The Scheme....Sean Miller and Will Wade

[Chescat]

Just finished watching THE SCHEME. I won't speak for others, but
for me the pay for play process is nothing new. The show itself,
does IMO clearly expose Miller and Wade as major participants
in this process. Anyone thinking they're exceptions in the college
coaching ranks is naive. The two of them had press conferences
explaining their innocence which was laughable at best.
The fact that they're basically off scott free is as bad as the NCAA
avoiding a charge of wrong doing in this whole mess which is often
college athletics.

Christian Dawkins IMO, (along with some others) who are not innocent
in all of this, certainly takes the brunt of court rulings and convictions.
The biggies...coaches, the NCAA, many college programs,
prominent boosters, etc get some bad publicity, but life goes on for
them, as does the status quo in big time college athletics.
Just my two cents.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Who are two cheaters who have been caught and the ncaa fails to banish them? - Alex

 

[HOF Coach]

Who are two slimy college basketball head coaches adored by SMF? - Alex

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I still think the NCAA is gonna come down on both of them, as well as a few others. The NCAA is just predictably so slow to do so and would never do it during the season to two teams that make them a lot of $. Sean and Will Wade are two people who have no business coaching college basketball and frankly aren’t very good coaches. Not sure how or why they’d get employed again.

This isn’t a Pitino or Bruce Pearl who are fantastic at what they do situation. These two guys had elite MM jobs to get to where they are. You put either one of these weasels are Pitt and they’re a rich man’s Kevin Stallings.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I have a different take now in regards to why the NCAA does not do nor cares to do anything to these rule breakers. It is fairly simple. They know these star players deserve to be paid something. However under the guise of collegiate sports you have these issues:
1) How much should these guys get paid?
2) Should 12th man be paid as much as a McD All American or starter? Same with football.
3) How do you pay FB and BB players without having Title IX issues?

So these shoe companies, or boosters, are paying the stars, well that kind of checks all of the above boxes right? The best players get paid, the market is setting it, and there are no "official" payments so female athletes can't cry "inequality".

Add to this the wonderful little ancillary aspect that none of these payments come from the revenues generated by the schools allowing them to keep them, well win, win, win.

So you really think the NCAA cares or frowns on this? If Nike/Duke is willing to give Zion Williamson say $500K to be at Duke, on national TV every game vs the G League, you think the NCAA is going to complain??

 

[Chescat]

I have a different take now in regards to why the NCAA does not do nor cares to do anything to these rule breakers. It is fairly simple. They know these star players deserve to be paid something. However under the guise of collegiate sports you have these issues:
1) How much should these guys get paid?
2) Should 12th man be paid as much as a McD All American or starter? Same with football.
3) How do you pay FB and BB players without having Title IX issues?

So these shoe companies, or boosters, are paying the stars, well that kind of checks all of the above boxes right? The best players get paid, the market is setting it, and there are no "official" payments so female athletes can't cry "inequality".

Add to this the wonderful little ancillary aspect that none of these payments come from the revenues generated by the schools allowing them to keep them, well win, win, win.

So you really think the NCAA cares or frowns on this? If Nike/Duke is willing to give Zion Williamson say $500K to be at Duke, on national TV every game vs the G League, you think the NCAA is going to complain??

Well that IS a "different take," that's for sure. I'm not going to
necessarily agree with what you said and explained (rather well
I might add). However, I have to admit...it actually makes a lot
of sense.
If it were to be accurate, the NCAA (which I have little room for)
is even worse than I can imagine.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They got away with it. They win.

 

[pittjas]

I have a different take now in regards to why the NCAA does not do nor cares to do anything to these rule breakers. It is fairly simple. They know these star players deserve to be paid something. However under the guise of collegiate sports you have these issues:
1) How much should these guys get paid?
2) Should 12th man be paid as much as a McD All American or starter? Same with football.
3) How do you pay FB and BB players without having Title IX issues?

So these shoe companies, or boosters, are paying the stars, well that kind of checks all of the above boxes right? The best players get paid, the market is setting it, and there are no "official" payments so female athletes can't cry "inequality".

