The entire sport of college football needs to take some Ex-Lax and allow itself some gentle overnight relief...

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

You guys want to know my whole biggest bitch in this whole new arena aside from just blowing up and pissing on everything college football was supposed to be about (traditional regional rivalries?)

It is the passengers who may get a golden ticket. Ole Miss. Mississippi State. I mean if this all plays out, you really think college football would want not just 1, but 2 teams from Mississippi? Indiana, Purdue. 2 from Indiana? Northwestern? They'll never compete anymore at this level. Vandy, see Northwestern. Rutgers? Rutgers is a 3 time loser. Sucked as an Independent, sucked in the Big East and sucks in the Big 10. They deserve a seat at the table over say 30 other schools? Really?

That is the real BS.

I've got no problem with the Mississippi schools. They have extremely passionate fan bases and have a tough draw being in the SEC West.

The other schools, yeah. I mean, some of it has to hinge on markets and potential rather than purely on results. Like, a school such as UCF (I know it's not apples to apples, because you're talking about schools already in the Big 2... but you could also use UCLA as an example), if given the opportunity, can absolutely rise up to a Florida or Florida State level someday. But some of them offer neither; they're just being grandfathered in, basically.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Didn't Saban complain about the fans leaving early in one of those squash matches a few years back? Even they don't want to see that.

Nothing feels more like obligatory duty than showing up to watch Pitt play an FCS school. If it's the first game of the year, it's at least kind of cool in a Spring Game 2.0 way, just because you can see some new faces getting playing time, etc. But Rhode Island this year, after we've already played 2.5 real games? That's going to absolutely suck.

there is no pre-season in college football. I don't mind the jobber matches on Labor Day weekend to work out the kinks of new staffs, new QBs, etc. But no P5 should schedule a jobber after September.

While I will enjoy the hype of opening with WVU, for the sake of my nerve I would much rather flip that with the RI game.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I've got no problem with the Mississippi schools. They have extremely passionate fan bases and have a tough draw being in the SEC West.

The other schools, yeah. I mean, some of it has to hinge on markets and potential rather than purely on results. Like, a school such as UCF (I know it's not apples to apples, because you're talking about schools already in the Big 2... but you could also use UCLA as an example), if given the opportunity, can absolutely rise up to a Florida or Florida State level someday. But some of them offer neither; they're just being grandfathered in, basically.

the Mississippi schools are glorified jobbers, kind of like Dolph Ziggler. Lots of fans, decent look, but in the end he is no way taking the strap from Lesnar.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

the Mississippi schools are glorified jobbers, kind of like Dolph Ziggler. Lots of fans, decent look, but in the end he is no way taking the strap from Lesnar.

Ole Miss has played in a Peach Bowl and two Sugar Bowls in the last 8 seasons. 8+ wins for an SEC West school isn't bad. Mississippi State has done that at a 50% clip over the last dozen years. I mean, they beat an NC State team (one of the ACC's best) by two touchdowns last year with what was only a 7-6 team. Both of those programs would be in contention for the Coastal almost annually. Moreover, though, I think it's about their dedication to football as much as the results. They're both more or less all in.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Ole Miss has played in a Peach Bowl and two Sugar Bowls in the last 8 seasons. 8+ wins for an SEC West school isn't bad. Mississippi State has done that at a 50% clip over the last dozen years. I mean, they beat an NC State team (one of the ACC's best) by two touchdowns last year with what was only a 7-6 team. Both of those programs would be in contention for the Coastal almost annually. Moreover, though, I think it's about their dedication to football as much as the results. They're both more or less all in.

yeah, but don't forget that SEC schedule includes 4 OOC games. Throw in a few games against an SEC east that wasn't too hot those 8 years and how hard was an 8 win season for Ole Miss? I guarantee they weren't traveling to Michigan or Penn State OOC, probably cream puff city.

