Voytik

[geeman2001]

The play calls have not been targeted to his strengths. But (as validation of that), he hasn't executed them well. Poor decisions, poor throws, didn't take care of the ball. Missed some open receivers. And even during the couple rare run options (his forte), he didn't even run, instead tried to force bad passes. Whether this is because the coaches want him to take that pass option first or he feels pressure to show he can complete them, we may not know, but he gave up nice potential gains that he had been taking by the end of last season.

Bottom line, he's not been effective, so we should have no problem using the guy who is. Concern is, we don't know whether Peterman has a very limited ceiling himself. He's gotten a chance to start before and didn't impress. Its the reason he's here now. I think those of us questioning this believe Chad has a higher ceiling than Peterman, IF Chad performs optimally. But if Chad can't even get himself off the floor to approach that ceiling, that's a moot point. We have to go with a guy who has shown better play, not who might have better 'potential'. I only hope Peterman can improve because he has only been OK himself. With Connor gone, the QB is more vital than before. With Kevan Smith quality, we'll get Kevan Smith results.

 

[Pghfan]

The play calls have not been targeted to his strengths. But (as validation of that), he hasn't executed them well. Poor decisions, poor throws, didn't take care of the ball. Missed some open receivers. A couple rare run options, he didn't even run, instead tried to force bad passes. Whether this is because the coaches want him to take that pass option first, we may not know, but he gave up nice potential gains that he had been taking by the end of last season. He's not been effective, so we should have no problem using the guy who is. Concern is, we don't know whether Peterman has a very limited ceiling. I think those of us questioning this believe Chad has a higher ceiling than Peterman, IF Chad performs optimally. But if Chad can't even get himself off the floor to approach that ceiling, that's a moot point. We have to go with a guy who has shown better play, not who might have better 'potential'. I only hope Peterman can improve because he has only been OK himself. With Connor gone, the QB is more vital than before. With Kevan Smith quality, we'll get Kevan Smith results.

Why the shot on Kevan Smith?? I think he actually had a legit D1 arm, is a very good athlete.. Remember this about Smith, he missed his whole senior season and then was redshirted, then thrown into a game against Sparta on the road.. Talent wise, I'd take him over many of our past QBs..

 

[geeman2001]

Why the shot on Kevan Smith?? I think he actually had a legit D1 arm, is a very good athlete.. Remember this about Smith, he missed his whole senior season and then was redshirted, then thrown into a game against Sparta on the road.. Talent wise, I'd take him over many of our past QBs..

Because he mostly stunk despite his advertised 'potential.' If it makes anyone feel better, so did Bostick. Hence the team (lack of) success. I'm sure both are great guys, same with Peterman. But those guys didn't make it, and NP didn't make it with Tennessee. It can't all be because of bad luck.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

I totally agree, Voytik has always seemed to me like a poor man's Tim Tebow. He can run, he's OK as a college QB, just OK, nothing special, but he's not much of a passer. Tino was a better passer.

Ouch!!! I don't know if Chad will ever develop into the type of QB who regularly puts up 200+ yards a game in the air, but to say "Tino was a better passer"...ouch!

 

[Pghfan]

Because he mostly stunk despite his advertised 'potential.' If it makes anyone feel better, so did Bostick. Hence the team (lack of) success. I'm sure both are great guys, same with Peterman. But those guys didn't make it, and NP didn't make it with Tennessee. It can't all be because of bad luck.

We haven't had legit strong QB play since Palko and Rod, and even then, some skeptics can argue that was "strong QB play." Stull had an average senior season. Problem is, we are so used to poor qb play that when we see mediocrity, it comes off as above average play.

I watch a ton of college football and I see QBs making strong throws, reading progressions, hitting second and third options every week. Im not talking Conner Cook's of the world but your typical QBs from mid major (non P5 programs), yet when Nate makes a completion to an open TE on a 15 yard post pattern, stepping up into the pocket and making a completion, we act like he just did the impossible. Watch college football games and pay attention to the QBs. See how many times you will see a QB (who you never heard of) make a 15 yard completion on a post pattern.. You will literally see it all day. We are so starved for adequate QB play that we go bonkers when a pitt qb does this. A deep pattern, qb hits him in stride, as a Pitt fan you'd think this is an anomaly similar to Bigfoot sightings.. Watch an SEC game, or a Big 12 game, or any of the handful of D1 games on tv every Saturday.. QBs at this level can actually throw a deep ball and hit an open WR.. More than once a season. I know, you think I am crazy but I am not, it happens all the time. We, being pitt fans, just don't realize it..

