The problem with the Pirates

[mike 301]

Last I saw . 45,000 fans signed the petition to boycott Nutting run Pirates .

They just recently came off a home series that featured the Giants and Cutch and packed them in .
Tonight ... You could probably count the attendance .

Is it a result of the petition or just the result of , since 2015 after a 90 plus season people are just sick of Nutting's crap ?

I am guessing but since that respectable season , they have made close to 100 mil. in profits .

 

[PhPanther2]

Force him to sell. Never show up and never buy 1 article of bucco apparel. If you care about Pittsburghor the Pirates, you’ll turn your cheek to anything related to them.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Force him to sell

The funny thing is that there are people who actually are dumb enough to think that they are going to force him to sell.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

The funny thing is that there are people who actually are dumb enough to think that they are going to force him to sell.

Yep. Someone can feel free to correct me if this is wrong, but it's my understanding that Nutting is guaranteed a profit whether he puts butts in seats or he doesn't. If the report that I read is true, then attendance is nothing more than gravy.

The guy is crazy like a fox. Why would he sell? He's apparently incapable of being embarrassed publicly, so no amount of pressure from the public - or the media - would do any good.

 

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

I think that homestand was packed because of cutch and only cutch.

As tradition I went to the home opener.... I haven’t missed one in years. But I won’t go to another game the rest of the year.

The team has over achieved to this point but they have ZERO pitching and I don’t expect this to last

 

[mike 301]

Yep. Someone can feel free to correct me if this is wrong, but it's my understanding that Nutting is guaranteed a profit whether he puts butts in seats or he doesn't. If the report that I read is true, then attendance is nothing more than gravy.

The guy is crazy like a fox. Why would he sell? He's apparently incapable of being embarrassed publicly, so no amount of pressure from the public - or the media - would do any good.

You are correct .
But that in itself should be grounds for mob to step in .

 

[mike 301]

You are correct .
But that in itself should be grounds for mob to step in .

Sorry MLB .

Freudien slip ?

 

[PhPanther2]

Yep. Someone can feel free to correct me if this is wrong, but it's my understanding that Nutting is guaranteed a profit whether he puts butts in seats or he doesn't. If the report that I read is true, then attendance is nothing more than gravy.

The guy is crazy like a fox. Why would he sell? He's apparently incapable of being embarrassed publicly, so no amount of pressure from the public - or the media - would do any good.

Why stop at attendance? Why not stop buying merchandise and stop watching games on tv? You really think he would be guaranteed a profit if he received $0 from tickets and merchandise + tv contracts were going going downhill due to no viewership? They don’t make that much off of revenue sharing.

 

[upj87]

Force him to sell. Never show up and never buy 1 article of bucco apparel. If you care about Pittsburghor the Pirates, you’ll turn your cheek to anything related to them.

I always rooted for the Pirates and not the owner...still do. btw..tied for first place in the NL Central.

 

[BBG65]

I know it could go sour, but I think they have a good, young team and said so before the season. Cole is a big loss, but they have some pretty good young pitchers and McCutcheon really wasn't a loss. I'm curious to see what they'll do when Jung Ho Kang is ready to come back.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I'm curious to see what they'll do when Jung Ho Kang is ready to come back.

Is that a subject of the talks between North and South Korea?

 

[mike 301]

Go away old people and let us enjoy our professional baseball team without your grumpy old asses bellyaching about the same thing over and over. if it wasn't this, you'd be complaining about something else. All you are to normal fans is noise..

This is actually comical.
Spoken like someone who has never actually seen a major league team that wins championships in this city . Go away young person .
So naive . Lol.

 

[Swervin27]

This is actually comical.
Spoken like someone who has never actually seen a major league team that wins championships in this city . Go away young person .
So naive . Lol.