 

[NCPitt]

We've gotta quash this notion that fans will care if their teams have a few more losses while playing significantly harder competition. Do people really not give the fans enough credit to know the difference between playing Auburn and Albany? Or to look at the standings and see that everyone else has losses, too.

I'm of the opinion that these FCS/G5 games are a waste of everyone's time. If I only get to watch my team play 12 meaningful games per year, I don't want three of those weeks to be wasted on UMass, New Hampshire, and Western Michigan (hold your comments). Duke, GT, and Syracuse are bad enough. No need to play the Little Sisters of the Poor on top of that.

We've had this discussion. There is no quashing this idea because it is right in most cases. Fans will not be happy if their team loses 4 games. They will call for the coach's heads.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We've had this discussion. There is no quashing this idea because it is right in most cases. Fans will not be happy if their team loses 4 games. They will call for the coach's heads.

"Darnit, we're used to going 9-3, sometimes even 10-2, and playing in the Outback Bowl with our five best starters sitting out, but now we have to go 8-4 and compete for national championships n' stuff. This will not stand!!!!"

 

[NCPitt]

Bud, why don't you sit this one out? You are incapable of looking at this through a new lens. It will be like the NFL: You know, the most popular league on Earth. But you keep looking at it through the scope of how current college football is structured. It's like a blind spot you can just can't circumvent or something.

College football fans don't want it to be the new NFL.

 

[NCPitt]

"Darnit, we're used to going 9-3, sometimes even 10-2, and playing in the Outback Bowl with our five best starters sitting out, but now we have to go 8-4 and compete for national championships n' stuff. This will not stand!!!!"

Straw man.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Straw man.

Oh? Wisconsin has averaged about 9 wins per year over the last 20 full seasons. Wanna guess how many national championships they've qualified for?

You think their fans would care if that number came down to averaging 7 wins per season (sometimes they win 5; sometimes 9; etc.) but playing in a championship playoff every third year or so? I think they'd take that trade.

 

[NCPitt]

If it was up to Pitt admin, our "i" would be dotted with a volleyball and our football team would be a trailblazing group of League-of-Their-Own ladies who overcame the odds to take down the patriarch by playing flag football at Highmark Stadium in front of 82 ebullient blue-haired fans who make a stink on social media about the $3 cover fee to get in.

The pay structure for the coaching staff belies your post.

 

[NCPitt]

Football is such a different animal. Especially in a December playoff game (i.e. no breaking in a new quarterback, playing in an emotionless trap game. etc.).

It isn't so different. I would point to Pitt vs WVU 13-9.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The pay structure for the coaching staff belies your post.

What about the $250M facility they're about to start building?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

College football fans don't want it to be the new NFL.

You're right. I don't think the fans do. Honestly, don't think the coaches do. But the school presidents are making the decisions and they seem to think they can become what the NFL is.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

It isn't so different. I would point to Pitt vs WVU 13-9.

That's a rivalry game pitting two P5 teams against each other. It's not Alabama playing some G5 team that has no business being on the same field as them. Assuming the current structure of college football remains the same and you wanna put one G5 team in, go ahead. But putting 3 or 4 in? Complete silliness.

 

[NCPitt]

Here it is for you on a tee with no sarcasm:

1) More people will watch good matchups between quality (both currently and historically) programs than the amount of people that will watch teams trounce some jobber FCS school.

2) More fans will be interested in a league that, in addition to providing better weekly matchups, gives more teams a path to qualifying for a national championship playoff. Currently, a team that starts even 4-2 is cooked. Under a different format - with automatic qualifying parameters, as opposed to it being a beauty contest - those teams would remain very much in contention.

3) Because of reasons 1 and 2, fans won't care if the records are more muddied up. They will be watching better weekly football, and more teams will still matter much deeper into the season.

