Those that have seen him play which I haven't is he that good that he's a top6 pick which I've seen in most mocks ,didn't he back up Clifford at ped st at some point
Will levis
- Thread starter Section 509
- Start date
Absolute 0 chance to be a good NFL QB. Saw some tweets with some of his picks/bad decisions. Amazing he's going Top 5. Pickett is light years better
He’s going to get some poor coach fired somewhere because the coach’s GM is an idiot for drafting him.
I agree. I was not impressed with him whatsoever. I didn't think he was very accurate the games I watched.
I hope someone is dumb enough to take him before the Steelers pick. It will leave an extra player available for them.
All they see is 6'3" 230 lbs and a rocket arm. Everyone trying to get another Josh Allen. Thoughts on Richardson? Another physically gifted QB who lacked production in college and struggled with accuracy.
He's a great prospect if you don't care about the QB being able to complete a pass.
Kentucky's offense ranked 105th in the country ,why on earth is he ranked so high
Honestly, if you run a scheme where the you expect the QB to have a prominent role in the run game, he "MIGHT" be groomed to be a backup in that type of system. It seems those systems need to treat the QB position like the tailback position.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
If he had another year and decided to transfer to Pitt, I mean I would think he's a good college QB but I wouldn't be like over the moon excited because I dont think he's anything special. Better than Jurkovec or Patti? Yes. But not in the same stratosphere as Pickett. You should see this Twitter lowlight video of some of his awful throws and reads. And some team is going to take him in the Top 5. This is why I always say you dont take a QB in Round 1 unless his a generational cant miss guy. As much as I like Pickett, an objective SMF probably doesnt even take him Round 1. The Round 1 Bust Rate at the QB position is far too high. Load up on other positions and get your QB in the later rounds (Purdy???) or free agency.
Kentucky’s offense is just brutal under Stoops.
They frequently have little talent, especially at the skill position.
The scheme is a bunched up man-ball style because that’s what Stoops wants to do. But it’s difficult to do that anywhere, and if you don’t have a dominant OL, you aren’t going to have success doing that in the SEC.
Using analytic rankings, I think Coen is only OC under Stoops to field a Top 50 offense the entire time he’s been at Kentucky. And the list of OCs have all been pretty established and reasonably successful guys.
Levis might still suck. But as a QB, Kentucky under Stoops is an extremely difficult situation.
Last edited:
Funny, now I’m seeing analysts talk about how the 23 QB class is weak and 24 will be stronger. Same thing we heard last draft. Getting KP with the first pick is looking pretty smart right now.
Wat?
Will Levis had multiple NFL players.
Wan'Dale Robinson went in the 2nd round.
Chris Rodriguez is an NFL back.
Dane Key and Barion Brown were both graded in the top 4 in freshman WR in the entire country. Key was #2. Both of those guys might be NFL Day 2 picks in 2 years.
That's not to mention the guys Levis had at PSU like Jahan Dotson, Friermuth, and Parker Washington.
Levis has played with a lot of talent. Certainly way more than Pickett did throughout the totality of Levis' career.
Remember everyone who said we shouldn't draft KP because the 2023 QB class was so good? Decent chance that none are on the board at 17 (just like I said). Maybe without Pickett we could have lost a few more games to get us in the top 10 but there's still no guarantee Levis or Richardson would be there at 10. And I don't really want either of those guys if I'm being honest. Would much rather have Pickett and Bresee/Porter versus Linderbaum/Richardson (especially if it meant a 6-11 season).
amazed by all the intense film study of this kid from Kentucky by the Lair denizens such that they know something so emphatically negative that the NFL talent scouts are utterly unable to pick up on..hahahaha
Never ceases to amaze me the sheer volume of football some watch.. that or they read a bunch of fans' message boards..
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Even without Pickett, Steelers aren't getting down so low that they get the pick of the litter. I don't know enough about any of these guys to really have an opinion but I do know that Big Ben wasn't considered any kind of a generational QB either but he served as a very adequate starter for a really long time. That really is the best you're going to do most years unless you completely bottom out as a franchise.
