Toney gone...

[levance2]

Maybe Capel can right the ship. Maybe he can't. But I'm not going to be upset that we gave ourselves a good chance and went belly up. This isn't Stallings 2.0 even if the next few years look grim.

The difference is that Stallings was criminally negligent if not downright self-destructive here. I have been very critical of Capel this year, but I don't think any single thing he's done, in a vacuum, is so wrong. He's right to push guys out if they don't buy into his vision, even if that means Capel ends up getting fired.

 

[Dan1911]

I’ll say SMF starts pining for Sean Miller or Rick Pitino within 24 hours.

I am. Better than this schitt

 

[Protes]

Unreal. There's no way to sugarcoat any of this. The program is in disarray and it's hard to have any confidence HCJC is going to be able to fix it.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Guess it’s freshman time !

Losing gets frustrating, but quitting on your teammates with 4 games remaining is inexcusable .

It would be interesting to see what actually was going on behind closed doors .

With the transfer wavier we’re seeing the wave of the future for struggling programs . Their better players will always be looking for greener pastures . A can of worms has been opened !

 

[TD_6082]

Capel was a good hire. He had experience, strong recruiter, well liked. We did well hiring him and I don't think we realistically could have done better.

Sadly, making the right decision doesn't always lead to great results. Some hands you put your money in with the best odds and still lose. It sucks, it happens.

Maybe Capel can right the ship. Maybe he can't. But I'm not going to be upset that we gave ourselves a good chance and went belly up. This isn't Stallings 2.0 even if the next few years look grim.

He was never a good hire. You knew going in managing egos and creating a team culture were not his strengths. He was a chance hire with the upside being his recruiting prowess and the hope that he would give Pitt an identity in the ACC.

Stallings never got a fair shake at Pitt. His 2 years were a disaster, but at least the players he recruited wanted to play for him.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

He wants to win. And he now sees no path to that.
He'll be going to a winning program.
Too many wheels fell off for him to stick around.

He wants to win... so he quit. Will to win and quitting don't typically happen together.

Something else going on here.

 

[Parkview57]

You knew going in managing egos and creating a team culture were not his strengths.

You knew, but some of us figured it out these last 2 1/2 years, some are still denying it.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Good points but the coach is responsible for the success of the team! I think Coach C is here for at least next yr if not the next 2 unless we completely tank.

I think we are completely tanking. Or starting to tank. The toilet will flush soon and going into next year. Good players don't leave good programs because good coaches find a way to keep them. Losing 2 of your 3 best players before the year is even over shows incompetence and a total lack of quality recruiting on the part of the head coach. Don't believe the sugar-coated words for the reasons they're leaving. They're leaving because they know they could do better somewhere else and actually get to a tournament. At Pitt, there is no chance of that happening for at least the next 5 years.

So now we're back to rebuilding years for at least the next 2 years, probably more like 3. This head coach has a lot of explaining to do and even more recruiting results are needed, and very quickly.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

It very well could be that, but it also isn't productive for a coach to claim, "Hey, all the players I've recruited refuse to listen to me!"

It sure sounds like that's what they're saying. And it's just a flimsy excuse that means nothing.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I don’t see any reason for a player who “likes it here” to leave with less than a month left in the season.

And good players don't leave good programs unless they see no chance of winning where they are. That's where we are now. The players KNOW there is no chance of winning here and better recruits aren't coming to help.

Somehow, I hear a spigot just opening and the floodgates of departure are just opening.

 

[Drew1208]

He wants to win... so he quit. Will to win and quitting don't typically happen together.

Something else going on here.

Yes. I was just repeating on what i heard.

However there is a very long detailed, informed post on the payboard that goes into much larger depth.
And yes it goes much deeper
I was simply just sharing what i heard nothing more.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Yes. I was just repeating on what i heard.

However there is a very long detailed, informed post on the payboard that goes into much larger depth.
And yes it goes much deeper
I was simply just sharing what i heard nothing more.

Understand, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Something else is driving some of this.

 

[FireballZ]

You have to seriously wonder what kind of dysfunction is going on. This is frustrating...

I’ve mentioned this before, but just the way the team very clearly treated Murphy last year and AKC this year with disdain during the game. There are major issues in this program. And the team chemistry and makeup starts with the coach.

