The problem with the Pirates

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

If not for McClatchey they would be the Charlotte Pirates. He just had a poor front office. Nutting has found a gold mine, no matter what you do you make millions. The weather, not the play, has kept attendance down. Baseball relies on the casual fan for attendance bumps, they know the die hards will always be there. If the Bucs keep this up, attendance will increase with good summer weather.

It was a beautiful night last night. They are playing well. There were less than 12K in the stands. I don't think it is has anything to do with weather now or play on the field. Just people no longer support and trust this ownership. This is not the first sports franchise that this has happened.

 

[HailToPitt725]

FWIW, their 26-17 start is the best record they’ve had in who knows how long, including all three playoff seasons from 2013-15. Two of those years actually had a losing record through 43 games.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Cutch and Cole?
It started with me being escorted out of a game after laying into McClatchey for a few innings. I’ll go back when they get an ownership that is willing to SPEND like they want to win. People used to use the excuse about how they overpay during the draft, that’s why their payroll isn’t middle of the pack.... but now that that has gone away, what’s the reason? Their own internal players openly utilized the media to display their frustration with ownership. Call me when a real owner comes in, then i’ll take in a few games with the neices and nephews. Until then, baseball has been dead for about 25 years for me.

Good luck to those that can stomach this mess.

You got escorted out of a game?

That’s shameful for you.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

And proud of it.
You keep living life scared.

Proud of being an uncivilized idiot ?
Weird.

 

[upj87]

It was a beautiful night last night. They are playing well. There were less than 12K in the stands. I don't think it is has anything to do with weather now or play on the field. Just people no longer support and trust this ownership. This is not the first sports franchise that this has happened.

"Hey, the Buccos are hot, whadda say we go to a game this weekend?"..."nah, I'd like to, but their ownership gives me the willies" ...this "attendance" post and the letter "Z" was amazingly brought to you today by a "Pitt football" fan...

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

"Hey, the Buccos are hot, whadda say we go to a game this weekend?"..."nah, I'd like to, but their ownership gives me the willies" ...this "attendance" post and the letter "Z" was amazingly brought to you today by a "Pitt football" fan...

Ha

 

[FreeportPanther]

It was a beautiful night last night. They are playing well. There were less than 12K in the stands. I don't think it is has anything to do with weather now or play on the field. Just people no longer support and trust this ownership. This is not the first sports franchise that this has happened.

Getting back to the initial post, The Problem with the Pirates....is they are winning and ruining the narrative!

 

[Teh Teh]

Pittsburgh in a nutshell.

Well my issue with the pirates all along is the return or the timing of the trades. They seldom seem to get the return they should, although heck when you trade away stars you should hit every once in awhile and we do that. Just our hit rate is low.

That being said, who cares. We have a team playing well (albeit against lower competition), if you love baseball, Pittsburgh and a great stadium, then go to a bucco game. Pirate fans must be Pitt fans.

Cutch was a douchebag, Cole was a douchebag, probably Nutting is a douchebag, but the Pirates represent Pittsburgh and I don’t see not going to games cause they traded someone you like.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Pittsburgh in a nutshell.

Well my issue with the pirates all along is the return or the timing of the trades. They seldom seem to get the return they should, although heck when you trade away stars you should hit every once in awhile and we do that. Just our hit rate is low.

That being said, who cares. We have a team playing well (albeit against lower competition), if you love baseball, Pittsburgh and a great stadium, then go to a bucco game. Pirate fans must be Pitt fans.

Cutch was a douchebag, Cole was a douchebag, probably Nutting is a douchebag, but the Pirates represent Pittsburgh and I don’t see not going to games cause they traded someone you like.

I agree about Cole, but Cutch? I wouldn’t use that term or anything near that for him. The guy is a class act and loves Pittsburgh.

 

[Swervin27]

Pittsburgh in a nutshell.

Well my issue with the pirates all along is the return or the timing of the trades. They seldom seem to get the return they should, although heck when you trade away stars you should hit every once in awhile and we do that. Just our hit rate is low.

