The entire sport of college football needs to take some Ex-Lax and allow itself some gentle overnight relief...

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

A P2 super league is absolutely coming. They will break away from the NCAA and pay the players. It will be a pro league. Its why Jim Phillips was sobbing at his presser, crying for the poor volleyball players and swimmers. What will happen to them he wonders?

The question is, will the "3rd league" which will be of lesser stature be invited to this super league. My guess is that, yes, the 3rd division will be in it. So the 16 team playoff will be like 14 from the P2 and 2 from the 3rd Division

By the time the Super 2 League comes to fruition, I think they'll have enough markets/fans that I'm not sure they'll have to barter for additional interest by offering spots in their playoff. But it's certainly possible that they do that, if they think it will keep more fans engaged in their product. It'll be a small bone to throw some schools that can bring in additional viewership (i.e. by watching the Super League and believing they're still "part of thing thing" in some way). But I still expect them to eventually land Clemson, Notre Dame, and about 8-12 more schools.

 

[Ski11585]

Mine too. There is no reason that the following schools should be entered in this new pro college league:

Rutgers - possibly the worst college program historically and no one cares about them in NJ

Indiana/Purdue - ND will be in B10 eventually so if you really need a 2nd Indiana team, pick 1. No need for 3 Indiana teams in this league

Vandy - no fans and no new market as TN dominates the Nashville market

Miss St - cant have 2 teams from a lowly populated state. Ole Miss is THE TEAM in Mississippi.

Others I can live with:

Maryland - good market, decent historically

Kentucky - basketball team is very valuable

NW - Chicago

But those others should get booted

Nobody in Chicago cares about Northwestern football.

 

[PeetWeet2]

A P2 super league is absolutely coming. They will break away from the NCAA and pay the players. It will be a pro league. Its why Jim Phillips was sobbing at his presser, crying for the poor volleyball players and swimmers. What will happen to them he wonders?

The question is, will the "3rd league" which will be of lesser stature be invited to this super league. My guess is that, yes, the 3rd division will be in it. So the 16 team playoff will be like 14 from the P2 and 2 from the 3rd Division

Why do you think they will pay players? Wouldn’t they much rather keep ALL gate and TV money for themselves?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Creating smaller geographic-based conferences wouldn't create new rivalries, it'd just revive the rivalries that used to exist when conferences were more geographically based.

I also don't think having smaller regional conferences, which I am in favor, addresses the issue of half of college football teams not realistically being able to compete even at mid-tier level.

Pat Forde put together a massive realignment plan (https://www.si.com/.amp/college/202...ference-realignment?__twitter_impression=true) combining all the schools and the conferences flat out stink, particularly Pitt's. It really highlights, IMO, the separation of talent and resources for teams to compete in football.

I think the FBS split into two smaller divisions with 16 playoff spots each opens a huge window for teams that could never dream to compete for a title to all of a sudden have a chance at a playoff spot.

How do I get put on that twitter site for suggesting making Howard an HBCU super team and adding them to the ACC but Pat Forde gets paid, literally paid to write an article about how ND should be in a conference with Northern Illinois, MTSU, and Western Kentucky. Again, he got paid to write that

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nobody in Chicago cares about Northwestern football.

I know that but the conference office is there and many Big Ten alums live there. Plus its a great school and tradition or whatever so they make my cut. Its a great away game for Big Ten fans.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

You guys want to know my whole biggest bitch in this whole new arena aside from just blowing up and pissing on everything college football was supposed to be about (traditional regional rivalries?)

It is the passengers who may get a golden ticket. Ole Miss. Mississippi State. I mean if this all plays out, you really think college football would want not just 1, but 2 teams from Mississippi? Indiana, Purdue. 2 from Indiana? Northwestern? They'll never compete anymore at this level. Vandy, see Northwestern. Rutgers? Rutgers is a 3 time loser. Sucked as an Independent, sucked in the Big East and sucks in the Big 10. They deserve a seat at the table over say 30 other schools? Really?

That is the real BS.

I wouldn’t worry about this from long term perspective. There will be a few teams that won’t be in those conferences…Northwestern, Vandy, Miss St and Purdue are the four glaring examples…they will be cooked. In fact, long term, I would guess they’ll be worse off than many schools who aren’t in P2 right now.

