Stallings officially set this program back 7 seasons…

[CaptainMurphy]

Complete Bull. He had Artis and Young and Cam Johnson and Sheldon Jeter and he finished with a losing record. The players hated him. They tuned him out. If he had 5 or 6 years the basketball program wouldn't be able to beat division 3 schools and there would be 200 people on avg going to the Pete for games. Unless it was Duke when they'd bring thousands of their fans. Not sure what is up with your love affair of Stallings.

Artis and Young were locker room malcontents that drove the whole team downhill. They could play very well (if inconsistent) but I think they were a net negative.

Funny thing about Jeter is he seemed to get along with Stallings pretty well here at Pitt. I know Stallings apologized to him for the transfer stuff.

I’m no KS fan. He did a bad job. But I think you’d have been hard pressed to find a coach who could have won with the crew he inherited. Problem is he couldn’t recruit so we weren’t ever going to get much better.

 

[TD_6082]

Complete Bull. He had Artis and Young and Cam Johnson and Sheldon Jeter and he finished with a losing record. The players hated him. They tuned him out. If he had 5 or 6 years the basketball program wouldn't be able to beat division 3 schools and there would be 200 people on avg going to the Pete for games. Unless it was Duke when they'd bring thousands of their fans. Not sure what is up with your love affair of Stallings.

Key words:. The players hated him. They tuned him out. You do understand that after 5 or 6 years, the roster would be full of players HE recruited? He's a pretty demanding, straight foward coach. Guys that sign with him know what they are getting into, and most really like and respect him.

There is no love affair. I lived in Nashville when he coached at Vandy. He did a really good job at a place that is really hard to win at.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Artis and Young were locker room malcontents that drove the whole team downhill. They could play very well (if inconsistent) but I think they were a net negative.

Funny thing about Jeter is he seemed to get along with Stallings pretty well here at Pitt. I know Stallings apologized to him for the transfer stuff.

I’m no KS fan. He did a bad job. But I think you’d have been hard pressed to find a coach who could have won with the crew he inherited. Problem is he couldn’t recruit so we weren’t ever going to get much better.

Jamie Dixon went to the tournament with them.

Try harder

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Jamie Dixon went to the tournament with them.

Try harder

That team also had James Robinson. The problem wasn’t Artis and Young as members of the team. It was Artis and Young as the supposed veteran leadership, on and off the court. Are they a better team that season if JD sticks around? Probably. Are they a tournament team? I’d say unlikely.

I’m not absolving KS of anything. I’m just saying any coach was going to have issues with that team. The problem with KS was that he was probably never going to turn it around.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

But TD, Stallings at Vanderbilt tried. Good fit, good academic school where he'd do his yelling thing and it was fine. Stallings at Pitt was ready to retire. Slept during recruiting visits.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Jamie Dixon went to the tournament with them.

Try harder

I can forgive not making the tournament with that team in Stallings first year. But to finish 4-14 in the ACC, and to lose at home by 50 points in a game that was so bad Stallings intentionally got himself thrown out is inexcusable. Add in the fact that he made no attempt to bring in any semblance of a point guard which was desperately needed and you can definitely make the case that Stallings mailed it in. Especially with a team that had Johnson, Luther, Young, etc.

I like most of TD's takes, but his blind loyalty to the Vandy coaching tree of Stallings & Franklin is a little over the top

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I can forgive not making the tournament with that team in Stallings first year. But to finish 4-14 in the ACC, and to lose at home by 50 points in a game that was so bad Stallings intentionally got himself thrown out is inexcusable. Add in the fact that he made no attempt to bring in any semblance of a point guard which was desperately needed and you can definitely make the case that Stallings mailed it in. Especially with a team that had Johnson, Luther, Young, etc.

I like most of TD's takes, but his blind loyalty to the Vandy coaching tree of Stallings & Franklin is a little over the top

Yep. We were going to suck, no matter who the coach was. The trajectory was always going to be down for a few years. Stallings just made it much worse.

 

[PittPoker]

Yep. We were going to suck, no matter who the coach was. The trajectory was always going to be down for a few years. Stallings just made it much worse.

No we weren't

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Yep. We were going to suck, no matter who the coach was. The trajectory was always going to be down for a few years. Stallings just made it much worse.