That being said, who cares. We have a team playing well (albeit against lower competition), if you love baseball, Pittsburgh and a great stadium, then go to a bucco game. Pirate fans must be Pitt fans.

Cutch was a douchebag, Cole was a douchebag, probably Nutting is a douchebag, but the Pirates represent Pittsburgh and I don’t see not going to games cause they traded someone you like.

why do you think Cutch was a d-bag? I don't know the guy, he could have been but he always came off as nothing but professional and likeable. I don't get too drawn in to athlete's personal life, im rooting for on field but that comment was probably one of the first I've heard towards Cutch in a negative light.

Was it how he handled the demotion to left field last year?

 

[jtownknowitall]

The weather, not the play, has kept attendance down. Baseball relies on the casual fan for attendance bumps, they know the die hards will always be there.

The Pirates have lost many die hards. Casual fans can be relied on for attendance bumps from say 30,000 to 32,000. The Pirates rely on advance ticket and season ticket sales. Casual fans aren't going to add too much to that.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The Pirates have lost many die hards. Casual fans can be relied on for attendance bumps from say 30,000 to 32,000. The Pirates rely on advance ticket and season ticket sales. Casual fans aren't going to add too much to that.

This isn't directed at jtownknowitall.
Nothings wrong with the Pirates???

You people the local fans are terrible fans that's what's wrong!

Mrs Buffett and I will be in town Saturday morning leaving Monday morning to attend the Pirates games on Sat and Sunday.

I guess since we're out of towners we're casual fans who will drive 300 miles one way 600 rt to watch a Pirates game in person. And we can't wait to get there.

We go to alot of ballparks. Do you people know that PNC park is one of the best ballparks we've ever been to?? On the bueatiful fun filled Northshore of Pittsburgh.

The Philles fans have to travel to a crappy stadium where you get mugged and robbed on your way in and they take what you have left on the way out to your car. The muggers do't want to take to much at one time since it might trigger the issuance of a 1099. This was set-up by the Phlly Mayors office and it's called the Muggers Assistance Program.

It's on a crowded major highway, built next to a landfill / dirty smelly port of Philly, in the middle of a dump neighborhood, next to the airport, surrounded by cheap airport bedbug infested motels that specialize in airport parking, airport parking and you can't stay within walking distance unless you want to stay at the worst Holiday Inn in the world.

And they go to the games!,


Go Pirates!

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!

 

[Delpanther]

Getting back to the initial post, The Problem with the Pirates....is they are winning and ruining the narrative!

The “narrative” has nothing to do with winning games in May.... this is the sos from Nutting teams.... tease the village idiots into believing the team has a chance when knowledgeable B.B. fans know they don’t and won’t win anything this year or any year. Every time the Pirates show a pulse, Freeport , you hop on the Nutting bandwagon..., you’re his “ kind” of fan!

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

Pittsburgh in a nutshell.

Well my issue with the pirates all along is the return or the timing of the trades. They seldom seem to get the return they should, although heck when you trade away stars you should hit every once in awhile and we do that. Just our hit rate is low.

That being said, who cares. We have a team playing well (albeit against lower competition), if you love baseball, Pittsburgh and a great stadium, then go to a bucco game. Pirate fans must be Pitt fans.

Cutch was a douchebag, Cole was a douchebag, probably Nutting is a douchebag, but the Pirates represent Pittsburgh and I don’t see not going to games cause they traded someone you like.

I think Huntington is just okay in trades. Negative fans focus on Bay and Walker, which didn’t yield much. Supporters note he has gotten pieces like Harrison, Cervelli, Burnett, Nova, Rivero, Byrd, Happ that have been instrumental. My problem is that they consistently get ‘major league ready’ returns with a low floor and limited upside.

Fans here probably overrated the trade value of McCutcheon. But he was the best and most popular Pirate in 30 years. When the key piece coming back was a 23 yo outfielder at high A who immediately needs surgery, that is going to raise eyebrows.