 

[pittdan77]

I don't have any evidence.

Thank you for admitting you're just blowing smoke. You can sit this one out, now.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The NFL could crash all of this by just deciding to play on Saturdays in addition to Sundays.

Actually if the NFL decided to play on Saturdays during the college football season (and Fridays during the high school football season) it would end up being a complete and utter disaster for them.

When the courts ruled back in the 60s that the NFL negotiating television contracts for the entire league was a violation of anti-trust laws they got Congress to pass the league an exemption to allow them to pool negotiating rights for broadcasting games even though that is against the law. That exemption specifically applies to only five days of the week, Sunday through Thursday, until the college football season ends for Satudays and the high school season ends for Fridays.

So if the NFL decided to play a Saturday night game in October and they sold national broadcasting rights to that game they would be in violation of US anti-trust laws. And they have no interest what so ever in having the consequences of that action applied to them. Because the damages they would incur would be enormous.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Thank you for admitting you're just blowing smoke. You can sit this one out, now.

Where's your evidence that this is "100% not going to happen"? For being that confident in something, I'm surprised you don't want to turn your confidence into some cash.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I don't want Pitt in a P2.

Why? Let me guess, you think they will be true student athletes in a league with WVU, Syracuse, Louisville, and UCF?

If the “P2 only” thing comes about, and you love or even like Pitt football, you had better hope like mad that Pitt gets included in the P2 somehow. Pitt football won’t survive outside of it, playing for some lower grade variant of the FCS. It won’t.

Honestly, Pitt seems like the rare outlier. Look all of the teams that have switched conferences in the past twenty years. Has it worked out long term for any of their football programs? Maybe it has worked for Pitt and Utah and I feel like that is about it. Seriously -- Rutgers, Maryland, Miami, BC, VT, Mizzou, Nebraska, Colorado, WVU, TCU, Louisville, Syracuse ... fans of those football programs cannot tell me that their teams are more relevant on the national scene right now than they were in their old conferences. Texas A&M maybe is about even with the heights it achieved in its old conference. I am probably forgetting a couple more, but it seems the majority are worse off. I fear the same would happen for Pitt if we make a jump again.

I am interested to see how it will work out for USC, UCLA, Texas, and Oklahoma.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The schools would adjust. The fans wouldn't. They will not accept regular 4-loss seasons.

Do you suppose New England Patriot fans were happier with the 2007 team that won it's first 18 games in a row and then lost in the Super Bowl or the 2001 team that went 11-5 in the regular season and then won the Super Bowl?

Your point would make a lot more sense if college football fans were only fans of college football and they didn't know that pretty much every other sport (including college basketball, which many of them follow the same school in) work completely differently.

The vast majority of college football fans would have no trouble adjusting. And the vast majority of them would rather go 8-4 and then win a championship than go 10-2 and not.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Do you suppose New England Patriot fans were happier with the 2007 team that won it's first 18 games in a row and then lost in the Super Bowl or the 2001 team that went 11-5 in the regular season and then won the Super Bowl?

That's the beauty of college football ... it has a more interesting system for determining the national championship than the NFL.

 

[pittdan77]

Where's your evidence that this is "100% not going to happen"? For being that confident in something, I'm surprised you don't want to turn your confidence into some cash.

Try just about any reputable sport news outlet? B1G is still talking about automatic qualifiers or not and they just put the new Big12 commissioner on the management committee.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Try just about any reputable sport news outlet? B1G is still talking about automatic qualifiers or not and they just put the new Big12 commissioner on the management committee.

Lol. Almost literally everyone plugged into college football (and you can argue their sources, but you can't argue their output) has predicted an eventual super league. It's just a matter of when.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Again, so much changes. When I was in High School and into college years, the Heavyweight Champion in Boxing was the biggest title in sports. And boxing itself was incredibly popular. Hell, baseball was even with the NFL and dwarfed the NBA. With the way we are going, and how litigious our society has become, who knows how long football is going to exist on a large scale??

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

That's the beauty of college football ... it has a more interesting system for determining the national championship than the NFL.

If by "interesting" you mean "inferior" then yeah, sure, more "interesting".

 

[USN_Panther]

Actually if the NFL decided to play on Saturdays during the college football season (and Fridays during the high school football season) it would end up being a complete and utter disaster for them.