 

[pittpitt]

Maybe I'm wrong but pretty sure I actually remember at the time hearing that Chad was ranked #1 at the Elite 11.

He was ranked #1 at the camp after the first or second day, but he finished the E11 camp 5th.

 

[geeman2001]

We haven't had legit strong QB play since Palko and Rod, and even then, some skeptics can argue that was "strong QB play." Stull had an average senior season. Problem is, we are so used to poor qb play that when we see mediocrity, it comes off as above average play.

I watch a ton of college football and I see QBs making strong throws, reading progressions, hitting second and third options every week. Im not talking Conner Cook's of the world but your typical QBs from mid major (non P5 programs), yet when Nate makes a completion to an open TE on a 15 yard post pattern, stepping up into the pocket and making a completion, we act like he just did the impossible. Watch college football games and pay attention to the QBs. See how many times you will see a QB (who you never heard of) make a 15 yard completion on a post pattern.. You will literally see it all day. We are so starved for adequate QB play that we go bonkers when a pitt qb does this. A deep pattern, qb hits him in stride, as a Pitt fan you'd think this is an anomaly similar to Bigfoot sightings.. Watch an SEC game, or a Big 12 game, or any of the handful of D1 games on tv every Saturday.. QBs at this level can actually throw a deep ball and hit an open WR.. More than once a season. I know, you think I am crazy but I am not, it happens all the time. We, being pitt fans, just don't realize it..

You're not crazy, it's the painful truth. And is been an epic inadequacy of every coach we've had since Walt. Walt didn't bring in jewels either, but at least made them better. Any guy we've had from Wanny onward, and that includes Wanny's version of Palko ... would you take them over John Turman? I wouldnt. And Turman was a gibrone by most standards. It's really a sad statement that says a lot about why Pitt is what it is. A great QB can't win himself, but makes marginal players better. Put Ron Gronkowski on Pitt and does he dominate? Hell no. He likely would be as relevant as Nate Byham was and JP Holtz is now. Largely being wasted by mediocre QBs.

 

[thebadby2]

You're not crazy, it's the painful truth. And is been an epic inadequacy of every coach we've had since Walt. Walt didn't bring in jewels either, but at least made them better. Any guy we've had from Wanny onward, and that includes Wanny's version of Palko ... would you take them over John Turman? I wouldnt. And Turman was a gibrone by most standards. It's really a sad statement that says a lot about why Pitt is what it is. A great QB can't win himself, but makes marginal players better. Put Ron Gronkowski on Pitt and does he dominate? Hell no. He likely would be as relevant as Nate Byham was and JP Holtz is now. Largely being wasted by mediocre QBs.

Walt actually did bring in some QB gems in Rutherford, Palko and Flacco.

 

[Jpripper88]

He actually was ranked #1 at one point in the camp; there are multiple rankings that come out during the Elite 11 "combine".

Ok.

USF was once ranked #2 in 2007. They finished 9-4 and ranked #21.

 

[Pghfan]

Walt actually did bring in some QB gems in Rutherford, Palko and Flacco.

The QB play was a strength under walt. Before Palko and Rod, I really liked Priestley and Turman. First off, Turman's sister was wicked hot, that in itself is a plus. Priestley and Turman were good college QBs.. Once Walt left, it really has been a struggle at the QB spot. Palko was good but regressed under Cavanaugh and well, we all know about Tino and Stull. LIke I said before about Stull's senior year, it was decent but looks ten times better due to what pitt fans expect from their qb.

 

[Consultant Panther]

The QB play was a strength under walt. Before Palko and Rod, I really liked Priestley and Turman. First off, Turman's sister was wicked hot, that in itself is a plus. Priestley and Turman were good college QBs.. Once Walt left, it really has been a struggle at the QB spot. Palko was good but regressed under Cavanaugh and well, we all know about Tino and Stull. LIke I said before about Stull's senior year, it was decent but looks ten times better due to what pitt fans expect from their qb.