The fact that you can't see this is somewhat astounding, actually. Your example of a 7-7 Pitt team couldn't be any less relevant to any of this. If anything, it counter-proves your stance, because you stated that fans thought it was a bad season because they played in a bad bowl game. But that 7-5 team may have qualified for a playoff if the circumstances were right and auto bids were available, in which case even more fans would have labeled the season as a success, as many will adopt the mantra, "Just get in." Winning your division will mean a hell of a lot more when it gives you a chance to play for a national championship, as opposed to playing a meaningless game in El Paso, TX.

You're mixing 2 points together to make your argument.

Expanding the playoffs alone would make the team that starts 4-2 remain viable. They wouldn't have to part of a superleague to get into an expanded playoff.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

In my Opinion (and that’s all anyone has), College Football championship games featuring a couple 8-5 teams that stagger past similar programs in 23-17 games to get to the final, will eventually not get very much attention or ratings. I think part of the allure to the mainstream potential viewers is the sense that you have two juggernauts clashing. It speaks to why fans and recruits chase after Alabama and Ohio State; they have a mystique; a mystique that wasn’t built by 7-5 records each year. But I could be wrong; unfortunately it is looking like the theory will get a chance to be tested in the near future. I won’t be happy if I’m proven right, because it likely will mean that Pitt football (and others like us) was frozen out and probably won’t be in existence by that time; by then it will be too late for us.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

You're mixing 2 points together to make your argument.

Expanding the playoffs alone would make the team that starts 4-2 remain viable. They wouldn't have to part of a superleague to get into an expanded playoff.

No, you're combining two arguments. The argument I've been making with him is purely under a "super league" assumption.

 

[NCPitt]

Oh? Wisconsin has averaged about 9 wins per year over the last 20 full seasons. Wanna guess how many national championships they've qualified for?

You think their fans would care if that number came down to averaging 7 wins per season (sometimes they win 5; sometimes 9; etc.) but playing in a championship playoff every third year or so? I think they'd take that trade.

So expand the playoffs and that would happen. That alone solves your argument about the playoffs.

But Wisconsin isn't even a team that would be problematic with regard to happy fan bases. Their fanbase is OK with where they are in the college fb world. Its the Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, etc. fanbases that would be irate at 4 loss seasons. Put a couple of those back-to-back and their coaches would be run out of town. We've seen it happen before.

 

[NCPitt]

What about the $250M facility they're about to start building?

What about it? You don't think the SEC schools don't have superior Olympic sports facilities?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

In my Opinion (and that’s all anyone has), College Football championship games featuring a couple 8-5 teams that stagger past similar programs in 23-17 games to get to the final, will eventually not get very much attention or ratings. I think part of the allure to the mainstream potential viewers is the sense that you have two juggernauts clashing. It speaks to why fans and recruits chase after Alabama and Ohio State; they have a mystique; a mystique that wasn’t built by 7-5 records each year. But I could be wrong; unfortunately it is looking like the theory will get a chance to be tested in the near future. I won’t be happy if I’m proven right, because it likely will mean that Pitt football (and others like us) was frozen out and probably won’t be in existence by that time; by then it will be too late for us.

Some of that will probably be lost. I hear people say all the time that they miss pre-free agency sports, etc. when there were giants to slay. But it's not like they'll be instituting a draft or anything, so I think there will still be juggernauts. Maybe they'll just be 10-2 instead of 12-0. Just my opinion, anyway.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You guys want to know my whole biggest bitch in this whole new arena aside from just blowing up and pissing on everything college football was supposed to be about (traditional regional rivalries?)

It is the passengers who may get a golden ticket. Ole Miss. Mississippi State. I mean if this all plays out, you really think college football would want not just 1, but 2 teams from Mississippi? Indiana, Purdue. 2 from Indiana? Northwestern? They'll never compete anymore at this level. Vandy, see Northwestern. Rutgers? Rutgers is a 3 time loser. Sucked as an Independent, sucked in the Big East and sucks in the Big 10. They deserve a seat at the table over say 30 other schools? Really?

That is the real BS.