When the courts ruled back in the 60s that the NFL negotiating television contracts for the entire league was a violation of anti-trust laws they got Congress to pass the league an exemption to allow them to pool negotiating rights for broadcasting games even though that is against the law. That exemption specifically applies to only five days of the week, Sunday through Thursday, until the college football season ends for Satudays and the high school season ends for Fridays.

So if the NFL decided to play a Saturday night game in October and they sold national broadcasting rights to that game they would be in violation of US anti-trust laws. And they have no interest what so ever in having the consequences of that action applied to them. Because the damages they would incur would be enormous.

I did not realize that. Does the now professional status of CFB affect that? Or only if Congress amends the anti-trust law?

 

[NCPitt]

Why? Let me guess, you think they will be true student athletes in a league with WVU, Syracuse, Louisville, and UCF?

I don't want the school to sell its soul to the devil as you recommend.

They do but the new volleyball arena does absolutely nothing to help Pitt get into the P2. It is probably unattainable but every minute and every dollar must go to football. I would go so far as ask the SEC what they want us to do? Ask them if we built a billion dollar Jerry World college football stadium and gave them 30K tickets to each game, can they get us in? I mean, honestly, you ask the SEC to name their price.

 

[NCPitt]

You've been coming at my for weeks regarding a hypothetical two-conference super league. It started with "teams in that league won't have 4 losses and still make the playoff." Then it morphed into "that league wouldn't have better tv ratings." And so forth and so on. Then, another poster says something about a 16-team playoff in the current format, and I comment on that, which is a different debate.

And I'll absolutely bet you that a "super league" is coming. Please, name your price. 0% chance of happening? You should lay a lot on this, then.

You're still ignoring the main point - that even a superleague won't have exclusive entry into a playoff. And 4-loss teams won't get in if non-superleague teams are part of it.

 

[NCPitt]

If the “P2 only” thing comes about, and you love or even like Pitt football, you had better hope like mad that Pitt gets included in the P2 somehow. Pitt football won’t survive outside of it, playing for some lower grade variant of the FCS. It won’t. We have to be major league, whatever major league happens to become. Doesn’t matter if we’re brought in with the idea we will replace Akron or Arkansas State on the schedules of the Have’s. Doesn’t matter our actual chances to win the major league are about the same as the Pirates winning. Doesn’t matter. We have to be major league.

And for those who care most about the Olympic and women’s sports you had better hope the same. Because even if those sports can still exist, they’ll be playing Gannon and Bethany, or wherever else they can drive on a bus in 2-3 hours for road games and not require a hotel. They will not be playing P2 opponents on ESPNU or even something like the ACC network. They’ll be playing at someone’s rented junior high field.

I disagree.

 

[NCPitt]

Do you suppose New England Patriot fans were happier with the 2007 team that won it's first 18 games in a row and then lost in the Super Bowl or the 2001 team that went 11-5 in the regular season and then won the Super Bowl?

Your point would make a lot more sense if college football fans were only fans of college football and they didn't know that pretty much every other sport (including college basketball, which many of them follow the same school in) work completely differently.

The vast majority of college football fans would have no trouble adjusting. And the vast majority of them would rather go 8-4 and then win a championship than go 10-2 and not.

First, 8-4 teams are not winning any championship. They would be the last seeds and have no realistic shot at winning.

Second, there are 10-15 schools where the fans have raised their expectations to 1 or 1 loss seasons. They won't be happy with 4 losses no matter who they lose to. Each loss means that their team is inferior to the other team. 4 losses means their team is inferior to at least 4 other teams. That would be unacceptable and they would campaign to have the coaching staff fired.

Third, fans aren't stupid enough to think that college football is like pro sports. Even with NIL, teams can't be bought and players can't be traded. The season is shorter and each game is magnified. College football is a unique sport and the fans know it.

 

[NCPitt]

I did not realize that. Does the now professional status of CFB affect that? Or only if Congress amends the anti-trust law?

College sports does not have an exemption like professional sports leagues. Congress would have to vote to provide it. The NCAA has lobbied for it and Congress has shown no willingness to give it.

 

[USN_Panther]

College sports does not have an exemption like professional sports leagues. Congress would have to vote to provide it. The NCAA has lobbied for it and Congress has shown no willingness to give it.