Add Gonzalez to that list, he had a great season in Walt's first year.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Voytik made a mistake staying with Pitt when Graham left and PC was hired. He is not a pro style QB and should be in a system better designed for his talents.

 

[Pghfan]

Voytik made a mistake staying with Pitt when Graham left and PC was hired. He is not a pro style QB and should be in a system better designed for his talents.

Wait a sec, people were saying he flourished last year under PC's system, now it was a mistake.. Voytik apologists need to make up their mind and stick with one story..

 

[PITTLAW]

You're not crazy, it's the painful truth. And is been an epic inadequacy of every coach we've had since Walt. Walt didn't bring in jewels either, but at least made them better. Any guy we've had from Wanny onward, and that includes Wanny's version of Palko ... would you take them over John Turman? I wouldnt. And Turman was a gibrone by most standards. It's really a sad statement that says a lot about why Pitt is what it is. A great QB can't win himself, but makes marginal players better. Put Ron Gronkowski on Pitt and does he dominate? Hell no. He likely would be as relevant as Nate Byham was and JP Holtz is now. Largely being wasted by mediocre QBs.

Funny thing about Walt is his best recruit at the QB position he failed to recognize or play. Ask the Baltimore Ravens about Joe Flacco or his banker about his talent! Hail to Pitt!

 

[Pghfan]

Funny thing about Walt is his best recruit at the QB position he failed to recognize or play. Ask the Baltimore Ravens about Joe Flacco or his banker about his talent! Hail to Pitt!

OH, this is a new argument, one I've never seen discussed before. Interesting. Hey, while we are talking about brand new subjects, what is your thoughts on an on campus stadium?

 

[Pittx9]

Funny thing about Walt is his best recruit at the QB position he failed to recognize or play. Ask the Baltimore Ravens about Joe Flacco or his banker about his talent! Hail to Pitt!

Let's be honest here. Ask anyone on the staff back then. Flacco just didn't grasp it at the time. I would bet my life if Flacco is the starter in '04 we don't go to the Fiesta Bowl. (Insert joke about Big East here I know.)
I don't think people gave Palko enough credit. If Walt would've stayed, he would've been one of the best qb's in the country. There was a lot of buzz around him going into 2005. He just didn't do as well under Wanny/Cav that year. He did rebound to have a pretty solid '06 season though.
I'll go to my grave defending the decision. No question Flacco is a great NFL qb, but at the time you can only sacrifice prepping these kid's futures to a certain point. Palko was clearly better at the time and deserved to start hands down.
Again, not disagreeing with anything you said, Flacco obviously has a ton of talent. Just happened to be a bad situation for him. He knew how good he could be, Walt saw how suited Tyler was for his offense and knew he gave us the best chance to win at the time. Now if Flacco would've stayed, he could've been a hell of a qb under Wanny.
Is it just me though, or does this stuff happen all the time at Pitt? When Rashad Jennings was here, who really thought he ever had a chance at the NFL?

 

[ncyajleel]

What I have noticed is Peterman has better pocket awareness and takes less yardage for loss. He hangs in the pocket, steps up or to the side of the rush and delivers the ball. At that point, Chad usually either gets sacked or runs. One is a pocket passer, the other is a pocket runner.

 

[PITTLAW]

OH, this is a new argument, one I've never seen discussed before. Interesting. Hey, while we are talking about brand new subjects, what is your thoughts on an on campus stadium?

Not really an argument, just a factual statement. It is what it is. As for an on campus stadium, I obviously favor the concept. Sadly, it will never happen for Pitt--that ship sailed when Pitt Stadium was torn down and the Pete was constructed on its bones. Hail to Pitt!

 

[geeman2001]

Wait a sec, people were saying he flourished last year under PC's system, now it was a mistake.. Voytik apologists need to make up their mind and stick with one story..

My story has always been that he finished the season effectively, and if that could be transposed to this season, I think he's the better QB for our needs because he became a legit multiple threat by then, and Pitt will need that now more than ever with Connor out. Our running game looks like it is going to be a shadow of what was expected with Connor. Chad can do things with his legs to help compensate, and if he could also be effective in the air, we would have a chance.