Mine too. There is no reason that the following schools should be entered in this new pro college league:

Rutgers - possibly the worst college program historically and no one cares about them in NJ

Indiana/Purdue - ND will be in B10 eventually so if you really need a 2nd Indiana team, pick 1. No need for 3 Indiana teams in this league

Vandy - no fans and no new market as TN dominates the Nashville market

Miss St - cant have 2 teams from a lowly populated state. Ole Miss is THE TEAM in Mississippi.

Others I can live with:

Maryland - good market, decent historically

Kentucky - basketball team is very valuable

NW - Chicago

But those others should get booted

 

[NCPitt]

You're right. I don't think the fans do. Honestly, don't think the coaches do. But the school presidents are making the decisions and they seem to think they can become what the NFL is.

I don't think the presidents believe that. They just see the short-term $ and jump on it. I have to believe that the majority understand that they will never equate to the NFL.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

So expand the playoffs and that would happen. That alone solves your argument about the playoffs.

But Wisconsin isn't even a team that would be problematic with regard to happy fan bases. Their fanbase is OK with where they are in the college fb world. Its the Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, etc. fanbases that would be irate at 4 loss seasons. Put a couple of those back-to-back and their coaches would be run out of town. We've seen it happen before.

Oh, I'm sure Alabama fans would prefer the current system. Why wouldn't they? But what about A&M, Texas, Oklahoma post SEC, Penn State, Michigan, Tennessee, Florida, USC, etc.? There are like 3-5 schools the current system works for, and that's it.

But I still think those 3-5 schools would eventually learn to adjust their expectations. Where are Alabama fans going anytime soon? What is better that they have to do?

 

[FireballZ]

Bud, why don't you sit this one out? You are incapable of looking at this through a new lens. It will be like the NFL: You know, the most popular league on Earth. But you keep looking at it through the scope of how current college football is structured. It's like a blind spot you can just can't circumvent or something.

I've never seen a poster jump shark as much as you have in the past few months. Are you off your medication?

I'm happy to put you on ignore like the other clear Big Ten shills like Bad and Cash, who hang out here for whatever reason, but damn is it annoying having people like you and SMF on ignore because you post 100 times a day.

 

[NCPitt]

That's a rivalry game pitting two P5 teams against each other. It's not Alabama playing some G5 team that has no business being on the same field as them. Assuming the current structure of college football remains the same and you wanna put one G5 team in, go ahead. But putting 3 or 4 in? Complete silliness.

It was a major, major upset. You seem to believe that couldn't happen. The emotions of college don't require a rivalry to get upsets. It was also a rivalry game with more meaning to the WVU players yet they were upset. Don't try to justify your argument with nonsense.

A 16th ranked P5 team has better odds of winning than a G5 team. Don't kid yourself. And the TV ratings wouldn't be significantly better either.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What about it? You don't think the SEC schools don't have superior Olympic sports facilities?

They do but the new volleyball arena does absolutely nothing to help Pitt get into the P2. It is probably unattainable but every minute and every dollar must go to football. I would go so far as ask the SEC what they want us to do? Ask them if we built a billion dollar Jerry World college football stadium and gave them 30K tickets to each game, can they get us in? I mean, honestly, you ask the SEC to name their price.

 

[NCPitt]

No, you're combining two arguments. The argument I've been making with him is purely under a "super league" assumption.

Then your argument is nonsense.

 

[pittdan77]

1) More people will watch good matchups between quality (both currently and historically) programs than the amount of people that will watch teams trounce some jobber FCS school.

We're talking about the playoff so what does this argument have to do with anything?

2) More fans will be interested in a league that, in addition to providing better weekly matchups, gives more teams a path to qualifying for a national championship playoff. Currently, a team that starts even 4-2 is cooked. Under a different format - with automatic qualifying parameters, as opposed to it being a beauty contest - those teams would remain very much in contention.

Well, two loss teams have never made the playoff but an expansion of the CFP doesn't mean four losses will suddenly be okay. Nobody is talking about an exclusive, two-conference playoff.

