Urban Knew
- Thread starter TempleBAPittMPA
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When Urban left UF, most thought he would coach again...then the police blotter of his time on Gainesville came out and there was a definite pattern of looking the other way or bringing in his heavy hitter attorney that was his "fixer".
The question is why after the 2009 Zach Smith abuse incident in Gainesville did Urban think he should be brought to Columbus?
Then with the continued incidents...the questions I have are just like the PSU questions:
Why keep this Coach on staff?
Why keep this quiet?
I both cases I think the only answer is the Head Coach doesn't want a negative light shown on their program.
Period.
Pattern of recruiting and looking the other way at criminal behavior by Urban Meyer.
Pattern of cheating at OSU.
The pro OSU and Meyer arguments I've seen are all based on legal technicalities -- but juts because he didn't break a law doesn't mean he can't be or shouldn't be fired. There is a lot of things I could do to get my fired at my job that have nothing to do with criminal charges.
Pattern of cheating at OSU.
The pro OSU and Meyer arguments I've seen are all based on legal technicalities -- but juts because he didn't break a law doesn't mean he can't be or shouldn't be fired. There is a lot of things I could do to get my fired at my job that have nothing to do with criminal charges.
I don't think there is any doubt he should be fired. I will be surprised if OSU does it, though, and if they do, I imagine he would sit out a year and be re-hired by someone else for the 2019 or 2020 season. Might be a little quick on the 2019 season.
I posted this is the other thread on this...but it fits here too.
You know, we, the general public, completely miss the point on this. We somehow think college football is this local Pee Wee program, about teaching kids how to be accountable and work, and bounce back after adversity while learning the game of football. That the "adults" (coaches) are guys who really want the best and want to develop these kids.
This is a multimillion dollar business. It is really not much different than the NFL. Coaches are fired based on W&L records or if they get caught cheating, not because they cheated, but because they go caught and schools have to offer up sacrificial lambs to the NCAA gods to lessen or mitigate punishment.
Football players, and their star crossed parents don't care about a lot of this stuff. It is just "can he get my kid to the NFL?", "what are they offering us as perks to go there?", "how much of a god will my son be and how many fans will idolize him?". Not all, but 90 out of a 100.
So we think things like this matters. Like Penn State, really outside the fear of sanctions, the unknown of those sanctions, that whole sordid affair at Penn State was a mere speed bump. Look at it another way, Pitt's SI article damaged the program under Wanny, than the Sandusky scandal did to PSU. And one wonders, if Wanny didn't say beat WVU and UC that year and finished 11-1, and the next year beat UConn and went to back to back BCS bowls if he would have been pushed out? The SI lack of discipline hack job was a convenient excuse.
But no kid spurned Pitt because of that article, they spurned Pitt because of coaching changes, because of mediocre records and an endless procession to the BBVA Compass bowl and yellow seats. Urban Meyer didn't do anything to affect the footballing part of Ohio State. If there are no widespread protests, likely he will be suspended, then tOSU will forge some sort of "proactive program on spousal abuse", in fact, they will have some candlelight vigil or moment of silence "for the victims" of spousal abuse. It will be a grand display and great pageantry and no doubt a local columnist will write a column along the lines of "the Healing Has Begun!"
And the program will move, 2-3 Top 100 recruits will commit, no worries of any improprieties that at least doesn't affect the football program. And so it goes.......
You know, we, the general public, completely miss the point on this. We somehow think college football is this local Pee Wee program, about teaching kids how to be accountable and work, and bounce back after adversity while learning the game of football. That the "adults" (coaches) are guys who really want the best and want to develop these kids.
This is a multimillion dollar business. It is really not much different than the NFL. Coaches are fired based on W&L records or if they get caught cheating, not because they cheated, but because they go caught and schools have to offer up sacrificial lambs to the NCAA gods to lessen or mitigate punishment.
Football players, and their star crossed parents don't care about a lot of this stuff. It is just "can he get my kid to the NFL?", "what are they offering us as perks to go there?", "how much of a god will my son be and how many fans will idolize him?". Not all, but 90 out of a 100.
So we think things like this matters. Like Penn State, really outside the fear of sanctions, the unknown of those sanctions, that whole sordid affair at Penn State was a mere speed bump. Look at it another way, Pitt's SI article damaged the program under Wanny, than the Sandusky scandal did to PSU. And one wonders, if Wanny didn't say beat WVU and UC that year and finished 11-1, and the next year beat UConn and went to back to back BCS bowls if he would have been pushed out? The SI lack of discipline hack job was a convenient excuse.
But no kid spurned Pitt because of that article, they spurned Pitt because of coaching changes, because of mediocre records and an endless procession to the BBVA Compass bowl and yellow seats. Urban Meyer didn't do anything to affect the footballing part of Ohio State. If there are no widespread protests, likely he will be suspended, then tOSU will forge some sort of "proactive program on spousal abuse", in fact, they will have some candlelight vigil or moment of silence "for the victims" of spousal abuse. It will be a grand display and great pageantry and no doubt a local columnist will write a column along the lines of "the Healing Has Begun!"
