Winning with Chryst's players or losing because of them?

[sappycrease]

I had this debate with my nephew (fellow diehard) over the weekend and wanted to get everyone's opinion. My nephew was a big fan of Paul Chryst and states that last season's success and this year's pivotal win over PSU was because of the foundation Chryst provided for Narduzzi. His basis for this argument was the recruitment of key players playing major roles such as Conner, Boyd, Booker, D. Johnson, Ollison, Orndoff, Whitehead, and Q. Henderson. He then offered Wisconsin's current success as another angle for the argument.

I came back with the argument that Narduzzi has been handcuffed with the defensive shortcomings that Chryst left the program with (particularly the CBs) and Narduzzi's first full class was much more talented than anything Chryst was able to bring to fruition (rankings-wise). Narduzzi was also capable of winning 8 games last year with said team that Chryst was never able to win more than 6 games with. I believe as Narduzzi is able to bring in guys that fit his defensive plan, the better our team will be as a whole. Narduzzi longterm is a much better option for the Pitt football program than Chryst.

Not trying to flame either coach, just seeing what the rest of guys are feeling.

Thanks for your thoughts and input!

 

[9nationalchampionships]

We are basically playing Chryst's players....win or lose

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

We are basically playing Chryst's players....win or lose

This pretty much sums it up for me.

Chryst had to play with several people's players (his own, grahams, even wannys). Now Narduzzi is stuck with Chryst players, like it or lump it. lets just hope that nard dog continues to win games and maybe someday he will have a team full of his own players. hopefully he hangs around long enough to have five full classes of his own guys.

 

[OriginalEther]

Obviously it's a combination of both, though I suspect the majority here will place blame on Chrysts players.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It's Rich Fraud's fault.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Why worry about two coaches that never intended to stay at Pitt? Todd Graham left and Paul Chryst never took the Pitt job to stay at Pitt either?

Godspeed to both for a job they never wanted to stay in anyway and both left with losing records Graham's 6-7 and Chryst's 19-20?

 

[PHATWOOD]

This isn't hard. We're winning AND losing because of them.

Many of the talented offensive players were recruited by Chryst, clearly the offensive line is talented. But the quarterback situation remained so/so under Chryst.

There's no way to spin the dumpster fire on the defensive side.

So Saturday, Jester Weah who was a Paul Chryst reach finally comes through (although a couple of Narduzzi recruits sure had a hand in the victory offensively) while Chryst's defensive backfield recruits were able to hold off disaster just long enough.

 

[Piranha]

I had this debate with my nephew (fellow diehard) over the weekend and wanted to get everyone's opinion. My nephew was a big fan of Paul Chryst and states that last season's success and this year's pivotal win over PSU was because of the foundation Chryst provided for Narduzzi. His basis for this argument was the recruitment of key players playing major roles such as Conner, Boyd, Booker, D. Johnson, Ollison, Orndoff, Whitehead, and Q. Henderson. He then offered Wisconsin's current success as another angle for the argument.

I came back with the argument that Narduzzi has been handcuffed with the defensive shortcomings that Chryst left the program with (particularly the CBs) and Narduzzi's first full class was much more talented than anything Chryst was able to bring to fruition (rankings-wise). Narduzzi was also capable of winning 8 games last year with said team that Chryst was never able to win more than 6 games with. I believe as Narduzzi is able to bring in guys that fit his defensive plan, the better our team will be as a whole. Narduzzi longterm is a much better option for the Pitt football program than Chryst.

Not trying to flame either coach, just seeing what the rest of guys are feeling.

Thanks for your thoughts and input!

Chryst is an offensive guy who brought in talent on offense, but did a bad job with the defense. Hiring House as DC and not recruiting better on that side of the ball really hurt. That is why we are in our current position.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Chryst inherited a medicore 6-6 program and maintained mediocrity on the field and in recruiting. Narduzzi outperformed the talent Chryst left him in Year 1 and is performing TO that talent level this year.

In a nutshell, Chryst can be thanked for the offense we have and blamed for the defense.