3) Because of reasons 1 and 2, fans won't care if the records are more muddied up. They will be watching better weekly football, and more teams will still matter much deeper into the season.

So you've effectively moved the goalposts because my comments were about the playoff. You're talking about the regular season again but since we're here, a lot of people do tune in to see Bama play Auburn or Ohio State play Michigan but none of those schools are going to abandon their MAC/Sun Belt games or get rid of the crummy schools in both of those conferences. Wonder why they don't?

Look, organize your thoughts and get back to me when you can string together a cogent thought or two on the subject or at least provide some evidence. You're making a lot of assumptions about something that has never operated the way you want it to or you're just trolling because you're deeply in love with a system that excludes the school you're pretending to be a fan of.

 

[NCPitt]

Oh, I'm sure Alabama fans would prefer the current system. Why wouldn't they? But what about A&M, Texas, Oklahoma post SEC, Penn State, Michigan, Tennessee, Florida, USC, etc.? There are like 3-5 schools the current system works for, and that's it.

But I still think those 3-5 schools would eventually learn to adjust their expectations. Where are Alabama fans going anytime soon? What is better that they have to do?

The schools would adjust. The fans wouldn't. They will not accept regular 4-loss seasons.

 

[NCPitt]

They do but the new volleyball arena does absolutely nothing to help Pitt get into the P2. It is probably unattainable but every minute and every dollar must go to football. I would go so far as ask the SEC what they want us to do? Ask them if we built a billion dollar Jerry World college football stadium and gave them 30K tickets to each game, can they get us in? I mean, honestly, you ask the SEC to name their price.

I don't want Pitt in a P2.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't want Pitt in a P2.

Why? Let me guess, you think they will be true student athletes in a league with WVU, Syracuse, Louisville, and UCF?

 

[pittdan77]

Then your argument is nonsense.

That's the whole thing in a nutshell. He wants everyone to assume the playoff would become exclusive when there isn't anyone with a horse in the race suggesting it. Literally arguing about something that has zero chance of happening.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

That's the whole thing in a nutshell. He wants everyone to assume the playoff would become exclusive when there isn't anyone with a horse in the race suggesting it. Literally arguing about something that has zero chance of happening.

You've been coming at my for weeks regarding a hypothetical two-conference super league. It started with "teams in that league won't have 4 losses and still make the playoff." Then it morphed into "that league wouldn't have better tv ratings." And so forth and so on. Then, another poster says something about a 16-team playoff in the current format, and I comment on that, which is a different debate.

And I'll absolutely bet you that a "super league" is coming. Please, name your price. 0% chance of happening? You should lay a lot on this, then.

 

[pittdan77]

You've been coming at my for weeks regarding a hypothetical two-conference super league. It started with "teams in that league won't have 4 losses and still make the playoff." Then it morphed into "that league wouldn't have better tv ratings." And so forth and so on. Then, another poster says something about a 16-team playoff in the current format, and I comment on that, which is a different debate.

And I'll absolutely bet you that a "super league" is coming. Please, name your price. 0% chance of happening? You should lay a lot on this, then.

You're just blowing smoke. Show us some evidence.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

You're just blowing smoke. Show us some evidence.

I don't have any evidence. Even more incentive for you to lay big money down.

Heather Lyke herself has touched on the P5 ceding from the NCAA for football. And that will be the challenge of the 20 - 30 university presidents who aren't in the BIG or SEC in the next decade or less - ensuring that they're not left out of of this new league.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Mine too. There is no reason that the following schools should be entered in this new pro college league:

Rutgers - possibly the worst college program historically and no one cares about them in NJ

Indiana/Purdue - ND will be in B10 eventually so if you really need a 2nd Indiana team, pick 1. No need for 3 Indiana teams in this league

Vandy - no fans and no new market as TN dominates the Nashville market

Miss St - cant have 2 teams from a lowly populated state. Ole Miss is THE TEAM in Mississippi.

