The Buccos
- Thread starter Pittisit4me
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You're always one of the first to criticize the Steelers - one of the winningest franchises of all time. But you'll jump down someone's throat when they say this clown organization is bound for a losing streak.
Hilarious that people were actually puffing their chests out when the Pirates were 9-2 or whatever it was, as if this was going to last.
There you go again..........
Show me where I'm "one of the first to criticize the Steelers"
You just make shit up, hilarious!!
And BTW, no more ridiculous than puffing YOUR chest out when they go 2-8 as if THAT is going to last.
You got smug because they came back and took the lead against the mighty 11-10 Detroit Tigers - a game which they ultimately lost, before proceeding to lose 7 of their next 9. But you can't admit it, I guess. Denial must be a symptom of Bucco Fever.
Steelers??? Can't blame you for running away from that one.
Smug?
Take a long look in the mirror. LOL
Maybe stick to the "nuanced" pay board discussion. You guys can talk splits, and stats, and boast about who we have in low A... and then we can all watch Henry Davis swing over top a slider by a two feet, for his third strike out of the game. For dessert, if he'd be so kind as to treat as to such, maybe O'Neil Cruz can stare at a fastball that literally couldn't be any more down the middle of the plate for strike three. Then, for the nightcap, what are you in the mood for? I'm been craving watching a 75-mph exit velocity groundout off the bat of Chop Out Triolo, but I have no qualms with watching Suwinski go up there and look like he won a contest at Pizza Hut where a fan gets to take an MLB at-bat.
I love the perfect Hat Trick of strikeouts to end the game yesterday. Swinging. Looking. And Batter clock violation.
That's pretty hard to duplicate.
That's pretty hard to duplicate.
Lol! That was a special treat for long-time Bucco fans!
It's almost as if mediocre baseball teams sometimes have streaks where they play well, and other streaks where they play like crap. And they aren't as good as they look in one of those good streaks, or as bad as they look in the bad streaks.
Who knew?
It's almost as if some people needed the reminder, when they were 9-2, that this team IS, in fact, mediocre. Even Blind Willie Johnson could see this coming from a million miles away.
Sure, just like some people need reminded when they are in the middle of an 0-6 week (or whatever it is) that the team IS, in fact mediocre. And not the worst team in the history of baseball, as some people seem to think.
There are 30 MLB teams.
At this moment, the Pirates have as good or better record than 16 of them.
So, right in the middle=mediocre.
It is April. They are in a weak division where mediocre may be good enough.
They have a better record than the Dodgers! LOL For whatever that's worth, perspective at least.
This thread is more about hating Nutting, which is a pretty universal opinion, than the Pirates and their struggles, of which there have been many.
Suck up that nutbag Kool-aid! Wait until Skenes gets here!! It will be 3-4 innings of dominance! Even if your pitcher dominates, you still need a few runs to win. This team could possibly be the worst hitting team in all of baseball. They don't hit with power, and with men on base they are just abysmal. Strikeouts, foulouts, and pop-ups is the rule. The hitting is not mediocre. You don't get to play the Marlins every week! The great hope Cruz, has been worst of all, his only hits come by accident when the pitcher actually hits his bat by chance.
I have to admit that I really thought this team was different this year — was significantly better! But, I guess I was wrong! As far as the Steelers go: Yes, they are one of the winningest franchises in NFL history! However, the way they handled the QB situation was crap, and very Cleveland Brownish! Tomlin is just an average coach, and the Rooney in charge is a big letdown! I’m afraid that this team will not see another SB for quite some time!
The sad thing is, you are so blinded by your hate of Nutting that I have no doubt, none at all, that you fervently believe that is true. In reality:
Stat - MLB Average - Pirates average
Batting average: .241 - .240
On base percentage: .316 - .326
Slugging percentage: .386 - .356
Strike outs: 179 - 210 (if you really think that strikeouts are that big a deal, there's your complaint right there)
Walks: 71 - 93
Doubles: 33 - 31
Triples: 3 - 2
Home runs: 21 - 17
Runs scored: 94 - 95
Runs per game: 4.49 - 4.52
Seriously, if you think that those are the numbers of the worst hitting team in baseball, you've simply lost your ability for rational thought when it comes to the Pirates. For example, as a team the White Sox are hitting .190/.268/.290. They have scored a grand total of 43 runs so far. They are, by far, the worst hitting team in the league. Whomever is second worst (probably either Miami, the A's or the Twins) isn't even close to that bad.
Let go of your Nutting hatred for just a moment a look at how things are here in the real world.
It's funny, save your facts with this crowd. This isn't a baseball thread, it's a Nutting bitch session.
Amazing, all the things that upset them, yet they are Pitt fans!
How ironic?
