World Cup 2022 Thread

[Pitt79]

Would you people please stop pretending like the US in UEFA would be bad for MLS?

Maybe it wouldn't be bad, maybe it would be better like you say? But I'm an old ancient dinosaur and don't want it to happen, because THE USA IS NOT IN EUROPE. And to be honest, a "world class" MLS where LA, NY or Miami win EVERY FRIGGIN' YEAR- and half the smaller markets fold, doesn't appeal to me, I like the current wide open MLS where Columbus, Ohio can beat NY or LA. I've discussed this with people who live in Europe, including England, who are MLS fans, who like it for the reasons I mention, it's not Bama and Clemson every year, they actually like the wide open unpredictable nature over the quality of play.

 

[PeetWeet2]

Their TV ratings and TV deal is very bad. That's where the money is made. Also, world-class soccer means increased ticket prices, jersey sponsors, corporate boxes, etc. Would you people please stop pretending like the US in UEFA would be bad for MLS? Nobody watches MLS other than the niche fans of those teams. Its like the NHL, even worse.

Bad for who? It would be great for the fans of the top teams. Suck for the fans of the have-nots. It would be atrocious for the owners. Don’t think they can’t figure out that they could go to a pro/rel system, get rid of the salary cap and instantly have some teams that are competitive with some of the teams in the top leagues. They would also make way less, and probably lose money. They didn’t pay huge expansion fees to be forced to either be uncompetitive, or lose a Billion dollars. Did you read Joe’s post?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I’d be ok for the US and Canada in a “western confederation” not called UEFA. So if our geopolitical allies like England and Spain and all the others who make up UEFA are in it with us, then yeah. There’s nothing that makes Nicaragua and El Salvador a rival more than England or France. But it needs to be rigged so that we make the World Cup most years. .

 

[Pitt79]

I’d be ok for the US and Canada in a “western confederation” not called UEFA. So if our geopolitical allies like England and Spain and all the others who make up UEFA are in it with us, then yeah. There’s nothing that makes Nicaragua and El Salvador a rival more than England or France. But it needs to be rigged so that we make the World Cup most years. .

Think about USA in UEFA? The odds of making the World Cup are reduced, but Mexico and Canada go every time! Then for example, as was discussed previously, lets say USA, Mexico and Canada all go to UEFA, I suppose there would be years that none of those 3 make the World Cup and North America is represented by El Salvador and Jamaica. Ridiculous, just so MLS can jump from #12 to #8, and LAFC can lose in the UEFA CL play in round, LOL No Thanks!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bad for who? It would be great for the fans of the top teams. Suck for the fans of the have-nots. It would be atrocious for the owners. Don’t think they can’t figure out that they could go to a pro/rel system, get rid of the salary cap and instantly have some teams that are competitive with some of the teams in the top leagues. They would also make way less, and probably lose money. They didn’t pay huge expansion fees to be forced to either be uncompetitive, or lose a Billion dollars. Did you read Joe’s post?

The Pirates still make a ton of money. Columbus and KC will be fine

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Maybe it wouldn't be bad, maybe it would be better like you say? But I'm an old ancient dinosaur and don't want it to happen, because THE USA IS NOT IN EUROPE. And to be honest, a "world class" MLS where LA, NY or Miami win EVERY FRIGGIN' YEAR- and half the smaller markets fold, doesn't appeal to me, I like the current wide open MLS where Columbus, Ohio can beat NY or LA. I've discussed this with people who live in Europe, including England, who are MLS fans, who like it for the reasons I mention, it's not Bama and Clemson every year, they actually like the wide open unpredictable nature over the quality of play.

Do you have a problem with Pitt playing in the Atlantic Coast Conference since neither Pittsburgh, nor Pennsylvania is on the Atlantic coast?

 

[Pitt79]

The Pirates still make a ton of money. Columbus and KC will be fine

But I like it better that they can surprisingly rise up and beat LA or NY for the title, rather than have a league of Barcelona, Real Madrid and 20 dwarfs.

 

[Pitt79]

Do you have a problem with Pitt playing in the Atlantic Coast Conference since neither Pittsburgh, nor Pennsylvania is on the Atlantic coast?

It is what it is, I'd prefer it if it was an Eastern League with teams like Penn State, WVU, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, UConn and Temple and teams like that.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

But I like it better that they can surprisingly rise up and beat LA or NY for the title, rather than have a league of Barcelona, Real Madrid and 20 dwarfs.

Well, the MLS could put some rules in place to keep teams like Columbus competitive but super teams sell. Like it or not, your Jordan Bulls, Curry Warriors, 90s/2000s Yankees, Man City, Messi Barca.....those teams are good for the league. Hypothetically, if MLS had 4 world-class teams and 26 Fulham-level teams, that would sell very well.