I'd say the same about EVERY tOSU QB. People never learn. The next great OSU qb in the pros will be the first.
Ben actually was a really good QB prospect. He checked a lot of the boxes that I look for in elite QBs and he did it in an era where passing was really hard. Check this out:
- 1st round pick (Ben went 11th)
- 6'2+ (Ben 6'5")
- 220lbs+ (Ben 240lbs)
- Career YPA 8.0+ (Ben 8.4)
- Best season YPA 9.0+ (Ben 9.6, which is insane in 2003)
- Career Comp% 60+ (Ben 65%)
- Best Season Comp% 65+ (Ben 69%, again insane for 2003)
- Career attempts 1,000+ (Ben 1,300)
- Best season yards 3,750+ (Ben 4,486 - he almost hits my max of 4,500)
- Best season TDs 40+ (Ben 40)
- Best season rushing 300+ (Ben 189)
- Sub 4.8 40 time (Ben 4.75)
- Career INT% less than 2.75% (Ben 2.6%)
So Ben checks every single elite metric EXCEPT single season rushing yards. I guess the caveat is that he played in the MAC but that kind of cuts both ways since he was also throwing to MAC level WR. In any event, he was a very, very good prospect. I actually wanted Rivers at the time bc we were a win-now roster but I thought Big Ben would be the best of them. He was like a more polished Josh Allen to me.
It was just a different time back then. Teams thought they good win with the running game and TE or huge WR so they deprioritized QBs. Ben wouldn't go 11th today. Given his immense physical gifts, he might go 1st overall actually if the modern NFL decided to re-roll Rivers, Eli, and Ben in the 2023 draft.
For the record, Levis fails on both passing YPA metrics, career attempts, best season passing yards, total TDs, and career INT% but he gets the rest.
Pickett failed on career YPA and best season rushing but he passed the rest.
Yeah the NFL has never egregiously overdrafted an unproductive white QB because he can throw a really pretty ball in shorts.
IDK what Levis will be at the next level. I don't think anyone does. But nothing about his resume, to me, indicates that he's a top 5 or even a top 10 pick. There's a good chance that he gets someone fired just like Zach Wilson and Drew Lock did.
as I kind of implied, they are no match for you guys...
not sure what white has to do with anything...seems to me messed up QB picks are spread out evenly across racial lines...need a list?
I love the sarcasm. Yeah I've never played in the NFL but god forbid I question decisions made by the pinnacle of football excellence like the New York Jets. How's Zach Wilson doing btw? Benched for street free agent Mike White? And the GM is desperate for Derek Carr so he doesn't get fired? Wow yeah whoever running that team is way smarter than me!
Yeah I'm a nobody but your extreme deference to authority would have you drinking Heaven's Gate juice in a bathrobe.
not good..not sure what pertinence that has to the conversation
Thanks for letting us all know there are busts at he QB position and you have the insights on who they will be without question but the NFL scouts are clueless as to this certainty..
I missed your contributions to the discussion here beyond just naysaying other people. I'm sure they're brilliant though!
Are you trying to tell me that Richardson is being considered as a top 20 pick? I'll admit I haven't read up much on draft prospects, but I can't fathom a guy as awful as Richardson being discussed as a 1st rounder. He makes Levis look like Joe Montana.
Idk, it's hard to say. ESPN has him graded as an 86 which is probably more like a 2nd round grade. I use Lance Zierlein a bit more and Richardson is below both Pickett and Willis on ESPN and with Zierlein. But we saw what happened with Willis.
He's above Mac Jones with Lance Z but below on ESPN.
I think he's close to Jordan Love in terms of rankings.
With a player like Richardson you'll have wild deviations in evaluation. Some teams will fall in love with the traits and some won't want to spend the years it will take to develop him. I personally don't think he will go in the top 10. Just think there are too many safer players with high upside there, especially with pass rush and CB. But if he tests at the combine - and he should - he will absolutely go nuclear and might make someone fall in love with him.
yes, and when Levis was throwing to an upperclassman NFL guy and handing it off to a decent NFL RB graded guy that was also an upperclassman, Kentucky had an offense that ranked Top 20 in the country.