To act like Jamie Dixon was all of a sudden going to turn onto a 14-16 coach is utterly absurd

 

[CaptainMurphy]

To act like Jamie Dixon was all of a sudden going to turn onto a 14-16 coach is utterly absurd

With what we had after he left and where we were with recruiting, I don’t think we were making the tournament for a few years. Would we have ever gone winless in conference? Pretty unlikely. Would we have been bad for a few years? I think so.

Its not unreasonable to say that and to also say that the Stallings hire was a very bad one.

 

[TD_6082]

To act like Jamie Dixon was all of a sudden going to turn onto a 14-16 coach is utterly absurd

Nobody is acting like Dixon was going to turn into a 14-16 coach. Dixon's problem was that his last 5 years were mediocre, and his roster and recruiting have every reason to believe that things would get worse.

 

[TD_6082]

No we weren't

Yes. They were. The roster and recruiting don't lie.

Besides, they Pitt wasn't very good his last 5 years.

 

[TD_6082]

I can forgive not making the tournament with that team in Stallings first year. But to finish 4-14 in the ACC, and to lose at home by 50 points in a game that was so bad Stallings intentionally got himself thrown out is inexcusable. Add in the fact that he made no attempt to bring in any semblance of a point guard which was desperately needed and you can definitely make the case that Stallings mailed it in. Especially with a team that had Johnson, Luther, Young, etc.

I like most of TD's takes, but his blind loyalty to the Vandy coaching tree of Stallings & Franklin is a little over the top

I'm sure he mailed it in after Barnes left. It was obvious he wasn't going to be around long. That's just human nature.
Why bust your ass for a school that doesn't want and is going to send you packing in a few months?

Franklin has like 3 or 4 11 win seasons at PSU. Just won a Rose Bowl. The 24-15 record in 3 years at Vanderbilt was freaking incredible. It's mind-blowing how people try to throw water on that achievement.

And I'll sheep it up for Tim Corbin too! 👍

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Nobody is acting like Dixon was going to turn into a 14-16 coach. Dixon's problem was that his last 5 years were mediocre, and his roster and recruiting have every reason to believe that things would get worse.

Just stop

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Yes. They were. The roster and recruiting don't lie.

Besides, they Pitt wasn't very good his last 5 years.

The 2013 and 2014 teams were both quite good that if they would have used the NET back then might have been too 4 seeds

 

[Dointhatrag]

Jamie's last five seasons emulate the big 10. Load up on cupcake wins to start the year, play the RPI game, get 20+ wins. Get a higher seed because of wins/RPI. Make Tournament. Lose to a lower seeded team because you were over valued.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Jamie's last five seasons emulate the big 10. Load up on cupcake wins to start the year, play the RPI game, get 20+ wins. Get a higher seed because of wins/RPI. Make Tournament. Lose to a lower seeded team because you were over valued.

Except that is not at all what happened. Why do people constantly feel the need to lie about his tenure here?

 

[TD_6082]

Except that is not at all what happened. Why do people constantly feel the need to lie about his tenure here?

Jamie's conference record at Pitt was .500 in his last 5 years. His last 5 teams at Pitt averaged over 12 losses a season. He won ONE NCAA Tournament game his last 5 years. The program had significantly declined from where it was from 2001-2011. There were no signs that anything was going to improve in the short term.

Jamie has 2 NCAA Tournament wins in his last 11 years of coaching. He's only qualified for the NCAA Tourney 5 of those 11 years.

Anybody else think that's a bit of a problem?

 

[Franb]

With what we had after he left and where we were with recruiting, I don’t think we were making the tournament for a few years. Would we have ever gone winless in conference? Pretty unlikely. Would we have been bad for a few years? I think so.

Its not unreasonable to say that and to also say that the Stallings hire was a very bad one.

What we had when he left was a team that returned 6 of its top 7 players, from a team that was a 10-seed in the NCAA tournament. And that team turned into a team that finished 14th in the ACC, under Stallings. Dixon had them playing well enough to make the NCAA tournament, and there is no reason to think that he could not have done it again.

 

[TD_6082]

What we had when he left was a team that returned 6 of its top 7 players, from a team that was a 10-seed in the NCAA tournament. And that team turned into a team that finished 14th in the ACC, under Stallings. Dixon had them playing well enough to make the NCAA tournament, and there is no reason to think that he could not have done it again.

