The facts of life concerning Capel & Pitt basketball

[pittmeister]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

 

[Parkview57]

There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately.

True, the problem has been that they have to want to come here.

 

[PittMan 72]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

Your analysis is correct. It absolutely can work both ways regarding player movement.

And there are going to be a LOT more players from all over CBB who enter the Portal over the coming weeks and months.

Pitt will need to be keenly aware of all the opportunities that arise and be very astute about things.

 

[20-20Hindsight]

My issue with Capel is that his teams lack an identity, and are largely undisciplined. Undisciplined meaning that there seems to be no accountability placed on any player's effort and decision making. With regard to an identity, I mean seriously, what is one facet of the game that is evident where Capel places a huge emphasis? Maybe defense, but even then, it's inconsistent and fleeting. That zone we played against NC State looked like it was never practiced, and was drawn up in the locker room before the game. We're still awful at defending the high screen. Rebounding / boxing out? oh gosh, no. Taking care of the ball? Sheesh, no. Offensive sets, screening, cutting, moving without the ball? Hell no. For as much as we seem to want to push the ball, we have no evidence of a structured secondary break. I could go on...

 

[Straight Eye Larry]

Buzz left Mike Young an empty cupboard and he turned them around in a year. There's no excuse as this point.

 

[pittmeister]

My issue with Capel is that his teams lack an identity, and are largely undisciplined. Undisciplined meaning that there seems to be no accountability placed on any player's effort and decision making. With regard to an identity, I mean seriously, what is one facet of the game that is evident where Capel places a huge emphasis? Maybe defense, but even then, it's inconsistent and fleeting. That zone we played against NC State looked like it was never practiced, and was drawn up in the locker room before the game. We're still awful at defending the high screen. Rebounding / boxing out? oh gosh, no. Taking care of the ball? Sheesh, no. Offensive sets, screening, cutting, moving without the ball? Hell no. For as much as we seem to want to push the ball, we have no evidence of a structured secondary break. I could go on...

Good point...

 

[gary2]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

Can't we find, dig up (pay for) some old, burried evidence of Capel cheating at Oklahoma and act shocked that gambling is taking place in Casablanca?

Maybe we can say Capel was asked about it in his interview with us and misled us.

Yeh. Thats the ticket, He assumed his position under false premises.

 

[caleco's]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

disappointed by this post. i really thoughy we were going to here some life lesson quotes by Mrs Garett , tootie and natalie.

 

[pittizit]

Buzz left Mike Young an empty cupboard and he turned them around in a year. There's no excuse as this point.

Agree and he’s in that crap hole Blacksburg...no comparison

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

good points.

My thoughts. Capel does not strike me as a coach em up type, developing talent to be part of the system like Dixon did. Nor will he win games with his game day coaching acumen. So the main thing you hope for with Capel is that the recruiting would really take off. It seemed like there were glimmers of hope, but then the misses started like Davis to UNC, Horton to Purdue and now maybe losing Schifino and the big o-fer in the 2021 class

So if he can't recruit above average talent, I don't see much hope of ever making the NCAA with him as coach. You can't fire him, but man next year looks bleak. He needs to get Schifino...bring out all his dirty tricks he may have used in past stops. And another impact player in 2022. That will be the make or break year. if 2022-2023 is another 5-13 or 4-14 campaign, you have to cut ties in year 5.

 

[TD_6082]

I don't think Schifino would make much of a difference at this point. I think Capel gets year 4 because of Covid, being well liked, etc... and his insane buyout. It appears the writing is on the wall though. He needs to win at least 2 of the remaining games and have Champ come back just to give fans a glimmer of hope that he can still right the ship.

 

[Parkview57]

If Champ comes back to this, with the hopes of securing an NIT bid, they should retire his number

 

[Pittisit4me]

If Champ comes back to this, with the hopes of securing an NIT bid, they should retire his number

Yep. That would be a serious surprise. That said, this team has been playing largely without any inside game on offense since Blair left. We didn't even use big Steve as a post up guy. We need an inside game. I have little hope in seeing real improvement here until Capel gets a center. We need a bag man.

I am so sick of watching a team of small forwards. Can we get someone bigger than 6' 8" with some skill. If we can't we should move down to the A-10 or something. How the hell does every team we play, even lower level teams, have a bigger and better inside player than we do?

