Whatever happened to the Hamlin/Ford package deal?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lewis, Donald, Conner, Street + others I don't have the list so it kinda works itself out over time. Wasn't one of our lineman that recently went to the NFL a 2 or 3 star? How about the list of 4 star busts lots of them too!

A lot of recruit performance is dependent on how proficient the coaching staff is and how they relate and communicate with players.

HCNarduzzi seems to have good communication and player development skills and makes that a priority for his staff.

Ding, ding, ding. There it is. The obligatory "stars dont matter" response.

We. Know. Some. 2. Star. Players. End. Up. Being. Good. We. Know. We. Know.

But the list of fails is much longer.

Every study ever on the subject has shown that star ratings, on the average, directly correlate to individual and team success. The data is out there. The data knows for every Conner or Dion Lewis, there are 10 guys who totally suck.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Ding, ding, ding. There it is. The obligatory "stars dont matter" response.

We. Know. Some. 2. Star. Players. End. Up. Being. Good. We. Know. We. Know.

But the list of fails is much longer.

Every study ever on the subject has shown that star ratings, on the average, directly correlate to individual and team success. The data is out there. The data knows for every Conner or Dion Lewis, there are 10 guys who totally suck.

Stars matter but other factors come into play!
When you have time put together the list of PITT 4 and 5 star flamouts.
Obviously the recruit has to have ability so it all comes down to selecting recruits who fit the U's football system, relate to the coaching staff, have good work ethic/character and upside potential.
I don't think recruiting by the numbers ( star rating) isn't the end all for developing winning football programs.
I also believe if some of previous recruiting classes remained intact and were coached by other good staffs instead of the PITT one or two years and out staffs they would have performed well.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I'm going to start judging classes by how many stick three years later. stars and rankings are all probably going to be similar no matter who the coach is. what kills us is three quarters of the class leaving two years later. If 2 years from now for 75% of last year's class is still on the roster it is a great improvement

No disagreement with that.

 

[Piranha]

I hate to admit you are right, but you are. Our class so far is nothing special. Hope it picks up at the end and next year see better results

Hendrix, Clark, Whitehead, Hall, Flowers, Pugh, Peterman were all rated 4 stars and PN has landed them in 1 years time. You guys are clueless.

 

[TD_6082]

Nope, just someone who looks at results versus hype.

The recruiting this far is pretty much landing the same kind of kids Pitt usually gets.
And that's okay..: talent has not been our problem for years .

Talent has absolutely been a problem since the Gottfried era. Did you see the ND, UNC, or Miami games this year?

 

[drunkinoakland]

Name

Name me all these PC 2 star recruits that have been such dead weight around the throat of Pitt Football. I'll give ya a few 4 Star, Deshayne Rippy & Rushel Shell, that were just a huge waste of time & effort. This class(which I am happy with) looks almost identical to a PC class.
I agree w/ those of you that prefer Coach Duzz outgoing personality to that of PC's backword disposition. But , like 'ole Slippin Jimmy' , just being a fast talker does not necessarily mean a whole lot. Be careful that you do not get all caught up in fluff over substance. And let's not alter the past to fit a narrative that somehow PC was so awful to Pitt Football.

H2 PITT & JC !!!

Trahan, Poker, Reese, Howard, edwards, roberts, baker, green, Coles, need me to continue?

The overall class rating might be similar, but now we are getting guys with P5 offers, as opposed to Chryst when we were beating out the Ivy, Patriot, Mac, and maybe an Indiana or Wake Forrest.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Talent has absolutely been a problem since the Gottfried era. Did you see the ND, UNC, or Miami games this year?

I didn't see a talent disparity.
I saw a team unfocused and sleepwalking too much of the first half .
Second halves demonstrated no big gap in talent .

 

[TD_6082]

Lol. The second halves demonstrated a lack of focus by the opponents that took their foot off the gas.