 

[TD_istheman]

I think Sleepy recruited very avg, and that's what our results will be. Until Duzz recruits better , we will be a 6-6/7-5 program.

Sleepy gets credit for the O, and blame for the D

 

[PITTLAW]

I had this debate with my nephew (fellow diehard) over the weekend and wanted to get everyone's opinion. My nephew was a big fan of Paul Chryst and states that last season's success and this year's pivotal win over PSU was because of the foundation Chryst provided for Narduzzi. His basis for this argument was the recruitment of key players playing major roles such as Conner, Boyd, Booker, D. Johnson, Ollison, Orndoff, Whitehead, and Q. Henderson. He then offered Wisconsin's current success as another angle for the argument.

I came back with the argument that Narduzzi has been handcuffed with the defensive shortcomings that Chryst left the program with (particularly the CBs) and Narduzzi's first full class was much more talented than anything Chryst was able to bring to fruition (rankings-wise). Narduzzi was also capable of winning 8 games last year with said team that Chryst was never able to win more than 6 games with. I believe as Narduzzi is able to bring in guys that fit his defensive plan, the better our team will be as a whole. Narduzzi longterm is a much better option for the Pitt football program than Chryst.

Not trying to flame either coach, just seeing what the rest of guys are feeling.

Thanks for your thoughts and input!

The fair answer is both. The new guy always inherits what is left behind. Sometimes there is enough there that with a new system and strategy--you win more. Besides for last season, another good example would be Walt's first season with Johnny II recruits, he managed to win six games and go to a bowl. There is obviously some talent on the present Pitt squad--but there are obviously some major holes and a lack of depth. Narduzzi gets credit for every win he coaches--regardless of whether he recruited the kid or not. He also gets the same credit for losses. That is how it works. Not sure I understand why it matters...but Narduzzi is the new coach and the focus should be on him and what he does while is our head coach. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Jpripper88]

Chryst is an offensive guy who brought in talent on offense, but did a bad job with the defense. Hiring House as DC and not recruiting better on that side of the ball really hurt. That is why we are in our current position.

Chryst brought in talent at two positions: OL and RB.

Chryst had two full classes. 2013 was actually a pretty solid class that had 1 out of nowhere star (although he would have committed to whoever was the HC at Pitt) in James Conner and two very, very good players in Boyd and Johnson, backed up by a lot of solid players.

However, 2014 was pretty damn suspect. These are the only 5 I see as decent players and #5 is probably our 4th best RB. Honestly, Elijiah Zeise might be the only other real contributor from this class and he honestly has no business being on a P5 LB depth chart. That is really, really bad.

2014:
1. Brian O'Neil
2. Alex Bookser
3. Rori Blair
4. Avonte Maddox
5. Qadree Ollison

 

[Jakey_John]

Paul Chryst had Tom Savage, Devin Street, Tyler Boyd and James Conner and still only won six games. That team also had Ray Vinopal and K'waun Willaims- two guys we'd kill for and he couldn't get more than six. He may turn out to be a great coach but he certainly didn't get the job done here.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Chryst brought in talent at two positions: OL and RB.

Chryst had two full classes. 2013 was actually a pretty solid class that had 1 out of nowhere star (although he would have committed to whoever was the HC at Pitt) in James Conner and two very, very good players in Boyd and Johnson, backed up by a lot of solid players.

However, 2014 was pretty damn suspect. These are the only 5 I see as decent players and #5 is probably our 4th best RB. Honestly, Elijiah Zeise might be the only other real contributor from this class and he honestly has no business being on a P5 LB depth chart. That is really, really bad.

2014:
1. Brian O'Neil
2. Alex Bookser
3. Rori Blair
4. Avonte Maddox
5. Qadree Ollison

Of that list, O'Neill is very good, Bookser is a solid P5 starter. Ollison, I'm not sure what to make of. But Maddox and Blair aren't legitimate P5 starters. So can it be that we had as few as 2 legitimate P5 starters out of a whole class?

 

[thebadby2]

Ummmmmm....both?

