Big Ben became a franchise/Hall of Fame qb, stat wise, AFTER Cowher left. Pittsburgh made it a point to give Big Ben quality wide receivers to throw to, and later an offensive line to protect him. But the defense suffered.
Steelers classic choke job on the road
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Big Ben became a franchise/Hall of Fame qb, stat wise, AFTER Cowher left. Pittsburgh made it a point to give Big Ben quality wide receivers to throw to, and later an offensive line to protect him. But the defense suffered.
You’re missing the point. They had the 8th ranked passing attack that year with Neil freaking O’Donnell. Cowher would not have struggled offensively with Ben in his prime.
Cowher I believe wanted to draft a lineman instead of a QB but Dan Rooney suggested the need for a QB. Before that, Cowher was said to have wanted to acquire Drew brees from San Diego. The bottom line is, once he got his QB, he cleared the super bowl hurdle. It’s like if Jamie Dixon would have had that go to guard in the ncaa tourney, we wouldn’t have underachieved every single year in the tourney. If Ben doesn’t go through a windshield and have some challenges then, and Cowher had stayed, I think Cowher had won a couple more.
Oh and one other thing. You mention things that bailed out Cowher. How about things that went against him. Like spygate, and special teams TDs vs New England in championship games because referees inexplicably put the ball on the wrong hash marks. Referees impact games. It happens all the time.
Souf needs to realize Tomlin is Tubby Smith. Came to Kentucky with Pitino's players and won a NC. Then people realized he would never win a NC again because his coaching wasn't that great. Tomlin won a Super Bowl with Cowher's players, got to another one still with a bunch of Cowher's players and since then has been awful in the playoffs. Hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl in 8 years and counting. Drafting of defensive players blows chunks. And his M.O. now is to underachieve and lose games to really bad teams. It's time to move on from him.
Oh I agree about New England and their cheating (spygate). But Cowher said everyone did it and excused New England for it.
A big part of me hates when people say he won a super bowl with Cowhers players. Winning the super bowl is a big deal and should not be minimized. But it’s what he has done in the large body of work afterward that should be weighted heavily.
If you find tomlin disappointing you must have found cowher disappointing- that only stands to reason
So/ you likewise don’t have an answer
Lots of words to say you don’t know
He is judged relatively to his peers.
Like I asked- who are the best coaches in the Nfl to you?
im not a tomlin apologist but I hate that argument too. Coach X won with "former coach's players." Tomlin won a super bowl with steelers, plain and simple.
Maybe that argument holds a tiny bit of water in college where a coach is responsible for recruiting and signing them but even that argument still annoys me..
I clearly stated my thoughts on Cowher. How about answering my question? Is Tomlin disappointing?
Well- that’s why I’m asking you for which coaches you think are outstanding in the nfl.
If you take umbrage with that adjective- you should likely have quite a few ahead of him
Asking the Steelers to win without any running backs is one thing. Asking them to win without their All Pro qb for the majority of the 2nd half and with no field goal kicker is really ridiculous. Obviously the people who are outraged and want Tomlin fired are people who never liked him, and just wait for something to go wrong with Pittsburgh to publicly vent.
I also want someone to acknowledge the key injuries (Antonio Brown, LeVeon Bell, Ryan Shazier) Pittsburgh suffered during their playoff runs from 2014-2017. You can't say on one hand that Pittsburgh should win titles with all the talent they have then discount the injuries to their All Pro players that caused them to miss playoff games in each of those seasons.
I also want someone to acknowledge the key injuries (Antonio Brown, LeVeon Bell, Ryan Shazier) Pittsburgh suffered during their playoff runs from 2014-2017. You can't say on one hand that Pittsburgh should win titles with all the talent they have then discount the injuries to their All Pro players that caused them to miss playoff games in each of those seasons.
These debates on coaches can be seemingly never-ending. A coach can be very successful overall like Tomlin/McCarthy/John Harbaugh are, but when they go so long without a championship, underachieve with top talent, drive you crazy with choke jobs and losing games they shouldn't lose... the debates will always come up.
Belichick is clearly in a tier of his own, but in terms of that next tier... I guess Tomlin, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Harbaugh... guys that have been around for some time. Now obviously you then got guys that are more potential "up and comers" like McVay, Nagy, Anthony Lynn... but with such a small sample size, it's still too early to tell what they'll be all about.
Belichick is clearly in a tier of his own, but in terms of that next tier... I guess Tomlin, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Harbaugh... guys that have been around for some time. Now obviously you then got guys that are more potential "up and comers" like McVay, Nagy, Anthony Lynn... but with such a small sample size, it's still too early to tell what they'll be all about.
Goes to show how the margin for error in this league is razor thin. Belichick is lucky his opponents on the other side made some ridiculous gaffes. And hell, even their earlier super bowl W's were narrow.
A tweet:
"Wacky NFL -- The Steelers are 4 plays away from being 11-2. They are also 3 plays away from 5-8"
I’m asking if he has been disappointing to you?
