Where's our resident Goaltender guru?

[PhPanther1]

True but maybe a little light in helping his team go deep in the play-offs against teams the Pens should have beaten. Except for 2009 of course which is a long time ago and a long wait for Pens fans!

And they have hung him out to dry in the playoffs as well. I'm not saying he's Patrick Roy, but to think we're dumping him because the 2nd coming of Brodeur has played 30 games in the NHL is a little crazy if you ask me.

 

[Old School1]

And they have hung him out to dry in the playoffs as well. I'm not saying he's Patrick Roy, but to think we're dumping him because the 2nd coming of Brodeur has played 30 games in the NHL is a little crazy if you ask me.

I never suggested dumping him.
I suggested the PENS figure out a way to keep both Murray and Fluery.
Who knows where Murray is heading but so far he looks like he might be able to play goalie in the NHL when he grows up and soon Fluery will be on the downside of things.

 

[steel_curtain]

And they have hung him out to dry in the playoffs as well. I'm not saying he's Patrick Roy, but to think we're dumping him because the 2nd coming of Brodeur has played 30 games in the NHL is a little crazy if you ask me.

Playoffs

Matt Murray- 2.22 Goals against, 93% save percentage
Fleury- 3.03 Goals against, 88% save percentage

Regular Season

Matt Murray- 2.00 Goals against, 93% even save percentage, no rounding
Fluery- 2.29 Goals against, 92.1% save percentage

-The only argument you have against Murray is experience, because he outplayed Fleury this year at a difference of 5.4 million dollars.

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

I'm not sure who the "resident Goaltender guru" that you speak of is, but I'd like to make some comments ......

1) What a TERRIFIC series with Tampa Bay and a GREAT Game 7 for the Pens !

2) My brief analysis of the goals scored in Game 7 from a goalie standpoint .....

PENS GOAL #1 - Rust takes a shot from the middle of the ice about the top of the circles ..... Vasilevskiy is in good position at the top of the crease and is beaten with a GREAT shot over his glove side ..... it was a near perfect shot which made the save difficult but Vasilevskiy was in good position and you hope he makes the save .... not a terrible goal but I think he would like to have that one back.

LIGHTNING GOAL #1 - Drouin drives down the right wing and at the top of the circle cuts across the middle and all the way into the high, inner part of the left circle where he takes a shot which beats Murray to the far post ..... Murray was in good position when Drouin got to the top of the right circle but as he cut across the ice, instead of shuffling out and over to be in the proper position, he went deep in the crease and too far to his right ..... he was about 2 feet too deep and about 10" too far to the right ...... the shot went to the far post where there was a lot of open net ..... a problem with angles/position and goalie movement.

PENS GOAL #2 - Lovejoy shoots the puck from the right point off the boards behind the net and it comes back toward the near post ...... Vasilevskiy is near the corner of the crease when Lovejoy shoots the puck and moves to the near post in a reverse-VH position on the post which is fine ...... however, Vasilevshiy then makes 2 technical errors that lead to the game winning goal for the Pens .... first he reaches back for the puck and misses it so that it comes into the crease by the near post where Rust shoots it through a small opening between the post and Vasilevskiy's pads ...... the second mistake, and a BIG one, was that Vasilevskiy had his goal stick way out of position ..... it was up in the air and off to his right side ...... if he would have had the stick paddle down in front of him when he reached back for the puck, he could have either controlled the puck or stuffed Rust's shot ...... you can actually see him trying to get the stick down in proper position but it was too late. I think he will look at the film, learn a lot, and be a better goalie for it.

3) Murray/Fleury ..... I'm not exactly sure what will happen but Fleury has been really good the last 2-3 years, even good in the playoffs the last two years and he was maybe the best player on the team earlier this season before Sullivan became the coach and he kept us in game after game ..... as some have said, we may not have made the playoffs this season without MAF ...... the concussion obviously really negatively affected him and the prolonged absence has made him just not very ready for games ...... Murray has been very good and looks to have a bright future but you just never know how much young goalies will progress and peak or even take a step backwards once teams get to know their weaknesses ...... they may try to trade Fleury in the off season but I suspect that he will be back and Fleury and Murray will both play early next season and whoever plays the best will take over as the #1 goalie ..... if Murray plays really well and Fleury becomes the back up, they may try to trade Fleury by the deadline if they can get the right trade ..... some of this may also depend on the development of Jarry at WBS and the upcoming NHL expansion draft..... on the other hand, don't bet against Fleury, he could be #1 next season ...... we will just have to see how it plays out .... a lot of variables at this point in time ..... Murray looks to be very well coached and is very advanced in his technique for his age ...... he looks to have a very bright future .... he has things to work on like getting stronger, glove saves, closing the "6" hole, angles/positioning and goalie movement among other things but he has a great fundamental foundation.