Since we have no players left and no recruiting class, I don't know how anyone could have any faith in this program and its coaches. We are cratering again, and yet I say keep Capel and let him figure it out. I would rather take a chance playing Russian Roulette than trust this University to make a good hire.

Our basketball program is now joining our football program in going dormant and they may remain in that state just as long as the football program, which is going on 40+ years now.

 

[thebadby2]

My issue with Capel is that his teams lack an identity, and are largely undisciplined. Undisciplined meaning that there seems to be no accountability placed on any player's effort and decision making. With regard to an identity, I mean seriously, what is one facet of the game that is evident where Capel places a huge emphasis? Maybe defense, but even then, it's inconsistent and fleeting. That zone we played against NC State looked like it was never practiced, and was drawn up in the locker room before the game. We're still awful at defending the high screen. Rebounding / boxing out? oh gosh, no. Taking care of the ball? Sheesh, no. Offensive sets, screening, cutting, moving without the ball? Hell no. For as much as we seem to want to push the ball, we have no evidence of a structured secondary break. I could go on...

Well said.

As I’ve said before, he’s trying to run Duke’s free motion offense without the players that can make it work.

Works real well with 5 future NBA starters who can all score one on one on the floor.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Buzz left Mike Young an empty cupboard and he turned them around in a year. There's no excuse as this point.

But but but Buzz won a lot of games with players who Mike Young never got a chance to meet, so he had an easy job, haven't you heard?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

good points.

My thoughts. Capel does not strike me as a coach em up type, developing talent to be part of the system like Dixon did. Nor will he win games with his game day coaching acumen. So the main thing you hope for with Capel is that the recruiting would really take off. It seemed like there were glimmers of hope, but then the misses started like Davis to UNC, Horton to Purdue and now maybe losing Schifino and the big o-fer in the 2021 class

So if he can't recruit above average talent, I don't see much hope of ever making the NCAA with him as coach. You can't fire him, but man next year looks bleak. He needs to get Schifino...bring out all his dirty tricks he may have used in past stops. And another impact player in 2022. That will be the make or break year. if 2022-2023 is another 5-13 or 4-14 campaign, you have to cut ties in year 5.

Hypothetically what if we go 2-18 next year and the 2022 class is middle of the road or worse?

 

[PittPoker]

My issue with Capel is that his teams lack an identity, and are largely undisciplined. Undisciplined meaning that there seems to be no accountability placed on any player's effort and decision making. With regard to an identity, I mean seriously, what is one facet of the game that is evident where Capel places a huge emphasis? Maybe defense, but even then, it's inconsistent and fleeting. That zone we played against NC State looked like it was never practiced, and was drawn up in the locker room before the game. We're still awful at defending the high screen. Rebounding / boxing out? oh gosh, no. Taking care of the ball? Sheesh, no. Offensive sets, screening, cutting, moving without the ball? Hell no. For as much as we seem to want to push the ball, we have no evidence of a structured secondary break. I could go on...

Wow such a great accurate post.

 

[PittPoker]

disappointed by this post. i really thoughy we were going to here some life lesson quotes by Mrs Garett , tootie and natalie.

You forgot Blair and Jo.

 

[HOF Coach]

You forgot Blair and Jo.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Can't we find, dig up (pay for) some old, burried evidence of Capel cheating at Oklahoma and act shocked that gambling is taking place in Casablanca?

Maybe we can say Capel was asked about it in his interview with us and misled us.

Yeh. Thats the ticket, He assumed his position under false premises.

Getting rid of Capel would only solve half of the problem. This is clearly a very difficult place to win. After our recent history, I highly doubt we'd get anyone really primed to immediately win here. Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle like Dixon, but at this point I worry that we may not even get a back-of-their-career veteran like Stallings. It's just a mess right now.

 

[Pitt79]

I agree, who you gonna get, especially if you're not willing to pay big or cheat. My question is, why do these players want out? They've been with him a couple years, the environment that's so bad they want to go has to be on him at least partly.

 

[Pitt79]

Our basketball program is now joining our football program in going dormant and they may remain in that state just as long as the football program, which is going on 40+ years now.

We need to hire an AD and Chancellor from some southern school, with a good ole boy attitude of putting winning in football and sports in general above academics, and meaning MENS SPORTS, football and basketball and drop the woke attitude

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

I think you're overrating his track record just a bit. He had the best player in the game, who was more than likely acquired by illegal means, during his big year at OU. He imploded with three McDonald's All-Americans on his roster the following year. Drama and late-season collapses have followed him around. His last five season will have been non-winning seasons... in a sport where you can really pad the wins early on. I don't know; tough for me to give him an unconditional vote of confidence based on what VCU did in a weak A10 almost 20 years ago.