I've never seen a major league team in championships in this city? You mean in baseball or any sport? Steelers and pens win em all the time, my 6 year old has seen plenty.

if you are talking about baseball well I was too young to remember '79 so you have a point. I like baseball and I like Pittsburgh, hence im a pirate fan and will enjoy when MY TEAM plays well, which they are doing. you want to belly-ache about the good old days, go to the local American legion and bore those guys with old man stories over 60 cent drafts. WE DONT CARE.

oh and im not young, wish I was. I just realized I am now older than Billy Crystal was when he filmed "When Harry Met Sally." That hit me hard, real hard.

 

[mike 301]

I've never seen a major league team in championships in this city? You mean in baseball or any sport? Steelers and pens win em all the time, my 6 year old has seen plenty.

if you are talking about baseball well I was too young to remember '79 so you have a point. I like baseball and I like Pittsburgh, hence im a pirate fan and will enjoy when MY TEAM plays well, which they are doing. you want to belly-ache about the good old days, go to the local American legion and bore those guys with old man stories over 60 cent drafts. WE DONT CARE.

oh and im not young, wish I was. I just realized I am now older than Billy Crystal was when he filmed "When Harry Met Sally." That hit me hard, real hard.

Yeah I was referring to major league baseball .

I'm not bellyaching and I don't have a membership to the American legion .
I like baseball and I also like Pittsburgh but I certainly know when to realize when an owner is making a huge profit year in and year out then makes a huge salary dump rather than investing when they are that close (2015) that he doesn't give a shit about championships .

By the way wasn't Crystal like 55 when he made that idiotic flick ?

 

[upj87]

You are correct .
But that in itself should be grounds for mob to step in .

yep, Joe Richguyski wants to buy and keep the team in town (small market town mind you) after the locals ran off the previous owner via mob rule ...got it.

 

[Swervin27]

Yeah I was referring to major league baseball .

I'm not bellyaching and I don't have a membership to the American legion .
I like baseball and I also like Pittsburgh but I certainly know when to realize when an owner is making a huge profit year in and year out then makes a huge salary dump rather than investing when they are that close (2015) that he doesn't give a shit about championships .

By the way wasn't Crystal like 55 when he made that idiotic flick ?

You'd have thought. Born in '48, movie was filmed in 1989 making him 41 at the time. im 41 (or 42, not sure and I don't want to count). sickening. it's a chick flick for sure so don't ask me why I was watching it. maybe the last movie ever where Carrie Fisher looked good in. oh wait, she was decent in The Burbs, scratch that.

 

[mike 301]

yep, Joe Richguyski wants to buy and keep the team in town (small market town mind you) after the locals ran off the previous owner via mob rule ...got it.

Joe Richguyski . That's funny . It was .
No but didn't mlb actually look into this at one time ?
The GM was quoted as saying that they actually used the profits to "reinvest" in the org.
Better minor league facilities , scouting , duct tape for the wings of the plane used for the Puerto Rican team ... Money well "reinvested" .
Where'd that get them ? Got it ...

 

[pittdan77]

I know it could go sour, but I think they have a good, young team and said so before the season. Cole is a big loss, but they have some pretty good young pitchers and McCutcheon really wasn't a loss. I'm curious to see what they'll do when Jung Ho Kang is ready to come back.

Same basic narrative, different names and different season. Refresh, recycle, repeat. Wheels will fall off like they almost always do.

 

[mike 301]

Same basic narrative, different names and different season. Refresh, recycle, repeat. Wheels will fall off like they almost always do.

Yeah . I would honestly hope not , but as we saw last night it was only a matter of time until 2 of the hottest hitters get dinged up .
Nothing you could do about Cervelli .
Marte ? It's always something .

 

[pittmeister]

Problems with the Pirates?!?!?!

My God, have we run out of problems to talk about concerning Pitt?!?!??!

I never thought I'd live long enough for that to happen...

 

[Saboteur]

Force him to sell. Never show up and never buy 1 article of bucco apparel. If you care about Pittsburghor the Pirates, you’ll turn your cheek to anything related to them.