 

[TD_6082]

The difference is that Stallings was criminally negligent if not downright self-destructive here. I have been very critical of Capel this year, but I don't think any single thing he's done, in a vacuum, is so wrong. He's right to push guys out if they don't buy into his vision, even if that means Capel ends up getting fired.

You can't put guys on the floor 30+ minutes a night and have them be the face of your program for 3 years before pushing them out because they don't buy into the vision. That process has to play out a lot quicker and you have to recruit to fill that void pronto.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I’ve mentioned this before, but just the way the team very clearly treated Murphy last year and AKC this year with disdain during the game. There are major issues in this program. And team chemistry and makeup starts with the coach.

Murphy should have been treated with disdain -
A shooter who can’t shoot doesn’t deserve the ball.
They seem to have no problem passing to Horton

Murphy is onto his what 4th school already ?

 

[levance2]

You can't put guys on the floor 30+ minutes a night and have them be the face of your program for 3 years before pushing them out because they don't buy into the vision. That process has to play out a lot quicker and you have to recruit to fill that void pronto.

I agree and have said as much. He was wrong in how he has handled them for three years. However, it's a sunk cost fallacy to imply that after three years of not listening to him, Capel's somehow compelled to tolerate it for a fourth.

Capel's under contract no matter what, so he has to control and rectify what seems like a toxic locker room. It might not save his job, but at least he's doing his job. If he brings in a class full of trash like Stallings did, then he will get fired like Stallings did. Pretty simple.

 

[FireballZ]

I really don’t think these are huge losses IF Capel has capable replacements lined up. I’m not talking replacements that will average 14 next year, but young TEAM guys that will be ready to be meaningful contributors in 2022.

Trey, XJ and Toney were clearly selfish players. That’s why you come to an 0-18 program.

And not to be harsh, but how can you have basketball IQ when you clearly don’t have basic IQ. Have you heard those three in pressers? They could barely complete a sentence.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

You can't put guys on the floor 30+ minutes a night and have them be the face of your program for 3 years before pushing them out because they don't buy into the vision. That process has to play out a lot quicker and you have to recruit to fill that void pronto.

Sure you can
As soon as the players tune out the coach - they need to face consequences .

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I really don’t think these are huge losses IF Capel has capable replacements lined up. I’m not talking replacements that will average 14 next year, but young TEAM guys that will be ready to be meaningful contributors in 2022.

Trey, XJ and Toney were clearly selfish players. That’s why you come to an 0-18 program.

And not to be harsh, but how can you have basketball IQ when you clearly don’t have basic IQ. Have you heard those three in pressers? They could barely complete a sentence.

Toney was absolutely NOT a selfish player

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

Representatives from the Men's Basketball team have been spotted on campus handing out "Basketball Players Wanted" flyers

 

[TD_6082]

I agree and have said as much. He was wrong in how he has handled them for three years. However, it's a sunk cost fallacy to imply that after three years of not listening to him, Capel's somehow compelled to tolerate it for a fourth.

Capel's under contract no matter what, so he has to control and rectify what seems like a toxic locker room. It might not save his job, but at least he's doing his job. If he brings in a class full of trash like Stallings did, then he will get fired like Stallings did. Pretty simple.

I think Stallings was taking a long term approach at building a program. Some of the guys he brought in were obviously never going to contribute as ACC players. They were just bodies to fill the roster that he would have recruited over the next year. I'm sure he thought Cam & Luther were going to be 2 of his starting 5 in year 2.

I agree with what you're saying about Capel's situation regarding guys that aren't listening to him. However, if he doesn't have the positions filled with players ready to take over next year, he's going down the exact same road Stallings did - only he's delayed the process a couple of seasons.

 

[levance2]

I agree with what you're saying about Capel's situation regarding guys that aren't listening to him. However, if he doesn't have the positions filled with players ready to take over next year, he's going down the exact same road Stallings did - only he's delayed the process a couple of seasons.

Stallings built what was potentially the worst roster in ACC history and was rightfully fired for it. If that is what Capel does for 2022, he will deserve to be fired just the same.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

What does quitting on your team so close to the end of the season really say about you as a player and person?

 

[TD_6082]

Stallings built what was potentially the worst roster in ACC history and was rightfully fired for it. If that is what Capel does for 2022, he will deserve to be fired just the same.

That can happen to any second year coach in year two when they are taking over an already filled roster from the previous regime. As I said earlier, the plan was to go into year 2 with Cam & Luther.