 

[gary2]

Getting rid of Capel would only solve half of the problem. This is clearly a very difficult place to win. After our recent history, I highly doubt we'd get anyone really primed to immediately win here. Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle like Dixon, but at this point I worry that we may not even get a back-of-their-career veteran like Stallings. It's just a mess right now.

I think you need to find someone moving up like Narduzzi, only a better coaching coach. Someone with ties to the area not anxious to move on.

Knight would fit the part, but I don’t know that he can coach.

The Robert Morris coach definitely can coach and has demonstrated a keen eye for talent. I recognize his record has been unimpressive.

The fan base would not be satisfied with this “type” of hire, but I think it is the way to go.

Find someone on the way up with the primary question can they coach. Only interview those that understand and are willing to be a long term part of our community and culture.

No Todd Graham’s.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I think you're overrating his track record just a bit. He had the best player in the game, who was more than likely acquired by illegal means, during his big year at OU. He imploded with three McDonald's All-Americans on his roster the following year. Drama and late-season collapses have followed him around. His last five season will have been non-winning seasons... in a sport where you can really pad the wins early on. I don't know; tough for me to give him an unconditional vote of confidence based on what VCU did in a weak A10 almost 20 years ago.

Not solely directed at you, but why do some people consistently point to Oklahoma and say he only won because he "had the best player in the country."

Aren't you missing the point that he "had the best player in the country?" Should he be penalized for having the best player in the country? His wins don't matter because he had the best player in the country?

Doesn't everyone want the best player in the country? How many guys actually have the best player in the country?

It's like the.... well, take away all the Barry Sanders 70 yard runs and he was a pretty average RB.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Not solely directed at you, but why do some people consistently point to Oklahoma and say he only won because he "had the best player in the country."

Aren't you missing the point that he "had the best player in the country?" Should he be penalized for having the best player in the country? His wins don't matter because he had the best player in the country?

Doesn't everyone want the best player in the country? How many guys actually have the best player in the country?

It's like the.... well, take away all the Barry Sanders 70 yard runs and he was a pretty average RB.

I think the point is 1) That he was possibly acquired via using improper benefits, and 2) That if Capel's coaching success is dependent upon having 5-stars, that would be unfortunate, because we aren't getting any of those right now.

So, while it might not detract from his overall legacy, I don't think it provides much hope in the context of his current situation.

 

[gary2]

Not solely directed at you, but why do some people consistently point to Oklahoma and say he only won because he "had the best player in the country."

Aren't you missing the point that he "had the best player in the country?" Should he be penalized for having the best player in the country? His wins don't matter because he had the best player in the country?

Doesn't everyone want the best player in the country? How many guys actually have the best player in the country?

It's like the.... well, take away all the Barry Sanders 70 yard runs and he was a pretty average RB.

I like you as a poster but you totally ignored the person you were replying to when he effective asked:

How does the best player in the country end up at Oklahoma?

Then...You proceed to berate him? (Sorta passive aggressively)

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I think the point is 1) That he was possibly acquired via using improper benefits, and 2) That if Capel's coaching success is dependent upon having 5-stars, that would be unfortunate, because we aren't getting any of those right now.

I don't care how he was acquired, because that's how all those guys are acquired. Do we know that Capel needs 5 stars to be successful? I don't.

I've been critical of him as well, and he deserves some criticism. He also deserves credit for when he won.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I like you as a poster but you totally ignored the person you were replying to when he effective asked:

How does the best player in the country end up at Oklahoma?

Then...You proceed to berate him? (Sorta passive aggressively)

Posted above, I don't care how he got there. If my post came across as berating him, that wasn't the intent. I just don't understand the mentality.

 

[gary2]

Posted above, I don't care how he got there. If my post came across as berating him, that wasn't the intent. I just don't understand the mentality.

Your position is certainly understandable given the long time landscape of college basketball.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Some of these have been mentioned by me and others but let me summarize:

-First point and this is an important one... Capel ain’t going anywhere... He’s not going to be fired... Period. His contract will not be bought out. We will sink or swim with him. So you better support him and hope for the best.

-After watching the last coaching search unfold, there is nobody beating the door to come to Pitt. Most coaches know how difficult it is to win in the ACC. Unless you are Duke, North Carolina or another of the blue bloods in the ACC, they are very reluctant to make a move...

