Tomlin is a sure fire Hall of fame coach. Not sure why some continue to disrespect his body of work,but I habe a good guess
#Tomlining
- Thread starter Dan1911
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His handling of this guy? A true hero.
Alejandro Villanueva (American football) - Wikipedia
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so your initial post is about how he loses to inferior teams... but then argument against his record is that he beats inferior teams. lol.
His handling of this guy? A true hero.
Alejandro Villanueva (American football) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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So he couldn't get past arguably the greatest dynasty in NFL history...the horror.
Tomlin is 18-16-1 (I believe, did a quick count looking at Steelers game passing leaders in schedule on ESPN) without Ben during the regular season.
Some of the worst play calling ever and that's on Canada. Why in the world did they trade up to get Bush, a total bust.
Mike Sullivan’s winning percentage with the Penguins is .658. Mike Tomlin’s winning percentage is .649. Mike Sullivan has won two championships, Mike Tomlin has won 1.
Anyone who thinks Mike Tomlin is better has to be racist against the Irish.
Tomlin has this iteration of the Steelers in contention for a playoff spot at this point in the season. Any reasonable person would admit that's pretty damn good given what he has to work with and how the season started.
He wasn’t getting the job done on the football field.His handling of this guy? A true hero.
Alejandro Villanueva (American football) - Wikipedia
Yes, BC won w Noll players from day one. Context ... Noll literally went .500 for the entire decade prior.
BC didnt win his sb until he got Ben. But he brought the 3-4 zone blitz to the nfl and had a VERY clear team identity, physically imposing.
He was burnt out his last year, it all rolled up on him, never having been able to fully grieve losing his wife and the emotion of finally winning the sb, there is a reason he never went back to coaching.
Outside of being loquacious what has Tomlin brought to the team? His biggest attribute was being lucky enough to be hired by the most stable organization in sports with a HOB QB in his forth season. Had Dick Lebeau as his DC as the kicker.
When DL aged out, he promoted the lb coach to DC. One OC was a Steelers legacy, the current one did a stop over at the shared facility.
He friggen hired Tom Bradley, w literally no pro experience.
He clearly is a good players coach and that is big in this day and age, and obviously is self confident, but by and large he mostly is going along for the ride.
Not kneeling for the anthem? Check - Not getting the job done on the field
Not wearing the proper helmet decal? - Check - Not getting the job done on the field
Telling the truth about both situations - Not a “team” player
The ultimate stories becone an embarrassment for the Head Coach.
Strike 1-2-3 - Presto Changeo !!!
What better way to “motivate” the remaining players to be more “Team Tomlin”.
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No, but the team has been going down hill each and ever time one of Cowher's players would move on.
I'm not expecting a super bowl every year but when is the last time they won a playoff game?
When push comes to shove in January they are just not competitive anymore. He has no accountability and is pretty much an untouchable.
It's sad.
Naw. Just pisses me off how he gets a pass for being average with no accountability.
He pretty much left AB run training camp, turning it into a three ring circus till they tried to lasso him after the cell phone fiasco in the locker room after they beat KC in the playoffs.
You think Cowher or Noll would have left AB have his own personal assistant with at camp?
I honestly think they peaked with Tomlin with Cowher's players. I don't see any upside moving forward with him.
Just my two cents.
Yeah along for the ride. Just the 10th highest winning percentage in NFL history among coaches with 10+ seasons and did it in the toughest conference top to bottom in the NFL during his tenure (Most wildcard teams sent to playoffs).
He hired Bradley as a position coach. Willing to be Cowher didn't hire any position coaches straight from the college ranks?
He had the #1 scoring defense in the NFL 3 times, Cowher once.
He had the #1 defense in yards allowed 4 times, Cowher twice.
He won his division (toughest in NFL) 7 times, Cowher 8 times.
No. He is not a "great coach" anymore. He has 3 "gifted or fluky" playoff wins since 2010. He has had a Hall of Famer at QB the entire time. He has had in varying times, a top WR, a top RB, even top defenses. You can argue "not all at the same time", but who does.