Anyone who buys the team should move it. Is that your goal? I don't get your logic...it's classic nose cutting stuff.
Last I looked they were off to their best start since the early 90's.
But in Pittsburgh people would rather lose than win...I guess I missed the Parade for the 2017 World Champion Pirates. Can you send me your photos of Cutch and his WS MVP trophy? Many thanks.

 

[pittdan77]

Yeah . I would honestly hope not , but as we saw last night it was only a matter of time until 2 of the hottest hitters get dinged up .
Nothing you could do about Cervelli .
Marte ? It's always something .

I don't honestly gave up on them over twenty years ago so I don't follow that closely except to see the same, sad, general progression of events every summer. I'm really proud that I haven't wasted a single dime on that mess in that time period and I'm only slightly less likely to wear Penn State gear as I am Pirate gear.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

This is a solid young team. Dickerson is better than a Cutch and while Cole is tearing it up with the Astros, the return on his expiring contract was solid and our rotation from top to bottom is better even without Musgrove.

Those still boycotting over Cutch and Cole are casual baseball fans.

 

[PhPanther2]

This is a solid young team. Dickerson is better than a Cutch and while Cole is tearing it up with the Astros, the return on his expiring contract was solid and our rotation from top to bottom is better even without Musgrove.

Those still boycotting over Cutch and Cole are casual baseball fans.

Cutch and Cole?
It started with me being escorted out of a game after laying into McClatchey for a few innings. I’ll go back when they get an ownership that is willing to SPEND like they want to win. People used to use the excuse about how they overpay during the draft, that’s why their payroll isn’t middle of the pack.... but now that that has gone away, what’s the reason? Their own internal players openly utilized the media to display their frustration with ownership. Call me when a real owner comes in, then i’ll take in a few games with the neices and nephews. Until then, baseball has been dead for about 25 years for me.

Good luck to those that can stomach this mess.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It started with me being escorted out of a game after laying into McClatchey for a few innings.

OK, now your posts make a lot more sense. You're one of those people.

 

[upj87]

OK, now your posts make a lot more sense. You're one of those people.

Randy Marsh at a little league game comes to mind.

 

[PhPanther2]

OK, now your posts make a lot more sense. You're one of those people.

And proud of it.
You keep living life scared.

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

Randy Marsh at a little league game comes to mind.

PhPanther2: “Is PNC Park communist?!? I thought this was America!”

 

[Swervin27]

It’s fun to watch all of these miserable people who were hoping for the pirates to stink to lose their minds.

Pirates winning infuriates them and all they can comeback with is this nonsense of them telling us how they won’t go to anymore games. Love it. Please keep posting fellas, your agony amuses me.

 

[upj87]

It’s fun to watch all of these miserable people who were hoping for the pirates to stink to lose their minds.

Pirates winning infuriates them and all they can comeback with is this nonsense of them telling us how they won’t go to anymore games. Love it. Please keep posting fellas, your agony amuses me.

it reminds me of something going on nationwide right now but I just can't put my finger on it...

 

[jtownknowitall]

Those still boycotting over Cutch and Cole are casual baseball fans.

No, they're not. The Pirates have lost a significant number of real baseball fans over the past three years.

 

[pittdan77]

It’s fun to watch all of these miserable people who were hoping for the pirates to stink to lose their minds.

Pirates winning infuriates them and all they can comeback with is this nonsense of them telling us how they won’t go to anymore games. Love it. Please keep posting fellas, your agony amuses me.

Nobody is infuriated with winning. The Pirates haven't won anything in 26 years.

 

[upj87]

Nobody is infuriated with winning. The Pirates haven't won anything in 26 years.

yeah and the red sox and cubs did not win world series for nearly a century each... don't remember their "fans" being such whiny beyotches (oh, I'll never watch them or buy their crap, time for insurrection yada yada yada) about it though...