I was asking if the pro status of CFB affects the NFL's exemption as the NFL is no longer the only professional league.
Cincinnati Bengals to the Big10? Why not?

 

[PittPharm2002]

The pay structure for the coaching staff belies your post.

We agree
Pitt plays and pays like a big time program

the fans and boosters do not

 

[NCPitt]

I was asking if the pro status of CFB affects the NFL's exemption as the NFL is no longer the only professional league.
Cincinnati Bengals to the Big10? Why not?

Sorry, I misinterpreted your question.

No, the antitrust exemption for the NFL was specifically written for them and limited to their contractual negotiations with TV networks.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I did not realize that. Does the now professional status of CFB affect that? Or only if Congress amends the anti-trust law?

No, it doesn't affect it in any way.

What the anti-trust rules affected for college football was when Georgia and Oklahoma sued the NCAA back in the 80s because the NCAA sold the television rights to all college football games, the schools won the lawsuit. For the same reason that the NFL lost their lawsuit back in the 60s. It is an anti-trust violation for the "governing body", be it the NFL, the NCAA, MLB, any of them, to sell television rights (or anything else for that matter) for the organization as a whole.

That is why the US pro leagues have been given limited anti-trust exemption for broadcasting rights (and MLBs exemption is much greater than that). If they didn't have one the leagues could not negotiate a league wide television deal. Every team would be free to/have to negotiate a deal on their own. That is why the conferences and not the NCAA control the broadcasting rights in college sports. The NCAA does not have an anti-trust exemption from Congress, and there is no chance at all that they are going to get one with respect to broadcasting rights. The member schools would simply not allow it, because they like the broadcasting rights resting in the hands of the conferences.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Second, there are 10-15 schools where the fans have raised their expectations to 1 or 1 loss seasons. They won't be happy with 4 losses no matter who they lose to. Each loss means that their team is inferior to the other team. 4 losses means their team is inferior to at least 4 other teams. That would be unacceptable and they would campaign to have the coaching staff fired.

That can be your opinion, but surely you understand that there is absolutely no evidence what so ever that that would be the case. It's like you think that college football fans watch sports in a vacuum and don't understand how basically the rest of the sports world works.

The only fans who would feel the way that you think everyone will feel are the idiots. And sure, there are a lot of them out there. But the vast majority of fans would adjust completely seamlessly. There is literally no evidence at all to think otherwise.

 

[NCPitt]

That can be your opinion, but surely you understand that there is absolutely no evidence what so ever that that would be the case. It's like you think that college football fans watch sports in a vacuum and don't understand how basically the rest of the sports world works.

The only fans who would feel the way that you think everyone will feel are the idiots. And sure, there are a lot of them out there. But the vast majority of fans would adjust completely seamlessly. There is literally no evidence at all to think otherwise.

Its my opinion. Its also my opinion that anyone who would think the way you do is a moron.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Its my opinion. Its also my opinion that anyone who would think the way you do is a moron.

And it's OK for you to think that.

The difference is that my opinion is based on the facts of how sports fans are, and your opinion is based on, well, your opinion and nothing else.

Believe me, I'm completely fine with someone who bases their opinions on their feeling rather than on any sort of facts or evidence thinking that I'm a moron. In fact I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't want the school to sell its soul to the devil as you recommend.

Why would it matter to you?

Currently, Pitt (and every D1 school) admits athletes who score only the minimum on the SAT and have the minimum GPA. Many Pitt athletes wouldn't have gotten into to IUP or WVU let alone Pitt if not for football. And besides that, many are passed through in majors designed simply to keep them eligible. Now, many will be paid by boosters. How have we not already sold-out? You're ok with how we and every D1 operates currently?

 

[NCPitt]

And it's OK for you to think that.

The difference is that my opinion is based on the facts of how sports fans are, and your opinion is based on, well, your opinion and nothing else.

Believe me, I'm completely fine with someone who bases their opinions on their feeling rather than on any sort of facts or evidence thinking that I'm a moron. In fact I wouldn't want it any other way.

There are no " facts of how sports fans are". That is just your opinion. I could claim that sports fans would be just as I describe since the smallest disappointment always has them calling for changes. Your feelings are no more fact than mine.