Others I can live with:

Maryland - good market, decent historically

Kentucky - basketball team is very valuable

NW - Chicago

But those others should get booted

Northwestern doesn't bring the Chicago market. No one cares there. ND if anyone brings Chicago.

Vanderbilt - In a way they have it worse than us. They get little attention in Nashville and they fight with Tennessee for what little coverage there is (actually I think they have it worse than we do with the media fawning over PSU here. Probably close to 50-50 in Nashville where it is nowhere near that here with PSU).

But I agree, 2 Mississippi schools, 2 Indiana schools, plus Northwestern, Vandy, Rutgers? The only reason is these 2 conferences still need jobbers and fear the remaining schools outside the "P2" won't be as willing to schedule them in the future

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I don't want Pitt in a P2.

If the “P2 only” thing comes about, and you love or even like Pitt football, you had better hope like mad that Pitt gets included in the P2 somehow. Pitt football won’t survive outside of it, playing for some lower grade variant of the FCS. It won’t. We have to be major league, whatever major league happens to become. Doesn’t matter if we’re brought in with the idea we will replace Akron or Arkansas State on the schedules of the Have’s. Doesn’t matter our actual chances to win the major league are about the same as the Pirates winning. Doesn’t matter. We have to be major league.

And for those who care most about the Olympic and women’s sports you had better hope the same. Because even if those sports can still exist, they’ll be playing Gannon and Bethany, or wherever else they can drive on a bus in 2-3 hours for road games and not require a hotel. They will not be playing P2 opponents on ESPNU or even something like the ACC network. They’ll be playing at someone’s rented junior high field.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You've been coming at my for weeks regarding a hypothetical two-conference super league. It started with "teams in that league won't have 4 losses and still make the playoff." Then it morphed into "that league wouldn't have better tv ratings." And so forth and so on. Then, another poster says something about a 16-team playoff in the current format, and I comment on that, which is a different debate.

And I'll absolutely bet you that a "super league" is coming. Please, name your price. 0% chance of happening? You should lay a lot on this, then.

A P2 super league is absolutely coming. They will break away from the NCAA and pay the players. It will be a pro league. Its why Jim Phillips was sobbing at his presser, crying for the poor volleyball players and swimmers. What will happen to them he wonders?

The question is, will the "3rd league" which will be of lesser stature be invited to this super league. My guess is that, yes, the 3rd division will be in it. So the 16 team playoff will be like 14 from the P2 and 2 from the 3rd Division

 

[Burgh15]

Burgh15...Based upon the system that is currently being used in college football, most of them would stink initially. Just like anything else, the more we would be exposed to something new, the more appealing it will become. Using smaller conferences based upon geographic locations will create rivalries that and generate more money and ultimately that is what college sports is all about.
The sport must change to survive. Realistically, most schools (and I do include Pitt when I say this) have little chance each year to claim a spot in the current national playoff set-up. Obviously schools like Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc..., have no interest in changing anything. They are the perennial powers in the sport and are basically given 3 of those 4 spots every year, that is unfair to the other 126 D-I schools. Without change, fan interest will drop, TV will decrease and s lot of schools will drop their football programs.

Creating smaller geographic-based conferences wouldn't create new rivalries, it'd just revive the rivalries that used to exist when conferences were more geographically based.

I also don't think having smaller regional conferences, which I am in favor, addresses the issue of half of college football teams not realistically being able to compete even at mid-tier level.

Pat Forde put together a massive realignment plan (https://www.si.com/.amp/college/202...ference-realignment?__twitter_impression=true) combining all the schools and the conferences flat out stink, particularly Pitt's. It really highlights, IMO, the separation of talent and resources for teams to compete in football.

I think the FBS split into two smaller divisions with 16 playoff spots each opens a huge window for teams that could never dream to compete for a title to all of a sudden have a chance at a playoff spot.