And the program will move, 2-3 Top 100 recruits will commit, no worries of any improprieties that at least doesn't affect the football program. And so it goes.......
Ohio newspaper might have been concerned about local backlash if they reported this story whereas Facebook users can care less
Urban could have been dropped in the Watergate hearing room and blended right in. The seas have changed in the times since our pedd-protectors to the east were exposed for the ratfinks they are. One is the #metoo movement and the climate of scorched earth where abusers are concerned, and the other is those damned text messages between the wives. Paper trail, n'at.
The Big Ten East sure is a passel of pervs, pedos and predators. Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State....
Forget for a minute the coverup (I did not know -- when he did) .... What should Meyer have done when he first heard about these (as far as I know not being pursued criminally) allegations?
I will assume, fire the guy is the correct answer every one believes..but what the hell good does that do the abused gal who is not seeking protection or filing charges or getting away from the guy? Now is she not only abused, she is seen to this knucklehead abusive assistant as the reason his career is toast...
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A mistake? He ignored one of his coaches beating the shit out of his wife for a decade, while preaching "Treat Women with Respect" as core program value, and then lied about it. This wasn't a "mistake".
The way I look at all of this stuff is that the states punish people, and employers shouldn't. If he is not in jail and has served his STATE punishment, and hasn't missed a beat doing his job, IMO that's good enough - That's how it always was until everyone became so anal over the top. Like I got a DUI in 1990, my employer knew about it and I got NO SANCTION, I paid my fine and was punished by the state, that's how it should be.
Depends on your role and function within the company/University...
If your boss is an a-hole and the janitor wipes his/her backside on his/her keyboard.. grounds for dismissal? Or does it depend if he/she had corn the night before...
Also depends on where you work, private at-will, union or government, and your performance too, if you are doing a good job and they like your work, if not maybe they use it as an excuse to dump you.
Agree.. if you are a performer pretty safe and slap on the wrist/take a class.. poor performer.. c'ya.
You weren't punished by your employer because you meant squat in the grand scheme of things and it didn't reflect on the company or impact your ability to work. You and Urban Meyer (or a coach of any college football program) are not analogous.
so he ignored...what should he have done knowing allegations sans charges? not looking for a scrap here but not sure how the abused woman makes out any better whether Meyer ignored it or not..
I guess it depends on what you are after and who you are. Urban Meyer sells that he is a decent, godly man and has program core values, which include "Treating Women With Respect". He sells that as part of his persona and, in turn, so does Ohio State. Also, he is the face of a major University via their multi million dollar business of college football. They have reporting standards. They have ethics clauses. Their coaches have reporting standards. They have ethics clauses.
As a decent person, I would expect he would implore the young woman to press charges if she is afraid, get help, get away, and follow up. He shouldn't send middle men to dissuade her from reporting. He should actively play a role in getting his coach/friend help. When he knows (and yes, he absolutely knew) it continues he should do what he can to put a stop to it and offer help. In this situation? I would imagine that means encouraging charges, protection, and assistance. He is a multi millionaire and he was a party to an environment of abuse. He could have offered a multitude of ways to reach out and protect this young woman and her children.
As the figure head of a major University? Fire the guy as soon as you hear about it. Instantly. If for some reason you have doubts about the situation, you report and log it, monitor it closely, and take the steps to cover your ass (like he says they did in 2009) and at any other instance you fire the guy. Immediately. You don't lie about knowing it is happening. You don't just look for a way to get him quietly away from your program and play dumb.
Yes another problem, you have to wait for the poor performer to commit a crime before they are fired , which is also a real pain for the other workers who have to constantly work harder because of the slacker, one of my pet peeves as I get older
Actually Meyer meaning more to their outcome makes it harder to fire him. Buckeye fans want to win more than they want to be moral.
I don't know where you live and work, but PA is an at-will state, which means that an employee can be fired at any time for any reason - unless there is a union contract involved, or a question of discrimination.
Still are thousands of people under government or union contracts,
1. Every state (well 49 in theory but in essence all 50) is at all employment
2. It is true most union contracts require just cause for termination and that most state employees have at least some civil service protections.
3. Urban Meyer isn't covered by a union contract and I am not sure civil service protections would really matter here because of #4.
4. He does have an individual contract with Ohio State that probably suggests he can be terminated for a variety of things.
5. Regardless of the exact details of #4, Ohio State is probably going to just terminate him and deal with the fall out of that in court or in a settlement.
2. It is true most union contracts require just cause for termination and that most state employees have at least some civil service protections.
3. Urban Meyer isn't covered by a union contract and I am not sure civil service protections would really matter here because of #4.
4. He does have an individual contract with Ohio State that probably suggests he can be terminated for a variety of things.
5. Regardless of the exact details of #4, Ohio State is probably going to just terminate him and deal with the fall out of that in court or in a settlement.