 

[FreeportPanther]

When/if Kang comes back, if he's the same player, they can platoon him at third, go right lefty with Moran.
And Nutting isn't going to sell this team. He's going to leave it to his kids because it is the gift that keeps on giving! Guaranteed a profit whether fans show up or not. And fans will show up, especially if the team continues to play like this.
Crystal ball the future all you want, the team is playing good baseball, and it's far enough into the season to say it isn't a fluke.
The team may get better yet when Harrison comes back, and if Musgrove can get into the rotation and eat some innings.
It will be interesting to see if they make any moves at the deadline if they are close. The protests/petition may squeeze a few more nickels out of Nutting this year than before. Or he could just give everyone the middle finger and keep doing what he does.
In any event, it wasn't that long ago when there was the very real possibility of the Pirates leaving town. The gift of PNC Park solved that problem, and now Nutting has settled in and he ain't going nowhere, period.
I doubt even the majority of the 45,000 people who signed that petition have "given up" on the Pirates, probably a lot of them have gone to games, and most have watched on TV. A few noisy tin cans rattle on, but they are missing some fun baseball from a young team that is playing well. Their loss!

 

[joeydavid]

The problem with the Pirates' fans... It's baseball. That's it, nothing else. They should be judged on whether they are winning or losing and that's it.

The obsession with the ownership and how they spend money shouldn't be the topic. Especially not a point of contention when they are winning.

Using the "Pirate don't spend enough on their budget" logic. The movie "A Quiet Place" was made on a $17 million budget. Pirates fans would have boycotted the theaters and missed a pretty entertaining show. It's idiotic to me.

When/if Kang comes back, if he's the same player, they can platoon him at third, go right lefty with Moran.
And Nutting isn't going to sell this team. He's going to leave it to his kids because it is the gift that keeps on giving! Guaranteed a profit whether fans show up or not. And fans will show up, especially if the team continues to play like this.
Crystal ball the future all you want, the team is playing good baseball, and it's far enough into the season to say it isn't a fluke.
The team may get better yet when Harrison comes back, and if Musgrove can get into the rotation and eat some innings.
It will be interesting to see if they make any moves at the deadline if they are close. The protests/petition may squeeze a few more nickels out of Nutting this year than before. Or he could just give everyone the middle finger and keep doing what he does.
In any event, it wasn't that long ago when there was the very real possibility of the Pirates leaving town. The gift of PNC Park solved that problem, and now Nutting has settled in and he ain't going nowhere, period.
I doubt even the majority of the 45,000 people who signed that petition have "given up" on the Pirates, probably a lot of them have gone to games, and most have watched on TV. A few noisy tin cans rattle on, but they are missing some fun baseball from a young team that is playing well. Their loss!

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

It is annoying that they didn’t spend in 2012-2016 but the Pirates biggest problem is acquisition and development of amateur talent, be it international FA or via draft. Here is a good and objective piece from ESPN that lays out: http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/...eal-reason-the-rays-and-pirates-arent-winning

According to thebaseballgauge.com, the Pirates produced the least amount of talent in the major leagues in 2017: Just 12.3 WAR came from players originally signed or drafted by the Pirates. The Cubs led the majors with 58.1 WAR. That disparity explains the 17-win difference between the Cubs and Pirates a lot more than Nutting’s unwillingness to increase the club’s payroll.

After the Pirates drafted Neil Walker in the first round in 2004 and McCutchen in 2005, they had eight picks in the top 10 of the draft from 2006 to 2013, but those players have combined for just 23.0 career WAR.

 

[joeydavid]

That's a fair piece. If (big if) they continue at their current pace and win 95 games; they will be averaging 88 wins over the last 6 seasons. And that's with a season being torpedoed with cancer, a 3rd DUI and suspension.