 

[JoseLind13]

Lost among the anger toward ownership and finances, I think people severely underestimated the talent that remains on this roster. This isn't the mid 1990's hopeless decimation of the roster. I don't expect the Bucs to maintain this pace in 2018, as I think pitching depth issues and injuries will bite, but I'm not shocked the are at the top of the division through the first month and a half. Dickerson was an unexpected good fortune for Huntington after the Cutch deal that changed the 2018 outlook big time. 2 years of Dickerson >>>>>> 1 year of Cutch. Heck, 1 year of Dickerson is looking better, so far.

Not knowing that Dickerson would happen at the time, I thought, at that time, that the Bucs should have done the 'bad baseball move' and just paid Cutch out his final year and let him walk for nothing. He is the rare exception as the face of the franchise where that would have seem justifiable. The amount in return for 1 year star rentals is usually very underwhelming. Trading him last off season was the opportunity to get a big return of talent to stabilize the future that many fans incorrectly though could have been had in trading Cutch this year. I'm sure that is their hope for the Cole return.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The “narrative” has nothing to do with winning games in May.... this is the sos from Nutting teams.... tease the village idiots into believing the team has a chance when knowledgeable B.B. fans know they don’t and won’t win anything this year or any year. Every time the Pirates show a pulse, Freeport , you hop on the Nutting bandwagon..., you’re his “ kind” of fan!

How am I on the Nutting bandwagon? My post above pretty accurately spells out the situation with Nutting. That was a very unfair statement, Del.
Look, I know the Pirates being in first place is killing you, but it's a fact. No one knows where they will be in a month, or 4 months, but what we do know is they are in first place NOW.

I enjoy paying attention to baseball, and being a W PA guy, the Pirates are my team. I don't go to games, haven't been down there for years, but I watch them on TV. So I guess watching on TV helps Nutting????, but I have a Pirates hat that I bought in the bargain bin at Dicks for $4.00, so I guess I'm guilty of supporting Nutting.

Your bitterness towards the owner, and your all or none attitude with regards to "winning" is robbing you of watching a pretty entertaining team so far. There are some pretty decent young players here and they are playing good baseball.

How do you know they won't win anything? And what is Anything? If you mean the World Series, that's a pretty high bar, one 29 other teams will fail to meet.

I can't believe I got sucked into a baseball discussion with you. It's like stepping in quicksand!
Anyway, like I said before, Nutting isn't going anywhere, he won't be shamed into selling, he probably won't change his strategy, fact, fact, fact. But regardless of Nutting, the team is winning with a young roster, and they're playing entertaining baseball, so there's that.
Can't you hate the owner and enjoy the players and the game? That's possible you know.

 

[Delpanther]

How am I on the Nutting bandwagon? My post above pretty accurately spells out the situation with Nutting. That was a very unfair statement, Del.
Look, I know the Pirates being in first place is killing you, but it's a fact. No onel knows where they will be in a month, or 4 months, but what we do know is they are in first place NOW.

I enjoy paying attention to baseball, and being a W PA guy, the Pirates are my team. I don't go to games, haven't been down there for years, but I watch them on TV. So I guess watching on TV helps Nutting????, but I have a Pirates hat that I bought in the bargain bin at Dicks for $4.00, so I guess I'm guilty of supporting Nutting.

Your bitterness towards the owner, and your all or none attitude with regards to "winning" is robbing you of watching a pretty entertaining team so far. There are some pretty decent young players here and they are playing good baseball.

How do you know they won't win anything? And what is Anything? If you mean the World Series, that's a pretty high bar, one 29 other teams will fail to meet.

I can't believe I got sucked into a baseball discussion with you. It's like stepping in quicksand!
Anyway, like I said before, Nutting isn't going anywhere, he won't be shamed into selling, he probably won't change his strategy, fact, fact, fact. But regardless of Nutting, the team is winning with a young roster, and they're playing entertaining baseball, so there's that.
Can't you hate the owner and enjoy the players and the game? That's possible you know.