He left us an O line, a TE and a bunch of backs. All important pieces.

We had to grab a castoff to play QB for us.

The defensive personnel that the Chryst regime is responsible for bringing in are not P5 level and you can turn on any MAC or CUSA game and find better LBs and DBs.all over the place.

 

[BigZeke]

Chryst is an offensive guy who brought in talent on offense, but did a bad job with the defense. Hiring House as DC and not recruiting better on that side of the ball really hurt. That is why we are in our current position.

Can't believe I'm even typing this but Conklin is starting to make House look like Buddy Ryan.

 

[joeydavid]

And Aaron Donald.

Paul Chryst had Tom Savage, Devin Street, Tyler Boyd and James Conner and still only won six games. That team also had Ray Vinopal and K'waun Willaims- two guys we'd kill for and he couldn't get more than six. He may turn out to be a great coach but he certainly didn't get the job done here.

 

[kma0043]

Is Chryst having success at Wisc due to his predecessor's (Bielema?) recruits? Give it another year or 2 and time will tell with Duzz and Chryst both.

 

[joeydavid]

And Gary Andersen's recruits.

Is Chryst having success at Wisc due to his predecessor's (Bielema?) recruits? Give it another year or 2 and time will tell with Duzz and Chryst both.

 

[Piranha]

Can't believe I'm even typing this but Conklin is starting to make House look like Buddy Ryan.

1) What good defensive players did House and the rest of his staff recruit to Pitt?
2) House did a masterful job getting abused by Youngstown St and Akron.
3) Where is House today?
4) Compare the talent that House had compared to what he left us.
5) You are normally a good poster. Do not be swayed by the idiots on this board.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

And Gary Andersen's recruits.

According to Rivals, Wisconsin is recruiting at a higher level now than it did under Anderson.

 

[joeydavid]

To be fair, Chryst's success at UW is almost 100% on the back of the defense and the DC he didn't hire. The offense has been poor too bad.

Is Chryst having success at Wisc due to his predecessor's (Bielema?) recruits? Give it another year or 2 and time will tell with Duzz and Chryst both.

 

[joeydavid]

Do you seriously expect UW's recuiting to maintain/increase by signing day?

According to Rivals, Wisconsin is recruiting at a higher level now than it did under Anderson.

 

[OriginalEther]

1) What good defensive players did House and the rest of his staff recruit to Pitt?
2) House did a masterful job getting abused by Youngstown St and Akron.
3) Where is House today?
4) Compare the talent that House had compared to what he left us.
5) You are normally a good poster. Do not be swayed by the idiots on this board.

House wasn't the Dc for the ysu game.
As for Akron, I think the offense the what....ten points....it scored was the bigger culprit.
Otherwise mostly agree. And remember Narduzzi is running the d, not Conklin.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Do you seriously expect UW's recuiting to maintain/increase by signing day?

I have no idea how well Wisconsin is going to recruit and I don't really care? I cheer for the Pitt Panthers and I'm much more worried about our recruiting efforts than theirs.

I'm just making the point that people make themselves sound incredibly stupid when talking about that guy.

Before the season everyone was talking about how he was going to be exposed this year after winning 10 games last year.

Well, we're almost halfway through the season and Wisconsin has a neutral site win over LSU and a road win over Michigan State. That's pretty good.

They also have a very narrow road loss at Michigan. That's pretty impressive too and I have no idea why people can't bring themselves to admit it?

Instead, they want to credit everyone they can other than him.

However, Wisconsin is playing with a true freshman quarterback and no kicker so they're going to drop a few more games this year. When that happens will people absolve Chryst for those losses?

Will they blame Barry Alvarez? What about Gary Anderson? Will he be blamed?

Of course not – that's not how this rigged game works.

 

[beiglepanther]

Yes

 

[BigZeke]

1) What good defensive players did House and the rest of his staff recruit to Pitt?
2) House did a masterful job getting abused by Youngstown St and Akron.
3) Where is House today?
4) Compare the talent that House had compared to what he left us.
5) You are normally a good poster. Do not be swayed by the idiots on this board.