Ironically, his successor at Vandy ran into the exact same thing & he was also fired and replaced with a mediocre coach. (Actually, Drew was in year 3) IMO, Bryce Drew is capable of putting together one hell of a roster if you just give the man a little time and let him work through it. He got Pippen Jr and Disu to Vandy. Never got to coach them though. Never got to coach Garland. But he had to go because 0-18 or whatever. Let's focus on that and ignore his track record of winning and current recruiting success.

 

[levance2]

That can happen to any second year coach in year two when they are taking over an already filled roster from the previous regime. As I said earlier, the plan was to go into year 2 with Cam & Luther.

His mismanagement of the team in Year 1 is why Cam and Luther both left.

 

[TD_6082]

His mismanagement of the team in Year 1 is why Cam and Luther both left.

Luther didn't leave. He got hurt in year 2. He left after Stallings was fired.

Ryan Luther's tweet supports former Pitt coach Kevin Stallings (apnews.com)

 

[CougarClaws]

He wants to win... so he quit. Will to win and quitting don't typically happen together.

Something else going on here.

Yup.

 

[CougarClaws]

Toney was absolutely NOT a selfish player

And he absolutely was not an innocent bystander.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

And he absolutely was not an innocent bystander.

He sure plays hard and was our best defensive player by far
Don’t be silly

 

[CougarClaws]

He sure plays hard and was our best defensive player by far
Don’t be silly

Oh I'm not equating him with the train wreck that was X & Trey. He's floated through most of the games since 1/18 though, and was a real handful behind the scenes.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Oh I'm not equating him with the train wreck that was X & Trey. He's floated through most of the games since 1/18 though, and was a real handful behind the scenes.

I don’t buy this gossip crap

 

[CougarClaws]

I don’t buy this gossip crap

What do you buy? That it's all the coach's faults?

 

[FireballZ]

Murphy should have been treated with disdain -
A shooter who can’t shoot doesn’t deserve the ball.
They seem to have no problem passing to Horton

Murphy is onto his what 4th school already ?

Yeah, Murphy is a moron, but I’m talking pre concussion Murphy when they were winning. Even at the high points, they didn’t like him. A program like Pitt that is not gonna be loaded with 4 and 5 stars needs kids that just love to win, even if they don’t love the teammates that help them win. It was clear to me that there’s jealously amongst the core when they aren’t the star of the game, even if it means they are winning. That’s a huge programmatic concern.

 

[levance2]

Luther didn't leave. He got hurt in year 2. He left after Stallings was fired.

Ryan Luther's tweet supports former Pitt coach Kevin Stallings (apnews.com)

Correct, thank you

 

[NTOP]

I think Stallings was taking a long term approach at building a program. Some of the guys he brought in were obviously never going to contribute as ACC players. They were just bodies to fill the roster that he would have recruited over the next year. I'm sure he thought Cam & Luther were going to be 2 of his starting 5 in year 2.

I agree with what you're saying about Capel's situation regarding guys that aren't listening to him. However, if he doesn't have the positions filled with players ready to take over next year, he's going down the exact same road Stallings did - only he's delayed the process a couple of seasons.

Stallings had NO plan at all. His wife stayed in Nashville. He got a gold watch contract and screwed Pitt. He's a bum.

 

[Millerton24]

I’ll say SMF starts pining for Sean Miller or Rick Pitino within 24 hours.

Hey, SMF was pretty much right about these

And good players don't leave good programs unless they see no chance of winning where they are. That's where we are now. The players KNOW there is no chance of winning here and better recruits aren't coming to help.

Somehow, I hear a spigot just opening and the floodgates of departure are just opening.

Then they mustn't be good players.

 

[NTOP]

Hey, SMF was pretty much right about these
Then they mustn't be good players.

They are Capel's players. This isn't about skill, it's about character.

 

[Drew1208]

Understand, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Something else is driving some of this.

There's alot driving this. A real lot.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

What do you buy? That it's all the coach's faults?

Nah
Kids want to leave for various reasons
This malcontent gossip - I don’t give much credibility .
Toney played hard all the time
Honestly so did X
That’s all that matters

 

[CougarClaws]

Nah
Kids want to leave for various reasons
This malcontent gossip - I don’t give much credibility .
Toney played hard all the time
Honestly so did X
That’s all that matters

Tony absolutely did not play hard this last month.