The Pirates being in 1st place isn’t killing me at all. However, the suggestion that the Pirates being in first place in May somehow refutes the view( your post)that Nutting doesn’t care about and won’t invest to build a championship club( the narrative)does perturb me because it’s BS and as a life long Pirate fan, I do detest Nutting and his philosophy for running the team. Why would you take a shot at people campaigning for change, change for the better?

As for what the Pirates will do the rest of the year, their starting pitching stinks and will not sustain the team over the course of the year. And you can bet come July, if the Pirates somehow manage yo remain in contention, they’ll sit tight..... the cheap way out!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Cleveland played in the World Series in 2016 right? They averaged exactly 1500 more a game than the Pirates did last year. And the Pirates played to a higher capacity of their ballpark. This year? Cleveland is like 500 more a game than the Pirates, coming off a playoff year.

People are interested in the Tribe. They just don't go to games.

 

[FreeportPanther]

The Pirates being in 1st place isn’t killing me at all. However, the suggestion that the Pirates being in first place in May somehow refutes the view( your post)that Nutting doesn’t care about and won’t invest to build a championship club( the narrative)does perturb me because it’s BS and as a life long Pirate fan, I do detest Nutting and his philosophy for running the team. Why would you take a shot at people campaigning for change, change for the better?

As for what the Pirates will do the rest of the year, their starting pitching stinks and will not sustain the team over the course of the year. And you can bet come July, if the Pirates somehow manage yo remain in contention, they’ll sit tight..... the cheap way out!

Other than the "campaign" being a silly exercise that won't change a thing regarding Nutting owning the team? One thing it might have done is to make them spend and add if still in contention at the deadline, I'll give you that.

LA Dodgers have a $190 million + payroll. How are they doing?

It would be absolutely hilarious if the Pirates would do what other small market, relatively low payroll teams have done from time to time and win the Central and perhaps sneak into the Series. Then you could say "This winning season was a fraud! They didn't spend enough money to get these results, therefore, it didn't happen!"

 

[Delpanther]

Other than the "campaign" being a silly exercise that won't change a thing regarding Nutting owning the team? One thing it might have done is to make them spend and add if still in contention at the deadline, I'll give you that.

LA Dodgers have a $190 million + payroll. How are they doing?

It would be absolutely hilarious if the Pirates would do what other small market, relatively low payroll teams have done from time to time and win the Central and perhaps sneak into the Series. Then you could say "This winning season was a fraud! They didn't spend enough money to get these results, therefore, it didn't happen!"

For the 50,000 time no one has contended spending the most money guaranteed a championship but there’s clear evidence that the bigger spenders do better than the bum who owns the Pirates

Let’s see the Pirates get to the World Series before you speculate on what I will say.....you’re quite the BSer, Freeport.....

 

[HailToPitt725]

This isn't directed at jtownknowitall.
Nothings wrong with the Pirates???

You people the local fans are terrible fans that's what's wrong!

Mrs Buffett and I will be in town Saturday morning leaving Monday morning to attend the Pirates games on Sat and Sunday.

I guess since we're out of towners we're casual fans who will drive 300 miles one way 600 rt to watch a Pirates game in person. And we can't wait to get there.

We go to alot of ballparks. Do you people know that PNC park is one of the best ballparks we've ever been to?? On the bueatiful fun filled Northshore of Pittsburgh.

The Philles fans have to travel to a crappy stadium where you get mugged and robbed on your way in and they take what you have left on the way out to your car. The muggers do't want to take to much at one time since it might trigger the issuance of a 1099. This was set-up by the Phlly Mayors office and it's called the Muggers Assistance Program.

It's on a crowded major highway, built next to a landfill / dirty smelly port of Philly, in the middle of a dump neighborhood, next to the airport, surrounded by cheap airport bedbug infested motels that specialize in airport parking, airport parking and you can't stay within walking distance unless you want to stay at the worst Holiday Inn in the world.

