You never answered my question about whether including year 1 in your 6 was insane. That tells me all I need to know about you.
1/6
- Thread starter BballinsiderfromPitt
- Start date
lol you’re right. Neither do the other 4 we didn’t make the tournament. Actually meeting performance standards doesn’t matter. You got it man!
You gotta stop. This was an NCAA Tournament team that was screwed. It was better than last year's team. So this is 2 successful seasons out of 6 in my eyes. He improved the team from last year to this year. That is a success. Now he has to improve it again. He cant go backward and go 18-15 but even if he did, he gets 2025-26 because its basically like he made back to back NCAA Tournaments.
You don't understand our offensive sets if this is the case. GDG stretches the floor and creates space that Fede never can. Our offense for long stretches was anemic, mostly when Fede was on the floor because everyone can face guard with no threat of a backdoor or alley oop.
It was not an ncaa tournament team. They didn’t make it. Last year had every break go right in the last week to get in. This year didn’t. That’s what happens when you’re a bubble team.
You can’t keep saying this is a tournament team. They didn’t make the tournament. There is no revisionist history, no SMF qualifiers. You’re either in it or you’re not. You can say it was a successful year because they were good and they probably should’ve made it but there is no 2023-2024 season going on the tournament appearance board. YOU look dumb when you keep saying thag
If we give Capel a realistic track, he's not that far off pace. Even disregarding the locker room antics.
Years 1-2: Rebuild
Year 3: Turn the corner
Year 4-5: Contend.
And yes I excluded the COVID year since there was no post-season.
We can look at the NCAA Tourney birth as a barometer. But 1/2 with a Top 4 conference finish is 'on track'.
If the wheels fall off, yes he should be on a short leash. But I'd say as of today we're trending the right direction.
Years 1-2: Rebuild
Year 3: Turn the corner
Year 4-5: Contend.
And yes I excluded the COVID year since there was no post-season.
We can look at the NCAA Tourney birth as a barometer. But 1/2 with a Top 4 conference finish is 'on track'.
If the wheels fall off, yes he should be on a short leash. But I'd say as of today we're trending the right direction.
I wish I was in a profession that held zero accountability while making 3.5 million and a top 25 budget for a half a decade. Sheesh you guys must think Pitt is Carnegie Mellon the way you think our job and program sucks.
Hate to bring him up because they’re just getting in this year, but TCU basketball was deader than dead. 8-54 in the big 12 for 4 years before Dixon got there. NIT chip, NCAA appearance, regress, regress, 3 straight NCAAT appearances.
He improved on an NCAA Tournament team from the year prior. So it was a success. There is no penalty against him for not making it. He did enough.
The last 2 seasons have been successful and it appears we are headed in the right direction. Some of you so-called Pitt fans should look for ways to help the program instead of trying to tear it down.
Interesting comparison, Dixon's first 6 seasons he also had one tournament win and STILL hasn't had a winning record in conference.
Also we're including NIT accolades now? This board has told me the NIT is a joke and for tiny schools the last two days.
Friday night, the offense was anemic at times with GDG in the game. They ran nothing for him in the second half and they really should have. He gave them a nice boost Friday night. Did he even attempt a shot in the second half?
BTW, Did you see GDG attempt to guard Bacot? He was absolutely abused.
Overall game though... Simply have to put somebody better out there.
I am really confused why Capel has like basically 100% support right now….
ANY post at all that’s at all even slightly critical is met with harsh opposition.
It’s honestly crazy. The Stallings and early Capel years just set the bar so low that these two bubble years in a row just have people so excited. Which is fine.
But the standard is making the tourney.
I mean Pat Narduzzi quite literally won the ACC in football and finished the next year in the Top 25 and people were still bashing him all over the place.
But Capel is above criticism after an NIT season?
ANY post at all that’s at all even slightly critical is met with harsh opposition.
It’s honestly crazy. The Stallings and early Capel years just set the bar so low that these two bubble years in a row just have people so excited. Which is fine.
But the standard is making the tourney.
I mean Pat Narduzzi quite literally won the ACC in football and finished the next year in the Top 25 and people were still bashing him all over the place.
But Capel is above criticism after an NIT season?
I can’t stand Duzz but Pitt football is a much tougher job than Pitt basketball
Your post is spot on. It seems insane.
The NIT chip was pre-portal. Meant something more then and sprung them to a NCAAT.