Where is the Mike Tomlin coaching tree? 14 years. Where is his tree? Where are the assistants that invariably go on to other jobs (promotions?). Besides piss poor drafting mostly over the last 7 years, his staff has been worse than most mid level P5 colleges. I am not sure why ownership is allowing this. They forced Chuck Noll to change coaches when things weren't getting done.
This organization has grown stale. Kevin Colbert needs to retire. Mike Tomlin needs to be told to fire his coordinators and some position coaches, and go out and get talented. Mike Tomlin needs challenged from within. I think that is why this franchise has grown stale. His unwillingness to do this, is indicative of maybe someone afraid to hear new voices, be challenged to change. Even Bill Belichick brings in top guys.
He's a Hall of Famer...but he hasn't been "really, really good for a long time". The fact is, good coaches also realize their weaknesses. And Tomlin's weaknesses have been two fold. 1) First and foremost a JV level staff. These clowns, Fichtner, Matt Canada is a clown, he is a bit skewed here by his ONE season of success at Pitt, Keith Butler, the OLine coach, all of these guys, no one goes on to a coordinator from a position coach or a head coach from a coordinator, thought under Cowher and Noll, the Steelers had many. 2) Really some bad drafting. I am not talking about just #1's, I am talking rds 2-4, where most teams build their starters, the last 7 years save for maybe 2 of them, the drafts have been horrible. And he is part of that.
He was near pro bowl caliber before the injury. Since then he hasn’t looked the same. Sometimes it takes an extra year from the injury for players to get back to what they were. Sometimes the player is never the same.
Cowher rebuilt the organization two times, when he initially took over and after that initial group aged out. He won his SB at the end, with a team he fully built and after he was lucky enough to FINALLY have a franchise QB.
MT was lucky enough to plug into that, and was smart enough t just go along for the ride instead of trying to prove something. He plugged into the Ben, Polo, Smith et all normative system instead of letting his ego lea him to trying to prove who was boss.
Yes, MT had the #1 scoring defense three times - with the DC that Bill Cowher hired. Thanks for making my point.
Bill Cowher had 6 of his coaches get head coaching gigs. MT has had ... 1, who he inherited from Bill Cowher
BC won the division 8 times. Once with Ben. The other seven times with O'Donnell and Kordell.
Tomlin has won the division 7 times. Guess who the QB was for each of them?
Look, he is what he is. A really confident and lucky dude. Again, he is one of the best players coaches ever in a time when that is what a coach has to be. But, his master skill has been knowing he was touched by the hand of god to be hired as the Steelers coach and not doing anything to screw that up.
3 pages and no one has mentioned his quesitonable game-day coaching decisions. He is known around the league for making dubious 4th down decisions on whether to go for it or punt that go firmly against the analytics.
His challenge success rate the last 8 years is also abysmal at roughly 30%.
Many other coaching responsibilities can be outsourced to other staff (play-calling, talent evaluation/scouting, practice and drills). However, challenges and 4th down decisions are major game-day responsibilities that the HC has the final call on; and he routinely flubs them.
I've been in the camp for a long time that thinks he is overrated. Coaches are supposed to win championships. That is the ultimate barometer they are judged on. Outside of winning the SB in 09 with a team he largely inherited (and a HoF defensive coordinator in LeBeau), his playoff success has been underwhelming given the talent he carried/developed after 09.
His challenge success rate the last 8 years is also abysmal at roughly 30%.
Many other coaching responsibilities can be outsourced to other staff (play-calling, talent evaluation/scouting, practice and drills). However, challenges and 4th down decisions are major game-day responsibilities that the HC has the final call on; and he routinely flubs them.
I've been in the camp for a long time that thinks he is overrated. Coaches are supposed to win championships. That is the ultimate barometer they are judged on. Outside of winning the SB in 09 with a team he largely inherited (and a HoF defensive coordinator in LeBeau), his playoff success has been underwhelming given the talent he carried/developed after 09.