He just hasn’t had that much. And certainly not the type of talent that can overcome Stoops. Which was my actual point.
Stoops is horrible for offenses. If you’re judging Levis by Kentucky’s lack of offensive ranking, you’re probably not being fair to Levis. As Kentucky has basically only had a lack of offensive ranking under Stoops. Except for one year. And Levis was the QB that year.
If a team falls in love with his measurables. Sometimes draft analysts like prospects more than the NFL does (Willis last season).
Levis passes the eye ball test. Allen has really changed the game for QBs. He wasn't great his last year and that was against weak competition. But he had all the measurable. Someone is going to think they can fix Levis. Who knows maybe they can. But I wouldn't be picking him in the top15 picks.
I posted on the other board. Josh Allen is the reason why Levis is ranked so highly. He has an arm and can run. Can he be a good QB? That to me is the issue. You would think he should have been more successful this year at Kentucky. Then again I know a QB who was highly regarded after his JR year and had a down Sr year and dropped on draft boards. He turned out okay.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I didn't mean to suggest Ben wasn't a good prospect. He just wasn't hyped as "the guy" in that draft. Eli Manning and Philip Rivers got all the attention. Ended up being a decent first round for QB's but Ben was the third guy taken and probably had the best career, overall.
Have not really watched Levis much but he looks like he’s got size and seeing him throw, he’s got a big arm. But my issue with the Josh Allen projection is that Allen played at a small high school, went juco, then to Wyoming. He always relied on his physical tools because he could do so, and not be as concerned with preparation, processing, and polish. Levis played at PSU and Kentucky. One would think he had access to better coaching, resources etc. Maybe there is room to improve, but it isn’t like he’s been playing in the backwoods for college.
I have to admit, I targeted Ben as my choice as Steelers QB watching Miami play on ESPN one Wednesday night in a snowstorm, and he was just gunning the ball all over the place. Saw his size and athleticism (yes young Ben was extremely athletic) and I wanted him over Rivers or Eli.
He has good traits. But I am skeptical of taking a traits-only QB in the top 5 and then hoping he becomes Josh Allen, which is a 100th percentile outcome that Allen probably only achieved because he also had extraordinary coaching (Daboll in particular) and they traded for a top 5 WR. Indy probably doesn't have either of those things. Vegas has McDaniels, who is ok, and Adams who is 30 years old and has maybe 1-2 more elite seasons in him. And Levis isn't as big or physical as Josh Allen either.
Not saying Levis is a bad QB. But if he is so good why was his most productive season only a fraction of Kenny "hands too small / can't throw it deep" Pickett's? Levis is also turning 24 so he's not young either. I'd take him in the top 20 like Pickett. Certainly not in the top 5.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
In retrospect, I believe he was clearly the best of the four first round QB's that year.
I remember it a bit differently. Eli, Rivers, and Ben were all seen as in the same tier-ish, but offering different things. Rivers was the most ready. Eli was a nice combo of ready-plus-traits and he had NFL bloodlines. Ben was the high upside guy. Everyone thought all 3 could play at a high level. I don't think there was a unanimous #1 like we saw with Trevor Lawrence in 2021. There were definitely people who had Ben #1. Most common it was probably Eli, Rivers, Ben.
There was a really unique dynamic with Eli which we saw played out. SD had the #1 pick but they were historically a train wreck and the Manning family made it clear that Eli would never play there. The GM of the NY Giants was a guy named Ernie Accorsi. He was also the GM of the Colts when Elway came out and refused to play there. So Accorsi had been through losing a premier QB and wasn't going to do it again. So he was extra motivated to go up and get Eli.
Had had different circumstances - maybe SD didn't have #1 and Accorsi wasn't around - it might have played out differently with Ben going #1. I have no idea why why teams were taking CBs and even a TE (Kellen Winslow) ahead of Ben. But it was a different league back then like I said. If these 3 were on the board today I think all 3 of them go before Young and Stroud but that's just my opinion.
