The problem with the Pirates

[pittmeister]

Really? First off, you want cheap, young, controllable players under contract. Whether you are the Yankees or the Pirates, this is the ideal situation. The days of the Yankees or Dodger dumping prospects for big veteran contracts has come and gone.

So the Pirates and Huntingdon are almost obsessive/compulsive with holding onto their prospects, touting them, and absolutely refusing to part with them (well except if it involves a salary dump). We know Tyler Glasnow and Gregory Polanco could have yielded Chris Sale. But no way the Pirates could mortgage the future. Or some combo of Glasnow, Polanco and Kingham or Meadows. Are you crazy? No way to mortgage the future. Let's look at some of the Pirates homegrown prospects over this management team's tenure.

Pedro Alvarez. One great season, many bad seasons, basically out baseball.
Gerrit Cole. One great season, but never approached the Ace role, traded to the Astros and of course is now pitching like well an Ace.
Jameson Taillon. Lots of setbacks, but....I mean.....what is he, he looks like a 4/5 starter at best.
Those guys were #1 or #2 overall. I mean, they should be no brainers.
Tony Sanchez, was a horrible pick. But he was picked to give you "financial flexibility" so the Pirates can overspend and their next picks were Vic Black, Brooks Pounders and Evan Burroughs. Ahhhh yeah.
Who else?
Reese McGuire. He stinks, so we gave him up so the Jays would take Liriano's salary. Wait a minute, if he stinks, why did we draft him?
Adam Meadows. Okay, had a nice start though a bit later than we hoped, but he is not exactly Mike Trout.
Josh Bell, the big overslot player, OK, the Pirates outthought and outspend the big boys by drafting him in the 2nd rd and convincing him to go to the minors and not University of Texas. He has 6 HR's and is batting .260 and it is almost the All Star break. He still has issues at 1B.
Finally the Pirates have some success so they finally draft out of the top 10.
2014 #1 Cole Tucker. ?????
Kevin Kramer? He's 24
Kevin Newman? He's 24.
Nick Kingham? He's 26.
Clay Holmes? He's 25.
My point here, these guys aren't exactly spring chickens.
Mitch Keller, yes he is someone to be excited about. So was Tyler Glasnow.

Then there is that vaunted Latin American Academy.
Starling Marte? Could possibly be the lowest baseball IQ in the majors. Looked like he was going to be another Carlos Beltran. He isn't.
Gregory Polanco. He was ranked in the top 5 of prospects, just looked like another potential Giancarlo Stanton. He is about the most nonchalant player, hasn't improved one bit, and is an average at best major leaguer.
Alan Hansen? Nice to know you.

So the latest group of prospects whether home grown or acquired via trade, who really can be excited or believed that they are going to be any different? In 2014, when the Pirates were fighting for a WC spot and also top records in baseball, I think MLB.com ranked their system #1, with prospects Polanco, Glasnow, Taillon, Meadows, Bell, McGuire, Hansen all were ranked in the top 100. The Pirates were simply unwilling to part with any of these guys to put them maybe over the top, to jump the Cards and acquire that ace or acquire a top power hitter. Any combo of that group could have yielded true superstars, you know the types of players the World Series winning teams acquire. Now, already one of that group was included in a salary dump, and Glasnow and Polanco would be lucky to fetch a middle inning reliever.

So......is it talent evaluation? I mean in the case of some of those guys, they were picked were they were ranked. I think to a point it is talent evaluation, but I think it is mostly coaching and development. Gorkys Hernandez couldn't hit a ball out of the infield here, he has hit 11 HR's. Keon Broxton is major player for the Brewers. Charlie Morton is an Ace and a Cy Young candidate. Gerrit Cole leads in strikeouts. He couldn't miss a bat here. Isn't it uncanny how players here get worse, really fast? Pedro. Cole. Marte. Bell.

And the guys responsible for this whole mess get 4 years extension by ownership because they have shown improvement and have unfinished business? They wonder why people aren't going? Aren't watching on TV? Aren't subscribing to prospect websites? And on top of this, you get insulting and demeaning double speak from Pirates management like we are idiots.

I don't go to games, but worse than that, I don't watch games anymore on TV. I am sick of this group, the owner is the owner, but these guys running this team from President to GM to Manager to Pitching Coach, the whole lot of them are lousy and they are reupped?

The Pirates are simply not worth my time.