You're going to take a 10 seed, and take away a PG that finished the as the ACC leader in career assist-to-turnover ratio, and still make the NCAAs with Chris Jones or Justice Kithkart?

Don't think so.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You're going to take a 10 seed, and take away a PG that finished the as the ACC leader in career assist-to-turnover ratio, and still make the NCAAs with Chris Jones or Justice Kithkart?

Don't think so.

Well you could always try to recruit a point guard.

I know that wasn't something that the new guy had any interest in, but maybe the old guy would have at least tried?

 

[TD_6082]

Well you could always try to recruit a point guard.

I know that wasn't something that the new guy had any interest in, but maybe the old guy would have at least tried?

Absolutely.

But Robinson was a 4 year starter. It was no big mystery when he was going to graduate. Jamie had 4 years and the best he could come up with was CB & Justice?

That pretty much sums up where Pitt hoops was at. Not to mention the previous 5 years was a mediocre, boring, borderline unwatchable product.

 

[PittPoker]

You're going to take a 10 seed, and take away a PG that finished the as the ACC leader in career assist-to-turnover ratio, and still make the NCAAs with Chris Jones or Justice Kithkart?

Don't think so.

Awful take considering we had everyone else back.

 

[Franb]

You're going to take a 10 seed, and take away a PG that finished the as the ACC leader in career assist-to-turnover ratio, and still make the NCAAs with Chris Jones or Justice Kithkart?

Don't think so.

The biggest difference between those 2 teams was not the point guards, it was the coaches. We will never know what Dixon would have done with that team, but we know what he did with it the year before.

 

[TD_6082]

Awful take considering we had everyone else back.

No it isn't. Everyone back on a mediocre 10 seed. You lost a PG and a very good one. And they really didn't replace him.

 

[TD_6082]

The biggest difference between those 2 teams was not the point guards, it was the coaches. We will never know what Dixon would have done with that team, but we know what he did with it the year before.

The ACC leader in career assist to turnover ratio replaced by Chris Jones?

That's way too much for any coach to overcome.

And when your team is a 10 seed and you lose the first round in the tourney, it means your team just isn't very good.

 

[Franb]

The ACC leader in career assist to turnover ratio replaced by Chris Jones?

That's way too much for any coach to overcome.

And when your team is a 10 seed and you lose the first round in the tourney, it means your team just isn't very good.

A 10 seed means that your team is one of the top 40 teams in the country. That is a lot better than "isn't very good."

 

[TD_6082]

A 10 seed means that your team is one of the top 40 teams in the country. That is a lot better than "isn't very good."

Disagree. If you are a 10 seed from a P6 hoops conference, them you really aren't very good.

 

[Fredact]

I stumbled upon this really cool site that has lots of good college basketball information (e.g. it has all the conference tournament brackets, predictions for the conference tournaments, as well as their own league award winners, etc. ) One cool thing, is they count down the teams still eligible for the National Championship (e.g 2 A-Sun teams went out tonight). But one funny thing they have, is an award for the worst team in D1, called the Cenenary Award, as they were terrible in 2010-11, and a second award, for the worst power conference team. That one is called, you guessed it, the Stallings Award: http://hoopshd.com/centenary-award/

 

[TD_6082]

I stumbled upon this really cool site that has lots of good college basketball information (e.g. it has all the conference tournament brackets, predictions for the conference tournaments, as well as their own league award winners, etc. ) One cool thing, is they count down the teams still eligible for the National Championship (e.g 2 A-Sun teams went out tonight). But one funny thing they have, is an award for the worst team in D1, called the Cenenary Award, as they were terrible in 2010-11, and a second award, for the worst power conference team. That one is called, you guessed it, the Stallings Award: http://hoopshd.com/centenary-award/

Oh wow. 4 friends that combined their money together and got a subscription to WordPress. I'm impressed.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

This thread and it’s strange love for Stallings and stubbornness to not admit that years like this and most of Ben/Jamie’s tenure are outliers that are almost impossible to be duplicated here (and at TCU who has had its most successful stretch of hoops ever under Dixon in the biggest conference they’ve been in) is staggering. It’s like some people are just so woefully ignorant in college hoops and PITT’s overall place in it they’ll just continue to spout the same things over and over.