 

[bobfree]

If you take into account the transfers....Clark, hendri

I didn't see a talent disparity.
I saw a team unfocused and sleepwalking too much of the first half .
Second halves demonstrated no big gap in talent .

We were certainly less talented than ND and UNC. I would agree with your assessment regarding Miami.

 

[thebadby2]

Trahan, Poker, Reese, Howard, edwards, roberts, baker, green, Coles, need me to continue?

The overall class rating might be similar, but now we are getting guys with P5 offers, as opposed to Chryst when we were beating out the Ivy, Patriot, Mac, and maybe an Indiana or Wake Forrest.

That just isn't true. The offer sheets and our recruiting class ranking are very similar to a PC class. It's baffling that some posters just can't seem to acknowledge that--and these tend to be the same posters who were all gushy about PC's ability to spot the diamonds in the rough, bring in the kids the other guys overlooked, etc etc. Now those same posters are gushing about how much better our recruiting has been under Dooz, even though it;'s been almost identical. Lots of rationalization, like the statement that even though the star ratings are about the same as they were under PC, Doozi's 2-3 stars have better offer sheets. Except they actually don't. It's like some kind of weird cognitive dissonance.Plenty of kids in this group with MAC/mid-major-heavy offer sheets. We were the best offer on the sheet for the majority of our commits. With our latest commits the class just jumped all the way up to # 9 in our league and #47 in the country. Before that we were 61st. For some perspective, there are 65 Power 5 programs in the entire country, meaning we are ranked ahead of only 18 P5 schools.

Maybe this class will be outstanding, maybe it will be pedestrian, maybe it will be subpar, but regardless of how it works out in the end, we need to start to bring in better players and more athletes, Narduzzi would tell you that himself (as he did following the UNC game), and only a fool would disagree with that. There is certainly more energy and buzz surrounding recruiting than there ever was under PC, and the staff appears to be working harder at it, but so far the results are about the same. I think Duzzi is getting his on the job education on how difficult it has become to recruit to Pitt these days. This program has been broken for a long time, and it needs to re-establish some consistency and success to regain credibility with the better players and their families/coaches. My gut feeling is that Narduzzi will pick up some recruiting momentum with time and continued success, he's relentlessly competitive, and is the kind of coach kids want to play for--fiery, passionate, and fully engaged. Success on the field will beget success on the recruiting trail, and it will take more than one 8-4 season to make that happen.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

If you take into account the transfers....Clark, hendri



We were certainly less talented than ND and UNC. I would agree with your assessment regarding Miami.

I'll give you the talent disparity against ND.

UNC was pretty even. The problem was a lack of focus by Amara on the long TD to Switzer where he assumed the UNC QB was going down with a PITT defender holding onto his face mask, letting Switzer run right by him. The second major fault in that game belongs to Chaney, who decided to get pissy when Ollison told him to keep feeding him the ball. The third, and final back breaker was the unfortunate fumble by Ford.

The stats indicate that these two teams were very evenly matched: ESPN Box Score

Sometimes the other team just catches some breaks. UNC certainly had its fair share of good breaks in that game.

 

[drunkinoakland]

That just isn't true. The offer sheets and our recruiting class ranking are very similar to a PC class. It's baffling that some posters just can't seem to acknowledge that--and these tend to be the same posters who were all gushy about PC's ability to spot the diamonds in the rough, bring in the kids the other guys overlooked, etc etc. Now those same posters are gushing about how much better our recruiting has been under Dooz, even though it;'s been almost identical. Lots of rationalization, like the statement that even though the star ratings are about the same as they were under PC, Doozi's 2-3 stars have better offer sheets. Except they actually don't. It's like some kind of weird cognitive dissonance.Plenty of kids in this group with MAC/mid-major-heavy offer sheets. We were the best offer on the sheet for the majority of our commits. With our latest commits the class just jumped all the way up to # 9 in our league and #47 in the country. Before that we were 61st. For some perspective, there are 65 Power 5 programs in the entire country, meaning we are ranked ahead of only 18 P5 schools.