 

[PeetWeet2]

The Pirates still make a ton of money. Columbus and KC will be fine

You won’t get world class soccer teams and revenue sharing. A better chance is for the US to get a team, or teams into either a super league or a established league. Have a 100 billionaire owner who will lose a billion and, poof - world class soccer in the USA. No way does a 32 team league with revenue sharing and a cap have a prayer of having anything close to a typical champions league group stage team.

 

[Pitt79]

Well, the MLS could put some rules in place to keep teams like Columbus competitive but super teams sell. Like it or not, your Jordan Bulls, Curry Warriors, 90s/2000s Yankees, Man City, Messi Barca.....those teams are good for the league. Hypothetically, if MLS had 4 world-class teams and 26 Fulham-level teams, that would sell very well.

I don't want what "sells" I was a Bulls fan when Jordan was getting cut from his high school JV, so I liked that, and I was a fan of the 60s Steelers before the 70s Steelers so I organically rooted for those super teams, other wise I root against them with venom. I'd rather have 26 Fulham's, I love NFL forced parity better. I became a DC United fan because they are local to me and their games are on local TV, they haven't been great lately, but still could be, the way it's set up now, but if they change it so that LA, LA, NY, NY and Miami win every year with EPL QUALITY TEAMS, I'll have little interest.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You won’t get world class soccer teams and revenue sharing. A better chance is for the US to get a team, or teams into either a super league or a established league. Have a 100 billionaire owner who will lose a billion and, poof - world class soccer in the USA. No way does a 32 team league with revenue sharing and a cap have a prayer of having anything close to a typical champions league group stage team.

You couldn't have revenue sharing to the extent of the traditional American pro sports. It would have to be a different system. Somewhere between EPL and MLB.

 

[Pitt79]

You couldn't have revenue sharing to the extent of the traditional American pro sports. It would have to be a different system. Somewhere between EPL and MLB.

That would suck, it would be probably 20 teams and only LA, LA, NY, NY and Miami ever have a chance to win anything, boring as hell, Bama, Clemson, tOSU style BS.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That would suck, it would be probably 20 teams and only LA, LA, NY, NY and Miami ever have a chance to win anything, boring as hell, Bama, Clemson, tOSU style BS.

Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal.

 

[Pitt79]

Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal.

Exactly, I don't want a league like that. The fact that it's not like that is a reason to like MLS, You may not believe it, but I've talked to Europeans, who follow MLS EXACTLY BECAUSE it's more competitive and not top heavy like Euro Leagues. What you're asking for is to make the MLS like the college football playoffs.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What you're asking for is to make the MLS like the college football playoffs.

As opposed to a league who has 2nd tier South Americans taking 90% of starting spots, yep. I want world-class players. I'm not watching a guy who comes off the bench for Peru or Ecuador play for Real Salt Lake.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The Pirates still make a ton of money. Columbus and KC will be fine

Fun fact, in 2022 the Pittsburgh Pirates will receive more money from television contracts than EVERY MLS TEAM COMBINED.

The fact that you think that their situations are even remotely comparable shows exactly how out of touch with reality you are.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You won’t get world class soccer teams and revenue sharing. A better chance is for the US to get a team, or teams into either a super league or a established league. Have a 100 billionaire owner who will lose a billion and, poof - world class soccer in the USA. No way does a 32 team league with revenue sharing and a cap have a prayer of having anything close to a typical champions league group stage team.

SMF thinks that the large majority of the owners of MLS teams are going to willingly sign up for a league where the only way they can compete for championships is to bankrupt their teams. All so the people who own teams in New York and Miami and Los Angeles can lose tons of money trying to compete with the best teams in Europe.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Fun fact, in 2022 the Pittsburgh Pirates will receive more money from television contracts than EVERY MLS TEAM COMBINED.

The fact that you think that their situations are even remotely comparable shows exactly how out of touch with reality you are.

Why are you comparing the TV contracts of the best baseball league in the world with the 20th best soccer league?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

SMF thinks that the large majority of the owners of MLS teams are going to willingly sign up for a league where the only way they can compete for championships is to bankrupt their teams. All so the people who own teams in New York and Miami and Los Angeles can lose tons of money trying to compete with the best teams in Europe.

What if you told the owner of Minnesota or KC that they are going to have a much tougher time winning an MLS title over a coastal super team but their "Fulham team" will make more money from ticket sales, jersey sponsors, and TV revenue?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Why are you comparing the TV contracts of the best baseball league in the world with the 20th best soccer league?