However, Chad hasn't played anything like he did at the end of last season, so Pitt absolutely needs to go with the guy who plays better. Right now its Peterman for sure.

Proponents for Peterman have also engaged in the hyperbole that Chad backers are accused of. Many posts I've read, they believe Peterman had an outstanding game on Sat and expect him to improve immensely. If those things were true I'd agree. Regarding last Sat, I don't discount the win -- no Pitt fan ever should, they occur so rarely -- but it was just an ok performance. Nothing special. Based on his past, washing out at Tennessee, I don't happen to share the optimism for major improvement. I think we'll be in be in big trouble if our ga me plan is a bland pro set with an immobile pocket passer, shaky OTs, shaky center, shaky freshman tailbacks, a WR facing constant double coverage, and little else. It won't be enough to win, at least not very often. But clearly that's even more true with Chad so far as well.

It's a dilemma for sure, and disappointing, since offense was the one area fans were somewhat confident. Duz is talking bravely but gotta be cursing the gods somewhat.

 

[heybandguy]

I don't see Chad as being treated badly in this case. I felt going into the season, and even after the YSU game he gave Pitt the best chance to win. Some of that was based on a very limited idea of what Peterman was capable of. HCPN and Chaney are taking steps to make sure the best team is on the field to win the game. Chad has proved to be a great student at Pitt, and he demonstrated some things last year that would classify him IMHO as a better than average starting QB. This coaching staff doesn't seem complacent with just better than average, and CV needs to make improvements in his overall game to earn playing time. Do I feel bad for Chad as a human being? Yes. But I also acknowledge this consistent evaluation and competition that the team is engaged in could result in improved play (and hopefully results) on the field.

 

[thebadby2]

The QB play was a strength under walt. Before Palko and Rod, I really liked Priestley and Turman. First off, Turman's sister was wicked hot, that in itself is a plus. Priestley and Turman were good college QBs.. Once Walt left, it really has been a struggle at the QB spot. Palko was good but regressed under Cavanaugh and well, we all know about Tino and Stull. LIke I said before about Stull's senior year, it was decent but looks ten times better due to what pitt fans expect from their qb.

Believe me, I agree with your general thoughts on the QB subject. It is baffling that NONE of our coaches since Walt, and none before him going back to VanPelt, have managed to adequately address the most important position on the field. It';s time to change that. We need a QB that is better than serviceable--it's imperative. And to do so, I think the new staff needs to bring in several QBs to compete. Tats what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan, that's what Brian Kelly has tried to do everywhere he goes, etc.

Unless you develop; a quality starter and quality depth at the position, you get what VT had in the OSU game after Brewer went down.

 

[Pghfan]

My story has always been that he finished the season effectively, and if that could be transposed to this season, I think he's the better QB for our needs because he became a legit multiple threat by then, and Pitt will need that now more than ever with Connor out. Our running game looks like it is going to be a shadow of what was expected with Connor. Chad can do things with his legs to help compensate, and if he could also be effective in the air, we would have a chance.

However, Chad hasn't played anything like he did at the end of last season, so Pitt absolutely needs to go with the guy who plays better. Right now its Peterman for sure.

Proponents for Peterman have also engaged in the hyperbole that Chad backers are accused of. Many posts I've read, they believe Peterman had an outstanding game on Sat and expect him to improve immensely. If those things were true I'd agree. Regarding last Sat, I don't discount the win -- no Pitt fan ever should, they occur so rarely -- but it was just an ok performance. Nothing special. Based on his past, washing out at Tennessee, I don't happen to share the optimism for major improvement. I think we'll be in be in big trouble if our ga me plan is a bland pro set with an immobile pocket passer, shaky OTs, shaky center, shaky freshman tailbacks, a WR facing constant double coverage, and little else. It won't be enough to win, at least not very often. But clearly that's even more true with Chad so far as well.

It's a dilemma for sure, and disappointing, since offense was the one area fans were somewhat confident. Duz is talking bravely but gotta be cursing the gods somewhat.

Geeman, nates running ability is under rated. Dude can run, showed it against Akron. Not to the point of running read options but let's face it, that's a garbage play regardless and was getting thrown on the scrap heap by Chaney anyways. I don't see Nate as a savior, I love the idea of a platoon system.

