1/6

[Vader_Storm]

To play Devil's advocate, Capel is paid like an elite coach.

Should we have had better results sooner? Sure, but can entire seasons be lost because of love triangles and discord? Sure look at UNC last year or Arkansas this year.

Its all about the future trajectory of the program.

We won 22 games, finished 4th in the ACC, 38th in the efficiency metrics, and 15th in the country in the last 10 games in the efficiency metrics.


Unlike last years team that was loaded with seniors and 5th year seniors, we did it with a bunch of freshmen and underclassmen and 1 senior, Hinson. 3 of our teams top 5 scorers this year were underclassmen. That is building the program from the ground up which is the way I said it should be done, not with 1 year rental players not knowing how good the chemistry is going to be by constantly flipping the entire roster over year after year.

We have building blocks in place right now and a stud future point guard.

We already know 1 thing going into next year. This team and the players on it have outstanding chemistry. And they hang out with one another on and off the court. And they like and respect one another. This is the total opposite of Xavier Johnson's teams where players were fighting, getting thrown out of practive, benched for bad attitudes, etc..

Brandin Cummings isnt even at Pitt yet and he talks to the guards on this team almost daily and has hung out with them.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

How many of these schools would’ve kicked Dior out of school in Sept ?

Pitt has never been a win at cost school and that does play into expectations.

 

[NCPitt]

Pitino flipped his roster and was bubble. Same as Pitt. Will Wade. Tournament. TJ, Tournament. Texas Tech. Utah State. Western Kentucky. St. Peters (Year 2). Texas. Mississippi State.

All exceptions, not the rule, I guess. It's obviously not 100 percent but you're acting like it's a lottery.

LOL. Not even close.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

LOL. Not even close.

I just gave you a list of guys who did it. All good man, you got it. None of those guys matter.

 

[Vader_Storm]

I just gave you a list of guys who did it. All good man, you got it. None of those guys matter.

Here's a thought for you.

Instead of hijacking every thread pining for other coaches or putting our own players down, why not list some players in the transfer portal or headed into the transfer portal that Pitt should go after.


Its portal season and I have not seen you mention a single name Pitt should be after. Try something different on here.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Here's a thought for you.

Instead of hijacking every thread pining for other coaches or putting our own players down, why not list some players in the transfer portal or headed into the transfer portal that Pitt should go after.


Its portal season and I have not seen you mention a single name Pitt should be after. Try something different on here.

1) I started this thread so I didn't "hijack" it.
2) Do you think it matters one bit what players you mention on this board we could pursue? I find the transfer portal nauseating to follow. It isn't interesting at all. Actually getting a player is interesting to discuss. The rest is masturbation.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

To play Devil's advocate, Capel is paid like an elite coach.

Should we have had better results sooner? Sure, but can entire seasons be lost because of love triangles and discord? Sure look at UNC last year or Arkansas this year.

They were flailing badly in trying to attract a coach after the JD and KS debacle . No established HC wanted anything to do with this program and they had to pay up for anyone to be interested , that’s how they got JC who had a pretty cushy job at Duke .

Without buying the players ( which wasn’t allowed then ) what elite player would want to come to Pitt in his first few yrs . How he ever got X , Trey and Toney in his first class was amazing . Unfortunately they weren’t team players . Even if there was some underhanded activity there Pitt doesn’t go all in for being a winning program . ( Dior being bounced shows that )

 

[Vader_Storm]

1) I started this thread so I didn't "hijack" it.
2) Do you think it matters one bit what players you mention on this board we could pursue? I find the transfer portal nauseating to follow. It isn't interesting at all. Actually getting a player is interesting to discuss. The rest is masturbation.

Ok, then Ill take it a step further.

List some 2025 high school basketball players the staff should go after since you dont like the portal. The EYBL is starting soon enough and this board has seen me talk about plenty of 2025 guys so far.

Who do you like in the 2025 class that Pitt is recruiting or should go after? And Meleek Thomas doesnt count.

 

[NCPitt]

I just gave you a list of guys who did it. All good man, you got it. None of those guys matter.

Seriously, you are comparing a P6 conference with Utah State, Western Kentucky, and St. Peters?

Texas Tech won 16 games last year and 27 the year before. Texas won 20 games, 2 fewer than Pitt. They won 29 games last year. MSU won 21 games, 1 fewer than Pitt. They won 18 games the year before the coaching change.

None of the schools you listed come even close to where Pitt was when Capel was hired. Pitt was the dead spot in college BB at the time, something you absolutely refuse to acknowledge.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Seriously, you are comparing a P6 conference with Utah State, Western Kentucky, and St. Peters?