Add to this the wonderful little ancillary aspect that none of these payments come from the revenues generated by the schools allowing them to keep them, well win, win, win.

So you really think the NCAA cares or frowns on this? If Nike/Duke is willing to give Zion Williamson say $500K to be at Duke, on national TV every game vs the G League, you think the NCAA is going to complain??

100% agree... and frankly, this set up is better for us as fans. If players ever started getting paid by schools and/or for likeness, college sports would be completely different than we know it

 

[wbrpanther]

Just finished watching THE SCHEME. I won't speak for others, but
for me the pay for play process is nothing new. The show itself,
does IMO clearly expose Miller and Wade as major participants
in this process. Anyone thinking they're exceptions in the college
coaching ranks is naive. The two of them had press conferences
explaining their innocence which was laughable at best.
The fact that they're basically off scott free is as bad as the NCAA
avoiding a charge of wrong doing in this whole mess which is often
college athletics.

Christian Dawkins IMO, (along with some others) who are not innocent
in all of this, certainly takes the brunt of court rulings and convictions.
The biggies...coaches, the NCAA, many college programs,
prominent boosters, etc get some bad publicity, but life goes on for
them, as does the status quo in big time college athletics.
Just my two cents.

Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...David Byrne

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

They got away with it. They win.

Sean Miller is a terrible coach. Would be a huge failure if he wasn’t at an elite job. If he ever got the Pitt job, it would be between Stallings and bad Ralph Willard years. Never better than that.

When people talked about Miller possibly going to the NBA, NBA circles openly laughed at the possibility that mutt could be on a NBA staff.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sean Miller is a terrible coach. Would be a huge failure if he wasn’t at an elite job. If he ever got the Pitt job, it would be between Stallings and bad Ralph Willard years. Never better than that.

When people talked about Miller possibly going to the NBA, NBA circles openly laughed at the possibility that mutt could be on a NBA staff.

He's no Steve Pikiell that's for sure. I mean he only has, what like 5 Elite 8s.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

He's no Steve Pikiell that's for sure. I mean he only has, what like 5 Elite 8s.

At Xavier and Arizona where everyone wins. Pikiell would get an NBA job before Sean Miller and the fact you don’t know that proves AGAIN what everyone knows; you’re clueless.

Jim Laranega and Shaka Smart have FF’s in a random one and done tourney. Does that make them great coaches? Nah.

No one does less with more than Sean. Ever Archie might be better than him.

 

[Chescat]

At Xavier and Arizona where everyone wins. Pikiell would get an NBA job before Sean Miller and the fact you don’t know that proves AGAIN what everyone knows; you’re clueless.

Jim Laranega and Shaka Smart have FF’s in a random one and done tourney. Does that make them great coaches? Nah.

No one does less with more than Sean. Ever Archie might be better than him.

He's really making an ass of himself on this board lately....more than
usual.
Of course having Sean Miller Fan as your screen name on here given
what the The Scheme clearly shows us says it all.
Miller may have had a very good career at Pitt back in the day, but
he's turned into a real sleeze. He embodies what's wrong with college
athletics today.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's really making an ass of himself on this board lately....more than
usual.
Of course having Sean Miller Fan as your screen name on here given
what the The Scheme clearly shows us says it all.
Miller may have had a very good career at Pitt back in the day, but
he's turned into a real sleeze. He embodies what's wrong with college
athletics today.

A completely sleazebag. No doubt. He's essentially a mobster. Still, as I posted above, not only does the NCAA not care, they almost tacitly approve of this because it takes the "athletes getting paid" issue out of their hands.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A completely sleazebag. No doubt. He's essentially a mobster. Still, as I posted above, not only does the NCAA not care, they almost tacitly approve of this because it takes the "athletes getting paid" issue out of their hands.

Yea, I mean guys like him and Will Wade ARE college basketball. That's what the sport is all about. You have to pay to play.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Yea, I mean guys like him and Will Wade ARE college basketball. That's what the sport is all about. You have to pay to play.

Why do you root for Pitt then?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Why do you root for Pitt then?