Have fun with this bunch. This thread really isn't worth the time.
And by the way, we can do the same thing with the pitching numbers:
Stat: MLB Average - Pirates average
ERA: 4.04 - 4.09
Hits: 170 - 167
Runs: 94 - 93
Earned Runs: 84 - 86
Home Runs: 21 - 21
Strike Outs: 179 - 174
Walks: 71 - 62
Hit batters: 9 - 8
WHIP: 1.295 - 1.210
They are mediocre. Their batting stats are mediocre. Their pitching stats are mediocre. Their record is mediocre. Their expectations were mediocre.
Mediocre. Nothing more, nothing less.
Stat: MLB Average - Pirates average
ERA: 4.04 - 4.09
Hits: 170 - 167
Runs: 94 - 93
Earned Runs: 84 - 86
Home Runs: 21 - 21
Strike Outs: 179 - 174
Walks: 71 - 62
Hit batters: 9 - 8
WHIP: 1.295 - 1.210
They are mediocre. Their batting stats are mediocre. Their pitching stats are mediocre. Their record is mediocre. Their expectations were mediocre.
Mediocre. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'd like to think Pitt prioritizes winning a little more than (Spending) Nutting.
It's going to become moot pretty quickly in the Super 2/NIL era, but Pitt was consistently toward the bottom of the ACC in donations/athletic revenues taken in but much more competitive in its spending.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ending-revenue-were-committed-to-compete.html
Nutting, on the other hand, turns profit that consistently outranks where the payroll sits. Apologies, but holding up an entire city - one that funded the stadium his team plays in - so that he can treat this as some soulless business venture gets a little annoying.
Both Pitt and the Pirates have their limitations, but effort matters... at least in my opinion.
Nobody is enamored with Nutting! We all wish he wasn't the owner. We all wish the payroll was more competitive.
But he is the owner and he controls spending.
Unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do about it except bitch and moan, which becomes very boring!
I agree with you. Pitt wants to win, they just aren't good enough at dealing with their limited resources to make it happen (for the most part). Which isn't something that is unique to Pitt by any means.
On the other hand, Nutting's top priority is not winning. Not today, not ever. His main priority is making money. It has been since the day that he and his father were the money behind Kevin McClatchy in his bid to buy the team. The Pirates aren't his passion, they are his bank.
And sadly a very profitable "bank". The fractured economics of MLB guarantee Nutting a profit before any pitches are thrown.
No salary cap or floor. Owners can spend as little or as much as they want. Big spending clubs are taxed and the $$ is given to the spend thrifts. There is absolutely no incentive or mandate to spend more money!
Now years of poor performance have given the PIrates a number of decent players in the infancy of their careers, meaning making the least amount of $$ they will ever make.
There "could" be a window of competitiveness here if all goes well, or not? Time will tell how far they take them, or if they need the proverbial "piece" if they'll be able to attain him?
Sadly that is the fate of a baseball fan in Pittsburgh.
Well surely you can see some people's logic that even giving a damn about this product only screws it over in the long run, because it ensures that Nutting remains at the helm. I mean, it doesn't have to be this way even for a small market team. There's are owners who actually like baseball and will even take a loss some seasons in the name of winning. But it's hard to argue that even if he sold this team and it meant moving to another city, we'd be better off (I assume we'd eventually get an expansion team). So I get wanting to cut the head off the snake.
For the record, however, I'm not one who is just trying to piss on the party, not do I think it makes sense just to spend frivolously every season. I'll give Bob one more chance to spend a little moolah as we approach this next window. Hopefully he's had some time to think about how he'd have done it differently in the last decade. If he goes cheap again, however, eff him. Like I said, the window starts next season. We'll see what awaits.
Oh I get it. However I don't think anything anyone does can dislodge Nutting as owner. He is entrenched and doesn't give a shit about what anyone thinks of him.
What I don't understand is his strategy of sucking and collecting the luxury tax money vs. fielding a competitive team and making $$ off of increased attendance, concession sales, and merchandising??
If it is a wash, then why not do it where people are excited and enthusiastic about your product? Makes absolutely no sense.
With the gem of a ballpark, a decent team will draw well over 2 million to PNC, and with $9 beers and $4 dollar hot dogs, that's a veritable mint of $$$. Plus if the team's good you can raise ticket prices!!
His accountant must be a lazy dumbass if he can't calculate the potential in this franchise.
I'm just a long-time Bucco fan who can remember the 70's and 1979 and just continue to be smacked in the mouth year after year. I knew you could find the stats to prove me wrong, but, I am not sure what it will take to erase my negativity. I am especially dismayed with Cruz, he has been poor in the field and even worse at the plate. It's just so hard to be a fan of this team, and Nutting just cements my negative outlook.