Texas Tech won 16 games last year and 27 the year before. Texas won 20 games, 2 fewer than Pitt. They won 29 games last year. MSU won 21 games, 1 fewer than Pitt. They won 18 games the year before the coaching change.

None of the schools you listed come even close to where Pitt was when Capel was hired. Pitt was the dead spot in college BB at the time, something you absolutely refuse to acknowledge.

You got it man. Capel doesn't hate Keith either. You win (not really, just ignoring you since you were proven wrong on both)

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Ok, then Ill take it a step further.

List some 2025 high school basketball players the staff should go after since you dont like the portal. The EYBL is starting soon enough and this board has seen me talk about plenty of 2025 guys so far.

Who do you like in the 2025 class that Pitt is recruiting or should go after? And Meleek Thomas doesnt count.

Simply listing names of recruits (portal or otherwise) has lost any luster. Wake me up when they sign.

 

[NCPitt]

You got it man. Capel doesn't hate Keith either. You win (not really, just ignoring you since you were proven wrong on both)

"Proven"? Only in your clown world mind.

 

[NCPitt]

Simply listing names of recruits (portal or otherwise) has lost any luster. Wake me up when they sign.

It is obvious you would rather discuss firing Capel than other topic.

 

[New York Panther]

no not that 1/6. One first four appearance in 6 years. Is next year the make or break year for this staff? If we go 1 FF/7 and don’t move on, what are we doing here?

This is a puzzling question since it appears that Capel has finally righted the ship. After two really good (at least in my opinion) seasons, next year is clearly not the make or break year.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

This is a puzzling question since it appears that Capel has finally righted the ship. After two really good (at least in my opinion) seasons, next year is clearly not the make or break year.

The reason why is because next year he will push for an extension whether they do well or don’t. He will have 2 years left on his deal. If they make the tournament it’s an automatic extension. If they’re close, it’s probably an extension. If they are not, then that is where you evaluate your options. Not sure why people have been getting bent out of shape about this.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

This is a puzzling question since it appears that Capel has finally righted the ship. After two really good (at least in my opinion) seasons, next year is clearly not the make or break year.

It’s agenda driven. And we all see through it. No other reason why the thread was posted within hours of the committees announcement. I wondered who the first irrational hater to bring up the non tourney bid and combine it to the body of work that includes the years after our self inflected death penalty would be , and I didn’t think it would be him because we mostly agree on everything else. And then doubling down and mentioning such things as Dixon taking over a fairly talented team and taking them to the NIT is evidence of such agenda.

Look, bbinsider has a valid point. We live in a meritocracy, as we should. So he has the right philosophy here. There shouldn’t be participation trophy’s awarded for seasons where benchmarks weren’t met. I’m with him in this regard. I actually have his view when it comes to life and when it comes to things like the Steelers. But pro football and the Steelers is a much different situation. Pitt is a much different situation. And college hoops has become a lot more complex during Capel’s tenure. It’s all apples and oranges.

Some coaches have elected to leave/stay away from the game due to the complexity of todays game and yet Coach Capel has embraced, adapted and pivoted in a way that seems to have things headed in the right direction. But in the middle of it all some people are ready to talk about firing the staff. It’s baffling. But me thinks it’s personal for whatever reason.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

It’s agenda driven. And we all see through it. No other reason why the thread was posted within hours of the committees announcement. I wondered who the first irrational hater to bring up the non tourney bid and combine it to the body of work that includes the years after our self inflected death penalty would be , and I didn’t think it would be him because we mostly agree on everything else. And then doubling down and mentioning such things as Dixon taking over a fairly talented team and taking them to the NIT is evidence of such agenda.

Look, bbinsider has a valid point. We live in a meritocracy, as we should. So he has the right philosophy here. There shouldn’t be participation trophy’s awarded for seasons where benchmarks weren’t met. I’m with him in this regard. I actually have his view when it comes to life and when it comes to things like the Steelers. But pro football and the Steelers is a much different situation. Pitt is a much different situation. And college hoops has become a lot more complex during Capel’s tenure. It’s all apples and oranges.

Some coaches have elected to leave/stay away from the game due to the complexity of todays game and yet Coach Capel has embraced, adapted and pivoted in a way that seems to have things headed in the right direction. But in the middle of it all some people are ready to talk about firing the staff. It’s baffling. But me thinks it’s personal for whatever reason.

I couldn’t care less who the coach is. And I agree with you about the Steelers. I think Tomlin has lost his message and we’ll never do anything until he’s gone.

