddenly canceled; tickets to be refunded

A new music festival in the works for Pittsburgh later this year has suddenly been canceled.

www.cbsnews.com

Some are calling this the Fyre Festival of Pittsburgh. At least PittPharm will be happy, no visitors coming into the City spending money.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Welp, guess you can't have a music festival at Hazelwood Glen:

Pittsburgh's new Sudden Little Thrills Music Festival suddenly canceled; tickets to be refunded

A new music festival in the works for Pittsburgh later this year has suddenly been canceled.

www.cbsnews.com

Some are calling this the Fyre Festival of Pittsburgh. At least PittPharm will be happy, no visitors coming into the City spending money.

This whole thing came out of nowhere. I was actually looking forward to seeing how Hazelwood would handle it. My guess is these promoters saw a better opportunity in Wheeling.

 

[HailtoPitt]

For those of you who worry about Oakland traffic, a big event at this Hazelwood site would be a traffic disaster of epic proportions.