Maybe this class will be outstanding, maybe it will be pedestrian, maybe it will be subpar, but regardless of how it works out in the end, we need to start to bring in better players and more athletes, Narduzzi would tell you that himself (as he did following the UNC game), and only a fool would disagree with that. There is certainly more energy and buzz surrounding recruiting than there ever was under PC, and the staff appears to be working harder at it, but so far the results are about the same. I think Duzzi is getting his on the job education on how difficult it has become to recruit to Pitt these days. This program has been broken for a long time, and it needs to re-establish some consistency and success to regain credibility with the better players and their families/coaches. My gut feeling is that Narduzzi will pick up some recruiting momentum with time and continued success, he's relentlessly competitive, and is the kind of coach kids want to play for--fiery, passionate, and fully engaged. Success on the field will beget success on the recruiting trail, and it will take more than one 8-4 season to make that happen.

Look at Pugh, Pine, Gilbert, and Campbell and recognize that usually we were getting guys with far less offers under PC. Sure, we got Boyd and Dojo and Bookser and others (all great gets) but when you got down to the bottom there were plenty of guys we beat only Cuse or MAC schools for. This class is far deeper and hardly any guys have offer sheets devoid of Power 5 players.

Look I can see an argument for what you are saying, I just think that the bottom ends of those PC classes had less P5 offers and if either of us had time to check it, the facts would bear thst out.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Is it February already?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

With our latest commits the class just jumped all the way up to # 9 in our league and #47 in the country. Before that we were 61st. For some perspective, there are 65 Power 5 programs in the entire country, meaning we are ranked ahead of only 18 P5 schools..

Pitt is 37th if you sort by average star rank, a far better measure. 7th in the ACC but almost identical to the teams 2 spots ahead (Lou and Duke).

There are 4 big dogs in ACC recruiting (FSU, Clem, Miami, UNC). Those schools have been getting SEC-like classes. After that delineation, Pitt is right there.

This class is OK, not great. But its much stronger than Chryst's classes of MAC players.

 

[bobfree]

Bump

 

[Large Panther]

Talent has absolutely been a problem since the Gottfried era. Did you see the ND, UNC, or Miami games this year?

Seems to be picking up.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I'll give you the talent disparity against ND.

UNC was pretty even. The problem was a lack of focus by Amara on the long TD to Switzer where he assumed the UNC QB was going down with a PITT defender holding onto his face mask, letting Switzer run right by him. The second major fault in that game belongs to Chaney, who decided to get pissy when Ollison told him to keep feeding him the ball. The third, and final back breaker was the unfortunate fumble by Ford.

The stats indicate that these two teams were very evenly matched: ESPN Box Score

Sometimes the other team just catches some breaks. UNC certainly had its fair share of good breaks in that game.

And even our recent history against ND show it's not.
What, it's like 5-4 in ND's favor the past 9 outings. I mean, some pedestrian Pitt teams beat or should have beaten ND in most of those contests.

the ND game looks back because Kelly ate Narduzzi's lunch- his offense exploiting our weaknesses caused by our aggressive scheme.

 

[Teh Teh]

Oh yes... one receiver blew past our weak dB a few times. Outside the ND had 200 total yards alllll game. Narduzzis defense played great with the talent that was there all year. He made stars out of Price and allowed whitehead to flourish.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Oh yes... one receiver blew past our weak dB a few times. Outside the ND had 200 total yards alllll game. Narduzzis defense played great with the talent that was there all year. He made stars out of Price and allowed whitehead to flourish.

One all-American receiver blew past our corner who didn't have safety help.

Fuller had THREE touchdowns .
Maybe relying on our weak corners to man up with him is the flaw I'm talking about ?

 

[VAPITTALUM]

One all-American receiver blew past our corner who didn't have safety help.

Fuller had THREE touchdowns .
Maybe relying on our weak corners to man up with him is the flaw I'm talking about ?

