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- Thread starter gary2
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You are arguing with the biggest flamer on the board.
“I didn’t mention Stallings much the last 2 Year’s” because he had to wait for Pitt to fire him and then back him. Just like he did with Chryst. He is a sad person
Also thanks for talking about how Capel helped elevate VCU. He left the program in a stronger place. I'd be totally happy if he did the same here.
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Dixon recruited a lot of really solid kids ranked 75-150. Those kids hung around for four years and got really good as seniors. That recipe worked pretty damn well. I also think it's a realistic goal for Pitt hoops. My hope is that Capel can recreate that but have more success adding an elite guy here or there than can add that extra bit that always seemed lacking from Dixon teams.
The reason it worked for Dixon at first is because it was the Big East. Pitt would slow the clock down and be physical which would keep the more talented teams from getting into a rythem. The ACC refs would call penalties a plenty if Pitt tried that style now in the ACC. That was part of the problem that ran Dixon out of town. He couldn't bring in the next level talent, and the "coach em up" guys got boat raced because the ACC doesn' t allow that physical play.
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QUOTE="Ski11585, post: 2283264, member: 2956"]Dixon recruited a lot of really solid kids ranked 75-150. Those kids hung around for four years and got really good as seniors. That recipe worked pretty damn well. I also think it's a realistic goal for Pitt hoops. My hope is that Capel can recreate that but have more success adding an elite guy here or there than can add that extra bit that always seemed lacking from Dixon teams.[/QUOTE]
promt
QUOTE="Ski11585, post: 2283264, member: 2956"]Dixon recruited a lot of really solid kids ranked 75-150. Those kids hung around for four years and got really good as seniors. That recipe worked pretty damn well. I also think it's a realistic goal for Pitt hoops. My hope is that Capel can recreate that but have more success adding an elite guy here or there than can add that extra bit that always seemed lacking from Dixon teams.[/QUOTE]
UVA does the same thing that we used to and has done very well in the ACC.
Yeah we've had that discussion before. Conference change, assistant coach changes, rules changes (including shorter shot clock by the way), recruiting landscape changes (basketball academies, AAU seasons, decline of old eastern Catholic schools), recruiting geography changes, etc. A lot of things went wrong in the late Dixon years, not just one factor. I think Capel is at least familiar with the new landscape because Duke lives in that world effectively. Who knows if it works out, but I am excited.
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Just edited my post. Weird considering I've said his name out loud about three times a day since he was hired. Hope you feel like you've done your good deed for the day, sir!
Maybe he's been fired a few times himself and is feeling empathy?
Maybe he could, but I think that was a different animal in that BE and Capel certainly has not proved he can win with that. If there is reason to look at Capel's resume and be enthused about his future at Pitt, it relies almost exclusively on his ability to recruit at an elite level and how he turned Blake Griffin into an Elite 8. Outside of that, his resume is not very good. He has never proven he can have equal or lesser talent and win.
He took VCU to their first NCAA tournament in eight years in his second season, when he was only 28 years old. I am not sure that was all because of superior talent? Did VCU really have a built in talent edge already in the Colonial? In the seven previous seasons to him in the CAA, they did not win their conference regular season so I wouldn't assume he inherited more talent than everyone else. I could be wrong though. He was 50-22 in conference there.
The last two years at Oklahoma are the serious blemish.
I agree on Stallings, but for Capel, he really didn't do much elevating at VCU. They were essentially the exact same level as when he took over. The year before he got there they were 21-11 (11-7). The year he left they were 19-10 (11-7). He had 1 season with a better overall record and an NCAAT bid. Now, that doesn't mean he didn't do a fine job there (especially considering it was his first HC job and he was 27) but it wasn't a big success, either.
The program had bounced back under McCarthy and was 21-11 the year before Capel took over HC duties. McCarthy got to 21-11 in 4 years after they were 9-19 the year before he got there and Capel was part of that process, of course, but not HC until 2002. But, heck, give him credit there and it still wasn't a special run or anything proving he can do more with less or equal talent. I'm not saying he can't, but his resume lynchpin is recruiting at a high level. If that isn't the expectation and bar, I doubt it is going to work out very well.