The funniest part about ^ what I just said is he will die on the Narduzzi hill and understand the 11 win ACC title win was an outlier. Like Pitt hoops is some special entity and football isn’t?

 

[Ski11585]

This thread and it’s strange love for Stallings and stubbornness to not admit that years like this and most of Ben/Jamie’s tenure are outliers that are almost impossible to be duplicated here (and at TCU who has had its most successful stretch of hoops ever under Dixon in the biggest conference they’ve been in) is staggering. It’s like some people are just so woefully ignorant in college hoops and PITT’s overall place in it they’ll just continue to spout the same things over and over.

I would have been fascinated to see what Dixon would have done with a supportive AD like Lyke and the investment in the program Capel and Duzz have received.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I would have been fascinated to see what Dixon would have done with a supportive AD like Lyke and the investment in the program Capel and Duzz have received.

I’ve said it many times, and it’s not to fault or Capel at all or minimize this years’ success, but Jamie had half the assistant salary budget, no idea on the regular budget but I think Capel pretty much spends whatever he wants, the correct Pitt colors so cooler uniforms to recruit with, the zoo in the correct place, the Pete with MAJOR upgrades (the locker room was worse than HS’, it was like an army barracks) and the full support of the AD. Lyke and Jamie would’ve gotten together famously with all that support.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Disagree. If you are a 10 seed from a P6 hoops conference, them you really aren't very good.

You are absolutely ridiculous

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Oh wow. 4 friends that combined their money together and got a subscription to WordPress. I'm impressed.

Are you Kevin’s nephew? Are you Jacob stallings?

Dude, he sucked. He didn’t get a raw deal. For the life of me I can’t figure out why you think he was a great coach?

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I’ve said it many times, and it’s not to fault or Capel at all or minimize this years’ success, but Jamie had half the assistant salary budget, no idea on the regular budget but I think Capel pretty much spends whatever he wants, the correct Pitt colors so cooler uniforms to recruit with, the zoo in the correct place, the Pete with MAJOR upgrades (the locker room was worse than HS’, it was like an army barracks) and the full support of the AD. Lyke and Jamie would’ve gotten together famously with all that support.

This thread and it’s strange love for Stallings and stubbornness to not admit that years like this and most of Ben/Jamie’s tenure are outliers that are almost impossible to be duplicated here (and at TCU who has had its most successful stretch of hoops ever under Dixon in the biggest conference they’ve been in) is staggering. It’s like some people are just so woefully ignorant in college hoops and PITT’s overall place in it they’ll just continue to spout the same things over and over.

The funniest part about ^ what I just said is he will die on the Narduzzi hill and understand the 11 win ACC title win was an outlier. Like Pitt hoops is some special entity and football isn’t?

What’s also funny is he loves what stallings did at vandy and bashes Dixon’s last five years here as bad. Also if you do last four years or last six years that argument loses a lot of weight because of the one extreme outlier in Dixon’s tenure here.

 

[PittPoker]

I would have been fascinated to see what Dixon would have done with a supportive AD like Lyke and the investment in the program Capel and Duzz have received.

He wouldn't have left first of all.

 

[TD_6082]

What’s also funny is he loves what stallings did at vandy and bashes Dixon’s last five years here as bad. Also if you do last four years or last six years that argument loses a lot of weight because of the one extreme outlier in Dixon’s tenure here.

Apples and oranges. What has Vandy done since Stallings left?

Also, comparing Vandy & Pitt is just silly. If Pitt had a consensus top 5 player in their backyard, do you think he would be denied admission if he met NCAA requirements? I highly doubt it. That actually happened at Vanderbilt.

You do realize Jamie took over a program that had finished with the best record in the Big East two years in a row, back to back Top 10 rankings, and back to back Sweet 16 appearances? Pitt was nowhere close to this level anytime in Jamie's last 5 years.

 

[TD_6082]

Are you Kevin’s nephew? Are you Jacob stallings?

Dude, he sucked. He didn’t get a raw deal. For the life of me I can’t figure out why you think he was a great coach?

Never said he was a great coach. Never said that at all.