Very good point on the safety help. One of the keys in looking for next year is better recognition from the Safety when the CB gets burned. There were far too many instances of the WR getting behind the Safety. UNC and ND were both good examples.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Very good point on the safety help. One of the keys in looking for next year is better recognition from the Safety when the CB gets burned. There were far too many instances of the WR getting behind the Safety. UNC and ND were both good examples.

Or actually scheme to have safety help on big time receivers from the jump?

You can't rely on a safety who is 7 yards away to close in the open field .

 

[vegasgreed]

Leave it up to to souf to turn a big recruiting win day into "our coaching sucked in the ND game".

 

[UPitt '89]

Leave it up to to souf to turn a big recruiting win day into "our coaching sucked in the ND game".

Exactly. Souf is a permanent downer.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Exactly. Souf is a permanent downer.

You as a permanent coach apologist fanboy- stated a false premise that talent has her a problem.
I countered with evidence that wasn't the case .

 

[GT74]

I didn't see a talent disparity.
I saw a team unfocused and sleepwalking too much of the first half .
Second halves demonstrated no big gap in talent .

Souf, you say there isn't a 'talent disparity' with the big boys mentioned, yet, in a later post, said WRs blew past our 'weak corners'. Where's the talent then? Also, you question the scheme of a coach who had MSU's defense in the top 5 for five years in a row before coming here? So, are you saying the talent is there, but coaching isn't? I respect what you say, but question your reasoning. IMO, Pitt's talent is picking up, but not in the ballpark of a ND yet, but most programs don't recruit talent like ND or the other top programs. I'm sure Pitt's goal is to get there.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

SOS (same ole Souf)- or lives or 4life of geeman or liammcpoyle or baron von dingdong or)

 

[UPitt '89]

You as a permanent coach apologist fanboy- stated a false premise that talent has her a problem.
I countered with evidence that wasn't the case .

Permanent coach fanboy?

Nobody on this site lobbied harder to fire Wannstedt than me. And nobody started it earlier.

And i was a huge Chryst critic as well.

As for Narduzzi. .. yeah, guilty as charged. I'm all in

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

SOS (same ole Souf)- or lives or 4life of geeman or liammcpoyle or baron von dingdong or)

Never geeman or the baron name.
Was Liam for awhile on scout when they banned souf.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Souf, you say there isn't a 'talent disparity' with the big boys mentioned, yet, in a later post, said WRs blew past our 'weak corners'. Where's the talent then? Also, you question the scheme of a coach who had MSU's defense in the top 5 for five years in a row before coming here? So, are you saying the talent is there, but coaching isn't? I respect what you say, but question your reasoning. IMO, Pitt's talent is picking up, but not in the ballpark of a ND yet, but most programs don't recruit talent like ND or the other top programs. I'm sure Pitt's goal is to get there.

Yes, relying on man coverage is bound to fail.
Even in the NFL against top cover corners they get beat with no safety help.

I like duzz and his philosophy... I'm saying that matchup was exploited and he didn't adjust.
He's not flawless.

Against really good offenses it fails on occasion , like the Baylor bowl game...even with good defensive talent like msu had.

With less talent and worse coaching we have either beat notre dame or gave them all they can handle ... Ie losing on a missed field goal. So , no... There isn't some big talent disparity on the field .

 

[vegasgreed]

Souf, your are clueless, as usual. This years ND team backups(they were down like 9 starters) were more talented than our team this year. It was a big gap in talent. The actual proof was on the field. We didn't lose the game because of PN's poor defensive philosophy. We lost the game because the better team won that day.

PN didn't fall off the boat yesterday, reason he's recruiting db's this year so aggressively is that he knows how badly we need an upgrade at that position. We were fortunate to win 8 games this year with our CB's, DL and LBers.

 

[Piranha]

ND has a roster filled with future NFL players. Only a moron would think Pitt had similar talent to them.