And they go to the games!,


Go Pirates!

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!

Buffet- If you ever get the chance, come out to Kansas City and check out Kauffman Stadium if you haven’t done so yet. I thought no stadium came close to PNC until I went to a game out here. That’s a renovating-old-stadium done right.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Other than the "campaign" being a silly exercise that won't change a thing regarding Nutting owning the team? One thing it might have done is to make them spend and add if still in contention at the deadline, I'll give you that.

LA Dodgers have a $190 million + payroll. How are they doing?

It would be absolutely hilarious if the Pirates would do what other small market, relatively low payroll teams have done from time to time and win the Central and perhaps sneak into the Series. Then you could say "This winning season was a fraud! They didn't spend enough money to get these results, therefore, it didn't happen!"

FP, but let's also remember when Cleveland or Kansas City was there and had a chance to go for it, KC added Cueto and a couple of other free agents. Cleveland traded prospects (oh the horror) for Andrew Miller and then signed Edwin Encarnacion to a big time contract. When the Pirates were at this level, we signed Ryan Vogelsong.

So........as much as Del is annoying, he has a point here.

 

[FreeportPanther]

We’ll hopefully we can see what they do this time. If in that position again. Maybe they learned their lesson given the backlash.
No matter how long or loud he crows, Del’s broken record won’t change a thing about Nutting owning the team. He isn’t selling and can’t be forced or shamed into it.
People in NY will tell you he isn’t even the worst owner.
Like I said no more baseball talk with Del. Like sticking a sharp stick in your eye. It really feels good when you stop.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't think it is has anything to do with weather now or play on the field.

It's pretty clear that it doesn't. I mean sure, the weather has certainly kept some small number of people away. But the Pirates don't live on walk up sales in April and May anyway. They live on people who buy tickets well before the game, and while the weather might keep those folks from showing up they've still bought the tickets. That isn't happening this year. Those tickets never got sold in the first place.

 

[Delpanther]

FP, but let's also remember when Cleveland or Kansas City was there and had a chance to go for it, KC added Cueto and a couple of other free agents. Cleveland traded prospects (oh the horror) for Andrew Miller and then signed Edwin Encarnacion to a big time contract. When the Pirates were at this level, we signed Ryan Vogelsong.

So........as much as Del is annoying, he has a point here.

I'm annoying? Why? Because I tumbled to a correct realization that most of you nimrods took 10 years to finally come to?

 

[Delpanther]

We’ll hopefully we can see what they do this time. If in that position again. Maybe they learned their lesson given the backlash.
No matter how long or loud he crows, Del’s broken record won’t change a thing about Nutting owning the team. He isn’t selling and can’t be forced or shamed into it.
People in NY will tell you he isn’t even the worst owner.
Like I said no more baseball talk with Del. Like sticking a sharp stick in your eye. It really feels good when you stop.

ow, ouch, ow, ouch....

 

[Swervin27]

It’s ok to not want to support the pirates, we are all entitled to spend our money how we want. What I find Comical are the local clowns who get upset with the pirates winning and take every chance to try and rain on our parade.

You aren’t going to spend another dollar on the pirates, we get it, we hear you so go away and let us pirates fans be.

 

[Las Panteras]

fwiw,

it seems Huntingdon has done rather well at the trade deadline.

The off season, not so much

But to be fair, Moran and Cory D. are nice additions, Yes Cole is killin it but Cutch? we will see in 2 months if he heats up as he is known to do

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

fwiw,

it seems Huntingdon has done rather well at the trade deadline.

The off season, not so much

But to be fair, Moran and Cory D. are nice additions, Yes Cole is killin it but Cutch? we will see in 2 months if he heats up as he is known to do

Yeah, we upgraded over Cutch. That was no big deal. Cole? We should have gotten more. Cole was still a top pitcher, yet to hit his prime, with a couple of years of control. But I also think Neal was looking for more immediate help than he was top prospects.

 

[mike 301]

Getting back to the initial post, The Problem with the Pirates....is they are winning and ruining the narrative!