The goal is to make NCAAT, not have a winning conference record.
It wasn’t a perfect example, but it shows that being consistent can get you to a place where you’re in the tourney 3/5 years.
Of course this was all predicated on whether or not they make it next year, which would render it moot. But because we made it one time, he has a lifetime contract in 90 percent of the board’s eyes
My issue is that by just running it back with Capel, you’re settling for this. Every year I see programs hire coaches and they immediately elevate the program, yet we have to accept this incremental growth because he’s hit on a few transfers and we love the two young guards that we have?
To me, we’re settling for above average. I like Capel personally and do think he’s settled into the job the last few years after some very real concern, but I just can’t accept that we have to just accept this as a new normal.
I have very clear goals for next year: Play 2-3 high end non-conference games that engage the fanbase and end the perception that we don’t challenge ourselves. Keep the two guards and surround them with shooting and a veteran big so that Kante can ease himself into the rotation. Compete at the top of the league, get to the tournament, and at least appear to be a 2nd weekend team.
You can justifiably talk about the state of the program when he got here and the adjustment of the staff/University to the portal and NIL world, but 7 years is beyond enough time to get this program beyond a constant state of flux.
To me, we’re settling for above average. I like Capel personally and do think he’s settled into the job the last few years after some very real concern, but I just can’t accept that we have to just accept this as a new normal.
I have very clear goals for next year: Play 2-3 high end non-conference games that engage the fanbase and end the perception that we don’t challenge ourselves. Keep the two guards and surround them with shooting and a veteran big so that Kante can ease himself into the rotation. Compete at the top of the league, get to the tournament, and at least appear to be a 2nd weekend team.
You can justifiably talk about the state of the program when he got here and the adjustment of the staff/University to the portal and NIL world, but 7 years is beyond enough time to get this program beyond a constant state of flux.
TJ Ohtzlberger(sp?) inherited a 2-22 team 2 years ago. They’re a 2 seed this year after losing to us last year as a 6.
I'm not going to argue because BBInsider just seems like he is fishing and wanting to yell to yell, but I"m struggling with why everyone has to have the exact same trajectory.
I mean saying 1/6 or whatever w/o context is dumb. Say Capel goes 3/12 or something, but in there is a Final Four and a National Championship, but every other year outside of his first 4 they are a bubble team and competitive. DO you fire him? I mean he's not following the same path as ISU. Or what if ISU goes from 2-22, to a 2 seed, and then misses the tourney the next 5 years.
Every team, every program has a different path. Trying to shoehorn what is success without context is dumb IMO. And that's just my opinion.
I mean saying 1/6 or whatever w/o context is dumb. Say Capel goes 3/12 or something, but in there is a Final Four and a National Championship, but every other year outside of his first 4 they are a bubble team and competitive. DO you fire him? I mean he's not following the same path as ISU. Or what if ISU goes from 2-22, to a 2 seed, and then misses the tourney the next 5 years.
Every team, every program has a different path. Trying to shoehorn what is success without context is dumb IMO. And that's just my opinion.
Because the team had a better resume than last year and was screwed so we see this team as an NCAAT team even though they didnt make it. Also, the program is trending up, not down like Narduzzi.
And not that he gets a complete pass but the Xavier Johnson era was a failure due to low character players. Once we got rid of those guys, we had 1 bad year with the Femi crew but have had 2 good seasons in a row. So maybe THIS is what Capel is capable of and he was just unlucky that he took Johnson/McGowens/Toney after a shotgun recruitment without really knowing them.
Obviously in your situation you wouldn’t fire him. That’s the point… if they don’t go next year most on here don’t even want to evaluate the ceiling of the program under Capel which is insane
Last year’s team was 14-6 in conference. Blasted NW OOC on the road. Beat UVA. Beat F4 Miami and swept Cuse.
This year’s team. Zero good OOC wins. 12-8 conference record. Won at UVA (who everyone here says sucks) Swept AQ NC states. Beat 3/5 @ Duke.
Last year’s team’s resume is better. Not particularly close. Now if you wanna get into the stupid analytics have at it. I ain’t gonna pay attention to it though.
1 more big OOC win. Win over a F4 team. 2 mores wins in conference. UVA was better last year
And for the 10th time, last year’s team was a bubble team that everything broke right. This year’s team was the opposite. Guess what’s gonna keep happening if you live on the bubble. Sometimes it will go your way, sometimes it won’t.