And I’m also asking if he’s outstanding in your eyes. This isn’t difficult.
And as far as outstanding coaches in the league, I’d say there is one. And given that there are no others, it’s doesnt mean that Tomlin is by default.
Again, I’ll say this. The guy could win his next 7 games and we can look back at this thread and chuckle. Let’s see what happens.
I just don’t understand why some people can’t admit that the guy is not great. And he’s not outstanding. But if he regains control of this team and wins a title, then he just might be.
This is very true. And it’s why you can’t be 0 for your last 8 challenges, and you can’t be regarded as the worst time management coach in the league. These little things matter. Tomlin defies logic in this two areas.
The straw man argument that people who think tomlin is a very good coach - doesn’t mean they think he’s flawless- is silly.
People made the same stupid arguments about Dixon.
I don’t get disappointed about pro coaches , especially ones with a championship
The #Steelers rank 16th in the 32-team NFL in points against, and the team has allowed more than a third of those points in the fourth quarter of games this season
Not sure but #32 is Tomlin. And it’s not even close. He...defies...logic...
It’s not a straw man argument. All you had to do is bring yourself to admit that he has faults and that he’s not great. Yet it’s like pulling teeth.
So you think he’s very good? That’s reasonable. Let’s see if he can get this team loaded with stars into the playoffs.
Mike, Mike, Mike what have you done for the Steelers today.
Overall body of work is mostly comprised of history.
Good performance in the past shouldn't / doesn't earn a person a paycheck today especially in sports.
Mike, Mike, Mike wake up the Steelers are trending down and have a tough stretch of games ahead of them!
Grunting answers at your press conferences is getting old.
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams
This explains why you accept year after year of falling short of expectations.
When is the last time Tomlin and the Steelers were AFC champs and in a Superbowl ?
Giving games away, three game losing streak, can't beat a two win team, seems like the team is in disarray and in danger of not making the play-offs.
What have you done for the Steelers today Mike, Mike, Mike?
Tomlin beats a lot of bad teams and has trouble with winning when winning counts.
Except for Oakland in Oakland he hasn't done well there.
If he looked like he had a handle on things fine, but it doesn't look like that to me!
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Im not a Tomlin hater like some but just like the end of JDs tenure you have to be concerned with the way the team is trending, specifically..........
1. The defense falling off and playing like hot garbage as the games become more critical.
2. Wasted draft picks
3. Their record against underdogs on the road.
4. wasted opportunities with a franchise QB. Not getting past the jags last year was inexcusable and their record this year is awful.
As I said, Im not advocating firing him as I do think he does some things well. However, there has to be significant changes on D and special teams this off season or next year may be his last.......
1. The defense falling off and playing like hot garbage as the games become more critical.
2. Wasted draft picks
3. Their record against underdogs on the road.
4. wasted opportunities with a franchise QB. Not getting past the jags last year was inexcusable and their record this year is awful.
As I said, Im not advocating firing him as I do think he does some things well. However, there has to be significant changes on D and special teams this off season or next year may be his last.......
Who is saying Tomlin isn't without faults?
Meanwhile, please list the coaches better than Tomlin.
On your arbitrary list-
Sure
What’s it called when you cling to invented things to defend a conclusion you already made?
Fake news?
I’m a guy watching a tv show.
What do my expectations have to do with how the Steelers run their organization?
I don’t have expectations because I have nothing invested other than watching entertainment.
Why do you feel your expectations, are important?
Vote with your feet and wallet.
I’m not going to list coaches. That’s not the point of the discussion. The discussion is whether he’s great or outstanding. I contend that he is neither. The other coaches in the league have nothing to do with it. They coach other teams under different circumstances. It’s impossible to compare apples to oranges. In tomlin’s circumstance, he won a super bowl and got to another in his first 4 years. That’s very good. Since then, he’s been just good. So looking at his head coaching career, he falls somewhere between good and very good. I just don’t understand why that is bothersome to people.
With this talented team that many expected to compete for a championship, he may miss the playoffs entirely, or he may turn things around and meet the expectations that many had. At the end of the year, his pendulum will swing in one direction or another. Right now people are reacting to a bad few weeks that he has had.
That’s just dumb. Just like his challenges and his clock management.
Of course it’s part of the conversation.
You clearly don’t think he’s a good enough coach-
So the natural follow up is what coaches are good enough and better?
You keep asking that question. At this point, it is known what Tomlin can give you, flashes of brilliance with overall disappointment. 12 years should be enough time in the NFL to figure out that perhaps a change is necessary. Three things can happen:
A) Stick with Tomlin and the status quo and we will be frustrated every January
B) Hire someone who ultimately flames out and try again
C) Hire the next Chuck Noll who kniows each and every button to push and become a modern day Dynasty
Ultimately, to answer your question, we don’t know who is a better coach than Tomlin. We can reasonably predict however that he’s not going to win another Super Bowl. I guess we could hang our hats on the fact that he hasn’t had a losing season but is that good enough?
I’m not going to tell you what to think but there’s certainly room for discussion.
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