I guess my rub is with your 3rd paragraph. Years of poor performance have given them ample good draft positions including multiple overall number ones. ‘decent players in the infancy of their careers’…….you state that like it’s a positive. It’s more so a disappointment to me, with the opportunities they had, I would have hoped for more sure fire stud players as opposed to just decent players, particularly the question marks associated with the majority of them.
Yeah, good chance Skenes will turn into a stud and maybe a few of their other young arms as well but, otherwise, what they have to show for their opportunities still seems to be a disappointment to me.
I'm old enough to remember those days too, so their constant sucking disappoints me as well. We used to go to the games all the time. My personal record for most Pirate games attended in a single season is either 31 or 32 back in 1990. Now, I haven't bought a ticket to a Pirate game in more than a decade. I've gone a few times since then, but only when someone else paid for the ticket. I won't give Bob any of my money. But I do still follow the team, and I do watch them on television and put them on the radio when they play a weekday afternoon game and I am at work.
But somewhere along the line I was able to give up on the thought that they were going to field a competitive team. Now, if they don't, well, it's what I expected, so no big deal. And on the off chance that they would, hey, that would be great. But I'm certainly not expecting it.
Because the dirty little secret is that it's almost never a wash. And you have to spend the money before hand to even have a chance for it to be a wash.
If the Pirates went out an bought a good starting pitcher and paid them $15-20 million per season, and then picked up a good hitter, say another $10 million, they are going to spend another $25 to $30 million in salary. I don't know exactly what their average ticket price is at this point, but let's use $30. To make up $30 million in extra salary they'd have to sell a million extra tickets. And there is no chance, none at all, that that happens. And sure, they make money on concessions too. Maybe they'd really only need to sell 700,000 - 800,000 extra tickets. But that isn't happening either.
And then what if they spend that money and because of injuries or whatever they don't actually get any better and they don't sell any more tickets? You think ol' Bob is going to risk $30 million out of his pocket when there is almost no chance that he's going to get his $30 million back, and there is at least a decent chance that he'll get almost none of it back? Not going to happen.
Funny - the Buccos snap their losing streak beating the first place Brewers and we get crickets on this thread.
Still recovering from the absolute TKO that was 2-9. Let us regain consciousness first!
Risk. Trying to win is a more expensive investment and there are few guarantees. Being mediocre or worse is a very safe bet. Honestly, I don't think winning would be a sustainable windfall. At best they'd get one or two seasons and then have to dump and run. Probably carry a couple of contracts that cut into those profits and have people butt hurt about it, so why bother?
Sustained winning at the Pirates' level involves a GM who is a nerd and loves what he does. Lots of trading away very good players before the fans want to see them go, etc. Can't cave into temptation or fan dissatisfaction. I always thought that's what Huntington did in that Archer trade. "Okay, you guys want a move??? Here ya go!"
Although Meadows and Baz are trying their best not to make that trade look as bad as it was.
I hate the luxury tax. While it is supposed to boost the lower revenue franchises, it deincentivizes them to try and seriously win. It incentives and rewards teams for keeping payrolls low. So essentially teams like the Dodgers pay the Pirates to essentially be the Washington Generals.
But every few years the other owners and/or players union says, "Hey, wait a second!" before going back to not giving a damn, so at least there is that!
I actually don't like the idea of an annual price floor, because I'm more in favor of going cheap in down years and then using the savings to go all in when the window dictates doing such. However...
1) Nutting probably ain't going all in, so it doesn't matter anyway, and...
2) If we did employ that strategy successfully enough, you'd see a price floor instituted real fast.
1) Nutting probably ain't going all in, so it doesn't matter anyway, and...
2) If we did employ that strategy successfully enough, you'd see a price floor instituted real fast.
What does it say about a league where half of the teams have a payroll of $150 million or less and only 10 teams have a payroll north of $200 million. Then you have the Padres at $162 million who lost a ton of money last year.
There should be more owners willing to band together to come up with a cap and a floor. But they never, ever do. Why? Cause the system is not broken for them in on the P&L statement. The W&L statement doesn't matter.
I think there are some who are genuinely pissed at Nutting's strategy. Not pissed enough to actually do it, evidently, because they at least understand this isn't your typical business venture and it's bigger than them.
MLB is doomed to be the league of haves and have not due to media contract. The NFL got it right having a national media rights contract across the league. With this set up you can have a salary cap for all teams.
MLB is beholden to a few large market teams with their own media contracts that has destroyed any hope of financial balance in the league.
MLB is beholden to a few large market teams with their own media contracts that has destroyed any hope of financial balance in the league.
Everyone involved in MLB is making a ton of money so nobody cares so long as people keep buying the product.
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