All great points and I was mostly kidding but stubbornly putting those lackluster recruits in no win schemes & situations is rather Housian don't u think?

 

[thebadby2]

I have no idea how well Wisconsin is going to recruit and I don't really care? I cheer for the Pitt Panthers and I'm much more worried about our recruiting efforts than theirs.

I'm just making the point that people make themselves sound incredibly stupid when talking about that guy.

Before the season everyone was talking about how he was going to be exposed this year after winning 10 games last year.

Well, we're almost halfway through the season and Wisconsin has a neutral site win over LSU and a road win over Michigan State. That's pretty good.

They also have a very narrow road loss at Michigan. That's pretty impressive too and I have no idea why people can't bring themselves to admit it?

Instead, they want to credit everyone they can other than him.

However, Wisconsin is playing with a true freshman quarterback and no kicker so they're going to drop a few more games this year. When that happens will people absolve Chryst for those losses?

Will they blame Barry Alvarez? What about Gary Anderson? Will he be blamed?

Of course not – that's not how this rigged game works.

Chryst has a defensive juggernaut. He truly deserves no credit for that. Dave Aramda built a very solid unit, and Alvarez's replacement for him, Justin Wilcox, has taken it up another notch. Not one of those players in the defensive 2 deep was a PC recruit. If Chrys let had his way, Matt House would have been his DC from Day 1, but BA said you're keeping Aramda, capiche? That's a factual accounting of how that went down.

Offensively they are very pedestrian as they were last year. They are breaking in a rookie QB and Hornibrook looks like he will be very good in time, but he will have his struggles for a while. They were unable to run the ball ar all against that Michigan defense. Frankly I still don't believe in the guy, and I think worse days are ahead for that program. But his record so far at Wisky is impressive to be sure.

 

[ebonylover40]

Look the bottom line is that on defense if you dont have the athletes that can play it doesnt matter what changes, schemes you make you cant cover their weakness. On offense its different other than on the line. Look no further than Georgia Tech.

I post this because everyone seems to think the coaches are not making changes to fit the players. Ive watched Webb play both man and zone. No matter what position he is in, he is not athletic enough to make a play. On type of that he plays lost even when it is obvious which man he should take in his zone. He always seem to let a guy loose and pick up the guy whose cover knowing the he is the deep saftey. He then realize his mistake and ends up trying to get back.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Silly question. Answer's both.

Still, shocking how poorly Chryst recruiting the WR position and, even more so, how the D is even worse than it was under House... At least, over the first quarter of the season.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Chryst is an offensive guy who brought in talent on offense, but did a bad job with the defense. Hiring House as DC and not recruiting better on that side of the ball really hurt. That is why we are in our current position.

The defensive scheme isn't helping

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Chryst has a defensive juggernaut. He truly deserves no credit for that. Dave Aramda built a very solid unit, and Alvarez's replacement for him, Justin Wilcox, has taken it up another notch. Not one of those players in the defensive 2 deep was a PC recruit. If Chrys let had his way, Matt House would have been his DC from Day 1, but BA said you're keeping Aramda, capiche? That's a factual accounting of how that went down.

Offensively they are very pedestrian as they were last year. They are breaking in a rookie QB and Hornibrook looks like he will be very good in time, but he will have his struggles for a while. They were unable to run the ball ar all against that Michigan defense. Frankly I still don't believe in the guy, and I think worse days are ahead for that program. But his record so far at Wisky is impressive to be sure.

House wasn't even his first choice for D.C. At Pitt.

 

[PantherO]

Yes..just to agree with everyone...

I think we are winning with Chryst's Offense...The fact he couldn't get a real DC here killed us.

Duzz is mixing in some of his guys into the offense (skilled players)..will see how good his line building is in a few years.

 

[pittmeister]

The answer is both....You win and lose with players. We have them on offense and few on defense. The mindset of a coach is reflected in the positions they recruit well. If he's an offensive minded coach, he will do a better job recruiting offensive players and vice versa.