It’s not that everyone has to have the same trajectory but to accept 1 tournament in six years as some type of appreciable progress is misguided.
Citing others isn’t to say we have to be exactly at point A, B, etc. but it’s proof that success doesn’t have to be a decade-long pursuit. Last year was a decided step forward, but then this year was at best a lateral step if not a small step backwards. This program does not have to settle
Yep. If you are a bubble team year in and year out, you should make it about half the time. I'd be happy going to the tournament roughly every other year. The hope is a few of those years come with a higher seed, and a chance for a deep run. That is the progression I would like to see. Perhaps that comes next year depending on who we retain and if Capel can find a 5 in the portal or have Papa work out. I think Capel has proven he can get a team to play together and has learned to recruit higher character individuals who are coachable and team 1st players. I understand the thread and questioning Capel's tenure here. I must say I like the trend the program has shown and should the trend continue for the next few, I would be fine extending him.
It‘s undeniable that the program is headed in the right direction , there’s no need to say the obvious that he took over the worst D1 program in the country and took on what turned out to be some questionable character guys . The last two yrs have been have been a rejuvenation of the program , fans are returning to the Pete to watch winning exciting Bb played by high character kids . If JC has enough NIL money to compete Pitt Bb has its coach for a long time and is in good hands .
If it's a March blank because they couldn't keep Bub, Lowe and Ish then I'd say it's not really on Capel at that point. I'd also say his seat won't be hot because they don't care. And I'm a guy that was wondering if they could ditch him and his contract a couple months ago.
They (Pitt and A412) need to do whatever they can to keep the backcourt together and add a big, Bub and the NBA notwithstanding.
Let's be clear. He doesn't meet YOUR standards. Real insiders seem to disagree.
Not a single person has said he shouldn't be evaluated. NOT A SINGLE ONE.
The main issue, at least with me, are that you stated that we should fire him if he doesn't make the tourney next year. That goes far beyond "evaluating".
The second issue, as I've mentioned several times, is your seeming ignorance of the situation he inherited by including the early years in your 1/6. It is absolutely stupid to do that.
I’m quite sure that taking over a 2-22 team losing every player or keeping every player doesn’t matter. They were a 6 seed the next year and a 2 seed the following year. Who cares if they lost players that were 2-22? That doesn’t even make sense
This is starting to get fun.
In Ohtzlberger's first year, 4 of the top 5 players in minutes played were on the roster from the 2-22 team. So there was obviously talent on that team. Capel had 1 player from his carryover roster that played in the top 5.
Capel was hired late in the recruiting season and had to cobble together a class from scratch. He managed to get a group with talent but couldn't co-exist with each other. That impacted the team for 2 years. Ohtzlberger had previously been with ISU and was a key recruiter when there.
I don't think this is the point you were trying to make, but all that means is Iowa State made a great coaching hire that immediately paid dividends. Thanks for making MY point.
You really are dumb. I keep talking about the irrelevance of years 1-3 in your inane standard. That was the point.
But you keep pointing to the exception rather than the rule. How many coaching hires have failed compared tom ISU's? The correct answer is almost 100%. Pointing to the exception doesn't prove anything.
You surely haven't proven to have any. You've actually shown the opposite with your posts.
Pitino flipped his roster and was bubble. Same as Pitt. Will Wade. Tournament. TJ, Tournament. Texas Tech. Utah State. Western Kentucky. St. Peters (Year 2). Texas. Mississippi State.
All exceptions, not the rule, I guess. It's obviously not 100 percent but you're acting like it's a lottery.
You are comparing Capel to elite coaches. Capel isnt an elite coach. He's a good coach. You dont put a good coach on a hot seat to go hire a lottery ticket in the hopes the guy is an elite coach. You want to can Capel after next season and hire Otzelberger or Nate Oats? Sure, do it. But you arent going to get them.
You’re putting Grant McCasland, Danny Sprinkle and Rodney terry as elite coaches? Weird
To play Devil's advocate, Capel is paid like an elite coach.
Should we have had better results sooner? Sure, but can entire seasons be lost because of love triangles and discord? Sure look at UNC last year or Arkansas this year.
Should we have had better results sooner? Sure, but can entire seasons be lost because of love triangles and discord? Sure look at UNC last year or Arkansas this year.