It wasn't me who compared the Pirates to two MLS teams, it was you. I was merely pointing out how absolutely stupid your comparison was. It's good to see that you agree with me that your original point was really, really dumb.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

What if you told the owner of Minnesota or KC that they are going to have a much tougher time winning an MLS title over a coastal super team but their "Fulham team" will make more money from ticket sales, jersey sponsors, and TV revenue?

It's as if you don't understand that "making more money from ticket sales, jersey sponsors, and TV revenue" doesn't actually mean "turning a profit". Sure, those teams' revenues will increase, by a lot. But so will their expenses. If they want to have any chance to compete, by a lot more than what their revenues will increase.

You would rather have a team that brings in $100 million while spending $120 million. The people who have made enough money in their lives to own an MLS team would much rather own a team that brings in $30 million while spending $25 million.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's as if you don't understand that "making more money from ticket sales, jersey sponsors, and TV revenue" doesn't actually mean "turning a profit". Sure, those teams' revenues will increase, by a lot. But so will their expenses. If they want to have any chance to compete, by a lot more than what their revenues will increase.

You would rather have a team that brings in $100 million while spending $120 million. The people who have made enough money in their lives to own an MLS team would much rather own a team that brings in $30 million while spending $25 million.

How about if they make $120 million and spend $110 million? Is that better than making $30 million and spending $25 million?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How about if they make $120 million and spend $110 million? Is that better than making $30 million and spending $25 million?

Yes, for the handful of teams that that will happen they will be better off.

On the other hand, for the large majority of the teams who won't be in that boat, not so much.

Like I said, you think that the large majority of the team owners are going to sign up for a system that condemns them to either never making any money or never actually competing, other than in a fluke season. Oddly enough, the millionaires/billionaires who own the teams don't think like you.

I wonder if there is a reason for that?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, for the handful of teams that that will happen they will be better off.

On the other hand, for the large majority of the teams who won't be in that boat, not so much.

Like I said, you think that the large majority of the team owners are going to sign up for a system that condemns them to either never making any money or never actually competing, other than in a fluke season. Oddly enough, the millionaires/billionaires who own the teams don't think like you.

I wonder if there is a reason for that?

How do you know Minnesota absolutely cannot make more of a profit than they're making now and also finish 5th or 6th in the West and make the playoffs?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How do you know Minnesota absolutely cannot make more of a profit than they're making now and also finish 5th or 6th in the West and make the playoffs?

Two things. Common sense. And the fact that the people who know the business far better than you could ever hope to don't think it's even remotely possible.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

BTW, getting back to the World Cup, Gareth Bale is signing a one year contract to play with LAFC to get himself some games leading up to the World Cup.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Two things. Common sense. And the fact that the people who know the business far better than you could ever hope to don't think it's even remotely possible.

Can you link where you have seen that MLS owners said they cannot make money if the league was a Top 3 league in the world? I would guess not.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Can you link where you have seen that MLS owners said they cannot make money if the league was a Top 3 league in the world? I would guess not.

I don't need to link to some article, I only need to point to a couple decades worth of their business practices.

Which is where the common sense part comes in, and where you get completely lost.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I don't need to link to some article, I only need to point to a couple decades worth of their business practices.

Which is where the common sense part comes in, and where you get completely lost.

Thought so

 

[Pitt79]

As opposed to a league who has 2nd tier South Americans taking 90% of starting spots, yep. I want world-class players. I'm not watching a guy who comes off the bench for Peru or Ecuador play for Real Salt Lake.

I'd rather have a wide open league that is entertaining because you have no idea who will win from year to year, where your team can suck and then make a couple signings and rise up for awhile, where it's not the same 3-4 super rich teams winning every time, I don't care who the players are, I like the uncertainty, that's better than the champion being Barcelona or Real Madrid EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR FOREVER because they can afford to buy up all the world class players you worship. Would you like the NFL better without the draft and the cap where Jerry Jones could buy all the best players in a free market system and the same 3-4 teams win EVRY YEAR FOREVER?

 

[Pitt79]

What if you told the owner of Minnesota or KC that they are going to have a much tougher time winning an MLS title over a coastal super team but their "Fulham team" will make more money from ticket sales, jersey sponsors, and TV revenue?

So the fans in those cities will turn out in bigger numbers after they become un-competitive with no chance for a title?

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Thought so

What, you thought that because it takes an ounce of common sense to understand it that you wouldn't get it?

Yeah, we know.

How about instead you post a link that shows an MLS owner saying that they need to turn the league into a top three in the world league right now so they can all make money like they own the printing press.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

So the fans in those cities will turn out in bigger numbers after they become un-competitive with no chance for a title?