 

[Pittx9]

Not only did Peterman show he has at least some legs, but that was a big run. I'm talking not just in distance, but it was a big play for us. How many times have we seen a Pitt qb through the years in that situation try and force a bad throw.
At the start of the Akron game I didn't like the 2 qb system, as they took Chad out before he even threw an incomplete pass. Now, I think it could be a strength. We could keep doing things this way, or if we pick a starter we have an experienced backup ready at a moment's notice.
I think we're all getting a little carried away with depth concerns here. Both of these guys can play and are great leaders. I even think down the road DiNucci was a diamond in the rough find. I trust Narduzzi knows what he is doing and I think the days are gone of us not having a backup qb that can see over the center or throw more than 5 yards.
Overall, I think we're in good shape, just gotta take care of what is in front of us. The other thing good about this is it shows the new staff will play the hot hand. I liked Wanny more than most here probably did, but a definite knock on him was the way he handled the lineups. Under Narduzzi, if you show you can make plays, you're gonna get a chance to see the field.

 

[geeman2001]

Geeman, nates running ability is under rated. Dude can run, showed it against Akron. Not to the point of running read options but let's face it, that's a garbage play regardless and was getting thrown on the scrap heap by Chaney anyways. I don't see Nate as a savior, I love the idea of a platoon system.

The scrambles on sat were key and give reason to hope. With one and possibly two brand new guys at tackle (Biz' track record tells us we should brace for a lot more O'Neill), he's gonna need to be mobile.

 

[Pitt79]

Ouch!!! I don't know if Chad will ever develop into the type of QB who regularly puts up 200+ yards a game in the air, but to say "Tino was a better passer"...ouch!

He was, clearly, he actually ranks very high on Pitt's career passing stats, and he is playing pro football in a pass happy league, CFL sure, but still the 2nd best pro football league in the world

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

You could tell Chad was scrambled the first ysu series. Everything is moving too fast for him right now.

 

[MajorMajors]

Funny thing about Walt is his best recruit at the QB position he failed to recognize or play. Ask the Baltimore Ravens about Joe Flacco or his banker about his talent! Hail to Pitt!

So Walt failed to "recognize" Flacco's talent? Wonder whose idea it was to give Flacco a scholarship to attend Pitt? And Flacco would have been great at Pitt - under Walt's coaching - had he stayed.

You read some amazing stuff on these boards.

Go Pitt.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

He was, clearly, he actually ranks very high on Pitt's career passing stats, and he is playing pro football in a pass happy league, CFL sure, but still the 2nd best pro football league in the world

Let's not kid ourselves. We Pitt fans know Stats can lie. And they do when it comes to Tino. Goodness, I wish it weren't the case. If we are going to go just on his stats, we should look at look at all of his stats... including the # of TDs and and INTs thrown in a season. The # of times he was sacked in a season. His completion % for passes thrown more than 7 yards. The # of games his team won and lost in a season. The # of bowl games his team won. The number of 4th quarter come from behind wins he lead his team to in 3 years as a starter (Hint: the answer is below 1).

In 2010 (with Baldwin, Shanahan and Street on the team) Tino had just 16 TDs and 9 INTs

2011 he played even worse: He was sacked 64 times (most in the Nation). And while the O-Line was partly to blame, Tino certainly was responsible for his share of them.

What Athlon Sports wrote about Tino/Pitt that year:

"Offensive Weakness: Quarterback Tino Sunseri had a disappointing junior year, throwing 11 picks to only 10 touchdowns and often held the ball too long in the pocket."

Under Tino, the offense scored a whopping 6 points in the BBVA Compass Bowl game that season, t-the lowest amount of points scored by a team for that bowl.

2012 was by far his best year statistically, but man did he do a poor job against some bad teams. His offense scored 17 in a loss to Youngstown State, only 13 in a loss to Syracuse, and only 10 in a blowout loss to Cincinnati.

Pitt returned to the BBVA Compass Bowl,again where the offense under him could only muster up 17 points in yet another loss.