Why wouldn't I? I'd like them to win games despite playing with 1 arm tied behind their back and they have proven to be able to do so in the past. Why do you root for Rutgers?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Why wouldn't I? I'd like them to win games despite playing with 1 arm tied behind their back and they have proven to be able to do so in the past. Why do you root for Rutgers?

I don’t. I just know good coaches from bad coaches. I would root for them over any other team in the big ten though

Your rooting interest seems like a waste of time considering you’re so enamored with people who openly cheat.

 

[PhysicalOatmeal]

100% agree... and frankly, this set up is better for us as fans. If players ever started getting paid by schools and/or for likeness, college sports would be completely different than we know it

We’d probably get NCAA video games back though, so I’m 100% for them getting paid

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

We’d probably get NCAA video games back though, so I’m 100% for them getting paid

Good thing Ed Obannon brought that suit for him to get that check for 31.40 while depriving millions of joy.

 

[4upmc]

At Xavier and Arizona where everyone wins. Pikiell would get an NBA job before Sean Miller and the fact you don’t know that proves AGAIN what everyone knows; you’re clueless.

Jim Laranega and Shaka Smart have FF’s in a random one and done tourney. Does that make them great coaches? Nah.

No one does less with more than Sean. Ever Archie might be better than him.

He clearly knows nothing about Pikiell and the great job he has done at super difficult jobs. Do you happen to know Jay Young who used to coach for Steve at Stony Brook and Rutgers? Has to be the nicest coach I have ever met.

 

[Chescat]

He clearly knows nothing about Pikiell and the great job he has done at super difficult jobs.

"He clearly knows nothing about" many of the things he gets himself
into on this board.
But, but......SMF knows basketball.

 

[redbyrds]

Sean How about $20G to play for me?
Will I can go to $25G. How about LSU?

G League I have a half Mil. Checkmate!

It was funny that Green was down to Auburn and Memphis, two of the dirtiest programs around. G League came in with a much bigger bag man and sent Pearl and Hardaway packing.

 

[Ski11585]

Sean Miller is a terrible coach. Would be a huge failure if he wasn’t at an elite job. If he ever got the Pitt job, it would be between Stallings and bad Ralph Willard years. Never better than that.

When people talked about Miller possibly going to the NBA, NBA circles openly laughed at the possibility that mutt could be on a NBA staff.

I pointed this out in another thread and SMF and someone else lost their minds. The fact is, as disappointing as Dixon was in March, I’d say Miller is way worse. Yeah yeah. Nobody did worse relative to their seed. But Miller chokes with way more talent and would never land those classes at a Pitt or Rutgers.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

I pointed this out in another thread and SMF and someone else lost their minds. The fact is, as disappointing as Dixon was in March, I’d say Miller is way worse. Yeah yeah. Nobody did worse relative to their seed. But Miller chokes with way more talent and would never land those classes at a Pitt or Rutgers.

I was that "someone else" who had the audacity to challenge your ridiculous assertion. For the record, I hate these coaching comparisons because defending someone is largely interpreted as throwing the other guy under the bus. But the fact remains; Relative to seed, Jamie is at or near the bottom and Miller isn't even close. Sorry.

Miller is a solid coach by anyone's standards except for a few nimrods on this board. If Miller was to leave Arizona, there is no shortage of schools that would start to court him. Whatever he did didn't cause him to lose his job and to be honest done by a large portion of the coaching fraternity. Sorry. When Capel leaves and he were available, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. He would win here, and as important, stay here.

What I'll never understand is why some of you never let an opportunity go to trash him ( a solid four year performer ) while fawn over a guy who stayed here long enough for a cup of coffee and doesn't even have the school or city in his rear view mirror. Or the guy who bailed on his team and then chose to play against them. Those harboring a thirty year old grudge against Miller just ought to let it go. When it comes to Pitt alums, it sad to see us eat our own.

 

[Ski11585]

I was that "someone else" who had the audacity to challenge your ridiculous assertion. For the record, I hate these coaching comparisons because defending someone is largely interpreted as throwing the other guy under the bus. But the fact remains; Relative to seed, Jamie is at or near the bottom and Miller isn't even close. Sorry.