But the reasoning is clear as day. Next year is make or break year for this reason: extension purposes. If the bottom falls out, you have to evaluate him for the ceiling of the program. If they’re close, you make a decision one way or the other and he may take a soft landing. If you’re in, he makes it easy. He’s not gonna go into 2025-2026 with 2 years left on his deal. That would be insane on his end

 

[NCPitt]

The reason why is because next year he will push for an extension whether they do well or don’t. He will have 2 years left on his deal. If they make the tournament it’s an automatic extension. If they’re close, it’s probably an extension. If they are not, then that is where you evaluate your options. Not sure why people have been getting bent out of shape about this.

Again, no one is getting bent out of shape about evaluating him. Here is what people are challenging:

no not that 1/6. One first four appearance in 6 years. Is next year the make or break year for this staff? If we go 1 FF/7 and don’t move on, what are we doing here?

You didn't initially call for an evaluation. You called for him to be fired.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You’re putting Grant McCasland, Danny Sprinkle and Rodney terry as elite coaches? Weird

Terry stinks but inherited talent. Wont last there.

Sprinkle is gaming in the MWC. Doesnt count.

McCasland gets credit for showing up in the B12 and winning a few home games.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I couldn’t care less who the coach is. And I agree with you about the Steelers. I think Tomlin has lost his message and we’ll never do anything until he’s gone.

But the reasoning is clear as day. Next year is make or break year for this reason: extension purposes. If the bottom falls out, you have to evaluate him for the ceiling of the program. If they’re close, you make a decision one way or the other and he may take a soft landing. If you’re in, he makes it easy. He’s not gonna go into 2025-2026 with 2 years left on his deal. That would be insane on his end

Well, yea. NCAAT = extension. No NCAAT = no extension. Then if no NCAAT in 2025-26, you decide whether to extend, fire, or let him coach out his last year to see what happens.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Well, yea. NCAAT = extension. No NCAAT = no extension. Then if no NCAAT in 2025-26, you decide whether to extend, fire, or let him coach out his last year to see what happens.

He’s not going into 2025/26 without an extension for obviously. He’ll look for a soft landing. Shocked he’s not already

 

[upj87]

20-win, bubble seasons are OK in phases. No program in the P5 should sit there more than 2-3 years maximum if the University is dedicated to the sport and a program is rebounding .

My worry, as it has been with Football in past years, is that the University invests at a "bubble" level. All the while, we as fans, expect excellent/elite level. Complete divergence on reality/expectations.

"invest" is an ambiguous term often used by politicians to say nothing really...specify, if you can, what University based investments you are talking about.

 

[LGP1989]

"invest" is an ambiguous term often used by politicians to say nothing really...specify, if you can, what University based investments you are talking about.

Would you consider our facilities, advertising footprint, and basketball fundraising above a bubble level?

 

[Pittisit4me]

I couldn’t care less who the coach is. And I agree with you about the Steelers. I think Tomlin has lost his message and we’ll never do anything until he’s gone.

But the reasoning is clear as day. Next year is make or break year for this reason: extension purposes. If the bottom falls out, you have to evaluate him for the ceiling of the program. If they’re close, you make a decision one way or the other and he may take a soft landing. If you’re in, he makes it easy. He’s not gonna go into 2025-2026 with 2 years left on his deal. That would be insane on his end

I would say that overall you still have a negative view of Capel. I know you didn't say the bottom was going to fall out,but, after the last two seasons, what would even give you the idea that is even a possibility?? I get that it could happen if we lose our players, but, it just seems strange you would go there considering what we are hoping to have back as well as the trajectory the program has taken on.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I would say that overall you still have a negative view of Capel. I know you didn't say the bottom was going to fall out,but, after the last two seasons, what would even give you the idea that is even a possibility?? I get that it could happen if we lose our players, but, it just seems strange you would go there considering what we are hoping to have back as well as the trajectory the program has taken on.

No Hinson, no bub, probably lose one of leggett or Lowe? Obviously could take a giant step back. Or he could do a great job replacing all of those guys

 

[TD_6082]

Last year’s team was 14-6 in conference. Blasted NW OOC on the road. Beat UVA. Beat F4 Miami and swept Cuse.

This year’s team. Zero good OOC wins. 12-8 conference record. Won at UVA (who everyone here says sucks) Swept AQ NC states. Beat 3/5 @ Duke.

Last year’s team’s resume is better. Not particularly close. Now if you wanna get into the stupid analytics have at it. I ain’t gonna pay attention to it though.

1 more big OOC win. Win over a F4 team. 2 mores wins in conference. UVA was better last year

And for the 10th time, last year’s team was a bubble team that everything broke right. This year’s team was the opposite. Guess what’s gonna keep happening if you live on the bubble. Sometimes it will go your way, sometimes it won’t.

This is spot on.