And not just in bigger numbers, but they will be willing to pay a lot more for their tickets too. And they will be a lot more likely to watch the games on television even though their team isn't competitive.

Because reasons and stuff.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What, you thought that because it takes an ounce of common sense to understand it that you wouldn't get it?

Yeah, we know.

How about instead you post a link that shows an MLS owner saying that they need to turn the league into a top three in the world league right now so they can all make money like they own the printing press.

Don Garber has said time and again that MLS wants to be a "league of choice" and one of the best leagues in the world. He is elected by the owners. You cannot find a shred of evidence that Minnesota and KC would veto a move towards being a top league. The Pirates make money. SKC can too.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And not just in bigger numbers, but they will be willing to pay a lot more for their tickets too. And they will be a lot more likely to watch the games on television even though their team isn't competitive.

Because reasons and stuff.

Exactly. Tickets will be more expensive and they'll buy them. They are paying for Hungarian League quality now. They'll pay more for Bundesliga level. The notion that Cincy, SKC, Min, etc will be ghost towns since the coastal teams will have the best teams is absurd.

 

[Pitt79]

Exactly. Tickets will be more expensive and they'll buy them. They are paying for Hungarian League quality now. They'll pay more for Bundesliga level. The notion that Cincy, SKC, Min, etc will be ghost towns since the coastal teams will have the best teams is absurd.

So the fans in say KC, Portland or Columbus, will; be happier being perennial losers with better quality of play but just being the stiffs to fill LA, LA. NY, NY and Miami's schedules every year, rather than be in the hunt for a championship themselves? AND be will to pay more for that experience?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So the fans in say KC, Portland or Columbus, will; be happier being perennial losers with better quality of play but just being the stiffs to fill LA, LA. NY, NY and Miami's schedules every year, rather than be in the hunt for a championship themselves? AND be will to pay more for that experience?

Yes. These people are fans of the sport more than the team. Sure there's some diehard DC United fans like you but most don't have the allegiance that they do towards their maintenance pro or college team. If you told a KC fan, they have 2 choices:

1. Be in a top 3 league in the world meaning world stars in their prime are coming to town and you may be able to sign some yourselves but your team will have trouble with coastal teams

2. Status quo. League of the same quality as Romania or Hungary but all teams on level playing field

90% are picking the world class league. They are soccer fans first. KC, DC, Cincy, Minnesota fans 2nd

 

[Pitt79]

Yes. These people are fans of the sport more than the team. Sure there's some diehard DC United fans like you but most don't have the allegiance that they do towards their maintenance pro or college team. If you told a KC fan, they have 2 choices:

1. Be in a top 3 league in the world meaning world stars in their prime are coming to town and you may be able to sign some yourselves but your team will have trouble with coastal teams

2. Status quo. League of the same quality as Romania or Hungary but all teams on level playing field

90% are picking the world class league. They are soccer fans first. KC, DC, Cincy, Minnesota fans 2nd

Because I'm already a fan of an MLS team, and have interacted with fans of that team, I disagree, they would not agree to have a league like you propose and a lot of these people, way more than me are diehards who care about DC more than "world stars". You're the one obsessed with "world stars", so you think everyone is. What do I care about seeing world stars if there's no rooting interest to keep me seriously engaged or the league is set up so my team have no hope? I don't want to pay to see Messi come visit and see him beat my 5-15-8 team 6-0. A lot of the people who attend MLS games and have season tickets (I'm not one of them, I've been to only one) do so, because they want allegiance to a local team, so they go their wear the jersey have the scarf wave flags and bang drums and want local team success, those people treat it like it's major league, whether you do or not.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Because I'm already a fan of an MLS team, and have interacted with fans of that team, I disagree, they would not agree to have a league like you propose and a lot of these people, way more than me are diehards who care about DC more than "world stars". You're the one obsessed with "world stars", so you think everyone is. What do I care about seeing world stars if there's no rooting interest to keep me seriously engaged or the league is set up so my team have no hope? I don't want to pay to see Messi come visit and see him beat my 5-15-8 team 6-0. A lot of the people who attend MLS games and have season tickets (I'm not one of them, I've been to only one) do so, because they want allegiance to a local team, so they go their wear the jersey have the scarf wave flags and bang drums and want local team success, those people treat it like it's major league, whether you do or not.

You're wrong. American soccer fans would rather have an elite league than a Hungarian league. American soccer fans > MLS fans. For it to be mainstream, they need Americans to watch MLS and currently they do not. Only MLS fans watch games of only their own team.