It is annoying that they didn’t spend in 2012-2016 but the Pirates biggest problem is acquisition and development of amateur talent, be it international FA or via draft. Here is a good and objective piece from ESPN that lays out: http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/...eal-reason-the-rays-and-pirates-arent-winning

According to thebaseballgauge.com, the Pirates produced the least amount of talent in the major leagues in 2017: Just 12.3 WAR came from players originally signed or drafted by the Pirates. The Cubs led the majors with 58.1 WAR. That disparity explains the 17-win difference between the Cubs and Pirates a lot more than Nutting’s unwillingness to increase the club’s payroll.

After the Pirates drafted Neil Walker in the first round in 2004 and McCutchen in 2005, they had eight picks in the top 10 of the draft from 2006 to 2013, but those players have combined for just 23.0 career WAR.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You keep living life scared.

So the proof that you don't live your life scared is the fact that you are willing to make an ass of yourself by yelling at someone you don't know because they didn't provide you with sufficient entertainment?

Similar to before, I don't know which is funnier, the fact that you are so pathetic or the fact that you are so damn proud of being pathetic.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It is annoying that they didn’t spend in 2012-2016 but the Pirates biggest problem is acquisition and development of amateur talent, be it international FA or via draft. Here is a good and objective piece from ESPN that lays out: http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/...eal-reason-the-rays-and-pirates-arent-winning

According to thebaseballgauge.com, the Pirates produced the least amount of talent in the major leagues in 2017: Just 12.3 WAR came from players originally signed or drafted by the Pirates. The Cubs led the majors with 58.1 WAR. That disparity explains the 17-win difference between the Cubs and Pirates a lot more than Nutting’s unwillingness to increase the club’s payroll.

After the Pirates drafted Neil Walker in the first round in 2004 and McCutchen in 2005, they had eight picks in the top 10 of the draft from 2006 to 2013, but those players have combined for just 23.0 career WAR.

Amen. And Owner Bob Nutting brought back the entire crew. I think the Pirates sometimes do good by accident sometimes. The 98 win team, was it really that good? But they won 98 games, and you can't take that away from them.

That is part of my issue with the Pirates. It is obvious to me that ownership has defined their business plan and mode of operations, and winning a championship is way down the list, or it is at least a lottery dream, not something that is a planned priority.

The drafting and development of Huntingdon and company sucks. And for a franchise who won't spend on prime free agents or even entertain trading young guys for established players, that is deadly.

I was not upset they traded McCutcheon, I was upset that after 2015 when it was apparent they weren't going to spend to add on to the 98 win team, they should have traded him then and got better return.

I was not upset by the Cole trade. Especially with how he pitched up to that point, the Pirates aren't going to offer a 200 million dollar contract to anyone, let alone a pitcher.

I am upset that when you were losing 3/5's of a rotation from a 98 win team, you decide Jon Niese, Ryan Vogelson and Jeff Locke was the answer.

Everything that comes out of this front office is pure doublespeak BS. And insults.

That being said, I am enjoying them winning right now. I am watching. Not going, but watching. But their schedule has really been light so far, which has helped the great start. And sometimes that is what it takes. It is nice to see a team take advantage of this, unlike the football team that is the main point of emphasis for this board. Ahem.......

But a tough stretch of 20 games is coming up. If the Pirates can go .500, they will be in a really good spot. Even if they say go 18-22. But where I, and I think alot of others are waiting is coming out of June and then the All Star break, if the Pirates are still contenders, do they add? Or they pare salary again? Because at some point, this "financial flexibility" that they love to tout, well it has to be cashed in at the table. But they haven't and that is why they (the Pirates) have lost the faith of many fans. You know their perfect season is about $100 million in payroll, 88 wins, just good enough to contend to the end, maybe squeak a WC game. Max profits. That's their idea of winning a championship.

 

[pbrad]

If not for McClatchey they would be the Charlotte Pirates. He just had a poor front office. Nutting has found a gold mine, no matter what you do you make millions. The weather, not the play, has kept attendance down. Baseball relies on the casual fan for attendance bumps, they know the die hards will always be there. If the Bucs keep this up, attendance will increase with good summer weather.