I disagree. He elevated them with his recruiting and by instilling a change in culture which was sorely needed, both of which allowed the team that Anthony Grant inherited to reach new heights. Before Jeff Capel, VCU had one period of sustained success in the mid 80s under JD Barnett. Between his departure and Capel's arrival, they had only made postseason tournaments 3 times (2 NITs + 1 NCAAT) in 17 seasons. Capel made 2 postseason tournaments in 4 years (1 NIT + 1 NCAAT). Following that, they had a run of 11 consecutive postseason tournaments that was only snapped last year. There's no doubt that he elevated the program, he was simply hired away before he could really enjoy the fruits of his work.
There is absolutely doubt. They were 21-11 (11-7) the year before he took over. They were 19-10 (11-7) when he left for OU. I don't think his job would have been looked at better or worse if McCarthy would have won that one more game (the conference championship they instead lost) in 2001-02. McCarthy brought VCU back and Capel helped with that as an assistant and then certainly as HC, but he didn't do a transformative job. Because of how mid majors work in single bid leagues you can't completely dismiss or reward a HC over his competition for winning that one more game.
6 of McCarthy's 7 top scorers were juniors or seniors (and the one who wasn't got dismissed by Capel as soon as he took over). He had one decent year at the end of his tenure, but that team was only going to achieve so much. They needed better recruiting if they were going to get over that hump and Capel provided it. We'll just have to agree to disagree if you still see it differently as I don't particularly feel like discussing VCU basketball any more than I already have.
I don't understand your point or contention against McCarthy. He recruited his whole team and took them from 9-19 to 21-11. He elevated the program. They were one win away from being in the NCAAT. I don't think that loss or a win would have changed his tenure that much. Capel did a fine job at VCU, but he didn't inherit a down on their luck program. They were 21-11 the year before he took over. They had one (out of 4) season under Capel with a better record. He didn't do a bad job. He didn't do a great job, which suggests he can win if he is at a talent disadvantage. At OU he was successful when he had Blake Griffin. He was not successful when he didn't have Blake Griffin. All signs point to him needing to recruiting very, very well in order to compete at the top of the ACC.
Whatever he did at VCU was good enough to get Oklahoma to hire him.
I think you discount him as a coach a bit, and arent accounting for likely growth. He was really young during his two head coaching stints, has to have learned from his mistakes, and did a seven year graduate stint at the Harvard of college hoops under coach K.
I do agree that his paradigm is based on getting talent, he had the next wave in place at oklahoma, but his next in line big man violated out, and things rolled up on him.
Better chance than not, hes a better coach now than then. And, honestly, where things are now, a steal for the program.
Here is a list of all the teams that competed at the top of the ACC that did not recruit very well:
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This hire was probably the best hire Pitt could’ve made , if you don’t think so name me the guy who would’ve accepted the job that would be better. He’s been very successful recruiting the best players in the country against other elite programs and he’s had the benefit of being Coach K right hand man . Too bad they didn’t hire him two yrs ago !
No, I mentioned him being young and the possibility he learned a lot from K and may be leaps and bounds better, but based on his resume that is all hope and imo should not be expectation.
Correct. It isn't going to be accomplished with a roster of 100-200 ranked recruits.
I’m anticipating a roster that includes at least a couple of top 50-75 . This guy can recruit .
I counted 11 undecided players in the Top 150 https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018. If Capel can get one or two of them in his first year, it would be great!
The fact that he has been Duke's top assistant and sat next to Coach K for all those years and recruited high level players there actually is a part of his resume.
The question is how important a part of his resume is it.
Right, but he was an assistant and not the HC. The fact that when he coached those same group of players they didn't do well would be part of the equation, too.
I think Capel can be successful here, but based on his resume, the only realistic way someone could believe it is achievable is by him recruiting better than we ever have and to get top ACC talent throughout the roster.
I think he will have to have, at least, that plus a lot of talent in the 75-125/150 range and I believe he can get it done.
The same can be said for everyone whose ever been promoted to be the head man / women in every profession . Not every sidekick makes a great leader , but I feel pretty good about this hire .
I doubt we’ll be seeing Pitt beat out Duke and Kentucky for recruits , but I feel Pitt will be in the conversation for some very good players and will get their share .
Well that's why I said that the question is how important that part of his resume is. Some may think it's really important. Some may think it's not that important at all. Opinions vary. But at this point it's all just opinions.