 

[NCPitt]

Why would it matter to you?

Currently, Pitt (and every D1 school) admits athletes who score only the minimum on the SAT and have the minimum GPA. Many Pitt athletes wouldn't have gotten into to IUP or WVU let alone Pitt if not for football. And besides that, many are passed through in majors designed simply to keep them eligible. Now, many will be paid by boosters. How have we not already sold-out? You're ok with how we and every D1 operates currently?

Because I'm an alumnus twice over and I value the university more than I do the football team.

I think you make stuff up to fit your narrative.

 

[DruidTM]

Great discussion but how does ExLax fit in with all this? Possibly there could be some sponsorship opportunities… ? “The 2022 NCAA championship game Brought to you by ExLax… get those logs moving today”

 

[Upg bobcat]

What the anti-trust rules affected for college football was when Georgia and Oklahoma sued the NCAA back in the 80s because the NCAA sold the television rights to all college football games, the schools won the lawsuit. For the same reason that the NFL lost their lawsuit back in the 60s. It is an anti-trust violation for the "governing body", be it the NFL, the NCAA, MLB, any of them, to sell television rights (or anything else for that matter) for the organization as a whole.

Our current supreme court is not afraid to take down precedent ... can we get them to overturn this one? As much criticism as there is that is fairly directed at the NCAA, that 80s ruling seemed to have neutered the NCAA when it comes to football and I'd rather see the NCAA have more power instead of the conferences.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

There are no " facts of how sports fans are". That is just your opinion. I could claim that sports fans would be just as I describe since the smallest disappointment always has them calling for changes. Your feelings are no more fact than mine.

Well that's just dumb. How can anyone who pays any attention at all to sports not know the way that the large majority of sports fans are? And how can anyone who pays any attention at all to sports not know that the way that you are proposing that sports fans are is in reality the way that the very small minority are?

Your whole position rests on your belief that college football fans are somehow inherently different than the fans of all the other sports. And since the vast majority of college football fans are also fans of other sports there is no reason at all to think that.

Or, well, OK, no logical reason. But you be you.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Our current supreme court is not afraid to take down precedent ... can we get them to overturn this one? As much criticism as there is that is fairly directed at the NCAA, that 80s ruling seemed to have neutered the NCAA when it comes to football and I'd rather see the NCAA have more power instead of the conferences.

They aren't going to take down that precedent. If they did it would change so much more, and so many more important things, that just college football.

And like I said, the NCAA member schools would want nothing to do with that. They absolutely do not want the NCAA to have that power. If the day would come that the Court would rule that the NCAA doesn't need an anti-trust exemption to take over the broadcasting rights to the entire sport and the NCAA would try to do that, the NCAA would cease to exist, at least at the highest level of college athletics, basically immediately.

 

[NCPitt]

Our current supreme court is not afraid to take down precedent ... can we get them to overturn this one? As much criticism as there is that is fairly directed at the NCAA, that 80s ruling seemed to have neutered the NCAA when it comes to football and I'd rather see the NCAA have more power instead of the conferences.

If anything, the courts would look to reverse the antitrust exemptions in place. Monopoly power is not viewed in a positive light.

 

[NCPitt]

Well that's just dumb. How can anyone who pays any attention at all to sports not know the way that the large majority of sports fans are? And how can anyone who pays any attention at all to sports not know that the way that you are proposing that sports fans are is in reality the way that the very small minority are?

Your whole position rests on your belief that college football fans are somehow inherently different than the fans of all the other sports. And since the vast majority of college football fans are also fans of other sports there is no reason at all to think that.

Or, well, OK, no logical reason. But you be you.

I do know how the majority think. It isn't in line with your thinking.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

If anything, the courts would look to reverse the antitrust exemptions in place. Monopoly power is not viewed in a positive light.

That is correct. There is a far better chance that sports leagues will lose at least some of their anti-trust exemptions than additional exemptions are going to be given.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I do know how the majority think. It isn't in line with your thinking.

Please explain why you think that college football fans, who are also almost certainly fans of pro football and college basketball and the like, will not be able to understand that teams with more than one loss will be able to compete for a championship and will rebel if their team loses a couple of games, even if their team still makes the playoffs.

It simply doesn't make any sense.