Miller is a solid coach by anyone's standards except for a few nimrods on this board. If Miller was to leave Arizona, there is no shortage of schools that would start to court him. Whatever he did didn't cause him to lose his job and to be honest done by a large portion of the coaching fraternity. Sorry. When Capel leaves and he were available, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. He would win here, and as important, stay here.

What I'll never understand is why some of you never let an opportunity go to trash him ( a solid four year performer ) while fawn over a guy who stayed here long enough for a cup of coffee and doesn't even have the school or city in his rear view mirror. Or the guy who bailed on his team and then chose to play against them. Those harboring a thirty year old grudge against Miller just ought to let it go. When it comes to Pitt alums, it sad to see us eat our own.

Thanks for the reminder!

As I'm only 34, I have no memories of Miller as a player. He's just a dude whose family has trashed Pitt and who is a good but not great coach.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I was that "someone else" who had the audacity to challenge your ridiculous assertion. For the record, I hate these coaching comparisons because defending someone is largely interpreted as throwing the other guy under the bus. But the fact remains; Relative to seed, Jamie is at or near the bottom and Miller isn't even close. Sorry.

Miller is a solid coach by anyone's standards except for a few nimrods on this board. If Miller was to leave Arizona, there is no shortage of schools that would start to court him. Whatever he did didn't cause him to lose his job and to be honest done by a large portion of the coaching fraternity. Sorry. When Capel leaves and he were available, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. He would win here, and as important, stay here.

What I'll never understand is why some of you never let an opportunity go to trash him ( a solid four year performer ) while fawn over a guy who stayed here long enough for a cup of coffee and doesn't even have the school or city in his rear view mirror. Or the guy who bailed on his team and then chose to play against them. Those harboring a thirty year old grudge against Miller just ought to let it go. When it comes to Pitt alums, it sad to see us eat our own.

Miller would certainly be more sought after if he and Dixon were both available but Miller's relative disappointments in March are something he has on his record. His performance vs seed is one of the worst. But Dixon IS the worst.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Miller would certainly be more sought after if he and Dixon were both available but Miller's relative disappointments in March are something he has on his record. His performance vs seed is one of the worst. But Dixon IS the worst.

He would be? UCLA tried to hire Dixon last year. Did they forget Sean Miller was available?

Pretty sure they tried to hire Dixon first when they hired Sean, btw.

 

[below0w]

Sean Miller has been pathetic since 14-15. That's the last year he managed to reach the Elite 8. At that point, I'd say his inability to make it to the Final 4 made him a bit of an underachiever, but still a good coach. Since then, however, he's been trash. Let's recap.

15-16: bounced in the first round by 11 seed Wichita
16-17: bounced in the Sweet 16 by 11 seed Xavier
17-18: bounced in the first round by 13 seed Buffalo
18-19: didn't make the tournament

The only two tournament games he won over those 4 years were against North Dakota and St. Mary's. All 3 losses were against significantly lesser seeds. He had DeAndre ****ing Ayton in 17-18 and still couldn't get out of the first round.

Anybody who wants to argue that he isn't an underachiever is either: a) a time traveler from the early 2010s, b) suffering from Alzheimer's, c) a member of the Miller family.

 

[Ski11585]

Miller would certainly be more sought after if he and Dixon were both available but Miller's relative disappointments in March are something he has on his record. His performance vs seed is one of the worst. But Dixon IS the worst.

Again. Context. Miller is worse, IMO, because he has underperformed with far, far, far more talent. Talent he absolutely would not land at a Pitt or Rutgers.

Sean Miller has been pathetic since 14-15. That's the last year he managed to reach the Elite 8. At that point, I'd say his inability to make it to the Final 4 made him a bit of an underachiever, but still a good coach. Since then, however, he's been trash. Let's recap.

15-16: bounced in the first round by 11 seed Wichita
16-17: bounced in the Sweet 16 by 11 seed Xavier
17-18: bounced in the first round by 13 seed Buffalo
18-19: didn't make the tournament

The only two tournament games he won over those 4 years were against North Dakota and St. Mary's. All 3 losses were against significantly lesser seeds. He had DeAndre ****ing Ayton in 17-18 and still couldn't get out of the first round.