4) A word about goalie equipment ..... the reason goals are harder to score is not the size of the goalie equipment getting bigger, in fact, over the last 10 years or so it has in some ways gotten smaller and the size is now regulated ...... the width of the pads was decreased from 12 to 11 inches .... the length of the pads now can't be longer then 38" and every goalie is now measured as to what the longest length of their pads can be ..... the pads can only go so far above the knees and so shorter players have shorter length of pads ...... the chest protectors have to now fit tight to the chest, the jerseys only so wide ..... the size of the blocker and glove are capped and no bigger ...... pants can't have side pads over a certain size..... stick blades and paddles have not gotten bigger ..... the rules were in place but goalies wore oversized equipment in the past and now they can't because it is now regulated ...... all equipment worn by goalies in games has to be certified by the league before hand ...... most of the equipment that is bigger is so because the goalies in general are getting physically bigger......

It is more difficult to score because the goalies are better these days much more then their equipment size which has not increased for years ..... they are getting much better coaching all along the way and goaltending is becoming more scientific as to best angles/positions, goalie movement on and off their skates (power pushes, butterfly crawls, slides, etc.), new techniques (butterfly, post play with VH, VH-hybrid, reverse-VH techniques, ways to play breakaways, etc.) ....... goalies have gotten so good at playing the puck outside the net, that they are now only allowed to play it in the trapezoid behind the goal line..... the only position penalized because they are too good at something.

JUST MY OPINIONS GUYS AND GALS ......

5) Anyway, I can't wait to hear what the real goaltending guru says ...... and I can't wait for the Stanley Cup Finals to start ..... should be a good one !

^^^^^ This is really good ^^^^^

 

[goalieman]

^^^^^ This is really good ^^^^^

THANKS, "ric"

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I get what you're saying but that assumes that Pittsburgh won't trade, say Scott Wilson and a second round pick to Las Vegas in return for their promise to not take either goaltender.

Actually I didn't assume that, since that was exactly the kind of thing I suggested in my post.

 

[andypappas]

Playoffs

Matt Murray- 2.22 Goals against, 93% save percentage
Fleury- 3.03 Goals against, 88% save percentage

Regular Season

Matt Murray- 2.00 Goals against, 93% even save percentage, no rounding
Fluery- 2.29 Goals against, 92.1% save percentage

-The only argument you have against Murray is experience, because he outplayed Fleury this year at a difference of 5.4 million dollars.

Please do not compare the stats from the regular season. I don't want to rip on you but Fleury is one of the main reasons the Pens were in games at the beginning of the season. Do you not remember how they were playing until Sullivan took over? Murray played games at the end of the season when the Pens were one, if not the best team in the NHL.

You also keep saying that the Pens would be getting back an All-Star if they trade Fleury. I ask you this. Why would another GM give up a talented played if Fleury is as bad as you say.

One last comment, before you get rid of Fleury and go with Murray you BETTER be sure Murray will last. I have no problem what so ever with Murray, but I will leave you with 1 name

Steve Penney

 

[Old School1]

Please do not compare the stats from the regular season. I don't want to rip on you but Fleury is one of the main reasons the Pens were in games at the beginning of the season. Do you not remember how they were playing until Sullivan took over? Murray played games at the end of the season when the Pens were one, if not the best team in the NHL.

You also keep saying that the Pens would be getting back an All-Star if they trade Fleury. I ask you this. Why would another GM give up a talented played if Fleury is as bad as you say.

One last comment, before you get rid of Fleury and go with Murray you BETTER be sure Murray will last. I have no problem what so ever with Murray, but I will leave you with 1 name

Steve Penney

The key point is how do the PENS keep Fluery and Murray not get rid of one or the other!
Fluery is moving along, he's had some injuries, the latest concussion lasted a while, how many champ years does he have left?
He ( Fluery) does have a few liabilities:
-poor playoff performance
-the Flyers own him over the last three years & we seem to run into them a lot even in the playoffs
-his latest concussion since things can come to an abrupt end if he ends up with another one or two
When Fluery's performance falls off it would be nice to have Murray to plug in since at that point he'll be a proven commodity.
That's the challenge for you pinheads to debate!

 

[PhPanther1]

How does anybody feel confortable with Murray having to play between 70 to 90 games next year if he has NEVER played that much before? This year is by far his longest season he has ever played and has admitted to fatigue. The correct answer is a 60/40 MAF/Murray split next year so you can decide after next where to go. We were a team that needed 4 goalies in the NHL this year, and everybody is ready to turn this into a 1 goalie team that is manned by a 22 year old. Crazy stuff if you ask me.

What free agent backup goaltender would you bring in if Fleury is traded? Looking at the free agents, besides Cam Ward, its a bunch of trash....and you better believe somebody will be paying Cam Ward starter money to fill their void.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Please do not compare the stats from the regular season. I don't want to rip on you but Fleury is one of the main reasons the Pens were in games at the beginning of the season. Do you not remember how they were playing until Sullivan took over? Murray played games at the end of the season when the Pens were one, if not the best team in the NHL.

You also keep saying that the Pens would be getting back an All-Star if they trade Fleury. I ask you this. Why would another GM give up a talented played if Fleury is as bad as you say.