I've been working in PA since '72 and I would say that in the last 12-15 years it has rarely been that simple, or so its seems to me, for one as a laborer working hourly wages it is hard to find people who will consistently show up so I see my bosses trying to encourage those who will show up to improve rather than just dump them. I have a really good boss now, young guy who works hard, but he is constantly dealing with trying to get his work accomplished with a lot of 2 star recruits
.P.S. They have to pass the drug test as well
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We live in a society that treats Mike McQueery like an outcast and a coward because he didn't act soon enough or violently enough or take it upon himself to go to the police or somehow do more, but we'll sit here and debate the merits of what Urb knew and if it's enough to get him fired.
I know child rape doesn't quite equate to spousal abuse (it's damn close) but it's a weird double standard.
I know child rape doesn't quite equate to spousal abuse (it's damn close) but it's a weird double standard.
I've been working in PA since '72 and I would say that in the last 12-15 years it has rarely been that simple, or so its seems to me, for one as a laborer working hourly wages it is hard to find people who will consistently show up so I see my bosses trying to encourage those who will show up to improve rather than just dump them. I have a really good boss now, young guy who works hard, but he is constantly dealing with trying to get his work accomplished with a lot of 2 star recruits
P.S. They have to pass the drug test as well
Drug test.. who would've thought..this world is wacked.
I agree with your outline above and personally think he should be fired...and my reason is simple: After the 2009 incident in Gainesville...why would Urban rehire him? Its just poor judgment but make no mistake about it, UF was a mess conduct wise when he was down here in Fla. and it is a matter of time OSU ends up the same.
Urban will win. Urban will look the other way. You don't have such a heavy hitter "fixer" like he does for pro bono work.
I get the vibe that the "protocol" or "process" was followed statement by Urban is the beginning of the posturing and he will be the OSU Coach in 2019.
...And speaking of posturing Zach Smith is a POS.
"Zach Smith concedes that photos that show Courtney Smith's injuries could be the result of incidences where "things got out of hand," but maintains that it would have been self-defense on his part or a case where he was trying to restrain his ex-wife."
What a POS of a person.
https://collegefootballtalk.nbcspor...ims-self-defense-and-denies-stalking-ex-wife/
What a POS of a person.
https://collegefootballtalk.nbcspor...ims-self-defense-and-denies-stalking-ex-wife/
Urban Knew and Urban will be back on the practice field in no time.
I predict next at Friday's news dump Ohio State announces Meyer did everything he needed to do on his end. How do you fire the second-best coach in college football and pay him $38 million if you can't find cause? This isn't like the Texas Tech situation where it wanted to fire Mike Leach and found cause to do so.
I predict next at Friday's news dump Ohio State announces Meyer did everything he needed to do on his end. How do you fire the second-best coach in college football and pay him $38 million if you can't find cause? This isn't like the Texas Tech situation where it wanted to fire Mike Leach and found cause to do so.
Put me in the camp that predicts urban will be fired.
College athletics post-sandusky has undergone a sea change. The me too movement will keep this in the spotlight......donors to OSU (not necessarily to football) will withold money...... the media coverage will overwhelmingly be unfavorable to OSU.
If this story broke 24 hours before PSU he survives.
But OSU will can Meyer, and like recruits stated above, they will hire a solid coach and not skip a beat.
College athletics post-sandusky has undergone a sea change. The me too movement will keep this in the spotlight......donors to OSU (not necessarily to football) will withold money...... the media coverage will overwhelmingly be unfavorable to OSU.
If this story broke 24 hours before PSU he survives.
But OSU will can Meyer, and like recruits stated above, they will hire a solid coach and not skip a beat.
All union construction workers are required to pass drug tests, it is a big problem in the construction industry. Unfortunately there are companies out there that sell things to bypass the drug test findings.
Fine points about at will employment, employee contracts, and union contracts.
At will employment wins every time!
Actually at will employment isn't a law its a doctrine.
One of the goals of a union contract is to protect union members from employment-at-will; however, there are instances where employment-at-will is deemed appropriate, even in a union workplace. Just cause is one instance.
Just cause terminations are easy to justify and are used to terminate union employees all the time.
In most businesses especially public companies employees sign a piece of paper, which includes one paragraph explaining how you're not to use company property for personal use. That includes cell phone, PC's etc. Guess what everyone does. So when a business wants to get rid of someone all a company has to do is take the company phone or PC find your personal stuff on the devicce and out you go.
The company I worked for used this method to terminate high paid employees with employment contracts that they didn't want anymore. Not even the employment contract could save them. Worked everytime!
Even in a unionized work environment, employment-at-will absolutely can co-exist because there are employees deemed "confidential employees" who are excluded from the bargaining unit and, thus, subject to employment-at-will.
Urban might have known, but rumors are he won't be fired. Suspension or immediate reinstatement.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/s...ohio-state-insider-board-of-trustees-meeting/
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/s...ohio-state-insider-board-of-trustees-meeting/
I am confused on this one. Shouldn’t domestic abuse be an issue between the couple and the legal system?
Also, their job is to teach a sport, not bible school.