They're winning and attendance sucks .
Mediocre is no way to go through life . And thats all they strive for .

 

[pittdan77]

How do you know they won't win anything? And what is Anything? If you mean the World Series, that's a pretty high bar, one 29 other teams will fail to meet.

Where would you like the bar to be set? I always assumed a championship was sort of the point.

 

[mike 301]

Where would you like the bar to be set? I always assumed a championship was sort of the point.

Asses in the seats and win just enough to keep em coming back .

 

[pittdan77]

Asses in the seats and win just enough to keep em coming back .

Well that's where management's bar is set. As a fan, it should be a championship.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Well that's where management's bar is set. As a fan, it should be a championship.

So they should win a championship every year? That's quite a bar.
And what if they don't, like 29 Major League teams every year? No longer a fan? Not interested in watching young players come up to see what they can do? Not interested to see them play spoiler for another team you may not like? Not interested in what moves/trades they make to get better for next year? Not interested in a relaxing evening at a MLB game in one of the most beautiful ballparks in the country?

Championships are great, and no one is against them, but to say a team should be expected to win one every year is an impossible expectation, but to each their own.

 

[pitt2533]

So they should win a championship every year? That's quite a bar.
And what if they don't, like 29 Major League teams every year? No longer a fan? Not interested in watching young players come up to see what they can do? Not interested to see them play spoiler for another team you may not like? Not interested in what moves/trades they make to get better for next year? Not interested in a relaxing evening at a MLB game in one of the most beautiful ballparks in the country?

Championships are great, and no one is against them, but to say a team should be expected to win one every year is an impossible expectation, but to each their own.

They haven't won one since 79 and have been to the playoffs only a couple times and only had a winning season a couple times in the last 25+ years. They are overwhelmingly a bad franchise in the last quarter century.

 

[pitt2533]

And by the way, Nova sucks and should be out of the rotation with Kingham in the rotation.

 

[FreeportPanther]

They haven't won one since 79 and have been to the playoffs only a couple times and only had a winning season a couple times in the last 25+ years. They are overwhelmingly a bad franchise in the last quarter century.

How would you like to root for the Cubs or the Red Sox, they go 85 years between championships despite spending like drunken sailors.
Milwaukee last won in 1957 when they were the Braves.
Cleveland last won in 1948.
Detroit hasn't won since 1968.
The Mariners, Rockies, and Twins have never won one.
The Pirates haven't been good, no debate. But to set the bar for being a fan at winning championships every year is interestingly high.

The Pirates sucked all through the 40's and 50's. People still came out to see Kiner.
Stars like Bonds and Van Slyke and Bonilla and Drabek and Smiley and Pena and Kendall and many others never played on championship teams, but were fun to watch.
Nutting sucks as an owner, no doubt, but Pittsburgh is fortunate to have a MLB team. It helps make the city big time. It is unfortunate to have one owned by Nutting.

 

[mike 301]

So they should win a championship every year?

Hey I get your point but if the goal isn't to win a championship at the beginning of each year you have no business being there .IMO.

 

[pittdan77]

So they should win a championship every year?

Shouldn't they at least try to win a championship every year? Maybe take a flyer on a free agent that might add a spark to the club? I mean, if only management seemed to be trying I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any of the backlash you're seeing. I think that's where the disconnect is for the fans and that's why people have lost interest. You don't nearly get over the hump, avoid adding anyone that could help, and then dismantle the team and expect everyone to just say "shucks" and keep forking over money blindly.

I really don't know why this is such a hard concept. Pitt fans do it all the time. It's like if a stadium suddenly appeared on the hill, it would immediately be packed because people would just forget that Pitt has run a terrible football program for years.

 

[pittdan77]

Hey I get your point but if the goal isn't to win a championship at the beginning of each year you have no business being there .IMO.

I mean, if there was a salary cap or some other barrier to make moves, I could see how it might take a couple of years to get things going the right way but the Pirates can't even use that as an excuse.