 

[thebadby2]

Look the bottom line is that on defense if you dont have the athletes that can play it doesnt matter what changes, schemes you make you cant cover their weakness. On offense its different other than on the line. Look no further than Georgia Tech.

I post this because everyone seems to think the coaches are not making changes to fit the players. Ive watched Webb play both man and zone. No matter what position he is in, he is not athletic enough to make a play. On type of that he plays lost even when it is obvious which man he should take in his zone. He always seem to let a guy loose and pick up the guy whose cover knowing the he is the deep saftey. He then realize his mistake and ends up trying to get back.

The playing lost part is far worse with him than the physical limitations. He seems overwhelmed back there when there are more than 2 WRs out on deeper routes. Tons of missed assignments. Hard to believe he;s the best man we have for the job.

 

[thebadby2]

House wasn't even his first choice for D.C. At Pitt.

It was no secret that Chryst was not given a choice about keeping Aranda on as DC. That was a condition of his job offer.

This shouldn't be any kind of news flash, but nobody in the Wisconsin football program can so much as take a piss without clearance from the Godfather. BA has his hands all over it and fingerprints on every decision, every hire. That's why the program has been very consistent since he retired as coach and why some very talented head coaches have bailed unexpectedly because they got sick of BA's $hit. There's only one boss in the Wisconsin football program and if you don't like it, here;s the door. Chryst is still nothing more than a glorified OC.

Wisconsin football news: Matt House no longer joining Paul Chryst
Two days after a report citing assistant coaches Matt House and John Settle would jump from Pitt to Wisconsin, Andy Baggot of the Wisconsin State Journal reports House apparently will not join the Badgers' coaching staff, while Settle has not committed to coaching at UW next season after being offered a position. No firm reason was given as to why the plan to have House come aboard may have changed.

 

[Jpripper88]

Of that list, O'Neill is very good, Bookser is a solid P5 starter. Ollison, I'm not sure what to make of. But Maddox and Blair aren't legitimate P5 starters. So can it be that we had as few as 2 legitimate P5 starters out of a whole class?

Yes. That is the absolute best of an entire class. And that is the class that was, by far, HIS class. Not even Graham finger prints on that class.

That is, honestly, one of the worst recruiting classes I have ever seen from a P5. Absolutely terrible.

 

[thebadby2]

Silly question. Answer's both.

Still, shocking how poorly Chryst recruiting the WR position and, even more so, how the D is even worse than it was under House... At least, over the first quarter of the season.

Chryst's biggest failing by far was recruiting the QB position. Not one P5 starting caliber player out of any that he signed at Pitt. Look these guys up:

Voytik (really Graham's guy)
Bertke
Tra'Von Chapman

That's it. Pretty bad for a QB coach/OC.

 

[thebadby2]

Chryst brought in talent at two positions: OL and RB.

Chryst had two full classes. 2013 was actually a pretty solid class that had 1 out of nowhere star (although he would have committed to whoever was the HC at Pitt) in James Conner and two very, very good players in Boyd and Johnson, backed up by a lot of solid players.

However, 2014 was pretty damn suspect. These are the only 5 I see as decent players and #5 is probably our 4th best RB. Honestly, Elijiah Zeise might be the only other real contributor from this class and he honestly has no business being on a P5 LB depth chart. That is really, really bad.

2014:
1. Brian O'Neil
2. Alex Bookser
3. Rori Blair
4. Avonte Maddox
5. Qadree Ollison

Many of our starters and key reserves now are from the 2013 class, FWIW. I think Titus Howard would be starting at one corner for us if he hadn't been dismissed,

 

[Jpripper88]

Many of our starters and key reserves now are from the 2013 class, FWIW. I think Titus Howard would be starting at one corner for us if he hadn't been dismissed,

Yeah, that actually was a pretty solid class. I think a lot of our starters from that class are average to below average starters, but they are where a bunch of our team came from. That was a good effort by Chryst and staff. I'm not sure any Pitt coach doesn't land the 3 best players in that class, but the rest was solid anyways.

2014 was an abortion.