-Having said that, Capel has a great pedigree and a track record for success.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jeff-capel-1.html

-Does he need to do a better job of bringing in the right players to Pitt? Yes. The players leaving falls on him. He brought them into the fold.

-With transfers being what they are today, you can turn things around to a respectable level very quickly. There are a lot of players in the portal that can help Pitt immediately. It works both ways...

My thoughts exactly. Jeff Capel isn't Kevin Stallings. I don't know how his tenure ends up but I'm not willing to pass final judgement yet.

To me, the only problem I have with the exodus is that he recruited these kids that obviously didn't want to be here. Hopefully he realized the error (seems like he has with the kids he's recruited since).

Recruiting for 21 and 22 is going to tell us everything. I'm willing to wait and see how it shakes out.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

I don't care how he was acquired, because that's how all those guys are acquired. Do we know that Capel needs 5 stars to be successful? I don't.

I've been critical of him as well, and he deserves some criticism. He also deserves credit for when he won.

Record as a P6 basketball coach without Blake Griffin: 82-96
Record as a P6 basketball coach with Blake Griffin: 53 - 18

I mean, I'm pretty comfortable saying that he hasn't been all that great of a coach without Blake Griffin, whom we aren't bringing to Pitt any time soon.

 

[Pitt79]

It's like the.... well, take away all the Barry Sanders 70 yard runs and he was a pretty average RB.

LOL, that was the knock on Willie Parker during his best years, "but he sucks if you take away those five 80 yard TD runs''.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

LOL, that was the knock on Willie Parker during his best years, "but he sucks if you take away those five 80 yard TD runs''.

Right, but if you put 20-pound ankle weights on him (i.e. Capel's recruiting at Pitt v.s. the shady stuff his group was doing at OU), then those 80-yard runs aren't really relevant anymore. So I don't think his analogy really holds up, unless, again, we're talking about it from a strict legacy standpoint.

 

[TD_6082]

Not solely directed at you, but why do some people consistently point to Oklahoma and say he only won because he "had the best player in the country."

Aren't you missing the point that he "had the best player in the country?" Should he be penalized for having the best player in the country? His wins don't matter because he had the best player in the country?

Doesn't everyone want the best player in the country? How many guys actually have the best player in the country?

It's like the.... well, take away all the Barry Sanders 70 yard runs and he was a pretty average RB.

I think a lot of Capel critics tend discount that some because Blake was an easy sell for Capel at OU. Blake's older brother was already at OU and he was basically a hometown guy. They should probably point to Capel's record at OU without BG, which was 43-51.

 

[Pitt79]

I would be OK with getting a great season with "shady stuff" even if it was later "vacated" and Capel was fired, at least we'd have FUN for that one year, instead of constant misery

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Record as a P6 basketball coach without Blake Griffin: 82-96
Record as a P6 basketball coach with Blake Griffin: 53 - 18

I mean, I'm pretty comfortable saying that he hasn't been all that great of a coach without Blake Griffin, whom we aren't bringing to Pitt any time soon.

So you've vacated 17 of his wins too, while only considering P6 records - even though Pitt wasn't even at dumpster fire level when he got here.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I think the point is 1) That he was possibly acquired via using improper benefits, and 2) That if Capel's coaching success is dependent upon having 5-stars, that would be unfortunate, because we aren't getting any of those right now.

So, while it might not detract from his overall legacy, I don't think it provides much hope in the context of his current situation.

Don’t all the best coaches seem to coach 5* players ?

Great coaches with ordinary players don’t win championships .

Seems to me with the recruitment of these special players there’s almost always some scuttlebutt about improper benefits being paid .

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

So you've vacated 17 of his wins too, while only considering P6 records - even though Pitt wasn't even at dumpster fire level when he got here.

What wins did I vacate? I gave him all 13 of his 2009-2010 wins. Had I not, his record without Griffin would have been 69-96.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Don’t all the best coaches seem to coach 5* players ?

Great coaches with ordinary players don’t win championships .

Seems to me with the recruitment of these special players there’s almost always some scuttlebutt about improper benefits being paid .

That's fine. But unless Pitt is willing to engage in such activity, again, it becomes irrelevant to the point.

As I've specified, it's not about evaluating his legacy; it's about what he can and will do at Pitt. If having to play it clean is saddling him, then it does us very little good.