And for the UVA haters, don't worry. Their season will end in tears, and probably sooner rather than later.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

TJ Ohtzlberger(sp?) inherited a 2-22 team 2 years ago. They’re a 2 seed this year after losing to us last year as a 6.

Portal/NIL. Capel didn’t have that when he started. Not that I disagree with having higher expectations on the program moving forward.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Or what if ISU goes from 2-22, to a 2 seed, and then misses the tourney the next 5 years.

If Iowa State misses the tournament the next five years they'll have a new coach. And it might not take until year five to get him.

And it won't even matter if they are on the bubble and just miss out all five years. They'll have a new coach.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

If Iowa State misses the tournament the next five years they'll have a new coach. And it might not take until year five to get him.

And it won't even matter if they are on the bubble and just miss out all five years. They'll have a new coach.

Amazing how so few understand this is the new reality

 

[NCPitt]

If Iowa State misses the tournament the next five years they'll have a new coach. And it might not take until year five to get him.

And it won't even matter if they are on the bubble and just miss out all five years. They'll have a new coach.

True. But ISU is starting from a different place than Pitt was/is.

 

[Parkview57]

I like Capel personally and do think he’s settled into the job the last few years after some very real concern, but I just can’t accept that we have to just accept this as a new normal.

I am completely opposite of you. I am not a fan of Capel's persona. But, he is making progress, the team is on an upward trajectory, he seems to be able to thrive in the chaos of the portal world. This young team is as good as or better than 90% in the tourney. After all this "new normal" may just be a stepping stone, and there is only one more step needed, unless you are aiming /believing Pitt can be up with the blue bloods, which is not feasible. But there is no reason to believe he/Pitt is headed backwards anytime soon. So I kinda think Pitt is close.

 

[Pittisit4me]

No Hinson, no bub, probably lose one of leggett or Lowe? Obviously could take a giant step back. Or he could do a great job replacing all of those guys

Your not painting a pretty picture. I sure hope that out of Bub, Leggett, and Lowe, we have at least two of the 3 come back. Only having one come back could spark a downturn. I guess we will see.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

True. But ISU is starting from a different place than Pitt was/is.

Correct. Capel started from 0-18 in conference and 8-24 overall. Iowa State started from 0-18 in conference and 2-22 overall.

Those are way, way different than each other.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If Iowa State misses the tournament the next five years they'll have a new coach. And it might not take until year five to get him.

And it won't even matter if they are on the bubble and just miss out all five years. They'll have a new coach.

That would show a clear regression. Capel's teams improved from 22 to 23 and from 23 to 24. Next year could be the 3rd improvement in a row.

 

[TD_6082]

That would show a clear regression. Capel's teams improved from 22 to 23 and from 23 to 24. Next year could be the 3rd improvement in a row.

Last year's team was better. They had better wins.

 

[NCPitt]

Correct. Capel started from 0-18 in conference and 8-24 overall. Iowa State started from 0-18 in conference and 2-22 overall.

Those are way, way different than each other.

As I already explained, ISU had 4 players with top-5 minutes returning with the new coach. Pitt had 1. Also, ISU had only 1 bad year and it happened the Covid year. Pitt was on a string of bad years and the national reputation (and ability to get new players) of Pitt was that it was dead program. How you clowns don't recognize that is beyond me.

Records alone don't tell the story.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

As I already explained, ISU had 4 players with top-5 minutes returning with the new coach. Pitt had 1. Also, ISU had only 1 bad year and it happened the Covid year. Pitt was on a string of bad years and the national reputation (and ability to get new players) of Pitt was that it was dead program. How you clowns don't recognize that is beyond me.

Records alone don't tell the story.

1) Pitt had 2 bad years, not a string
2) WHY do you think bringing back players that went 2-22 and instantly being a 6 seed is somehow a KNOCK AGAINST the coach? This is one of the weirder arguments I've seen.

 

[NCPitt]

1) Pitt had 2 bad years, not a string
2) WHY do you think bringing back players that went 2-22 and instantly being a 6 seed is somehow a KNOCK AGAINST the coach? This is one of the weirder arguments I've seen.

I've never said it was knock against their coach. Why do you constantly make crap up?

I was comparing his situation to Capel's and Capel's was facing a far worse rebuild than ISU was.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I've never said it was knock against their coach. Why do you constantly make crap up?

I was comparing his situation to Capel's and Capel's was facing a far worse rebuild than ISU was.

Based on nothing but an opinion. Those kids weren't good before he got there.

 

[NCPitt]

Based on nothing but an opinion. Those kids weren't good before he got there.

LOL. This "opinion" proves your lack of knowledge yet again.