OUTSTANDING POST! Well thought out and worth reading.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

All I've heard for the past half-dozen years is how great the Pirates' minor league system is and how it's the envy of the league.

They actually have a great minor league ball club. Too bad it's having to compete in the majors.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

They actually have a great minor league ball club. Too bad it's having to compete in the majors.

Here's what scares me, the Pirates had a string of years where they had to 10 draft picks and they couldn't parlay that into a division title. Now they have been drafting out of the top 10, so why should we think these prospects are going to be any better than the last highly ranked group??

And again, there is that development thing. The same fundamental errors the same players make when they first get here, they are making 4 years later. And we give extensions and raises to those guys.

 

[Panther Holla]

$1 hotdogs and fireworks are all Pirate fans ever needed to show up. There's no genius necessary.

In the PNC Park era, true. In the early Three Rivers era, false. The Reds and Phillies promoted like crazy when their stadiums opened the gates. The Reds marketed all over the state ("Ohio is Reds Country"). Back then (1970-74) the Pirates were the equal to the Reds and clearly better than the Phillies. They had hitters galore and a World Series contender but their marketing was tepid at best. then they fired Prince after 1975, the single worst PR move in franchise history until the Nutting Pirates allowed the 2015 team to disintegrate. This backlash against ownership now is worse.

 

[pittdan77]

In the PNC Park era, true. In the early Three Rivers era, false. The Reds and Phillies promoted like crazy when their stadiums opened the gates. The Reds marketed all over the state ("Ohio is Reds Country"). Back then (1970-74) the Pirates were the equal to the Reds and clearly better than the Phillies. They had hitters galore and a World Series contender but their marketing was tepid at best. then they fired Prince after 1975, the single worst PR move in franchise history until the Nutting Pirates allowed the 2015 team to disintegrate. This backlash against ownership now is worse.

These "backlash" moments are always quickly forgotten. The next time the Pirates sniff the wildcard race, Yinzers will happily come flocking back to the park only to watch the cycle repeat itself. That's what the Pirate fans do.

 

[Delpanther]

These "backlash" moments are always quickly forgotten. The next time the Pirates sniff the wildcard race, Yinzers will happily come flocking back to the park only to watch the cycle repeat itself. That's what the Pirate fans do.

You'll be a much older man before this collection of GARBAGE sniffs a wild card berth and hopefully by that time Nutting's been run out of town on a rail. I hope the Pirates drown in empty seats for years. They're the worst run organization in BB and there are some very bad ones.

 

[Panther Holla]

These "backlash" moments are always quickly forgotten. The next time the Pirates sniff the wildcard race, Yinzers will happily come flocking back to the park only to watch the cycle repeat itself. That's what the Pirate fans do.

I'm not so sure. The casual fans and the people who like a fun night at the park or to bring the kids -- they're going to keep turning out, but perhaps less often than in the past. But a lot of die-hards like me have tuned out. I would never have believed the level of venom I have toward this owner and his lackeys, and that it has driven me away. I don't see myself giving the Pirates a reboot as long as Nutting continues on his present course.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

https://supergeniusmm.wordpress.com/2018/07/06/heres-why-the-pirates-stink/

I mean, this isn't anything new, but it is dead nuts on and says it all.

 

[pittbb80]

https://supergeniusmm.wordpress.com/2018/07/06/heres-why-the-pirates-stink/

I mean, this isn't anything new, but it is dead nuts on and says it all.

That pretty much nailed it. Not much more to say

Nutting is Ehaybhe is but Huntington is being exposed as a fraud as well

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I wonder what the franchise record is for runs given up in a week. Surely the "Rickeydinks" of old couldn't have surpassed this WEAK'S performance.

 

[pittdan77]

I wonder what the franchise record is for runs given up in a week. Surely the "Rickeydinks" of old couldn't have surpassed this WEAK'S performance.

And yet they played to over 70% capacity on Saturday evening. Guess the boycott is over.

 

[FreeportPanther]

And yet they played to over 70% capacity on Saturday evening. Guess the boycott is over.

19,000 on a beautiful Sunday, probably half of them Phillie fans.

 

[Panther Holla]

And yet they played to over 70% capacity on Saturday evening. Guess the boycott is over.

Three years ago they would have played to an SRO crowd. 71% included hoards of Phillies fans. Last weekend will be their high water mark for a weekend this year.