Steelers Need to sign Hollderman

[PittPharm2002]

I'm saying that people can be smart in their niche without being someone that people would consider smart overall. And that other people can, on a regular basis, say things that are so dumb that it's hard to imagine any circumstance that anyone would consider them smart.

You, on the other hand, appear to think that Mike Tomlin is really smart, and yet too insecure (or something) to hire other smart people to work with him.

I mean the bar is very low for football players and coaches for intelligence
People think Aaron Rodgers is smart , despite all the evidence to the contrary .

I think Tomlin is clever and obviously a people person who is very good at motivating people .
I mean , did anyone think Bill Cowher is smart ? He has the same strengths Tomlin has - Tomlin is just better are conveying concepts in interesting ways .

 

[PittPharm2002]

Tomlin is smart. We see everyday that smart people don’t always use the best judgement.

Everyone has blind spots.
Since I had to have multiple conversations with doctors and nurses today about improving a med safety process for compliance -
And despite my inclination to dig and (because I’m right ) - I heard them out , made a change to 1 specific med in 2 clinics to delay the implementation .

Maybe the therapy is working

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Yeah...I think Mike Tomlin is intelligent - now your putting a wrapper around it by saying "really smart" - and if you can't determine that he's not smart, how can you determine that he's insecure...I'll wait.

It's not me whose saying that he's insecure. I am trying to come up with a reason why you think that someone who is intelligent would do something so dumb, and over an extended period of time, and the best thing I can come up with is that YOU think he's insecure.

If you think that he is intelligent and yet you think he makes bad hires, multiple times over an extended time period, because he doesn't want to hire smart people to work for him, then what on earth would be the reason for that? If you don't think it's insecurity (which, for the record, I think is absurd) then what exactly is the reason?

 

[pittdan77]

If you think that he is intelligent and yet you think he makes bad hires, multiple times over an extended time period, because he doesn't want to hire smart people to work for him, then what on earth would be the reason for that? If you don't think it's insecurity (which, for the record, I think is absurd) then what exactly is the reason?

Smart people learn very quickly from their mistakes and can also recognize other smart people very quickly. I think he becomes enamored with friends and personalities very quickly and struggles to move past that. Now, he isn't dumb (not even close) and he is capable of leadership and getting the most out of a certain type of player but you just look at his decision making the last ten years and it's tough to argue that "smart" is the right word.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Smart people learn very quickly from their mistakes and can also recognize other smart people very quickly. I think he becomes enamored with friends and personalities very quickly and struggles to move past that. Now, he isn't dumb (not even close) and he is capable of leadership and getting the most out of a certain type of player but you just look at his decision making the last ten years and it's tough to argue that "smart" is the right word.

Or his boss doesn’t want to move on from coaches and constrain the budgets ?
Just throwing it out there- since the current Rooney ownership doesn’t seem to like to spend money at all .

 

[pittdan77]

Or his boss doesn’t want to move on from coaches and constrain the budgets ?
Just throwing it out there- since the current Rooney ownership doesn’t seem to like to spend money at all .

No argument about the Rooney's. I think they've looked across the street and realized that the fan base will eat a lot of crap and not abandon you. Usually assistants are paid from a pool of funds, though. No way that's shrinking. Smart HC wouldn't want to put up with that BS. The fact that assistants aren't transitioning through the franchise and finding success elsewhere is a huge red flag.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Or his boss doesn’t want to move on from coaches and constrain the budgets ?
Just throwing it out there- since the current Rooney ownership doesn’t seem to like to spend money at all .

Yep. And of course the small size of the staffs as we’ve discussed time and time again.

Another thing is his coaches challenges and time management which always seem like a concern. But I saw a stat last year of all coaches and their challenge success % and while he was the worst or near the worst, they were all below 30% and within % points of each other as I recall. So I just think we are closer to things here and therefore more critical. Whoever the best coach on the list was probably gets scrutinized in his town too because even his % wasn’t good.

This doesn’t speak to MT’s time management issues however. And it doesn’t speak to his playoff record.

 

[303vND]

Smart people learn very quickly from their mistakes and can also recognize other smart people very quickly. I think he becomes enamored with friends and personalities very quickly and struggles to move past that. Now, he isn't dumb (not even close) and he is capable of leadership and getting the most out of a certain type of player but you just look at his decision making the last ten years and it's tough to argue that "smart" is the right word.

That's the point in saying "smart people", however you define that personally, don't always surround themselves with other "smart people" - that's human nature to go against your instincts because of other factors/variables.

 

[303vND]

It's not me whose saying that he's insecure. I am trying to come up with a reason why you think that someone who is intelligent would do something so dumb, and over an extended period of time, and the best thing I can come up with is that YOU think he's insecure.

If you think that he is intelligent and yet you think he makes bad hires, multiple times over an extended time period, because he doesn't want to hire smart people to work for him, then what on earth would be the reason for that? If you don't think it's insecurity (which, for the record, I think is absurd) then what exactly is the reason?

I'm not disputing the insecurity aspect - who knows? I'm disputing the smart people always surround themselves with other smart people premise.

 

[pittdan77]

That's the point in saying "smart people", however you define that personally, don't always surround themselves with other "smart people" - that's human nature to go against your instincts because of other factors/variables.

Smart people like to have other smart people around them to challenge them. Push them. They also don't have those "instincts" or insecurities because they just don't function that way.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Yep. And of course the small size of the staffs as we’ve discussed time and time again.

Another thing is his coaches challenges and time management which always seem like a concern. But I saw a stat last year of all coaches and their challenge success % and while he was the worst or near the worst, they were all below 30% and within % points of each other as I recall. So I just think we are closer to things here and therefore more critical. Whoever the best coach on the list was probably gets scrutinized in his town too because even his % wasn’t good.

This doesn’t speak to MT’s time management issues however. And it doesn’t speak to his playoff record.

Yep
We just follow our team we we think it’s especially bad when it’s within a variance of everyone else .
I think his time management has been great the last few seasons, honestly . It’s very much improved .

 

[PittPharm2002]

I'm not disputing the insecurity aspect - who knows? I'm disputing the smart people always surround themselves with other smart people premise.

So just say you don’t think Tomlin is smart .
Seems you want it both ways

 

[PittPharm2002]

Smart people like to have other smart people around them to challenge them. Push them. They also don't have those "instincts" or insecurities because they just don't function that way.

Like I said - some folks have blind spots .
Granted there is zero reason Tomlin would feel “insecure “ since he’s the head coach - and they are either keep him or fire him . Having a good internal option doesn’t change that binary decision . It’s a completely made up narrative because the more simple explanation - Tomlin may have a weakness in identifying coaching talent - is too simple .
So saying he’s “insecure “ is more of a character attack .

 

[303vND]

So just say you don’t think Tomlin is smart .
Seems you want it both ways

No...I said given what we've heard from the people who cover the team on a daily basis - they view Tomlin as extremely smart/intelligent. I used Tomlin as an example that all smart people don't surround themselves with all smart people all the time.

 

[PittPharm2002]

No...I said given what we've heard from the people who cover the team on a daily basis - they view Tomlin as extremely smart/intelligent. I used Tomlin as an example that all smart people don't surround themselves with all smart people all the time.

I mean very smart compare to those media guys for sure
They are morons