Anybody who wants to argue that he isn't an underachiever is either: a) a time traveler from the early 2010s, b) suffering from Alzheimer's, c) a member of the Miller family.

Yup.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

As I'm only 34, I have no memories of Miller as a player. He's just a dude whose family has trashed Pitt and who is a good but not great coach.

Right. Pitt fans who harbor a 30 year grudge against Miller ought to let it go. Miller and his family though, apparently not.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Right. Pitt fans who harbor a 30 year grudge against Miller ought to let it go. Miller and his family though, apparently not.

So predictable.

 

[Ski11585]

Right. Pitt fans who harbor a 30 year grudge against Miller ought to let it go. Miller and his family though, apparently not.

I don’t really have any strong feelings about Miller. I just don’t think he’s some magic bullet greatest coach ever that will get Pitt over the hump. That gets people bent out of shape though.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don’t really have any strong feelings about Miller. I just don’t think he’s some magic bullet greatest coach ever that will get Pitt over the hump. That gets people bent out of shape though.

There are better coaches but if Capel left, there is no way Pitt would be able to land a better one.

 

[Ski11585]

There are better coaches but if Capel left, there is no way Pitt would be able to land a better one.

Thoroughly disagree.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Thoroughly disagree.

100 percent. There’s good coaches everywhere. We found Ben Howland at Northern Arizona. We lucked into Jamie being good.

Lot of dudes just need the chance. Look at Chris Beard. Who would’ve thought after a year at Arkansas Little Rock he would do what he’s doing at the worst job in the big 12?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So predictable.

I agree. It's so predictable that you would stand up for a guy who along with his family bad mouthed (and worse) Pitt for decades.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Thoroughly disagree.

Miller is a known commodity. While I agree he wouldnt be landing Arizona classes at Pitt, he recruits 1 level higher than the program status. Arizona isnt a blue blood. They are on that next level down with Lou, Mich, Florida, etc but he recruits with Duke, UK, KU, and UNC. When he was at Xavier, they were an A10 program who didnt even play on national TV most of the time (there were far fewer sports channels), but he was able to recruit at a high Big East level. He even beat Dixon and BK for BK's COUSIN Myles Davis.

Miller has coaching shortcomings but he would get Buzz Williams talent here. There is no question about that. That is guaranteed. Give me the talent and I'll take my chances. That's better than a lottery ticket.

 

[Ski11585]

Miller is a known commodity. While I agree he wouldnt be landing Arizona classes at Pitt, he recruits 1 level higher than the program status. Arizona isnt a blue blood. They are on that next level down with Lou, Mich, Florida, etc but he recruits with Duke, UK, KU, and UNC. When he was at Xavier, they were an A10 program who didnt even play on national TV most of the time (there were far fewer sports channels), but he was able to recruit at a high Big East level. He even beat Dixon and BK for BK's COUSIN Myles Davis.

Miller has coaching shortcomings but he would get Buzz Williams talent here. There is no question about that. That is guaranteed. Give me the talent and I'll take my chances. That's better than a lottery ticket.

I couldn't disagree more regarding Arizona's status as a blue blood. They are the top program on the West Coast. They went to 26 consecutive NCAAs. Every coach they've had since Lute has recruited well. Similarly, Xavier was a top 1-3 mid major and it wasn't like Miller was stepping into an empty cabinet.

You are drastically underestimating the pull of Arizona.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I couldn't disagree more regarding Arizona's status as a blue blood. They are the top program on the West Coast. They went to 26 consecutive NCAAs. Every coach they've had since Lute has recruited well. Similarly, Xavier was a top 1-3 mid major and it wasn't like Miller was stepping into an empty cabinet.

You are drastically underestimating the pull of Arizona.

Blue Bloods
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas

Next Level
Arizona
Louisville
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Florida
Syracuse
Virginia
UCLA
Gonzaga

Come on, you know Arizona belongs in the group I put them in. They are not a "national brand." They are an excellent program but they arent Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky from a brand/program standpoint