Dude, he SUCKED his last few seasons with the team! If he wasn't a human turnstile he was getting called for drive killing penalties.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Since the SB loss to Green Bay, up to the beginning of this season, Tomlin has 102 wins in ten season.
Ask yourself how a team that has been so dominant for the last decade has only won three playoff games (one was absolutely gifted by Cincy) and completely missed the playoffs four times. Without the bonehead ending of that game, you would have had five seasons of double digit wins with ZERO playoff wins. during that span. Tell me how you can be that dominant for ten years in the NFL and have next to nothing to show for it?
Ask yourself how a team that has been so dominant for the last decade has only won three playoff games (one was absolutely gifted by Cincy) and completely missed the playoffs four times. Without the bonehead ending of that game, you would have had five seasons of double digit wins with ZERO playoff wins. during that span. Tell me how you can be that dominant for ten years in the NFL and have next to nothing to show for it?
Cowher had Lebeau as coordinator for 5 seasons and only managed top scoring defense once compared to Tomlin's 4 times in 8 seasons. I guess Tomlin is even better than I thought if he was able to get that much more out of the same coordinator.
Cowher missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, something Tomlin has never done. Cowher missed the playoffs 4 times in a 6 season period, also something Tomlin has never done.
I forget, does a head coach not have any say in the importance of drafting a QB? Was Tomlin also stopping Cowher from fighting to get a franchise QB in the draft from 1992-2003? Only once in 12 seasons did the Steelers draft a QB in the first 4 rounds.
Also remember that Cowher wanted to draft OL Shawn Andrews (Who only started 3 seasons in the NFL) but Rooney overruled him and the GM to draft Ben. So remind me who lucked into their Super Bowl?
Cowher inherited a team with Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Hardy Nickerson, and Dermontti Dawson all under age 27. So let's not pretend the cupboard was bare.
Cowher is an absolute legend of a coach, but Tomlin is right there with him in virtually every category.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Are you talking about how many times the defense scores or how many points a defense gives up?
Not sure who you are saying pretended that the "cupboard was bare."
I accurately noted that Noll had literally been .500 for the 80s.
Noll's record the four seasons prior to Cowher coming on board:
5-11 / fourth in the division
9-7 / third in the division
9-7 / third in the division
7-9 / second in the division
11- 5 / first in the division (Cowher's first year).
SO, again, making my point, regardless of what he inherited, he immediately turned the team around.
Funny how people turn themselves into knots about this.
Poor Tomlin isn't responsible for his coaching hires, he just does what management says. Poor Tomlin isn't responsible for players fumbling the ball or basically any of the on field performances when they don't shine him a good light.
But, Cowher was responsible for not squatting out a HOF quarterback.
I am out on this note ...
"Also remember that Cowher wanted to draft OL Shawn Andrews (Who only started 3 seasons in the NFL) but Rooney overruled him and the GM to draft Ben. So remind me who lucked into their Super Bowl?"
I LITERALLY POSTED COWHER DIDN'T WIN HIS SB UNTIL HE WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO DRAFT A HOF QB.
But, you want to slag BC over Shane Andrews you are slagging your guy, too, cause he similarly would be ringless today if Ben wasn't a Steeler.
Imagine a coaching career in the NFL that is 15 years in and you never once had to address the QB position, which has been on automatic pilot for 18 years.
Mike Tomlin’s coaching career is very similar to Sean Payton’s imo. Both had Hall of Fame qbs, both haven’t won Super Bowls in years, both basically above average teams for several years. Never really heard about Payton being on a hot seat though, could be wrong. Of course Brees was a better quarterback than Roethlisberger too
pittdan77
Athletic Director
They're identical. Only difference is that Payton won NO's first Super Bowl and the ref's robbed them from going to another so Payton owns the town. Very low expectations. Not the case in PGH. You have to actually win championships.
Imagine trying to find any reasoning to diminish the accomplishments of one of the winningest coaches in NFL history, then accusing his defenders of twisting themselves in knots.
I think Tomlin and Cowher are basically the same guy. They both achieved good results, but few consider them great football minds (And racism has nothing to do with that)
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