 

[chethejet]

Pitt may have been able to compete with a healthy DT or two. But ND exploited that big time and Pitt simply couldn't stop the run. As to the talent gap, ND had better talent but the matchups were heavily favored in ND's favor. Pitt could run on the Irish but the OC went away from the run. Not sorry he is gone but he did a good job overall with what he had to work with. Take away the NC QB and Pitt is in the hunt with NC. But NC was better. Miami was a bad day at the office. Nothing more.

 

[OriginalEther]

It's not an either/or situation.
Notre Dame did have the better team.
But if there was one game where Narduzzi got outcoached, it was that one.

 

[Pitt is #1]

Speaking of package deals! Any chance we get Alexander and he gets Dwumfor to flip with him?

 

[vegasgreed]

when did these 2 become a package deal? one went to psu, one went to nebraska. now one of them is back on the market.

Speaking of package deals! Any chance we get Alexander and he gets Dwumfor to flip with him?

 

[Pitt is #1]

when did these 2 become a package deal? one went to psu, one went to nebraska. now one of them is back on the market.

They play on the same high school team.
Vuk hinted to a player committed elsewhere now having Pitt interest.

 

[GT74]

Yes, relying on man coverage is bound to fail.
Even in the NFL against top cover corners they get beat with no safety help.

I like duzz and his philosophy... I'm saying that matchup was exploited and he didn't adjust.
He's not flawless.

Against really good offenses it fails on occasion , like the Baylor bowl game...even with good defensive talent like msu had.

With less talent and worse coaching we have either beat notre dame or gave them all they can handle ... Ie losing on a missed field goal. So , no... There isn't some big talent disparity on the field .

Again Souf, don't understand your reasoning. You like his philosophy, but 'relying on man coverage is bound to fail'. Quizzical statement. Yes, all corners get beat, even in the NFL with no safety help. Pick your poison, safeties more help on run or more help on pass. Also, PN does go to some zone when needed. But, to say he doesn't adjust is crazy. Look at the second halves of games this year. It was obvious that he and the staff adjusted quite a bit. The results back that. Some teams are just so good and talented, that no defense works, and it happens to Pitt too. The bottom line, though, is whether the defense does what it can do against the offense, and gives the team a chance to win. Pitt won 8 this year, not a bad start to the Narduzzi era.

 

[pittzap]

Again Souf, don't understand your reasoning. You like his philosophy, but 'relying on man coverage is bound to fail'. Quizzical statement. Yes, all corners get beat, even in the NFL with no safety help. Pick your poison, safeties more help on run or more help on pass. Also, PN does go to some zone when needed. But, to say he doesn't adjust is crazy. Look at the second halves of games this year. It was obvious that he and the staff adjusted quite a bit. The results back that. Some teams are just so good and talented, that no defense works, and it happens to Pitt too. The bottom line, though, is whether the defense does what it can do against the offense, and gives the team a chance to win. Pitt won 8 this year, not a bad start to the Narduzzi era.

ND's RB (Adams, I think) liked us in the second half when the safeties gave help on the deep ball. ND is good and they not only better than us that game, but all year.

 

[drunkinoakland]

Yes, relying on man coverage is bound to fail.
Even in the NFL against top cover corners they get beat with no safety help.

I like duzz and his philosophy... I'm saying that matchup was exploited and he didn't adjust.
He's not flawless.

Against really good offenses it fails on occasion , like the Baylor bowl game...even with good defensive talent like msu had.

With less talent and worse coaching we have either beat notre dame or gave them all they can handle ... Ie losing on a missed field goal. So , no... There isn't some big talent disparity on the field .

Could those Notre Dame teams have been worse too, or just played a bad game one day?

I mean certainly you don't believe a team plays the exact same every week? If Alabama from week 7 played Alabama from week 8 you are saying it'd be a never ending tie?

 

[Teh Teh]

The dumbness on this thread is crazy. Yeah ND beat us so what we crushed them s year ago back when we had the better tslent??? And I guess ysu haf better talent than us a few years ago?
If you're going to judge a year based on a team you loat to then only one team a year has 'good talent'.