 

[PITTLAW]

So Walt failed to "recognize" Flacco's talent? Wonder whose idea it was to give Flacco a scholarship to attend Pitt? And Flacco would have been great at Pitt - under Walt's coaching - had he stayed.

You read some amazing stuff on these boards.

Go Pitt.

Joe never played under Walt...so what good did it do to recruit him? Flacco would have transferred whether Walt stayed or left, as we know from watching what transpired. I know everyone loved Palko...but Luke was also probably better than him as well. Walt may have run a good offense, but he played head games with his QB's and did not get the level of play from them that they were capable of delivering. Hail to Pitt!

 

[thebadby2]

Funny thing about Walt is his best recruit at the QB position he failed to recognize or play. Ask the Baltimore Ravens about Joe Flacco or his banker about his talent! Hail to Pitt!

Flacco redshirted as a freshman and was a year behind Palko. Palko was the starter during Flacco's RS freshman season and had one of the better years at QB in modern Pitt history. We beat ND and ended up going to the FIesta Bowl. That was Walt's last year at Pitt.

How the hell can you blame him for playing Palko that year?

Then of course Wanny and the brilliant Matt Cavanaugh came to town and Palko was never the same. Flacco took off after that RS freshman year. His father said publicly that "we felt misled by Wannstedt." I don't recall him saying anything like that about WLAT, in fact, Flacco went to Pitt because of WLAT's prowess as a QB guru.

 

[PITTLAW]

Flacco redshirted as a freshman and was a year behind Palko. Palko was the starter during Flacco's RS freshman season and had one of the better years at QB in modern Pitt history. We beat ND and ended up going to the FIesta Bowl. That was Walt's last year at Pitt.

How the hell can you blame him for playing Palko that year?

Then of course Wanny and the brilliant Matt Cavanaugh came to town and Palko was never the same. Flacco took off after that RS freshman year. His father said publicly that "we felt misled by Wannstedt." I don't recall him saying anything like that about WLAT, in fact, Flacco went to Pitt because of WLAT's prowess as a QB guru.

The premise of the original post was the irony of Walt's best QB recruit never playing for him at Pitt. Regardless of how you want to cast it or spin it...happens to be a factual statement. Palko had a pretty good year the season leading up to the Fiesta Bowl slaughter...but hey, maybe Flacco would have been even better? We will never know. Kind of like we will never know if Voytik would have played better than Peterman in the second half against Akron...as we never got a chance to see. Hail to Pitt!

 

[thebadby2]

Joe never played under Walt...so what good did it do to recruit him? Flacco would have transferred whether Walt stayed or left, as we know from watching what transpired. I know everyone loved Palko...but Luke was also probably better than him as well. Walt may have run a good offense, but he played head games with his QB's and did not get the level of play from them that they were capable of delivering. Hail to Pitt!

he played head games with his QB's and did not get the level of play from them that they were capable of delivering.

Yet under WLAT we saw the best QB play that we have seen at Pitt since the Alex VanPelt days, and it isn't even close. Palko took a nosedive under Wanny/Cav and never returned to his 2004 level. Stull had a decent senior year, as did the whole offense with Cignetti calling the O, but he was hardly a world beater--he only threw for 2600 yards.

 

[PITTLAW]

he played head games with his QB's and did not get the level of play from them that they were capable of delivering.

Yet under WLAT we saw the best QB play that we have seen at Pitt since the Alex VanPelt days, and it isn't even close. Palko took a nosedive under Wanny/Cav and never returned to his 2004 level. Stull had a decent senior year, as did the whole offense with Cignetti calling the O, but he was hardly a world beater--he only threw for 2600 yards.

Well when your offense is built around throwing the ball, as opposed to running it, the passing stats are always going to be better--even with a bad QB. Hail to Pitt!

 

[vegasgreed]

What does Walt, Flacco or any other previous player have to do with this thread? Nothing.

For some of the knuckleheads in this thread, let me let you in on a little secret, Pat Narduzzi is trying to win football games. Plain and simple. Period.

 

[thebadby2]

What does Walt, Flacco or any other previous player have to do with this thread? Nothing.

For some of the knuckleheads in this thread, let me let you in on a little secret, Pat Narduzzi is trying to win football games. Plain and simple. Period.

You mean like every other football coach on earth? Thanks for that.