One last comment, before you get rid of Fleury and go with Murray you BETTER be sure Murray will last. I have no problem what so ever with Murray, but I will leave you with 1 name

Steve Penney

And Blaine Lacher...and Jim Carey...and Bob Mason...and Mario Goselin...and Jocelyn Thibeault...and Jeff Reese...and Manny Legace...and Frank McCool...and Richard Brodeur...etc.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Please do not compare the stats from the regular season. I don't want to rip on you but Fleury is one of the main reasons the Pens were in games at the beginning of the season. Do you not remember how they were playing until Sullivan took over? Murray played games at the end of the season when the Pens were one, if not the best team in the NHL.

You also keep saying that the Pens would be getting back an All-Star if they trade Fleury. I ask you this. Why would another GM give up a talented played if Fleury is as bad as you say.

One last comment, before you get rid of Fleury and go with Murray you BETTER be sure Murray will last. I have no problem what so ever with Murray, but I will leave you with 1 name

Steve Penney

And Blaine Lacher...and Jim Carey...and Bob Mason...and Mario Goselin...and Jocelyn Thibeault...and Jeff Reese...and Manny Legace...and Frank McCool...and Richard Brodeur...etc.

There is a big difference between these guys and Murray. Murray was drafted in the 3rd rd, which is rather high for a goalie. He was named to the Under 23 entry in the World Cup before he played 1 minute of playoffs with the Pens. He set AHL records (which if I recall has only been around for 60-70 years) for shutouts and shutout streak. To even mention some of these other guys is ridiculous. Blane Lacher? Come on. Frank McCool? Jeff Reese? Mario Gosselin? Come on.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

How does anybody feel confortable with Murray having to play between 70 to 90 games next year if he has NEVER played that much before? This year is by far his longest season he has ever played and has admitted to fatigue. The correct answer is a 60/40 MAF/Murray split next year so you can decide after next where to go. We were a team that needed 4 goalies in the NHL this year, and everybody is ready to turn this into a 1 goalie team that is manned by a 22 year old. Crazy stuff if you ask me.

What free agent backup goaltender would you bring in if Fleury is traded? Looking at the free agents, besides Cam Ward, its a bunch of trash....and you better believe somebody will be paying Cam Ward starter money to fill their void.

I am not worried about that right now. And really, there will be a backup next year in Pittsburgh whether it is MAF, Murray or someone else who will play 25-30 games.

 

[TD_istheman]

Fleury and his salary are gone, should be, like Pederson syndrome all over again around here. Well Fleury does his job better and is not a jackass, but his salary has to be gone and it will be soon.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

We are getting ready to play in the Stanley Cup Finals. Can't this wait for, oh, don't know, whenever we're not playing the most important games in the last seven years?

 

[maxwell#1]

Compare Murray's numbers to MAF's numbers this year.

There is no question that this is by far the best set of D the Pens have had in a long time. Good lord last year super genius Jimmie left them so bare that Iceburgh was going to suit up. Watching some of these games and you can see how much better this D group is loose a guy like Dailey and you do not miss a beat. No offense to either goalie but there are times that who ever is in net really does not matter. Leave Murray in or whoever with that D Us winning will not be due to outstanding goal play like 09 just hope the stars can shine and 58 does not have his daily bonehead play. On a side note with goalies being so much better today there is a real chance that Ovie is the best goal scorer ever based on what he does in relationship to average goals per game. No one is in his class this era you need to go way back to Bossey or Bobby Hull for comparable stats forget the pinball Mario Grets era you had every team with crazy goal scorers.

 

[PhPanther1]

Welp, there goes the we can't protect Murray and Fleury theory. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Fleury all automatically protected due to their contracts.

 

[steel_curtain]

Welp, there goes the we can't protect Murray and Fleury theory. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Fleury all automatically protected due to their contracts.

-What? Link?

Fleury has a trade clause.

 

[PhPanther1]

-What? Link?

Fleury has a trade clause.

Bill Daly announced before the finals.
Yes, Fleury has a partial where he can list 12 teams every year. Like Kessel had.

 

[steel_curtain]

Bill Daly announced before the finals.
Yes, Fleury has a partial where he can list 12 teams every year. Like Kessel had.

-I've already posted this.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Let's worry about that after the actual games. It's OK to look at the map, fellas. Just be sure to look out the window time or two as well.

 

[pittdan77]

The football equivalent to this situation would be, what would New England do?

Veteran who is peaking but has injury problems (concussions affect eyesight, not good) and still has a ton of value. Win or lose the finals, Murray is worth betting on at this point. Not only that but the model you're built on can't sustain most of your cap being tied up in a few, very good players.

The hoodie trades MAF for draft picks and I think the Pens will do that too at some point very soon. Move him out west where to a team that perennially over-reaches in trades for a slew of draft picks. (In hockey terms, prospects or draft picks.) Even if Murray turns out to be average, it's not the end of the world because I doubt MAF will just shrug off this concussion issue. Took Crosby several years to look somewhat normal again and that could play out here also.

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

And Blaine Lacher...and Jim Carey...and Bob Mason...and Mario Goselin...and Jocelyn Thibeault...and Jeff Reese...and Manny Legace...and Frank McCool...and Richard Brodeur...etc.

Holy sh!t I forgot about Jim Carey......I now remember that rage, with the Jim Carey masks from his movie......wow